Dyson's cavalier with the rules, reports internet forum

[MontysMerkin]

First topic message reminder :

Renowned and incredibly important and knowledgeable and self proclaimed golf legend, Mr Monty Merkin proclaimed Simon Dyson to be a cheating Kumquat today after the blond haired Muppet blatently cheated while playing some golf. Mr Merkin is thought to be driven to the point of suicide by the fact that such a blonde haired chap could stoop so low.

"I think its a Frak disgrace and if see that blonde Muppet I will boot the arsehat right in the danglies." Mr Merkin was overheard to exclaim to his posse of beautiful hangers on.

[navyblueshorts]

it's a spike mark for goodness sake, not removing a volcanic plug

You obviously don't get the point so it's hardly worth continuing the discussion...

also, you could brush debris away but at the same time smooth a spike mark

...However - Duh! It's easy to identify loose debris.

far too much pedantry in the game.

Maybe, but that's not a good example of it.

Don't be pedantic.

 

A bit like repairing a spike mark, i wonder what other things aren't really cheating?

Sometimes you see someone pressing their club down behind the ball to flatten the grass in the contact area a little bit. Is that really cheating?

Ah. Yes.

[super_realist]

Yes, navy, but in brushing debris aside you could also sneakily flatten a spikemark.

[super_realist]

WOuld a tour threaten Nine Chins and his numerous rule infractions with expulsion?

[Davie]

This story about Dyson is certainly gaining legs .. there are now plenty of whispers and rumours about him having previous "form" in these matters - but nothing (yet) concrete. I wonder how long it will be for a Euro version of Chamblee to come out of the woodwork.

In the meantime, surely this is all a result of the tour (both Euro and US tours) having this big secrecy policy in the past. Whenever any transgressions have passed - be it rules, or drugs or anything else - the actions taken have been behind closed doors

IF this is Dyson's first offense, then surely the DQ is enough - put it down to a mental lapse.

But IF he has had previous transgressions - either they have been ignored, or they have been dealt with behind closed doors - in which case it makes them look foolish because it looks as if they are throwing the book at him for a first offense

[kwinigolfer]

Agreed Davie,
This doesn't pass the smell test. Seems almost vindictive, but suppose there could have been previous suspensions which the public is unaware of.

I wonder who the current player sitting on the disciplinary committee is?

[super_realist]

whoever they are is gingerist.

[McLaren]

When it is reported that a viewer has phoned in a rules violation I somewhat naively imagined an over officious fan sitting at home with daily mail in one hand and the other hand patting a dog.  Who just couldn't let a minor rules infraction go.

But stephanie wei points out that rarely is it a "viewer" that has phoned in;

Again, guys, this "viewer" is obviously an insider -- as in another player not in the field or a rules official not officiating that week. It's not like there'a s hotline to reach the rules trailer. Usually it's someone who has the phone number of an official or a person to get in touch with the right authorities.

WeiUnderPar.com: http://www.weiunderpar.com/post/simon-dyson-faces-serious-disciplinary-action-for-his-daft-rules-infraction#ixzz2jKzSmZox

[super_realist]

Given how sad golfers are in general I would think there are an army of armchair rules officials eager to pounce in their nasal tones in complaint.

'kin hate your average golfer.

[kwinigolfer]

The bloke who shopped Woods at Augusta was a TV-watching Champions Tour player who had previously worked for the USGA for many years.

[McLaren]

The bloke who shopped Woods at Augusta was a TV-watching Champions Tour player who had previously worked for the USGA for many years.

Do you know the name?


Were you aware it was actually industry insiders with an axe to grind who were shopping their "colleagues" and not regular punters?

Is it a surprise that slow play Harrington and Tiger "mr popular" woods have fallen foul of the TV spotted rules violation if it is used as a way for revenge to be exacted. I seriously doubt these "phone ins" are about upholding the integrity of the game.

[GPB]

David Eger was the guy that phoned in Tiger's infraction.

If he never called in, then Tiger would have been DQed.

[kwinigolfer]

Yup, The Eger beaver.
Very interesting interview with him in Golf Digest which I referenced a month or two ago.

http://www.golfdigest.com/magazine/2013-10/my-shot-david-eger


Mac,
Your final paragraph makes about as much sense as Halloween - what on earth are you on about?

[McLaren]

I meant the players who are less popular (for whatever reason) are more likely to receive a phone in violation because someone in the industry is more likely to cause them "harm".

If Wei is correct in saying that rules violations are phoned in by insiders then it is safe to assume the person phoning in might already have an issue with the players they are shopping.

[kwinigolfer]

Wouldn't have thought either Harrington or Woods are "unpopular".

[McLaren]

I have to say it seemed like Woods and McIroy really had an issue with Harringtons slow play when discussing it the other day, no way are they Harrington fans given the tone used in taking about him.


Do you think there is a wider issue in allowing "viewers" to highlight potential rules infractions if they are not actually viewers but interested parties with close ties to the game?

Referees have to be impartial but outsiders may not necessarily be.  I understand that if the highlighted issue is in fact an infringement than all that as happened is that the rules have been correctly applied.  It would seem that no harm has been done.

But what if certain players are targeted more than others by eagle eyed viewers (or insiders, as is the case).  It would now be the case that some players are held to a higher level of scrutiny than others, which it could be argued is not really fair.

Say Dyson was unpopular and a group of other players decided he needed to learn a lesson, so it is ensured that a group of insiders is watching his every move waiting for the moment they can call in.  Seems a bit off to me.

This all sounds a bit conspiratorial I know, but shades of this extreme case could exist and the point still stands that some players may be facing a different level of rules enforcement from others.

[kwinigolfer]

Mac,
You're very conspiratorial.
Would only say that, in any sport, the most successful players are under the most scrutiny.

We talk about Ashley Young doing his Tom Daley act every game, but what about Bootsie McGonagle playing for Brechin? No-one gives a toss until he makes the big time.

Same thing, goes with the territory.

[MustPuttBetter]

Brechin beat Arbroath 3-1 last week and Bootsie had a good game, coming off the bench with 15 to go. Managed 6 completed passed and 2 dives. He thought he played ok but will be disappointed to learn no one gives a toss

[navyblueshorts]

Yes, navy, but in brushing debris aside you could also sneakily flatten a spikemark.

Of course you could. You'd be cheating though. Depends if you'd be happy with that. I wouldn't be.

[navyblueshorts]

The Dyson situation will become really stupid if they do anything in addition to his DQ. He touched his putting line, he was informed of it, he accepted it, he was DQ'd. End of story. To suggest that he should have some extra sanction on top of what is already defined is dumb. Regardless of any 'previous'. Maybe he's just a bit thick?

I'm with Mac as well. The idea some old fart, not affiliated now or in the past with the game, is phoning in infractions after watching HD slo-mo replays is one thing. The idea it's people who may have an obvious conflict of interest stinks.

[super_realist]

Yes, navy, but in brushing debris aside you could also sneakily flatten a spikemark.

Of course you could. You'd be cheating though. Depends if you'd be happy with that. I wouldn't be.

It's not whether I do it or not, it's if Dyson could have done this instead.

[Doc]

Over the last couple of years there have been quite a few infringements that were picked up after the event, and sanctions meted out restrospectivley. The stories around armchair rules officials is obviously garbage because officials are looking at things a few minutes after the alleged infringement, so has to be an insider of some description either TV crew or someone who knows someone at the event. Accidents/errors happen and most players who make an error actually call it themselves even though nobody else noticed! So either we give Dyson the benefit of the doubt for being thick or we tar him with the same brush as the fat jock a couple of seasons ago. Should restrospective action be condoned? Rules officials follow the play and can rule if they see an infingement, but if they don't should someone be allowed to tell tales external of the group in question? I don't agree unless a player has blatantly cheated and it can be proven that he was cheating. If this was the case then said player should have his playing rights stripped and be tossed out of the game.

Some of the rules are stupid and no possible gain from some of these stupid rules

[MontysMerkin]

Cannot believe that anyone who plays this, the most gentlemanly of games, would intentionally cheat.  

[pedro]

Cannot believe that anyone who plays this, the most gentlemanly of games, would intentionally cheat.  

Well, have you ever met any gentlemen at a gentleman's club???

[Bob_the_Job]

The idea it's people who may have an obvious conflict of interest stinks.

Really? The most obvious conflicts of interest are between the competitors themselves, so are you saying if a player sees another player infringing a rule he shouldn't call it since he stands to gain out of it?

Regardless of that, the rules are the rules and it's not really all that important how a breach comes to be known

[MontysMerkin]

The idea it's people who may have an obvious conflict of interest stinks.

Really? The most obvious conflicts of interest are between the competitors themselves, so are you saying if a player sees another player infringing a rule he shouldn't call it since he stands to gain out of it?

Regardless of that, the rules are the rules and it's not really all that important how a breach comes to be known

Think the tv coverage means that only certain players are getting picked up tho. Bit unfair that a lesser player might have got away with an 'absent minded' infringement whereas Jo Bogglebollox gets away with it. I mean we have all followed chubby haggis nosher saltman very closely which is why he couldn't get away with his 'absent minded' ball marking debacle.

[Bob_the_Job]

I know what you mean, but to be followed closely you're either known for being a bit liberal with the rules, or you're very successful, and in either case I find it hard to summon up much sympathy.

[MontysMerkin]

I know what you mean, but to be followed closely you're either known for being a bit liberal with the rules, or you're very successful, and in either case I find it hard to summon up much sympathy.

Is that liberal or cavalier? 

[Bob_the_Job]

They're called Insignia these days...they've gone the way of Marathons and Opal Fruits (UK & I relevant only).

[navyblueshorts]

Yes, navy, but in brushing debris aside you could also sneakily flatten a spikemark.

Of course you could. You'd be cheating though. Depends if you'd be happy with that. I wouldn't be.

It's not whether I do it or not, it's if Dyson could have done this instead.

He didn't though did he?

[navyblueshorts]

The idea it's people who may have an obvious conflict of interest stinks.

Really? The most obvious conflicts of interest are between the competitors themselves, so are you saying if a player sees another player infringing a rule he shouldn't call it since he stands to gain out of it?

Regardless of that, the rules are the rules and it's not really all that important how a breach comes to be known

OK. Fair point. I guess I have doubts as to whether the same criteria are applied to all players. If not, I think it's pretty poor. I also think it's pretty pathetic if anyone, current or past, with ties to the governing bodies has a particular vendetta and uses this sort of approach to tar one player or another.

[MontysMerkin]

Good job SR isn't involved, baldy 15.9845 chins would never be able to compete again!

[super_realist]

Yes, navy, but in brushing debris aside you could also sneakily flatten a spikemark.

Of course you could. You'd be cheating though. Depends if you'd be happy with that. I wouldn't be.

It's not whether I do it or not, it's if Dyson could have done this instead.

He didn't though did he?

No he didn't but if he wanted to intentionally cheat in a clandestine fashion he might have tried this instead.

[raycastleunited]

Can somebody please enlighten me as to what Saltman did. I know it was something to do with marking his ball on the green, but that's it.

[Davie]

I'm sure someone will look it up (or even know without looking it up) and explain better, but I think it was something to do with marking the ball at (for example) the 3 o'clock position and replacing it at 6 o'clock, so gaining a fraction of an inch

[robopz]

If Wei is correct in saying that rules violations are phoned in by insiders then it is safe to assume the person phoning in might already have an issue with the players they are shopping.  

I don't believe Wei is correct.  At least for the PGA Tour... the numbers to "get connected" are probably less than 30 seconds away for a reasonably competent Google user.  (CIMB and HSBC probably exceptions though).   I have access to the numbers anyway... but as I test I just did a search for the McGladrey classic... I found the Tournament office... and then found the direct line to the event media director. in no time at all.   Once anyone has that... it's just a matter of telling them why the call... they'll put you though.   (EDIT: and I just found the Mayakoba numbers even quicker just now)

When the TW Masters deal came up... there were several references on air to many events getting numerous calls... indicating it was common.  When I asked around in ensuing weeks... I was given the impression call ins were more common than I ever expected (like multiple calls virtually every week) ... but the vast majority by regular fans, and most who had either misinterpreted what they thought they saw... or  didn't understand the base rules they were calling about.   For instance... I saw some squawk on another board last week about somebody "illegally" improving the area of his intended drop when he removed some loose impediments before taking his relief from a hazard. But of course that is allowed.

[McLaren]

Robo

It is one thing to find the number, it is quite another to get anyone on the other end of the line to take you seriously. Unless of course you have some status with the rules tent.

[kwinigolfer]

Mac,
Trouble is that you keep getting super_realist's number . . . . . . . .

[McLaren]

Mac,
Trouble is that you keep getting super_realist's number . . . . . . . .

That would analogous with me calling George Osborne. It would be a worry if he DID take me seriously.

[gaelgowfer]

Almost missed this article about McIlroy's puppy dog devotion to Woods.  Nice little tidbit about Steiny too:

“Steiny” reached for the thesaurus and searched for as many variations on the word ‘disgusting’ as he could possibly find. So much moralising from a man who last year was arrested for drunk driving. In one of the quotes of 2012 – or any other year for that matter – arresting Sergeant Dave Fisher pointed out that Steinberg had told him who he was – yes, THE Mark Steinberg – but that it didn’t matter a damn. “He was intoxicated,” said Fisher, before adding the delicious Tigeresque pay-off: “It is what it is.”

http://www.scotsman.com/news/tom-english-temptation-to-give-mcilroy-gentle-slap-1-3171561

[kwinigolfer]

 
Thanks gael,
It is what it is.

[MontysMerkin]

Simon Dyson disqualification: Is it time to introduce video refs?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/golf/24811196

Carters lost it?

[Roller_Coaster]

If Carter had a video ref, he could see where it's gone!

To do it properly you have 2 days of (about?) 130 players hitting 72 shots each (granted in 2 batches of 65 am and pm) regardless of the theory behind it, it's logistically ridiculous. To go on the TV coverage already available will miss the majority of players never mind shots.

Think Mr Carter is struggling to fill his one column every 3 weeks slot requirement...

[beninho]

If you have someone to scrutinize the TV images, then it should remove the potential for people ringing in to report something they have seen, as you would hope it has already been picked up on. Its not about watching every player hit every shot, because no one can see this, and therefore its highly unlikely something will be reported. Its sounds like a simple conclusion to stop people ringing.

[MontysMerkin]

Even simpler to not pick up the phone!

[Roller_Coaster]

Unfortunately I don't think you will stop the ringing up. People that are so inclined will continue to do so whether they know someone is on site reviewing TV footage or not.

[raycastleunited]

As Monty said... don't pick up the phone!

It's ridiculous that this happens. Can you imagine if fans could ring up during a football match to point out referee errors or cheating from players that the ref had missed!

"Excuse me UEFA, but I believe Ashley Young dived. I know it's totally out of character. Can you quickly notify the referee so he can caution Young for simulation before the game ends."

[incontinentia]

agreed ray, golf must be the only sport with interactive refereeing!

[MontysMerkin]

"Excuse me UEFA, but I believe Ashley Young dived. I know it's totally out of character. "

                

[Roller_Coaster]

TV viewer voting could be the way to go...

Video clip followed by

Dial 09064 xxx xx1 if you want Woods to get a 2 shot penalty
Dial 09064 xxx xx2 if you want Woods to get a d/q
Dial 09064 xxx xx3 if you see no infringement and his score should stand

Find out the results tomorrow on Finchem's got talent - the results show which this week features a special long iron performance by Lee Trevino.

[Roller_Coaster]

"Excuse me UEFA, but I believe Ashley Young dived. I know it's totally out of character. "

                

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