Rafa Reigns. And We Had Better Get Used To It!

First topic message reminder :

With his defeat of Wawrinka today Nadal has claimed the year end number one position for the third time. I liked the way Neil Harman summed up his article on this in The Times.

No one has reclaimed the No 1 year-end ranking after a three-year hiatus. Rafa reigns. And we had better get used to it again.

Sorry no link as PPV

One of the first to congratulate Nadal was his beaten opponant

Congrats @RafaelNadal for number 1 year end ranking! Amazing year!! And for today's match :-(! #FinalShowdown

https://twitter.com/stanwawrinka

hawkeye wrote:

invisiblecoolers wrote:We live in a world where everything is considered a record, the worst affected sport in this aspect is Cricket, they even give maintain stupid records like

The biggest batting partnership where one partner didn't contribute nothing.
The biggest batting partnership to have ended in a run-out.

Now we see such things jamming Tennis as well.   

Ha ha! invisiblecoolers. I think Neil Harmans "You better get used to it" could very well be aimed at you. You can cover your eyes with your hands all you like and say it isn't much of an achievement. But in tennis Rafa is in the top spot. That's a slightly better achievement than being the non contributing partner in a cricket batting record. If it makes you feel better you don't even have to acknowledge the special circumstances surrounding Nadal re-gaining this spot. So prepare to cover your eyes and ears when some say it may be one of the best comebacks in sport not just tennis (As Tim Henman, Andrew Castle and Sue Barker discussed this week)

Well  HE you have to take into account when you are a true fan of tennis you dont cover your eyes.. others have a more blinkered  opinion in the case of Nadal    

hawkeye wrote:

invisiblecoolers wrote:We live in a world where everything is considered a record, the worst affected sport in this aspect is Cricket, they even give maintain stupid records like

The biggest batting partnership where one partner didn't contribute nothing.
The biggest batting partnership to have ended in a run-out.

Now we see such things jamming Tennis as well.   

Ha ha! invisiblecoolers. I think Neil Harmans "You better get used to it" could very well be aimed at you. You can cover your eyes with your hands all you like and say it isn't much of an achievement.

 

invisiblecoolers wrote:One of the best comebacks I have seen in the history of any sport,  

 
So when IC says Rafa's comeback is one of the best he has seen in any sport, he is actually saying that it isn't much of an achievement?!

JuliusHMarx wrote:

hawkeye wrote:

invisiblecoolers wrote:We live in a world where everything is considered a record, the worst affected sport in this aspect is Cricket, they even give maintain stupid records like

The biggest batting partnership where one partner didn't contribute nothing.
The biggest batting partnership to have ended in a run-out.

Now we see such things jamming Tennis as well.   

Ha ha! invisiblecoolers. I think Neil Harmans "You better get used to it" could very well be aimed at you. You can cover your eyes with your hands all you like and say it isn't much of an achievement.

 

invisiblecoolers wrote:One of the best comebacks I have seen in the history of any sport,  

 
So when IC says Rafa's comeback is one of the best he has seen in any sport, he is actually saying that it isn't much of an achievement?!

The best comeback achievement in any sport? This is where, frankly, it has gone a bit hyperbole. And just because Henman, Barker and Castle have been saying that doesn't really carry much credence. Let's be honest...Henman (and I like Henman), Castle and Barker are all Tennis aficionados who are bound to be biased towards tennis. This is where the context of the 'comeback' has to be looked at. I still think it was amazing and unexpected. But..

He underwent no surgery. Corrective or preventative. It wasn't an acute injury lay-off. His rest was down to a chronic condition he has been playing with for a while. His body underwent no dramatic changes. Was it career threatening. Probably not.

In effect he had an elongated break. All players have been requesting a shorter tour. And a longer rest period. He gave himself this. And then some. He did what players have been crying out for. OK for a little longer. But he could afford to do without it adversely affecting his rankings because he had accumulated so many points in the clay season (obviously). What was the lowest world ranking he went down to? Number 4 or 5? It wasn't like he dropped off the radar! He also missed the part of the season that has habitually been the least rewarding for him.

And that's also the thing. He managed everything about his rest period spectacularly well. Down to the period he missed, to when he came back. Everything he did he managed to his liking.

So he had long rest. Come back on clay and did something he has done before..won shed loads of tournaments and got back to No.1. With all his competitors not at their absolute peak. Federer clearly is well over and past his peak. Murray struggling with his back and consequently taking 4 months of the tour. Leaving only Djokovic tbh. Otherwise...who else do we see a potential Number 1? Who else on the tour has the consistency and the ability to get to No.1 being realistic? Ferrer? Tsonga? Del Potro (Maybe one day but not now)? Berydch? So again I ask, who else has he displaced?

I'll say it again. It was a great comeback..but best ever in sport? Not for me.

Careful, Johnyjeep. The suggestion that Rafa's season was anything less than a heroic triumph against adversity and the odds does not go down well in some parts if this forum!

. It wasn't an acute injury lay-off. His rest was down to a chronic condition he has been playing with for a while. His body underwent no dramatic changes. Was it career threatening. Probably not.
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Incorrect.
As far as the rest of your post is concerned;
The fact that he received the comeback of the year award suggests you are greatly outnumbered in your opinion to which you are perfectly entitled.  But at least get your facts right.

JJ said the comeback was 'great' and 'amazing'. IC said it was one the best in any sport. And yet they still get criticised for not giving it enough credit.

Are you addressing me JM

H-N, both you and HE said IC had blinkers on wrt to Rafa, even though IC said "One of the best comebacks I have seen in the history of any sport".

I said "others" not IC in particular like  your post it  was ambiguous  as  you never referred to that particular comment I assumed you were addressing my last post to JJ when I said he was factually incorrect.. making no reference to the remainder of his opinion.  Could you please be a little more explicit when you are directing your comments... or indeed your criticisms to me please .. would save a lot of confustion.

Ok this is your quite to JJ "The fact that he received the comeback of the year award suggests you are greatly outnumbered in your opinion to which you are perfectly entitled"

JJ's opinion is that it was a 'great' and 'amazing' comeback, but not "best ever in sport". What evidence is there that he is "greatly outnumbered" in that opinion?

Haddie-nuff wrote:. It wasn't an acute injury lay-off. His rest was down to a chronic condition he has been playing with for a while. His body underwent no dramatic changes. Was it career threatening. Probably not.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Incorrect.
As far as the rest of your post is concerned;
The fact that he received the comeback of the year award suggests you are greatly outnumbered in your opinion to which you are perfectly entitled.  But at least get your facts right.

My facts are correct HN. Was it career threatening? No. Why? Did anyone really think Rafa was NEVER going to come back? No. All everyone talked about was WHEN he was going to come back. What injury did he sustain in the Wimbledon match he lost, or later on in practice, that we have not heard about for it to be an acute injury?

Yes, there was plenty of talk about whether he would be the same on his comeback. That is normal when someone comes back from a prolonged lay-off what ever the reason. But it wasn't career threatening.

Yes, from a tennis perspective..comeback of the year. Great. I never said it was anything but great. Bit of shoe-in really.

However..greatest ever in sport?

So other than that my facts were all over the place.

Aaron Ramsey's comeback from having his leg broken clean off virtually, and then spending two your as an internet joke that whenever Ramsey scores a famous person dies and going from there to being the Player of the year so far in the premier league; is a way bigger comeback from a way more devastating injury than what Nadal had. So I don't see anything that historic about Nadal's comeback. I will say that it has been a wonderful comeback, and he has had a very special year. Frankly, I predicted it from the first time I saw him hit a tennis ball down in south America when most of the Nadal fans in here and many others were saying that he was spent force. Hence why they call me Nostrafreakingdamus.

In terms of Tennis I would also rate Haas' return from more devastating injuries than Nadal as a greater comeback as well also when considering that he is 8 years older than Nadal.

socal1976 wrote:Aaron Ramsey's comeback from having his leg broken clean off virtually, and then spending two your as an internet joke that whenever Ramsey scores a famous person dies and going from there to being the Player of the year so far in the premier league; is a way bigger comeback from a way more devastating injury than what Nadal had. So I don't see anything that historic about Nadal's comeback. I will say that it has been a wonderful comeback, and he has had a very special year. Frankly, I predicted it from the first time I saw him hit a tennis ball down in south America when most of the Nadal fans in here and many others were saying that he was spent force. Hence why they call me Nostrafreakingdamus.

Well said Socal. I haven't even thought about putting together a list of better comebacks because its just not worth it.

I rate Muster's or Blake's comeback much higher personally than Nadal's.

He [Nadal] has a history of such comebacks, he has been injured for periods throughout his career.

Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at six o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of 'ot gravel, work twenty hour day at mill for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would thrash us to sleep with a broken bottle, if we were lucky!

 Monty Python

It wasn't the greatest comeback in the history of sport.

But it was a wonderful comeback, and Nadal played some fantastic tennis along the way.

@Cav…

Johnyjeep wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:. It wasn't an acute injury lay-off. His rest was down to a chronic condition he has been playing with for a while. His body underwent no dramatic changes. Was it career threatening. Probably not.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Incorrect.
As far as the rest of your post is concerned;
The fact that he received the comeback of the year award suggests you are greatly outnumbered in your opinion to which you are perfectly entitled.  But at least get your facts right.

My facts are correct HN. Was it career threatening? No. Why? Did anyone really think Rafa was NEVER going to come back? No. All everyone talked about was WHEN he was going to come back. What injury did he sustain in the Wimbledon match he lost, or later on in practice, that we have not heard about for it to be an acute injury?

Yes, there was plenty of talk about whether he would be the same on his comeback. That is normal when someone comes back from a prolonged lay-off what ever the reason. But it wasn't career threatening.

Yes, from a tennis perspective..comeback of the year. Great. I never said it was anything but great. Bit of shoe-in really.

However..greatest ever in sport?

So other than that my facts were all over the place.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/nadal-on-brink-of-oblivion-as-his-greatest-fear-arrives/story-e6frg7mf-1226452902007

The foot injury was not career threatening according to Rafa
http://www.todayszaman.com/news-128202-nadal-says-foot-injury-not-career-threatening.html

Even this article which is head-lined 'career-threatening' contains Rafa's quote "nobody has had to retire with what I have" - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tennis/article-2208011/Rafael-Nadal-interview-struggle-injury.html

Sometimes the headlines sell the story but don't tell the story.

It certainly threatened his ability to come back as well as before and it may also be that if Rafa felt he could only get back into, say, the top 20, because of the injury, he might not come back at all. I guess that depends on the definition of career-threatening. Would we call Delpo's wrist injury career-threatening, or Murray's back surgery?

None of this takes away from the comeback, which has been universally acclaimed and rightly so. Whether it was actually career threatening or not is a rather moot point. The length of time off and the success of the comeback are the most important aspects, I would have thought.

Cav wrote:

Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at six o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of 'ot gravel, work twenty hour day at mill for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would thrash us to sleep with a broken bottle, if we were lucky!

 Monty Python

RIGHT!
I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night half an hour before I went to bed, drink a cup of poison, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad and our mother would kill us and dance about on our graves singing HALLEJUHAH!

I know schadenfreude is not a healthy characteristic, but I can't help myself on this occasion.

Nov 2013: Neil Harman pleases Hawkeye enormously by saying that Rafa reigns and we had better used to it.

July 2014: Rafa displaced as #1 and Neil Harman suspended for plagiarism.

I wonder if Rafa's absence from Canada and Cincy is part of plan to go back to being a "part time" player?

HMD wrote: "I wonder if Rafa's absence from Canada and Cincy is part of plan to go back to being a "part time" player?"

Well let's hope that Neil Harman doesn't become a part-time journalist, as he's been one of the best writers of the sport in recent years.
However, The Times is now in a difficult position over the plagiarism. Nothing wrong is quoting stuff from other people. But you do have to attribute it.

Sir Fred, I think Harman's problem is that he did rather more than quote.

He used large chunks of other people's work and passed it off as his own. There is a little bit on it in this month's Private Eye and it appears to have been going on for years. It was not just a one-off lapse of judgement.

HMM - Yes, I gather this was not an isolated incident. Great pity as he was a good enough writer not to use others. Don't see any way back for him now.

Johnyjeep wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:. It wasn't an acute injury lay-off. His rest was down to a chronic condition he has been playing with for a while. His body underwent no dramatic changes. Was it career threatening. Probably not.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Incorrect.
As far as the rest of your post is concerned;
The fact that he received the comeback of the year award suggests you are greatly outnumbered in your opinion to which you are perfectly entitled.  But at least get your facts right.

My facts are correct HN. Was it career threatening? No. Why? Did anyone really think Rafa was NEVER going to come back? No. All everyone talked about was WHEN he was going to come back. What injury did he sustain in the Wimbledon match he lost, or later on in practice, that we have not heard about for it to be an acute injury?

Yes, there was plenty of talk about whether he would be the same on his comeback. That is normal when someone comes back from a prolonged lay-off what ever the reason. But it wasn't career threatening.

Yes, from a tennis perspective..comeback of the year. Great. I never said it was anything but great. Bit of shoe-in really.

However..greatest ever in sport?

So other than that my facts were all over the place.

All I mentioned in my post is "the greatest comeback I have seen in any sport" and I stick to it.

Yes Haas has made a good a comeback but its nothing as successful as Rafa's was in terms of achievement, for me coming back at the highest level possible deserve more credit than simply a comeback.

There was one more guy in Tennis who came back from coma to play some masters, thats is indeed one of miracle things to happen, but as I said I give more preference to comeback at the highest level than just making a come back.  

@HE I really have no clue what to post on your threads,

If I post my views you call me Hijacking the thread,  
If I credit Rafa you request me to leave the thread  
If I criticize Rafa you are angry at me   

What should I do HE?

^ You are doing just fine   Harman's (or perhaps some other journalists) "we had better get used to it" sets just the right resigned, grumbling tone for any article about a Nadal success or victory. Such a contrast to the "breath of fresh air" that is associated with his losses.

On 606v2 Nadal's wins are greeted with a sort of Oh... dear... he's ... won... again... But when he loses there is merriment and dizzy partying.   His rival gets the opposite reaction and I can't figure out why. Sometimes my curiosity gets the better of me and I have to ask...

Does it not have something to do with their style of play? Federer plays a very pure game whereas Nadal's style is fairly ugly. Obviously there are also concerns about Nadal's gamesmanship and unproven rumours about other issues.

Is that any help at all?

hawkeye wrote:
On 606v2 Nadal's wins are greeted with a sort of Oh... dear... he's ... won... again...

Nonsense. From the RG discussion thread following Rafa's win:

Jahu wrote:Yes Rafaaaaaaa yessss winnnnn

skyeman wrote:Well done to Nadal, the master on clay.

socal1976 wrote:Well it sucks to lose it  by double fault but Nadal really deserves. Best clay courter ever. The crowd was really ridiculous to get involved on that match point on second serve. Nadal was the better player today and maybe the greatest ever.

summerblues wrote:And Rafa does it yet again.  Congrats, he was the better player today so well deserved.

Gerry SA wrote:Congratulations Rafael Nadal. Perhaps the greatest of all time.

laverfan wrote:Congrats to Nadal (and his fans)! Historical achievement. (King of Clay )

Born Slippy wrote:Awesome win for Rafa. Looked like the back was causing him a few problems but he still found a way past Novak. Slam wins in 10 years straight as well which I think is a record.

DJB14 wrote:Unbelievable win for Nadal today, ten years in a row with a slam win is a mightily impressive accolade.

HM Murdoch wrote:

hawkeye wrote:
On 606v2 Nadal's wins are greeted with a sort of Oh... dear... he's ... won... again...

Nonsense. From the RG discussion thread following Rafa's win:

Jahu wrote:Yes Rafaaaaaaa yessss winnnnn

skyeman wrote:Well done to Nadal, the master on clay.

socal1976 wrote:Well it sucks to lose it  by double fault but Nadal really deserves. Best clay courter ever. The crowd was really ridiculous to get involved on that match point on second serve. Nadal was the better player today and maybe the greatest ever.

summerblues wrote:And Rafa does it yet again.  Congrats, he was the better player today so well deserved.

Gerry SA wrote:Congratulations Rafael Nadal. Perhaps the greatest of all time.

laverfan wrote:Congrats to Nadal (and his fans)! Historical achievement. (King of Clay )

Born Slippy wrote:Awesome win for Rafa. Looked like the back was causing him a few problems but he still found a way past Novak. Slam wins in 10 years straight as well which I think is a record.

DJB14 wrote:Unbelievable win for Nadal today, ten years in a row with a slam win is a mightily impressive accolade.

+1