Wales v South Africa: Warren Gatland rejects Rolland meeting

'Coach Warren Gatland will ignore protocol and not meet referee Alain Rolland before Wales' match against South Africa on Saturday.'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/24814317

What the chuff?!

I really hope there's no truth to this. Surely the idea is to do everything you can to get the ref on side before a match, not set him against you?

Psychology 101.

Of course he will meet with Rolland, but first he has to publicly announce he isn't over the Warburton Red card, then when he goes into the meeting he hopes to have the "guilt trip" advantage over Rolland, it might backfire though.  

I think Rolland is the last referee to try this kind of thing with. He knows his own mind, let's put it that way.

Says a lot about the man imo, Gatland is a fool.  

I'm not a huge fan of Warburton's as a player (decent bloke that he is) but even he admits that Rolland was right to send him off.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/24814317

I agree(about Rolland not being a good candidate for a guilt trip), but there is no quote from Gatland so maybe this is not true?

No smoke without fire.

Just another dull mind game from Gatland as he knows the crowd will be on the Refs back from the first whistle.

He should be fined.

Going to be a seriously hostile environment in the Millennium for Rolland.

Talk about walking into the Lions den.

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:Going to be a seriously hostile environment in the Millennium for Rolland.

Why, he made the correct call back in 2011.

Rolland is still one of the best Refs in the game, maybe the crowd should focus on getting behind their team against the Boks and the coach should stop trying to cause trouble before a major game for his team.

Gatland has to be handed a fine from the IRB for this.

I agree that he made the right call in 2011, but I disagree that he's still one of the best referees in the game.

He is.

probably not the best but far from the worst!

bar Nigel Owens and one or two of the new refs from Wales or England I have seen officiating recently (cant remember their names), am struggling to find an european referee I would rate above Rolland

Well he is on a panel of elite refs, has reffed a world cup final, his fitness is up there with the best of any refs so he is a good ref. Some people just dont like how he calls everything by the rule book.

However, if all refs did this the game would probably be better for it.

Currently I don't think any referee wants to be touted as te best in the game, it only takes one match to be vilified.  

GunsGerms wrote:Well he is on a panel of elite refs, has reffed a world cup final, his fitness is up there with the best of any refs so he is a good ref. Some people just dont like how he calls everything by the rule book.

However, if all refs did this the game would probably be better for it.

I agree, Refs have good and bad days like the rest of us but at least you know what you are getting if Rolland is in charge, he doesn't suffer fools and he goes by the book.

Biltong wrote:Currently I don't think any referee wants to be touted as te best in the game, it only takes one match to be vilified.  

Yes true. I think more could be done to standardise the rules and make their job easier.

that's was a moment of madness by Sam . we all had them mine was telling the bosses son to f**k off and offer him outside at a works Christmas party . five years later hes my boss now   by the book it was a sending off but i wish he have a yellow for the good of the sport and for Wales . we would have been in a world cup final . . well properly

We should still have won, even with Warburton off. Rolland didn't miss any kicks at goal. We'll never get a better chance of making a World Cup final.

Jimmy,
I guess Xmas alcohol madness may have been involved, did he not card you for that ?
Sounds like your new boss is fair minded keeping you on.

Gatland probably thinks that all ref meetings are a waste of valuable time. None of them do what they say they will do. Good on him.

Kind of contradictory on this thread. People who are criticising Gatland without a direct quote are the ones at fault here. Headline readers. There's people on here saying you know what you get with Rolland, well then why does Gatland need to meet him, as he already knows how the game will be refereed?

gregortree wrote:Jimmy,
I guess Xmas alcohol madness may have been involved, did he not card you for that ?
Sounds like your new boss is fair minded keeping you on.

   we best of mates now . surprising how much tongue action can build bridges

Risca Rev wrote: There's people on here saying you know what you get with Rolland, well then why does Gatland need to meet him, as he already knows how the game will be refereed?

As it's the decent thing to do.

Scrumpy wrote:

Risca Rev wrote: There's people on here saying you know what you get with Rolland, well then why does Gatland need to meet him, as he already knows how the game will be refereed?

As it's the decent thing to do.

  it usually starts with a quote from an inside source . made up then .

I am gutted it is Rolland as ref. He was ref at PYS this weekend and I hoped it would be the last time I had to suffer him. I can't ever think of a match where the ref has carded two opposition players before, and we have won, and I stil walk out cursing how he was trying to rob us of the game.

Pre 2011, he was a top ref. In the RWC I think he probably made the right call too. However, since then he seems to have little or no confidence. He tends to rely on his touch judges to make decisions for him, and also appears to go into matches almost knowing which team should win and seems to ref accordingly.

I personally don't think that the crowd getting on his back will make any difference to him, and if anything, I do think it will make him less likely to award the 50-50 calls in our favour. However, I do believe there will be a massive panto-style boo when he comes on the pitch, and every time he awards a pen/free kick/scrum to the South Africans, and the annoying 'ironic' cheer when he gives anything our way.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I am gutted it is Rolland as ref.  He was ref at PYS this weekend and I hoped it would be the last time I had to suffer him.  I can't ever think of a match where the ref has carded two opposition players before, and we have won, and I stil walk out cursing how he was trying to rob us of the game.

Pre 2011, he was a top ref.  In the RWC I think he probably made the right call too.  However, since then he seems to have little or no confidence.  He tends to rely on his touch judges to make decisions for him, and also appears to go into matches almost knowing which team should win and seems to ref accordingly.

I personally don't think that the crowd getting on his back will make any difference to him, and if anything, I do think it will make him less likely to award the 50-50 calls in our favour.  However, I do believe there will be a massive panto-style boo when he comes on the pitch, and every time he awards a pen/free kick/scrum to the South Africans, and the annoying 'ironic' cheer when he gives anything our way.

IMO it is good to get Rolland when you are playing SA. SA are probably more likely to be over physical and Rolland will penalise this if he think a line is crossed. Would you rather play SA with a ref that allows SA to beat your team up because they would if the ref let them.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I am gutted it is Rolland as ref.  He was ref at PYS this weekend and I hoped it would be the last time I had to suffer him.  I can't ever think of a match where the ref has carded two opposition players before, and we have won, and I stil walk out cursing how he was trying to rob us of the game.

Pre 2011, he was a top ref.  In the RWC I think he probably made the right call too.  However, since then he seems to have little or no confidence.  He tends to rely on his touch judges to make decisions for him, and also appears to go into matches almost knowing which team should win and seems to ref accordingly.

I personally don't think that the crowd getting on his back will make any difference to him, and if anything, I do think it will make him less likely to award the 50-50 calls in our favour.  However, I do believe there will be a massive panto-style boo when he comes on the pitch, and every time he awards a pen/free kick/scrum to the South Africans, and the annoying 'ironic' cheer when he gives anything our way.

Love the Millennium crowd. Cowboy hats, old farts, booing and all. Theatre and panto rolled into one. Rolland cast as the perfect villain.

If this is true....

Then I think Gatland has let himself down basically.  And that’s for him to have to deal with.  Rather than respect that refs make decisions he’s gone and made it a little bit personal.  That’s probably a reflection of him as an individual.

GunsGerms wrote:IMO it is good to get Rolland when you are playing SA. SA are probably more likely to be over physical and Rolland will penalise this if he think a line is crossed. Would you rather play SA with a ref that allows SA to beat your team up because they would if the ref let them.

I doubt that any ref would allow SA to beat the Welsh team up, not even someone as dire as James Jones would allow a team to do that. If you mean that any ref other than Rolland would miss things like diving into rucks dangerously, or tackling with no arms etc, then you must be joking too. I, and probably most people, want a ref that will make a decision that he believes to be true, and that will ref both sides evenly without any pre-judged opinions as to who will be the better scrummager etc messing up his calls.

I appreciate that Rolland is one of your own, and like I said he was a good ref before he seemed to start doubting himself. Being a ref needs someone with self confidence. Steve Walsh may not be a top ref, but when he blows his whistle he knows for sure what he thinks and sticks to it. Rolland seems to be a bit wishy-washy (keeping the panto theme going, just for Cas) since '11, and it is fully understandable, however it has really lowered his stock as a ref.

It's just a little strange that there isn't even a quote directly attributed to him yet. Not even in the Western Fail. Still, doesn't take much for people to start salivating over putting the boot into Sir Warren again though.

True enough, nothing from the man himself yet.

After Carry on Clancy whatever he does will look like genius.

much ado...........

Risca Rev wrote:It's just a little strange that there isn't even a quote directly attributed to him yet. Not even in the Western Fail. Still, doesn't take much for people to start salivating over putting the boot into Sir Warren again though.

He'll handle it Risca...he has a strong hide, that lad.  
And if he does want to cry about it all - he should go see Rolland afterall.  He'll be able to tell Gatland how to calm his nerves when the whole world seems to be against him.  "That a boy, Gatters - me and you, lad - me and you against an ungrateful world"

:posted on wrong thread:  

Are we sure it's about the Warburton incident? Gatland doesn't just have a problem with Irish people now does he?

He bottled it at Warburtongate. The red card may have been the 'right' call but you can't suddenly decide, during a game of that magnitude, that you'll be the one ref on the planet that shows the red for that offence. It would have been the same if he'd suddenly decided to blow the whistle for every crooked feed at scrum time.

It was the out-of-the-blue inconsistency that was so irritating. We'd still have lost, probably.

Presumably there is no IRB rule that states a coach HAS to meet with a ref?

GloriousEmpire wrote:Are we sure it's about the Warburton incident? Gatland doesn't just have a problem with Irish people now does he?

He shouldn't.... he learned all his rugby coaching in Ireland

BUT............................ Gatland holds grudges which fester and twist and curl his gut. So you're right; he doesn't have a problem with us, because we're the very same

Casartelli wrote:He bottled it at Warburtongate.  The red card may have been the 'right' call but you can't suddenly decide, during a game of that magnitude, that you'll be the one ref on the planet that shows the red for that offence.  It would have been the same if he'd suddenly decided to blow the whistle for every crooked feed at scrum time.

It was the out-of-the-blue inconsistency that was so irritating.  We'd still have lost, probably.

Presumably there is no IRB rule that states a coach HAS to meet with a ref?

At the time I really felt for Warburton, and Wales I must say, but Rollands red has opened the door for every ref to have the gumption to use the red when they see fit, I'm not sure that tackle and many more since have been worthy of ruining a game for, and there were certain games before, even during the world cup where exactly the same tackles were yellowed at worst.

It's a shame it happened in a world cup semi final to a smaller nation who struggles come world cup time to impress their love of the game on results, but the game has been better for it since, as have stronger refereeing performances.

Casartelli wrote:He bottled it at Warburtongate.  The red card may have been the 'right' call but you can't suddenly decide, during a game of that magnitude, that you'll be the one ref on the planet that shows the red for that offence.  It would have been the same if he'd suddenly decided to blow the whistle for every crooked feed at scrum time.

It was the out-of-the-blue inconsistency that was so irritating.  We'd still have lost, probably.

Presumably there is no IRB rule that states a coach HAS to meet with a ref?

The red was 'right' but it was 'wrong'?

Wrong because a Welsh player was the perpetrator?  Had it been a SA player.................  Rolland would be getting crates of champagne sent to his dressing room at the weekend. Fact.

The nasty thing about the controversy involving Warburton and Rolland is the inference/implication that the real crime committed by Rolland was that he was "one of our own" (NH/Home Nations etc) who had it in his power to look the other way but chose to kill off Welsh dreams instead.

That's the nasty bit amongst all the Gatts/Rolland fun... that he should have allowed a NH/Home Nation bias to ride the day..given the occasion it was and all that.

Perhaps it's the fact that Gatland has no interest speaking to Rollaind, as he's been reffing for 100 years, and the Welsh management are LITERALLY under no illusions as to how he may/may not referee a game of rugby having seen him do it hundreds of times?

Just a thought.

SecretFly wrote:

Casartelli wrote:He bottled it at Warburtongate.  The red card may have been the 'right' call but you can't suddenly decide, during a game of that magnitude, that you'll be the one ref on the planet that shows the red for that offence.  It would have been the same if he'd suddenly decided to blow the whistle for every crooked feed at scrum time.

It was the out-of-the-blue inconsistency that was so irritating.  We'd still have lost, probably.

Presumably there is no IRB rule that states a coach HAS to meet with a ref?

The red was 'right' but it was 'wrong'?

Wrong because a Welsh player was the perpetrator?  Had it been a SA player.................  Rolland would be getting crates of champagne sent to his dressing room at the weekend. Fact................

Hand on heart, if we won a game, even England at Twickers, in similar circumstances with an opposition player sent off after some inconsistent officiating, then I couldn't enjoy the hollowness.

Unless it was Ashton, obviously.

Sam our Captain

"Warren is at a meeting finding out what the refs are looking for in the autumn. We will meet him and we will know what he’s after."

Shame people are so quick to jump on non stories really.

Again, please send all apologies to Sir Warren Gatland, c/o Welsh Rugby Union, Westgate Street, Cardiff

Casartelli wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Casartelli wrote:He bottled it at Warburtongate.  The red card may have been the 'right' call but you can't suddenly decide, during a game of that magnitude, that you'll be the one ref on the planet that shows the red for that offence.  It would have been the same if he'd suddenly decided to blow the whistle for every crooked feed at scrum time.

It was the out-of-the-blue inconsistency that was so irritating.  We'd still have lost, probably.

Presumably there is no IRB rule that states a coach HAS to meet with a ref?

The red was 'right' but it was 'wrong'?

Wrong because a Welsh player was the perpetrator?  Had it been a SA player.................  Rolland would be getting crates of champagne sent to his dressing room at the weekend. Fact................

Hand on heart, if we won a game, even England at Twickers, in similar circumstances with an opposition player sent off after some inconsistent officiating, then I couldn't enjoy the hollowness.

Unless it was Ashton, obviously.

Too true, do you remember the game V Scotland, when Scott Murray got sent for kicking Gough (even though Gough deserved it and more).  That felt pretty hollow.

I think Gatland has out grown his goldfish bowl (in more ways than one he looks like his put on a few pounds) maybe he should move back to NZ and wait for the AB job.

Scrumpy wrote:I think Gatland has out grown his goldfish bowl (in more ways than one he looks like his put on a few pounds) maybe he should move back to NZ and wait for the AB job.

You'd love that wouldn't you Scrumpy.

Can't beat a bit of hyperbole on a Tuesday afternoon.

Risca Rev wrote:Sam our Captain

"Warren is at a meeting finding out what the refs are looking for in the autumn. We will meet him and we will know what he’s after."

Shame people are so quick to jump on non stories really.

Again, please send all apologies to Sir Warren Gatland, c/o Welsh Rugby Union, Westgate Street, Cardiff

+ 1. People should have more respect for the coach that masterminded the first Lions series win in 16 years.

"masterminded"

A middle ranking AP or Rabo team would have beaten that Aus team.

Risca Rev wrote:Sam our Captain

"Warren is at a meeting finding out what the refs are looking for in the autumn. We will meet him and we will know what he’s after."

Shame people are so quick to jump on non stories really.

Again, please send all apologies to Sir Warren Gatland, c/o Welsh Rugby Union, Westgate Street, Cardiff

It's not a shame...it's fun!

Y'all love what Gatland may or may not bring to a pre-game jamboree. Besides, the real shame, if shame it be, is that the BBC would print the non-story. But then, they know you all love the non-stories too.... so they're just doing their duty, adding seasoning to the game to come.