Dyson's cavalier with the rules, reports internet forum

[MontysMerkin]

First topic message reminder :

Renowned and incredibly important and knowledgeable and self proclaimed golf legend, Mr Monty Merkin proclaimed Simon Dyson to be a cheating Kumquat today after the blond haired Muppet blatently cheated while playing some golf. Mr Merkin is thought to be driven to the point of suicide by the fact that such a blonde haired chap could stoop so low.

"I think its a Frak disgrace and if see that blonde Muppet I will boot the arsehat right in the danglies." Mr Merkin was overheard to exclaim to his posse of beautiful hangers on.

[dynamark]

Just watched the dyson thing on youtube after a number of adverts for bagless vacuum cleaners and it was well outside the rules no wonder he was pulled up and will no doubt have to watch his step.
We kicked a fella out of the county alliance recently.The actual incident was where after looking for a while he suddenly 'found'his ball seconds later the real ball was found

[Davie]

I see Dyson is teeing up in the saffer open this week - and after one round is tied for a top ten spot

Does that mean he has been exonerated by the disciplinary panel .. or just that his case hasn't been heard yet?

[kwinigolfer]

Dyson's case has yet to be heard - perhaps waiting for Thomas Bjorn to return from the World Cup?

[JAS]

Ridiculous.
Only thing is: If four of his fellow pros were "outraged", then perhaps there's some "previous" that's not in the public domain.
But, as things stand, he's already been dq'd from a contending position and is very possibly going to miss out on Dubai.

Had an interesting conversation this week with the mate of a guy who is a good mate of a current ET player and who has caddied for him in a group containing Dyson a few years ago. Said caddy noticed Dyson touching the sand on the takeaway of a bunker shot, he informed his player. The next bunker he went in the same thing happened and the ET player had to call him on it.
It does make you wonder the cumulative effects of all the undetected minor misdemeanours that may have happened.

I also remember a few years ago on the old BBC site taking a bit of flak from a Dyson fan, I couldn't work out why the guy was needlessly being such a jerk, but knowing what I know now, the guy probably knew of the incident then, looked at where I was based, assumed I was a supporter of the ET player from my adopted home town and unloaded!!

[pedro]

I also remember a few years ago on the old BBC site taking a bit of flak from a Dyson fan, I couldn't work out why the guy was needlessly being such a jerk, but knowing what I know now, the guy probably knew of the incident then, looked at where I was based, assumed I was a supporter of the ET player from my adopted home town and unloaded!!

JAS, maybe it was the man himself - just being a bit cavalier with fellow posters as well...

[raycastleunited]

I also remember a few years ago on the old BBC site taking a bit of flak from a Dyson fan, I couldn't work out why the guy was needlessly being such a jerk, but knowing what I know now, the guy probably knew of the incident then, looked at where I was based, assumed I was a supporter of the ET player from my adopted home town and unloaded!!

We know where you live, we know where you play golf. If you step out of line again our associates will pay you a visit and get to work on you with a pitch mark repairer and a trolley battery.

You will understand the true meaning of grounding your club in a hazard.

 

[kwinigolfer]

Terry's nephew fined 30K and given a 2-month ban which has been suspended for 18 months.
Given he's effectively lost a month, lost potential R2D income and bonus, I'd say this is just a shade more than a slap on the wrist.
If there really was significant previous, one would have thought these sanctions would be more severe.
As it is, he writes a cheque for 30K and is good to go.

Hope this really is the end of it and the end of any "cavalier" regard for the rules. If not, he'll presumably get "life".

[Davie]

That is such a confusing verdict. They obviously saw it as guilty so the ban shouldn't have been suspended

If they found it was just a mistake and a momentary lapse then he should have had no further punishment. If not just a lapse and no previous he should have had a healthy ban. How long did Saltman get?

They have taken a coward's way out. He's either a cheat or he's not

[navyblueshorts]

This is pathetic - what on Earth are they doing? He was challenged over what he did, he accepted it straight away (as anyone that made a genuine mistake might be expected to do), he was DQ'd. End of story.

What they appear to be saying is that he deliberately did what he did and they don't believe him when he says it was unconscious and therefore an accident. To me it suggests they're calling him a cheat. In lieu of conclusive evidence, if I were him I'd definitely appeal this.

[golfermartin]

Navy

Have you viewed the footage of what he did? No professional golfer should unconsciously do what he did. All golfers know that the only thing you can repair on your putting line is a ball mark. The action looked deliberate to me. If it was an unconscious act, it suggests that it is something he does habitually, but of course there is no proof of that.

[kwinigolfer]

Seems to me they're giving him considerable benefit of the doubt and he's effectively got a life sentence, suspended for life, as it were.

[McLaren]

Davie

I agree, I guess the tour are happy to punish him with the stigma of being a cheater. Which based on the most recent incident he most clearly isn't.

JAS claims he knew someone on tour who relayed info to the effect that dyson has been at it for years. All very well be surely the tour operate on a system of evidence and not gossip? Without the gossip would it have gone further than a DQ at the time?

[robopz]

All along I kind of thought Dyson was getting "jobbed" through this whole debacle... BUT.... reading the portion quoted below from the committee, I'm not so sure any more.

If the committee really believes what they said... "Mr. Dyson’s action in touching the line of his putt was a deliberate one; that act was committed by him in the knowledge of the Rule forbidding such an act; and his purpose in so acting was to improve his position on the green by pressing down a spike mark."... then IMO they are handling this wrong.

There should be NO tolerance in cases when it's established the cheating was intentional. He should be suspended for an appropriate period NOW... THEN he should be given another 18 months probation, and if there's another violation in that period there should be an even longer suspension.

[McLaren]

Robo

That is what a few posters above have said, it is clear the tour did think he was guilty, otherwise why any sanctions at all?

But for some reason have given out a lenient sentence, compared to Saltman for example.

So when the tour say;

"Mr. Dyson’s action in touching the line of his putt was a deliberate one; that act was committed by him in the knowledge of the Rule forbidding such an act; and his purpose in so acting was to improve his position on the green by pressing down a spike mark."

I am sure they believe that. But based on what evidence?

[kwinigolfer]

robo,
If this were a PGA Tour offence, the hearing and sentence would be confidential.

Which process do you prefer?

Because, frankly, we don't know whether a PGA Tour player has been in the dock for such an offence, whether similar, more serious or even more trivial.

[robopz]

robo,
If this were a PGA Tour offence, the hearing and sentence would be confidential.

Which process do you prefer?

Because, frankly, we don't know whether a PGA Tour player has been in the dock for such an offence, whether similar, more serious or even more trivial.

IMO penalties or sanctions against players for anything having to do with the rules of golf or "serious" breaches of etiquette should be made public... regardless if they result in suspension or not.  But I have NO problem with those processes that lead up to a "guilt" or "innocence" decision remaining private. If the accusation of the potential "cheat" had become publicly known... then I think the determination should be made public either way... but if it never hit "the public", I have no problem with "no determined guilt" situations being kept private.

But to be clear... I'm not talking about the occasional explicatives or club slam that result in contributions to Timmy's cookie jar... I have no problem with those "minors" being kept between the Tour and the player....  that is UNTIL they mount to a point where they result in a suspension.  IMO suspensions for ANY reason should be made public.

I also believe the PGA tour has it right on the anti-doping front.   ALL violations that result in a sanction of a PED violation are supposed to be made public. I hope that's happening and believe it probably is.  But those that involve "drugs of abuse", that are not considered PED's... (pot for instance) I consider more of "treatment" issue and I have no problem with those remaining private, as they can be now.   That is until they get to a point they elevate to the level of suspension, then I think those too should be public.

[kwinigolfer]

Good stuff robo,
I don't have an axe to grind either way, clearly each system has its pluses and minuses.
Certainly agree that any suspensions or, in this case, suspended suspensions (like that!) should be made public.

And: Lots of ways of looking at the Tour's drug policy; I thought that Matt Every got ridiculed unnecessarily when a simple forthright explanation would have served him better - not aware of any sanctions to Garrigus and his pot-in-the-portaloos-on-the-Nationwide boasts. Perhaps he had his collar felt but all we're left with is that he's an idiot.

This is all part of what makes the situation with Vijay and his attorneys intriguing. Still not exactly clear what their goal is, but you can be sure there's more to it than meets the press.

[McLaren]

This is all part of what makes the situation with Vijay and his attorneys intriguing. Still not exactly clear what their goal is, but you can be sure there's more to it than meets the press.

Really you aren't sure?

Seems clear to me they are hoping one of Tiger's absences from the game were acually down-times to let the PED's get through the system.

Well maybe not.  But it seems a simple strategy of bring the tours drug policy into doubt, in terms of consistent handling of cases, so that in court it is easy to argue the PGAT did not give VJ the same courtesies afforded to other players.  Game over, and VJ gets a tidy pay off.  Which he then donates to the Annika sorrenstam foundation.

[robopz]

This is all part of what makes the situation with Vijay and his attorneys intriguing. Still not exactly clear what their goal is, but you can be sure there's more to it than meets the press.

You're right in that we don't know... but from an outsider looking in but knowing the anti-doping policy pretty well... it appears to me Vijay is on a fishing expedition.

[navyblueshorts]

This is all part of what makes the situation with Vijay and his attorneys intriguing. Still not exactly clear what their goal is, but you can be sure there's more to it than meets the press.

Really you aren't sure?

Seems clear to me they are hoping one of Tiger's absences from the game were acually down-times to let the PED's get through the system.

Well maybe not.  But it seems a simple strategy of bring the tours drug policy into doubt, in terms of consistent handling of cases, so that in court it is easy to argue the PGAT did not give VJ the same courtesies afforded to other players.  Game over, and VJ gets a tidy pay off.  Which he then donates to the Annika sorrenstam foundation.

[navyblueshorts]

...If the committee really believes what they said... "Mr. Dyson’s action in touching the line of his putt was a deliberate one; that act was committed by him in the knowledge of the Rule forbidding such an act; and his purpose in so acting was to improve his position on the green by pressing down a spike mark."... then IMO they are handling this wrong....

I really don't get this at all. Of course it was deliberate you stupid Tour people! No-one thinks he, for example, lost his balance and in saving himself, reached out and flattened a spike mark and no-one thinks he didn't know the appropriate Rule.

What is it that makes them think that Dyson, deliberately, had a thought process that went along the lines of: "Damned spike mark! I know, while no-one's looking I'll quickly use my ball to flatten it. Illegal I know but I'm sure I'll get away with it" ?

That's what they're effectively saying he was thinking and, unless they have a lot more evidence than that bit of film, it's a crock of merde. They can't possibly know anything of the sort.

[super_realist]

Agree Navy.

It's a stupid bloody rule anyway.

[MontysMerkin]

I thought he looked well shifty after he'd done it. And what he did was not a natural action for a golfer at any level. Did not look like a brain fart to me and I am a world renowned reader of body language.

[navyblueshorts]

I thought he looked well shifty after he'd done it. And what he did was not a natural action for a golfer at any level. Did not look like a brain fart to me and I am a world renowned reader of body language.

Of course.....

I wouldn't be at all surprised if, having done it, he very quickly realised it but who knows? In that case, you might hope he'd call a penalty at the time rather than wait for trial-by-video-evidence but, again, that's all just speculation. The assumption here seems to be that if someone does as Dyson did, the default position is that it's with malice aforethought and couldn't possibly have been accidental. Sorry, although I'm a huge cynic, I don't buy that. Most things are cock up rather than conspiracy.

[MontysMerkin]

In the video he certainly has a good look round after he accidentally taps down the spike mark right in front of his marker with the ball. A common mistake - he must be kicking himself.

[beninho]

If it was not an accident, it has to be deliberate. He may not have deliberately set out to break a rule, but not knowing or claiming not to know is not an excuse. Its pretty cut and dried it seems.

[John Cregan]

If it was not an accident, it has to be deliberate. He may not have deliberately set out to break a rule, but not knowing or claiming not to know is not an excuse. Its pretty cut and dried it seems.

If that's the case, how come Tiger wasn't disciplined after Augusta.
Dyson must be entitled to benefit of doubt.

[navyblueshorts]

If it was not an accident, it has to be deliberate. He may not have deliberately set out to break a rule, but not knowing or claiming not to know is not an excuse. Its pretty cut and dried it seems.

Indeed....in which case he got 2 shots, which he hadn't signed for, hence the DQ. Why the additional stuff now?

[MontysMerkin]

If it was not an accident, it has to be deliberate. He may not have deliberately set out to break a rule, but not knowing or claiming not to know is not an excuse. Its pretty cut and dried it seems.

If that's the case, how come Tiger wasn't disciplined after Augusta.
Dyson must be entitled to benefit of doubt.

Tigers special. Dyson invented a vacuum cleaner. It's a no brainer.

[incontinentia]

If it was not an accident, it has to be deliberate. He may not have deliberately set out to break a rule, but not knowing or claiming not to know is not an excuse. Its pretty cut and dried it seems.

If that's the case, how come Tiger wasn't disciplined after Augusta.
Dyson must be entitled to benefit of doubt.

I'm guessing its because in Dyson's case, the committee probably didnt view the incident and make a decision on it before he finished his round. This was what got Tiger off the hook.

[beninho]

Different organisations carrying out different rules infractions. Tiger should have been dq I think at Augusta. Does the masters come under the pga tour to carry out further penalties?

[kwinigolfer]

No!

[Davie]

If it was not an accident, it has to be deliberate.

That line of thinking has been debated for centuries. Known as the law of excluded middle. In real life it's not always true (I don't always trust Wiki on points of fact or truth but for established "theories" it gives pretty even handed commentaries - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_excluded_middle

[incontinentia]

According to the panel, the “extreme seriousness” of such an offence “in the appropriate case” would warrant an immediate suspension, but Dyson’s previous good conduct and the fact that it was a “momentary aberration on his part, not a premeditated act of cheating”, was taken into consideration.

[SmithersJones]

Maybe I'm just a bit pi55ed but this doesn't seem right to me. There are plenty of DQs throughout the season, what exactly makes this worthy of the extra shenanigans?

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