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Featherweights Semi Final

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Sun 15 May 2011, 1:39 pm

The draw randomly picked by our resident boxing admin Windy is as follows

Quarter Finals:

Vicente Saldivar bt. Kid Chocolate UD15

Jim Driscoll bt Abb Attell UD15


Salvador Sanchez bt Sandy Saddler UD15

Will Pep bt Alexis Arguello UD15


Semi Finals:

Jim Driscoll bt Vicente Saldivar SD15

Willie Pep bt Salvador Sanchez MD15

Final:

Wille Pep bt Driscoll UD15

Winner:

Willie Pep

As you can see the pre tournament favourites are all in the lower half of the draw which gives an outsider the chance of progressing to the final to battle it out to see whom the good people of 606v2 have as the greatest featherweight of all time. Many surprises in the voting itself with only two votes going to any pre 1990 boxer with Morales and Pacquiao getting a vote each with Marco Antonio Barrera failing to get even one. Not many surprises as Sanchez, Pep and Saddler received a vote from each and every poster who voted. Most surprisingly of all was to see the stylisitic southpaw Vicente Saldivar comfortably coming in 4th with many more illustrious names trailing in his wake especially Johnny Dundee a two weight world champion of the 1920's who got a single vote to his name.

To kick things off 4th Saldivar faces off against 7th seed Kid Chocolate, remember to include a breakdown of how you see the fight going with a definitive answer at the end whether it be KO, decision (unanimous, split, majority or draw) or even possibly disqualification.


Last edited by Imperial Ghosty on Sat 28 May 2011, 12:10 pm; edited 7 times in total

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Post by HumanWindmill Sun 15 May 2011, 1:59 pm

Saldivar v Chocolate is a fabulous match up.

Chocolate, one of Robinson's greatest influences, was fast of hand and foot, lost only nine or ten out of a hundred and fifty odd fights, and has some stellar names on his record. It's part of the Jack ' Kid ' Berg legend that he bettered Chocolate, though his win over Canzoneri didn't do his rep any harm, either.

Saldivar I remember very well from having followed his trilogy with our own Howard Winstone back in the day. Saldivar was relentless, was able to box or brawl it out, seemed to thoroughly enjoy doing either and gave the impression that he could do it all day.

Difficult call, since Berg's industry upset Chocolate, while Howard Winstone is entitled to feel aggrieved at dropping a decision in one of his fights against Saldivar, many believing that his excellent skills and tenacity had been worth the nod.

Gun to my head, I'll go for Chocolate over the full distance. The naturally bigger man, with the better outside game, probably enabling him to avoid Saldivar's storied body attacks.

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Post by 88Chris05 Sun 15 May 2011, 2:12 pm

First off, have to say I'm a bit surprised at how the voting has gone for this. That said, it's still a superb field and all the match ups are interesting ones.

I doubt this will be a popular opinion, but I'd actually back Saldivar to beat Chocolate fairly convincingly. I'll probably get slated for this, but I've always felt that Chocolate is slightly overrated, whereas Saldivar on the other hand is criminally underrated (hence why I included him as a forgotten great on the old 606).

The old boxing dictum of 'boxer beats slugger, beats swarmer, beats boxer' springs to mind with this one; Saldivar is all wrong for the 'Cuban Bon Bon' for my money. The frenetic pace which Berg set against Chocolate was the perfect blueprint on how to beat him, and while Chocolate was truly masterful at long range, from what I've seen of him he always looked half the fighter on the inside and when under serious pressure.

I've watched Saldivar over and over as I've long been fascinated by him, and if there's one thing which stood out about him more than anything else it was his fantastic work rate. He was a master at 'controlled aggression' and forcing his opponent back to work the inside, and as good and vicious a short hooker as there's ever been at Featherweight. He had the stamina to match it, too, and I don't think that Chocolate hit hard enough to dishearten the Mexican in his constant attack. I see the first few rounds being even, but Saldivar eventually walking Chocolate down and forcing him to retreat for the remainder, taking rounds on pressure for the most part. Shades of Robinson-Basilio I, only more conclusive in my opinion.

Saldivar by fairly wide decision over fifteen rounds, 145-140 or something similar. Cheers.
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Post by Imperial Ghosty Sun 15 May 2011, 2:19 pm

Difficult one to call, neither was a concussive puncher so fully envisage it would go the full rounds which wouldn't be a problem for either of them but do agree that over the distance the size advantage could play a significant part.

Saldivar for all his brilliance wasn't Berg or Canzoneri nor did he compete in an era as strong as the 1930's where between bantamweight and light welterweight the depth of quality fighters has never been stronger.

Style wise though do feel that the southpaw stance could pose Chocolate a few problems and combine that with a very strong body attack will give the edge to Saldivar via a 15 round decision

144-141 x 3 Saldivar

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Post by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Sun 15 May 2011, 3:18 pm

Tough one to call but would say it would go the full 15 neither were big punchers.

Chocolate to have some joy for the first 5 rounds keeping Salvidar at distance. But Salvidar was unrelenting and supremely fit could just come forward all night long. I think Salvidar would eventually walk Chocolate down and turn the fight into a close up fight on the inside where he would have the better of Chocolate and his excellent body punches would be the key. Salvidar to realy dominate the 2nd half of the fight to take a wide UD. I like Chocolate but this is just a bad match up for him.

145-140 x3 Salvidar.
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Post by Rowley Mon 16 May 2011, 9:14 am

Tough one to call, as others have rightly said have to fancy this one to go the full 15 and over that distance Salvidar is tough to keep off. As, has been said supremely fit fighter who is tough to discourage or keep off over the full length of the fight. Could go either way but will go with what seems to be the prevailing view that Vincente's body attack is enough to sneak a close points win

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Post by captain carrantuohil Mon 16 May 2011, 9:20 am

Saldivar was one hell of a pressure fighter, almost the archetype of the great Mexicans that were to follow him. His high-intensity approach was just too much for Howard Winstone, a man whose pure boxing ability can be compared with Chocolate's without the slightest need for hyperbole.

Winstone was a magnificent judge of distance and timing, but even he succumbed to the Mexican's debilitating body attack in the end. Saldivar was a master of the fifteen round distance, often roaring back from large deficits to catch up with his man in the championship rounds, either by stoppage (Rojas) or by sweeping rounds 13-15 (Winstone twice). The effect of Saldivar's southpaw stance can't be underestimated either. It blunted the impact of Winstone's greatest weapon, the jab, and I reckon would do the same to Kid Chocolate, who could be thrown off course by a swarming fighter (Berg, Battalino). The percentage call is Saldivar by come-from-behind UD, but I don't rule out a14th round stoppage for the Mexican. I'll score the fight 144-141 three times, however, like Atom.

Love the other match-ups, by the way. Although I rate Saddler the greatest featherweight of them all, I'll be making the case for why he gets taken out at the first hurdle in this competition.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Mon 16 May 2011, 1:03 pm

Good to see that the Jofre fight isn't being used against Saldivar, despite being 8 years younger he was coming off a long lay off and well past his best, impressive win for Jofre nonetheless.

With you Saddler/Sanchez will explain in more depth when the time comes

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Post by The Galveston Giant Mon 16 May 2011, 1:53 pm

Get mine up soon Atom when i get a minute
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Post by Imperial Ghosty Mon 16 May 2011, 5:23 pm

I'll let this run til midday tomorrow then i'll reveal the winner

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Post by The Galveston Giant Tue 17 May 2011, 9:44 am

Vicente Saldivar vs Kid Chocolate

I see this one as a quiet affair for the first 4 rounds before Saldivar starts to switch to the body in the mid rounds, bringing more success. Chocolate to pull himself back into the fight in the later rounds leaving it up to the championship rounds to determine a winner, both men give it there all in the last 3 rounds but it's a close call.


Saldivar by SD

144 - 142 Saldivar
145 - 143 Chocolate
145 - 141 Saldivar



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Post by Colonial Lion Tue 17 May 2011, 11:04 am

Its a fascinating match up due to the blend of styles and I would imagine it has the potential to be a fantastic spectacle.

I would vote in favour of Kid Chocolate winning by decision. There may not be a more unfortunate boxer out there in terms of having big decions go against him. Hes considered by many to have beaten Berg and Canzoneri at various points but just never recieived the decision. Its also worth noting that he was outweighed significantly in these contests.

I believe Chocolate had the style to outbox Saldivar at range and was also very adept on the inside in terms of nullifying his opponent. He was a keen student of the sport and realised the importance of utilising the clinch. Two things go against him in this fight. One is his power which is not massive and the other is workrate of which Saldivar had in abundance.

Stylistically one would expect Saldiar to maintain a high pace from start to finish and look to pressurize Chocolate. However I believe Chocolate is adept enough on the inside, and was able to do so against bigger men like Berg to lead me to believe he can cope with Saldivar up front and I would expect Chocolate to have the fight his way at range.

My guess is that the fight would unfold with Saldivar having a good opening couple of rounds but Chocolate settling into a rythm and winning the middle rounds through utilising his skills at range and tying up Sladivar effectively up front when neccessary. I would expect Chocolate to be the wearier late on and have to survive a late Saldivar onslaught, but ultimately building up enough of a lead to take a decision over 15.

Its also worth considering that Chocolate was only stopped twice in a career with well over 100 contests, and that was only when it emerged he was suffering from syphillas.

To summarize, I think Chocolate has much the better on the outside and is effective enough to cope on the inside when called upon to take the decision.

145-142 in favour of Kid Chocolate is my verdict.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Wed 18 May 2011, 8:41 pm

Saldivar is the winner with a unamious decision

144-141
144-141
143-142

Next up is Abb Attell against one time opponent Jim Driscoll, wonder how this one will go

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Post by wow_junky Wed 18 May 2011, 8:55 pm

From the accounts of their fight that I've read Driscoll was the clear winner but didn't get the nod. Attell clearly had the better record though, which does make it interesting... but Attell was bang in his prime when he lost to Driscoll, so no excuses there.

I pick Driscoll via UD, 10-5

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Post by HumanWindmill Wed 18 May 2011, 9:01 pm

Driscoll for me, the fight that the two shared being the only evidence I would require to persuade me.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Wed 18 May 2011, 9:05 pm

Driscoll for me too Windy, impossible to call it any other really as WJ said Attell was bang in his prime at the time so no excuses for the loss can be made. 147- 138, 146-139, 146-139

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Post by captain carrantuohil Wed 18 May 2011, 9:13 pm

Agreed with everyone else - Attell ripped off both Driscoll and Owen Moran more than once. A home draw specialist, he had his abilities, of course, but impossible to think that he would convince three impartial judges that he had beaten Jim. Providing the fight is not in the US, in which case it's probably another bloody draw, Driscoll by runaway decision - 148-137 three times, since I'm the judge, in this case!

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Post by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Thu 19 May 2011, 12:23 am

Judging by what I have read about their only fight Driscoll seemed to have been robbed of a decision. On this basis alone I would need to go for the same again Driscoll byt UD.

148-141
147-141
141-142
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Post by Imperial Ghosty Thu 19 May 2011, 8:05 am

Will let this run until midday but looks pretty obvious who's won it

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Post by Rowley Thu 19 May 2011, 8:57 am

The Attell Driscoll fight is a little unfortunate because whilst Attell is obviously a great fighter given he lost to Driscoll in his pomp is hard to call against Jim doing the trick again. Also as Attell was involved in fixing the 1919 world series he deserves to lose

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Post by The Galveston Giant Thu 19 May 2011, 11:50 am

Sorry for the rudey poo post but thought i would nip in before it closes, tried to find a newspaper report of the fight to post but found one second hand and didn't trust it.

Driscoll UD

145-141
147-145
147-143
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Post by Imperial Ghosty Thu 19 May 2011, 12:02 pm

Driscoll by unanimous decision with scores of:

147-140
147-139
146-140

Time for the big one Saddler takes on Sanchez

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Post by HumanWindmill Thu 19 May 2011, 12:05 pm

Saddler v Sanchez ? Head to head this is as close as it gets to a pick 'em, for me.

I always liken Sanchez to Hagler, in that he probably wasn't the best at anything but was excellent at everything. He possessed a tremendous chin, decent enough wallop, could mix it up and work on the outside or inside. He could also do it all day long. On the negative side, his counterpunching style and sometimes leaky defence might present problems against a puncher like Saddler, and particularly so since Sandy possessed a very long reach and sometimes threw his shots from strange angles and pretty accurately, to boot.

On the other hand, despite the fact that none other than Archie Moore had taught him how to cover up under fire and present as small a target as possible, Saddler also sometimes exhibited a bit of a porous defence and had a tendency to leave himself open down the middle. Sanchez certainly had the handspeed and accuracy to make him pay for that, and I can't quite shake the memory of Lopez' face by the time Sanchez had finished with him. Neither am I entirely sure that Saddler, despite being, ( presumably, ) the slightly stronger man, would be able to rough up Sanchez in the manner to which he was accustomed - the Elorde fight, for example - and this could be key. If Saddler could stay tight to Sanchez, as he did to Elorde and to Willie Pep, ( particularly first time out, ) and turn this into a messy affair I believe that he had the tricks and experience to eek out a decision. If not, I see Sanchez producing a mild upset, courtesy of his versatility and industry.

I'd love to call it a draw, but I think I'll heed the little voice inside which is trying to persuade me that Sanchez' chin and industry trump Saddler's power and reach and that Sanchez takes it, more often than not, by razor thin decision.

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Post by wow_junky Thu 19 May 2011, 2:09 pm

Sanchez wins this one for me, probably wider than expected as well.

Although Sanchez struggled with lesser fighters, when he came against ones with a similar style to Saddler he was pretty dominant. Saddler's reach would make it more competetive, but I can still see Sanchez having enough success to win the majority of rounds.

Sanchez UD, 10-5

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Thu 19 May 2011, 2:17 pm

Will have to go for Sanchez as well, is possibly the worst potential match up for Saddler and while I think he beats everyone else can't see him beating the more technically sound Salvador. Strange to think that I wont have him winning the semi final either way but he wins this one. Will be a few hairy moments to start with but Saddler gets disheartened seeing his dirty work has no real effect on someone more physically imposing than either Pep or Elorde. Gets hit with every shot in the book and finishes the fight a bloody mess while getting success of his own isn't able to pin Sanchez down to really make it count. Saddler connects with the bigger punches to get some rounds under his belt but the cleaner work of Sanchez wins in the end.

Sanchez UD 144-141, 143-142x2

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Post by captain carrantuohil Thu 19 May 2011, 2:20 pm

Excellent summary by Windy. I want to start by reiterating that if you ask me to draw up an all-time top 10 featherweight list, Saddler would be right at the top of it. His record brooks no argument - in the money fights, he was virtually unbeatable. He was also unarguably the hardest punching 126 lb man of them all and established clear superiority over the man often touted as the greatest, Willie Pep.

However, the one man he doesn't beat is Sanchez for me, at least not four times out of five. I have to demur mildly at Windy's contention that Sanchez wan't the best at anything, although very high in most departments. As a counterpuncher and a body-puncher, he was as good as anything there's ever been at the weight. Sal would relish Sandy's relentless, come-forward style, and would be equally comfortable peppering him with jabs and straight rights as he would in the trenches, smashing in those magnificent left hooks to the body. Sanchez knew just what to do with punchers (Lopez, Gomez) and while neither hit as hard as Sandy, Sal also had the trump card of an unshakable and justifiable confidence in his own iron chin. Sanchez could look less than interested in apparently unthreatening opposition such as Ford and Cowdell; against the great Saddler, I would expect him to be razor-sharp.

I can see Saddler stalking Sanchez relentlessly, but having to swallow three shots for every two he lands. Perhaps one time out of five he could bust up Sanchez with a combination of massive punching and dirty tricks sufficiently to earn a TKO. However, for the most part, I feel that Sal has enough in his armoury to stay ahead. A constantly absorbing fight goes to the judges and by counts of around 145-141, Sanchez takes a unanimous decision.

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Post by azania Thu 19 May 2011, 2:22 pm

Saddler for me via TKO as Sanchez will suffer an arm injury. Regardless, Sanchez would not have met someone in the calibre of Saddler who as has been alluded knew every trick in the book and wrote some also. The dark arts were the norm for him. Aside from that he was probably the hardest hitting FW and threw punches from angles that would make Hamed blush.

I'd go for Saddler by late TKO or close but clear UD.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Thu 19 May 2011, 2:28 pm

Don't want to be one to question your knowledge captain but would Saddlers relative inconsistency not count against him slightly in the all time lists? Read somewhere that Pep beat 8 guys who had previously beaten Saddler or would go on to beat him whereas the same can't be said in reverse, the head to heads i'll admit are quite damming but a slick defensive fighter like Pep is going to struggle when his movement is restricted significantly.

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Post by captain carrantuohil Thu 19 May 2011, 2:37 pm

Sandy certainly tended to coast in some of his non-title fights, Ghosty. He dropped three in a row while he was still featherweight (and jr lightweight) champ. However, when the money was down and the crown was on the line, there was virtually no-one better. 8-1 in title fights, including Pep three times and Elorde leaves no room for manoeuvre.

Pep was a great, great fighter, but in assessing them at the highest level, which is to say, world title fights, there is little between their excellence. The head to head record is my idea of the tie-breaker between them. Had Sanchez lived beyond 23, I honestly believe that he could have surpassed the pair of them.


Last edited by captain carrantuohil on Fri 20 May 2011, 11:52 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Getting a name right)

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Thu 19 May 2011, 2:50 pm

Actually think Sanchez beat the better fighters out of the three but does fall down for longevity although as a 23 year old to have ten title defences is mightily impressive. Never liked using the Saddler loses against Pep really, was not at his best and unlike some think being left partially paralyzed following a plane crash is one of the more valid excuses. Comes down to personal preference between the pair really.

Lopez, Castillo, Gomez, Nelson and Laporte is a very strong CV regardless of age and certainly makes Sanchez a clear number three, his ranking on IBRO is an absolute joke.

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Post by captain carrantuohil Thu 19 May 2011, 2:58 pm

The plane crash is a valid excuse up to a point, Ghosty. Many people, rightly in my opinion, point to the second Saddler-Pep fight as Pep's crowning glory and greatest performance. The one fight that he won against Saddler, it featured a masterclass in the art of pure boxing, was awarded fight of the years honours and showed that Pep could overcome the man with a longer reach than Marciano.

That fight also happened after Pep's accident. I don't think that we can have it both ways. It is hard to believe that a man shorn of mobility could turn in a career-best performance against as formidable an opponent as Saddler. It is greatly to Saddler's credit, in my opinion, that he was able to turn the tide in their two subsequent meetings. Mobile or not, Willie's career extended long after Sandy had been forced to call it a day by the after-effects of his own transport accident.


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Post by Imperial Ghosty Thu 19 May 2011, 3:11 pm

That to me shows Peps brilliance more than anything that he was still able outbox someone as good as Saddler, prior to the plane crash can only envisage one winner i'm possibly over playing the significance of the accident here.

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Post by captain carrantuohil Fri 20 May 2011, 10:48 am

Thought I might just add something so that the post remains top of mind as we go into the final quarter final. I'm interested to see that so many agree that Sanchez would simply have had Saddler's number. Almost as interested to see azania pick the less modern fighter - perhaps azania is just a devil's advocate, and enjoys picking against the flow, regardless of the generations.

Not a bad habit to have, but you can admit it to us.... Wink

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Post by wow_junky Fri 20 May 2011, 11:14 am

captain carrantuohil wrote:Thought I might just add something so that the post remains top of mind as we go into the final quarter final. I'm interested to see that so many agree that Sanchez would simply have had Saddler's number. Almost as interested to see azania pick the less modern fighter - perhaps azania is just a devil's advocate, and enjoys picking against the flow, regardless of the generations.

Not a bad habit to have, but you can admit it to us.... Wink

If a poll only had 1 option Azania would still pick something else, white is black and black is white to him boxing makes for some interesting debates!

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Post by sittingringside Fri 20 May 2011, 11:34 am

I'm going to go for Sanchez by UD here, closeish but with a little daylight. I think the keys to this matchup are Saddler imposing his physicallity on Sanchez and getting away his best shots, the way he did so excellently against Pep on 3 occasions, if he can't pin his man down I think Sanchez's handspeed coupled with his engine see him winning the key rounds. As I think someon mentioned earlier, Sanchez knew just what to do with punchers, added to this he was able to deal with physically strong fighters such as Nelson and tended to come on even stronger down the stretch. Although Saddler beats almost everyone in the draw, I would pick Sanchez to impose his strengths more effectively than Saddler in this matchup.

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Post by azania Fri 20 May 2011, 11:47 am

wow_junky wrote:
captain carrantuohil wrote:Thought I might just add something so that the post remains top of mind as we go into the final quarter final. I'm interested to see that so many agree that Sanchez would simply have had Saddler's number. Almost as interested to see azania pick the less modern fighter - perhaps azania is just a devil's advocate, and enjoys picking against the flow, regardless of the generations.

Not a bad habit to have, but you can admit it to us.... Wink

If a poll only had 1 option Azania would still pick something else, white is black and black is white to him boxing makes for some interesting debates!

Ha. Contrary? Me? Never 8)

I base my decision on the simple fact that Saddler could handle an apparent defensive wizard like Pep with relative ease. It did help him that Pep couldn't punch his way out of a saturated paper bag. Against Sanchez, SS would use all his knowledge and break Sanchez down eventually winning a close and dirty decision.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Fri 20 May 2011, 1:14 pm

Who would have thought this, the pre tournament favourite is out at the first hurdle

Sanchez UD (common theme here)
144-141
145-140
145-140

Next up the fight i'm looking forward to most between Willie Pep and Alexis Arguello, two nailed on greats of the sport but will it be the Will o'the Wisp or the El Flaco Explosivo for the final semi final spot?

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Post by captain carrantuohil Fri 20 May 2011, 1:33 pm

On the purely physical face of it, Pep is up against a Saddleresque opponent here. Arguello is tall, rangy, hits murderously hard and will not be discouraged, however far behind he falls. However, there are two important differences. Firstly, Alexis was not the supremely dominant fighter at 126 that he became at super-feather, a division in which, I believe, he beats anybody who has ever lived. He lost to an excellent boxer in Marcel, who wasn't in Pep's league, had major difficulties with an Olivares who had seen better days and was overall not so rounded a fighter as he was to become later.

Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, Arguello was not as effective an in-fighter as Saddler (nor as flagrantly dirty). Alexis preferred to have his opponents on the end of those massive straight rights and left hooks, and although he was not a negligible body puncher, most of his best work was not done from close quarters. Saddler imposed his will and physique on Pep, for the most part; I'm less convinced that Arguello could manage the same feat.

Even in his glory days at super-feather, Arguello somewhat absent-mindedly managed to drop a non-title decision to a lightweight pitty-pat puncher, Vilomar Fernandez. I can't overlook this when assessing the challenge that Pep would pose. Pep could be KO'd by a huge puncher, as Saddler showed, but in general, I don't think that Alexis manoeuvres Pep into the right place often enough to manage it. If he does, then Alexis can win, but Pep must be too slick most of the time.

A unanimous decision, 146-139 to the great Willie the Wisp.

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Post by HumanWindmill Fri 20 May 2011, 1:39 pm

I'm sorry to say that, not for the first time, I find myself cleaning up unnecessary mess on other threads rather than being able to enjoy discussing boxing. Therefore, I cannot go into as much detail as I would like, and I am delighted to see that captain carrantuohil has very eloquently and thoroughly covered all the bases for me, and then some.

Pep, over the long route, for me.

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Post by The Galveston Giant Fri 20 May 2011, 2:20 pm

Sorry missed the last one but it's starting to move fast this thread and not getting on as much as i like just now.

Willie Pep vs Alexis Arguello


Fancy a quiet start to the fight with Arguello keeping busy enough to knick the first 3 rounds using his height and reach, Pep then starts to figure out the distance a bit better and is starting to outwork Arguello, landing frequently to the body. Pep takes rounds 4 - 8 before being dropped by a perfectly timed uppercut in the 9th, he goes on his bike and his head is cleared before the round ends. Arguello comes forward strong in the 10th looking to land the uppercut again, Pep's picking him off as he comes forward though and by the time the 11th starts, Arguello goes back to boxing, takes the 12th round and a share of the 13th before losing the last 2 rounds.

Pep by UD.
144 - 143
144 - 143
144 - 141



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Post by azania Fri 20 May 2011, 2:29 pm

I'd go for Pep reluctantly. The reason being on top form, he will evade AA's shots. AA threw straight shots and not from the angles Sadler did. Pep would make him miss and counter him. Plus AA has death struggles to make FW and willl not be as powerful as he was later in his career.

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Post by wow_junky Fri 20 May 2011, 3:17 pm

I really wanted to pick Arguello, and seeing as Pep is probably going to make it through I will!

I think Arguello brings many of the problems that Saddler did, but instead of the rough house tactics he has the extra height/reach advantage, which Arguello would need to use to full effect to gain the upper hand over Pep. Arguello on form is certainly good enough to give Pep trouble, but he would need to really hammer down a gameplan to make Pep pay in full.

Unlikely, but I think Arguello pulls out a late stoppage over Pep if he can get his tactics right - mixing up his shots from range with the occassional close up assault.

Arguello TKO14 Pep boxing

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Post by azania Fri 20 May 2011, 3:21 pm

wow_junky wrote:I really wanted to pick Arguello, and seeing as Pep is probably going to make it through I will!

I think Arguello brings many of the problems that Saddler did, but instead of the rough house tactics he has the extra height/reach advantage, which Arguello would need to use to full effect to gain the upper hand over Pep. Arguello on form is certainly good enough to give Pep trouble, but he would need to really hammer down a gameplan to make Pep pay in full.

Unlikely, but I think Arguello pulls out a late stoppage over Pep if he can get his tactics right - mixing up his shots from range with the occassional close up assault.

Arguello TKO14 Pep boxing

Now who is being contrary? Very Happy

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Post by wow_junky Fri 20 May 2011, 3:47 pm

azania wrote:
wow_junky wrote:I really wanted to pick Arguello, and seeing as Pep is probably going to make it through I will!

I think Arguello brings many of the problems that Saddler did, but instead of the rough house tactics he has the extra height/reach advantage, which Arguello would need to use to full effect to gain the upper hand over Pep. Arguello on form is certainly good enough to give Pep trouble, but he would need to really hammer down a gameplan to make Pep pay in full.

Unlikely, but I think Arguello pulls out a late stoppage over Pep if he can get his tactics right - mixing up his shots from range with the occassional close up assault.

Arguello TKO14 Pep boxing

Now who is being contrary? Very Happy

You weren't, so someone had to! furious

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Post by azania Fri 20 May 2011, 3:53 pm

wow_junky wrote:
azania wrote:
wow_junky wrote:I really wanted to pick Arguello, and seeing as Pep is probably going to make it through I will!

I think Arguello brings many of the problems that Saddler did, but instead of the rough house tactics he has the extra height/reach advantage, which Arguello would need to use to full effect to gain the upper hand over Pep. Arguello on form is certainly good enough to give Pep trouble, but he would need to really hammer down a gameplan to make Pep pay in full.

Unlikely, but I think Arguello pulls out a late stoppage over Pep if he can get his tactics right - mixing up his shots from range with the occassional close up assault.

Arguello TKO14 Pep boxing

Now who is being contrary? Very Happy

You weren't, so someone had to! furious

Sorry about that. I'll be back on form next time.

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Post by wow_junky Fri 20 May 2011, 3:57 pm

azania wrote:Sorry about that. I'll be back on form next time.

Start a thread about how RJJ will KO Monzon at 160lb, that will do the job!

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Fri 20 May 2011, 5:21 pm

Comfortable win for Pep in this one, Arguello while great at Featherweight was at his best at the higher weights and it's worth remembering that he was comfortably beaten by one of favourite under rated fighters Ernesto Marcel whom whilst skillful wasn't comparable to the great Willie Pep. The speed and evasiveness of Pep will be far too much for Arguello who will for the most part be hitting thin air, the way to beat Pep is to rough him up and even then I don't think a pre plan crash can be beaten at featherweight.

Pep by UD

147-141
147-141
146-141

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Fri 20 May 2011, 6:21 pm

HumanWindmill wrote:I'm sorry to say that, not for the first time, I find myself cleaning up unnecessary mess on other threads rather than being able to enjoy discussing boxing. Therefore, I cannot go into as much detail as I would like, and I am delighted to see that captain carrantuohil has very eloquently and thoroughly covered all the bases for me, and then some.

Pep, over the long route, for me.

Far be it from me to tell you what to do Windy but why not just temporarily ban all those causing agro?

I have no one talk to on here at this time, missing your input

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Post by azania Fri 20 May 2011, 7:06 pm

wow_junky wrote:
azania wrote:Sorry about that. I'll be back on form next time.

Start a thread about how RJJ will KO Monzon at 160lb, that will do the job!

No need to start a thread on something so obvious.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Fri 20 May 2011, 7:10 pm

Can we stay on topic

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