Are the Unions damaging Labour's chance of election in 2015?

The multitude of examples of disgraceful behaviour by Trade Unions over the past year have really started to show them up as the evil bully-boys they are.

Latest example being the vicious targeting of the wives and children of Ineos managers:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24758166

Question is, will this start to hurt Labour's chances of election in 2015?

Clearly formerly 'Red' Ed is concerned as he's taken steps to distance himself from both their antics and the Unions themselves, surely all this negativity will have to bite at some point? This could be the last thing Labour's already dwindling opinion poll leads need - could 2014 be the year of the turning point re public opinion or the main two parties??

Labour will win the next election, simples.

Let's hope so and let's hope not

Champagne_Socialist wrote:Labour will win the next election, simples.

That would certainly finish off the United Kingdom and the British Empire.

Oh my poor, sweet Britannia, what have they done to you?

Duty281 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:Labour will win the next election, simples.

That would certainly finish off the United Kingdom and the British Empire.

Oh my poor, sweet Britannia, what have they done to you?

Who do you want to win?

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:Labour will win the next election, simples.

That would certainly finish off the United Kingdom and the British Empire.

Oh my poor, sweet Britannia, what have they done to you?

Who do you want to win?

In an ideal world, UKIP. Mind you, any rational person can see that their aim will be just to get a couple of MPs.

So hopefully the Conservatives.

Duty281 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:Labour will win the next election, simples.

That would certainly finish off the United Kingdom and the British Empire.

Oh my poor, sweet Britannia, what have they done to you?

Who do you want to win?

In an ideal world, UKIP. Mind you, any rational person can see that their aim will be just to get a couple of MPs.

So hopefully the Conservatives.

so you are happy with what they are doing now?

The Tories have a big problem.............

1. Gordon Brown was a huge negative for Labour......The economy was a complete mess and they still couldn't WIN the Election.........

2. In Three and a half years they've done very little to dispel the notion that they are in it for themselves and their Mates.......They don't seem able to detoxify...

3. Lord Ashcroft's marginal polling shows the Labour lead is double the size in marginals as 2010 Liberals have shown intent to vote to keep the Tories out.......

4. Standard of living isn't improving with the economy..........

5. Miliband's energy freeze whatever it's virtues has been a masterstroke......

6. Miliband's leadership ratings are now just a couple of points behind Cameron's and Cameron is the Tory's biggest positive........

7. In a recent UKIP poll.........A percentage of 2010 Tory switchers have said they won't go back because they think Cameron wants a coalition post 2015 and isn't a proper Tory anyway..........In other words he's not a right wing nut.

8. Unions don't play in Elections anymore............a) They aren't as strong as they used to be.....b) Job security, NHS, Economy, Standard of living, Education, Immigration and Europe come higher up in voters thoughts.........

It's the middle/working class that decide elections..............

The economy is going to improve but the problem for True blue is that they haven't detoxified from last time when people like me wouldn't vote for brown...........

I'll be voting Labour next time as will others I'm sure.............

At least ten seats have less than a 200 majority..........Labour needs to take 20 odd off the Tories to be the largest party...........

The Tories got 37% last time............Labour with the left wing Liberal vote haven't been under 36% since 2011............and Labour only need to be 5 points behind on the current system to be the largest party..........

Be an optimist to think the Tories get a majority in 2015 and an even bigger one to think the Unions will have any affect on the outcome........

Home is where the heart is when it comes to voting.........

Will people feel better off in 2015 than 2010 with all this austerity and energy rises......??

The Tories better hope so to have any chance at all............

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:Labour will win the next election, simples.

That would certainly finish off the United Kingdom and the British Empire.

Oh my poor, sweet Britannia, what have they done to you?

Who do you want to win?

In an ideal world, UKIP. Mind you, any rational person can see that their aim will be just to get a couple of MPs.

So hopefully the Conservatives.

so you are happy with what they are doing now?

Mostly. Defecit has been cut. Unemployment is down. Borrowing is down. Economy is growing.

Not a perfect job, but Britain is at last turning the corner. Slowly.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The Tories have a big problem.............

1. Gordon Brown was a huge negative for Labour......The economy was a complete mess and they still couldn't WIN the Election.........

2. In Three and a half years they've done very little to dispel the notion that they are in it for themselves and their Mates.......They don't seem able to detoxify...

3. Lord Ashcroft's marginal polling shows the Labour lead is double the size in marginals as 2010 Liberals have shown intent to vote to keep the Tories out.......

4. Standard of living isn't improving with the economy..........

5. Miliband's energy freeze whatever it's virtues has been a masterstroke......

6. Miliband's leadership ratings are now just a couple of points behind Cameron's and Cameron is the Tory's biggest positive........

7. In a recent UKIP poll.........A  percentage of 2010 Tory switchers have said they won't go back because they think Cameron wants a coalition post 2015 and isn't a proper Tory anyway..........In other words he's not a right wing nut.

8. Unions don't play in Elections anymore............a) They aren't as strong as they used to be.....b) Job security, NHS, Economy, Standard of living, Education, Immigration and Europe come higher up in voters thoughts.........

It's the middle/working class that decide elections..............

The economy is going to improve but the problem for True blue is that they haven't detoxified from last time when people like me wouldn't vote for brown...........

I'll be voting Labour next time as will others I'm sure.............

At least ten seats have less than a 200 majority..........Labour needs to take 20 odd off the Tories to be the largest party...........

The Tories got 37% last time............Labour with the left wing Liberal vote haven't been under  36% since 2011............and Labour only need to be 5 points behind on the current system to be the largest party..........

Be an optimist to think the Tories get a majority in 2015 and an even bigger one to think the Unions will have any affect on the outcome........

Home is where the heart is when it comes to voting.........

Will people feel better off in 2015 than 2010 with all this austerity and energy rises......??

The Tories better hope so to have any chance at all............

Very good comment and is probably a truthful opinion of how the majority of the country will think and will act in the 2015 election.

The conservatives have not won an election since 1992 and since then they have had some major batterings and even in 2010 when the labour party's reputation was in the drain the Conservatives still could not win the election and could not gain a majority.

I can't see the conservatives winning in 2015 and the next election is in 2020 which will be 28 years since the conservatives last won. It could be that the conservatives dont win an election for 30/40 years and that seems a probability considering UKIP's uprise in support will take away conservative support and the lib dems losing support will add to labours support.

Labour's lead is down to 6%, and it's shrinking all the time. Will be another hung parliament - no one's winning in 2015.

Duty281 wrote:Labour's lead is down to 6%, and it's shrinking all the time. Will be another hung parliament - no one's winning in 2015.

Come 2015 and the Lib Dems will be wiped out, labour's votes will go up and conservatives will go down.

Labour shouldn't be anywhere near winning the next election - if only some of the British public had longer memories.

What is it red Ed says? "Britain can do better than this."

Well Cameron got it right at PMQs yesterday when he said: "Britain can do better than that lot."

Trussman is going to vote Labour and that is good enough for me to vote Labour.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:Labour will win the next election, simples.

Based on...........??

They haven't a cat in hells chance of a majority, so who are they going to get in bed with??

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The Tories have a big problem.............

1. Gordon Brown was a huge negative for Labour......The economy was a complete mess and they still couldn't WIN the Election.........

2. In Three and a half years they've done very little to dispel the notion that they are in it for themselves and their Mates.......They don't seem able to detoxify...

3. Lord Ashcroft's marginal polling shows the Labour lead is double the size in marginals as 2010 Liberals have shown intent to vote to keep the Tories out.......

4. Standard of living isn't improving with the economy..........

5. Miliband's energy freeze whatever it's virtues has been a masterstroke......

6. Miliband's leadership ratings are now just a couple of points behind Cameron's and Cameron is the Tory's biggest positive........

7. In a recent UKIP poll.........A  percentage of 2010 Tory switchers have said they won't go back because they think Cameron wants a coalition post 2015 and isn't a proper Tory anyway..........In other words he's not a right wing nut.

8. Unions don't play in Elections anymore............a) They aren't as strong as they used to be.....b) Job security, NHS, Economy, Standard of living, Education, Immigration and Europe come higher up in voters thoughts.........

It's the middle/working class that decide elections..............

The economy is going to improve but the problem for True blue is that they haven't detoxified from last time when people like me wouldn't vote for brown...........

I'll be voting Labour next time as will others I'm sure.............

At least ten seats have less than a 200 majority..........Labour needs to take 20 odd off the Tories to be the largest party...........

The Tories got 37% last time............Labour with the left wing Liberal vote haven't been under  36% since 2011............and Labour only need to be 5 points behind on the current system to be the largest party..........

Be an optimist to think the Tories get a majority in 2015 and an even bigger one to think the Unions will have any affect on the outcome........

Home is where the heart is when it comes to voting.........

Will people feel better off in 2015 than 2010 with all this austerity and energy rises......??

The Tories better hope so to have any chance at all............

Predictable response. Only thing missing was a 'pasty' tax quip.

Failure to acknowledge how good the last 6-9 months have been for the Tories and conveniently ignoring how bad they've been for Labour demonstrates blind ignorance and a refusal to take a balanced view.

Basically every indicator is pointing in Tories favour at the moment and Labour are having a dismal time with their poll leads diminishing and some terrible PR - particularly regarding the Unions rigging elections.

Like it or not the Tories pick their battles smarter than Labour, they've hit people hardest in the cohort least likely to vote and with policies that are actually slightly sensationalist and will win them some votes on top.

Through in a few useful socialist ditties like the fact the rich are paying more tax now than they ever were under the previous Labour administration and, with over 12 months to go, there's no reason momentum can't be built.

Hung parliament is where I'd put my money. Nobody is likeable enough to win outright.

Top Hat

Agree with your last sentence as things stand at present.

Labour are doing everything in their power to blow the the advantage that they built up during the economic flat-lining. The Union actions at Grangemouth and previously with the Falkirk candidate selection have hurt the party's image, and I think people still find Ed Milliband hard to warm to (politics in the post-Blair era being as much about likeability as ability). At the moment, I think 2015 is their election to lose (in the same way that 2010 was the Conservatives to lose), but they seem to be doing a good job in doing so.

The Conservatives have their own issues - the unpopularity of Osbourne in particular. They are however in a position that is likely to become stronger because the economy has finally turned a corner and people's pay packets and general well-being are likely to increase over the next 18 months up to the election. Also, because of their coalition with the Lib Dems they are in a position where they can argue (probably unfairly, but this is politics) that the good things are the results of the Tory influence and the bad things are the Lib Dems interfering...
Cameron needs to ditch Osbourne and the odious Gove and probably move the Conservatives a bit to the right (to head off any significant defection to UKIP).

I suspect when it comes to the General Election the Lib Dems won't do quite as badly as the current polls suggest, although I suspect Clegg will be sacked and Vince Cable be their leader, at least for the short term, through 2015 - this change and the fact that they will be campaiging as a separate entity and not as part of a fundamaentaly Conservative government should put them up a bit. I still think they will pick up votes from the 'neither of the above' voters, although not to the extent that they did in 2010 (the problem is who else is a credible alternative for moderates: UKIP? Greens?).

I suspect most of the Tory right will hold their noses and vote for a Cameron-led Conservative party rather than UKIP, in the hope that it prevents an outright Labour win.

Another great post, Dummy, well reasoned and balanced - something I often struggle with! lol

Born in London, Miliband graduated from Corpus Christi College, Oxford, and the London School of Economics, becoming first a television journalist and then a Labour Party researcher, before rising to become one of Chancellor Gordon Brown's confidants and Chairman of HM Treasury's Council of Economic Advisers.

Basically he steered the ship on to the rocks. I will leave the country if this boobie gets in.

seanmichaels wrote:Born in London, Miliband graduated from Corpus Christi College, Oxford, and the London School of Economics, becoming first a television journalist and then a Labour Party researcher, before rising to become one of Chancellor Gordon Brown's confidants and Chairman of HM Treasury's Council of Economic Advisers.

Basically he steered the ship on to the rocks. I will leave the country if this boobie gets in.

I understand if you don't like him, seany, but what does posting his CV have to do with anything?

Well, the latter part of it is important if you consider Ed instrumental in Labour leading us into the greatest recession in a century.

TopHat24/7 wrote:Well, the latter part of it is important if you consider Ed instrumental in Labour leading us into the greatest recession in a century.

That's just it though isn't it. Its not a balanced appraisal of anything. Its just sniping. Its like pulling apart a boxers record, easy to do from whatever agenda you're coming with.

Someone (not me, I am with Dave in that most of them have their fat bloated snouts in the same trough, irrespective of what side they play for) could just as easily say that reckless and incompetent banking stemming from weak and negligent regulation was the route cause of the 'greatest recession in a century'. Weak and negligent regulation that it could be argued came from previous Tory administrations who took the breaks off the City. Conservative governments that would, presumably, have all agreed that heavier regulation would stifle innovation and aspiration. The City was given a free hand a long time before 1997.

You may disagree but I don't think a Tory government would have made much of a difference to what happened in the 5 or 6 years ago. It was an exception set of circumstances that brought the financial world to its knees. You're guessing as much as me if you think that Conservative Governments from '97 onwards would have made much difference. They would have enjoyed those 'boom' years as much as anyone.

Hey, don't shoot the messenger, wasn't my argument!

Re you're second para though, the Blair/Brown administrations were very very clear that they actively pursued a policy of deregulation and freeing up the City with a 'light-touch/hands-off' approach. So whilst the previous Tories may have taken the breaks off those no way you can lay the blame at their door for something Labour actively targeted as a key economic policy.

Am not laying all the blame at Labour's door either, just think Labour get away (a lot) with the whole socialist 'party of the people/worker/little man' schtick when actually, especially under Blair, they followed some quite Tory-esque free-market thinking (which is why I voted for them at the time).

I wasn't trying to come across as snotty, TopHat, so apologies if my post read like that.  Always hard to judge tone on a forum.

I agree that Labour pursued a ‘light touch’ policy.  I’m not arguing that they are not complicit in the problems, just that things can always be traced back along whatever line fits an agenda.  It is more an observation on the double standards that usually get applied to politics.  People get very emotional about it and that in itself is not a bad thing, on the contrary it is nice to see some passion now and again, but it often clouds peoples judgement of what the reality is.

Just posting his career and then ripping off a cheap Phil Collins/Sun headline doesn’t really add anything.

The problem with allowing the general public to vote is that the vast majority (and I include myself in that) do not understand the policies of the respective parties in enough detail to understand how they will impact our day to day living. People earning millions of pounds fail to grasp what is happening with government, what chance does he average man have.

For me it is important to keep out the racist and happy clappy hippy parties, and other than that I really don't think I would notice any real difference in my day to day life.

I probably won't vote, I can't be bothered.

As others have said not really sure the Unions are more ruinous to Labour than the likes of Osborne are to the tories. Personally think the main problem Labour have is Miliband. Personally have nothing against the guy and anyone who hates the Daily Mail as much as him is alright with me, however whilst this is not the most scientific of comments there is just something about him that seems very un-prime ministerish, he is very much like Kinnock in that respect. Whilst this should not be a massive factor as Tina said post Blair politics has become increasingly about image and a popularity contest, rightly or wrongly.

The real tragedy is this does seem a winnable election for Labour. One has to think UKIP will pick up a chunk of votes and common sense suggests this will eat into tory votes far more than it will labour. Also you do get the impression a lot of traditional liberal voters still hold a grudge for the party getting into bed with the Conservatives and also for their complete capitulation on tuition fees. Would also have to think these would defect to labour far more naturally than they would the tories. However despite all this even as a committed Labour voter I struggle to conjure the image of Prime Minister Miliband.

Lumbering_Jack wrote:
I probably won't vote, I can't be bothered.

It should be compulsory.

Rowley wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:
I probably won't vote, I can't be bothered.

It should be compulsory.

Even if they don't know what they are voting for?

Yes, if you don't know who to vote for or don't feel any party is representative of your views you should go and spoil your ballot paper. Being allowed to vote and decide in who runs the country you live in is one of the most wonderful gifts you can have and the cornerstone of living in a democracy, a priviledge people the world over would dearly love to have and fight tooth and nail to be granted. We have it and don't exercise it because we can't be arsed.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:I wasn't trying to come across as snotty, TopHat, so apologies if my post read like that.  Always hard to judge tone on a forum.

I agree that Labour pursued a ‘light touch’ policy.  I’m not arguing that they are not complicit in the problems, just that things can always be traced back along whatever line fits an agenda.  It is more an observation on the double standards that usually get applied to politics.  People get very emotional about it and that in itself is not a bad thing, on the contrary it is nice to see some passion now and again, but it often clouds peoples judgement of what the reality is.

Just posting his career and then ripping off a cheap Phil Collins/Sun headline doesn’t really add anything.

No worries, it wasn't that it was snotty at all, I was just making the point that I wasn't trying to make Sean's case myself, just offering an explanation as to what I thought the point he was trying to make may have been. Clear as mud...??

Rowley wrote:Yes, if you don't know who to vote for or don't feel any party is representative of your views you should go and spoil your ballot paper. Being allowed to vote and decide in who runs the country you live in is one of the most wonderful gifts you can have and the cornerstone of living in a democracy, a priviledge people the world over would dearly love to have and fight tooth and nail to be granted. We have it and don't exercise it because we can't be arsed.

I'd rather a game for my PS3 to be honest.

Is it a democratic right not to vote?

It is a democratic right not to vote. However turning up and spoiling your paper exercises that right.

Rowley wrote:It is a democratic right not to vote. However turning up and spoiling your paper exercises that right.

But what does that achieve, other than wasting paper and your own time?

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

Rowley wrote:It is a democratic right not to vote. However turning up and spoiling your paper exercises that right.

But what does that achieve, other than wasting paper and your own time?

Lumbering_Jack wrote:I'd rather a game for my PS3 to be honest.

What does that achieve other than wasting electricity and your own time?

He's deriving something from his PS3 though - pleasure.

Same as someone might derive something from spoiling their paper - satisfaction.

Both are measures of utility.

Spoiling your paper is a political statement that cannot be misinterpreted and as such registers your dissatisfaction far more effectively than staying the sofa. Realise I am in very much the minority view on this one, but in reality the election is once every four years at the maximum and most polling stations are extremely local and open a long time. In reality it takes very little effort to attend and register your vote or otherwise.

Just the tree hugging liberal in me but think it is deeply offensive when we have a right countless people the world over are fighting and dying for that the bulk of us can't even be arsed to get off the settee and use that right.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

Rowley wrote:It is a democratic right not to vote. However turning up and spoiling your paper exercises that right.

But what does that achieve, other than wasting paper and your own time?

Lumbering_Jack wrote:I'd rather a game for my PS3 to be honest.

What does that achieve other than wasting electricity and your own time?

Could ask the same question about this place sometimes.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

Rowley wrote:It is a democratic right not to vote. However turning up and spoiling your paper exercises that right.

But what does that achieve, other than wasting paper and your own time?

Lumbering_Jack wrote:I'd rather a game for my PS3 to be honest.

What does that achieve other than wasting electricity and your own time?

I understand my PS3 better than I do the hundreds of government policies.

I honestly don't think I would notice any difference in my life if any of the main 3 were in charge.

Rowley wrote:Spoiling your paper is a political statement that cannot be misinterpreted and as such registers your dissatisfaction far more effectively than staying the sofa. Realise I am in very much the minority view on this one, but in reality the election is once every four years at the maximum and most polling stations are extremely local and open a long time. In reality it takes very little effort to attend and register your vote or otherwise.

Just the tree hugging liberal in me but think it is deeply offensive when we have a right countless people the world over are fighting and dying for that the bulk of us can't even be arsed to get off the settee and use that right.

Don't worry, I realise you portray me as the Nazi to your tree-hugger but on this we are united. This'll be the third GE I'm eligible to vote in and the third i'll doing exactly that.

Rowley wrote:Spoiling your paper is a political statement that cannot be misinterpreted and as such registers your dissatisfaction far more effectively than staying the sofa. Realise I am in very much the minority view on this one, but in reality the election is once every four years at the maximum and most polling stations are extremely local and open a long time. In reality it takes very little effort to attend and register your vote or otherwise.

Just the tree hugging liberal in me but think it is deeply offensive when we have a right countless people the world over are fighting and dying for that the bulk of us can't even be arsed to get off the settee and use that right.

I certainly agree with you.

Bloody hell a political thread where I have both Duty and Top Hat agreeing with me. I am worried.

Rowley wrote:Bloody hell a political thread where I have both Duty and Top Hat agreeing with me. I am worried.

Are you lurching to the right?

Rowley wrote:Bloody hell a political thread where I have both Duty and Top Hat agreeing with me. I am worried.

United in democracy, if not in politics.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

Rowley wrote:Bloody hell a political thread where I have both Duty and Top Hat agreeing with me. I am worried.

Are you lurching to the right?

Am considering shaving the beard when I get home. All except a strategically placed little bit just below the nose.

It's more fun to be on the right...honest.

I don't even dress to the right.

It's the share that's most important...........

Labour's share regardless of lead is between 36-40 constantly............regardless of economy and other factors.......

The lead may be 6 - 10 % .................Don't matter because Labour is solid at 36........

36 is enough...............

A lot of Tories on here who predictably mock.................Unfortunately the Tories could only get 37% last time with everything going for them.........

But keep dreaming.

Labour's to lose.................Also worth remembering the Euro's are next May.........and If UKip win or Labour do and UKIp come second.........

It only takes 47 Tory mps to force a leadership election........A lot of marginal Tories !!

I'm happy with the Labour situation at the moment.............The Tories have been defined as only in it for themselves and their Mates...........Miliband has been defined as weak.........People however vote with their pocket and standard of living has gone down........and with energy rising their pockets won't be full in 18 months...........

Prediction Tories 38%.......Labour 35%..........Libs 15 %...................Lab/Lib coalition with Tim Farron leading the Liberals.........

Maybe predictable to some................But my honest opinion..............

I think a lot will depend on the TV debates - out of the four main party leaders (Cameron, Clegg, Miliband, Farage), only Farage has natural charisma. That'll come off very well to the British public....if he gets on the debates. If he doesn't, then I'm inclined to agree with Truss' prediction of a Lib Lab coalition.

If he does get on the debate - Tory Ukip coalition...possibly.

I can dream.

At least you can offer a different opinion without being silly Duty.......

You think Farage will be invited ??.

SKY won't have him........BBC/ITV might..........

I don't see how Tory/UKIP would work.......They won't win any seats..............Unless they have joint Tory/ukip candidates......and in that case you'll struggle to get 2010 liberal defectors........