Record Set Straight
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GloriousEmpire
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The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: International
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Record Set Straight
First topic message reminder :
Let's face reality.
Lancaster's England are hugely one dimensional. Build in the model of Woodward's 2003 team, they come straight and hard and without subtlety.
The Backline is plodding at best and rely on recycled quick ball to maintain linear momentum.
Last year a sick All Blacks team weren't up to the physical challenge of the relentless direct approach.
This year, despite fatigue they proved a fit All Blacks team have the muscle to repel the overwhelming route one approach and the finesse to take the chances and score enough tries to win.
For England now a huge challenge. Can they get even *more* physical? Or do they have to change direction totally and look to build a team with more to offer?
Let's face reality.
Lancaster's England are hugely one dimensional. Build in the model of Woodward's 2003 team, they come straight and hard and without subtlety.
The Backline is plodding at best and rely on recycled quick ball to maintain linear momentum.
Last year a sick All Blacks team weren't up to the physical challenge of the relentless direct approach.
This year, despite fatigue they proved a fit All Blacks team have the muscle to repel the overwhelming route one approach and the finesse to take the chances and score enough tries to win.
For England now a huge challenge. Can they get even *more* physical? Or do they have to change direction totally and look to build a team with more to offer?
GloriousEmpire- Posts : 4411
Join date : 2013-01-28
Age : 51
Re: Record Set Straight
I wouldn't go that far.
GloriousEmpire- Posts : 4411
Join date : 2013-01-28
Age : 51
Re: Record Set Straight
England have always relied on a strong pack, today their pack won up front but their backs, Brown aside, are fairly 2nd rate and were shown up by NZ.
As for their display being a la 2003, couldn't be further from the truth…..England's offload game up to 2003 was better even than NZ and Wales.
Lancaster is trying to change the 1 dimension and has changed the point of attack from first receiver to offload to a second recover who carries up. Their retention today was outstanding. But their backs were poor.
They are very good at supporting the first receiver they have yet to adapt their support play.
Hate to admit SCW is right but he is, their needs to be a radical re think behind the scrum, no Tuilagi means England have no midfield.
The sooner Barrit and Tuilagi get back with Wade and Yarde backed by Brown, the sooner England's pack will see some results
As for their display being a la 2003, couldn't be further from the truth…..England's offload game up to 2003 was better even than NZ and Wales.
Lancaster is trying to change the 1 dimension and has changed the point of attack from first receiver to offload to a second recover who carries up. Their retention today was outstanding. But their backs were poor.
They are very good at supporting the first receiver they have yet to adapt their support play.
Hate to admit SCW is right but he is, their needs to be a radical re think behind the scrum, no Tuilagi means England have no midfield.
The sooner Barrit and Tuilagi get back with Wade and Yarde backed by Brown, the sooner England's pack will see some results
Scratch- Posts : 1980
Join date : 2013-11-10
Re: Record Set Straight
Scratch: You probably don't know as you are so new: Glorious Empire is a Kiwi and loathes the English. He originally came on here writing as if he were English and of a particularly overblown facepalm variety. He got caught out (I happened to be there when it happened and remember it well because I'd been suspicious of him too) and now just drips bile. His purpose is not to discuss rugby with you, it's to wind you up.
His tragedy - like so many of his type of whatever nationality - is that he has taken on the qualities he claims to despise. He's become identical to what he hates.
His tragedy - like so many of his type of whatever nationality - is that he has taken on the qualities he claims to despise. He's become identical to what he hates.
Last edited by Cowshot on Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:58 am; edited 1 time in total
Cowshot- Posts : 1513
Join date : 2011-02-14
Location : Kingston-upon-Thames
Re: Record Set Straight
accidental repetition
Last edited by Cowshot on Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:52 am; edited 1 time in total
Cowshot- Posts : 1513
Join date : 2011-02-14
Location : Kingston-upon-Thames
Re: Record Set Straight
England could have played a more expansive game but wit heir current players it's not worth it. The boks leaked 6 tries when they tried to be expansive against NZ who are the masters of open space and counter attack.GloriousEmpire wrote:Anyway. This is about as interesting as England's Backline play. So let's move on.
Given that the men with numbers 11..15 for England were largely irrelevant to this game. What would be the point in blaming the absence of different anonymous under used men to actually explain today's failure in any adequate way?
You do best with what you have. If they had tuilagi they would have used him well, if england had the pace of yarde then they would have used him well.. But Foden is no yarde (the man who skinned ngwenya).
Their game plan held up pretty well... You don't play to your own strengths, you play to your best strategy which maintains you competitive and in the hunt for victory. At the moment with Ashton, Foden as a replacement wing and Tomkins, against NZ it's best to limit their time with the ball out wide and isolated.
fa0019- Posts : 8196
Join date : 2011-07-25
Re: Record Set Straight
DON'T FEED THE TROLLS. Ignore him and he will get fed up of attempting to wind folk up. engage with him you encourage him. His aim is not to talk about rugby its to wind up posters.
TJ- Posts : 8629
Join date : 2013-09-22
Re: Record Set Straight
GE has his plus sides.... This site would be far less active and entertaining without him. Simply don't get emotional, his comments are often baseless and if you treat them with basic fact based retorts he has little place to run.
fa0019- Posts : 8196
Join date : 2011-07-25
Re: Record Set Straight
Nonsense - all you are doing is validating his trolls and feeding his ego. ( as indeed is this post even tho its clear I despise him) The only way to deal with him is to ignore him and to report his trolling. Everytime you answer him you feed his ego and give him the excuse he needs to continue to troll. You will not argue him down with facts. He doesn't care about debate. he simply wants to irritate folk and to suck them into pointless boobie for tat argueing.
Please - for the sake of the forum ignore him
Please - for the sake of the forum ignore him
TJ- Posts : 8629
Join date : 2013-09-22
Re: Record Set Straight
Not the case. I merely don't feel the need to namby pamby around with platitudinous waffle. I'll happily call it as I see it.
England kept it close with some very direct albeit single dimensional play. To win games they'll need to be more creative and expansive and not rely solely on damage limitation.
That's not a WUM or a troll. It's just an opinion. If you don't want to hear it then back to your ostrich pose and talk on about midfield options and taking positives and building nicely and injuries...
England kept it close with some very direct albeit single dimensional play. To win games they'll need to be more creative and expansive and not rely solely on damage limitation.
That's not a WUM or a troll. It's just an opinion. If you don't want to hear it then back to your ostrich pose and talk on about midfield options and taking positives and building nicely and injuries...
GloriousEmpire- Posts : 4411
Join date : 2013-01-28
Age : 51
Re: Record Set Straight
Jeas you talk so much tosh GE.
Either that or you have the reasoning power of a slug.
Look dude this close game only proved that Eng can beat NZ and that last year was not a fluke..
If you want to have a pop at our styles fine- crack on lad.. Its all nonsense and just to make you feel slightly less inferior that you clearly are IRL!
Either that or you have the reasoning power of a slug.
Look dude this close game only proved that Eng can beat NZ and that last year was not a fluke..
If you want to have a pop at our styles fine- crack on lad.. Its all nonsense and just to make you feel slightly less inferior that you clearly are IRL!
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
Join date : 2011-03-06
Age : 47
Location : surrey
Re: Record Set Straight
Don't feed the trolls. Ignore and report.mystiroakey wrote:Jeas you talk so much tosh GE.
Either that or you have the reasoning power of a slug.
Look dude this close game only proved that Eng can beat NZ and that last year was not a fluke..
If you want to have a pop at our styles fine- crack on lad.. Its all nonsense and just to make you feel slightly less inferior that you clearly are IRL!
TJ- Posts : 8629
Join date : 2013-09-22
Re: Record Set Straight
He is here to stay TJ.
If everyone on here had a pact not to talk to him, then count me in.
If everyone on here had a pact not to talk to him, then count me in.
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
Join date : 2011-03-06
Age : 47
Location : surrey
Re: Record Set Straight
England "proved" they can beat NZ by losing? Huh? Who's the slug reasoner here? England didn't look like scoring a try that wasn't a result of a fatty falling in the ball with the help of a little obstruction. Same story as against the Aussies. In order to prove anything they'll have to loosen the reigns of constructive control and I'm afraid that will leave them even more vulnerable defensively.mystiroakey wrote:Jeas you talk so much tosh GE.
Either that or you have the reasoning power of a slug.
Look dude this close game only proved that Eng can beat NZ and that last year was not a fluke..
If you want to have a pop at our styles fine- crack on lad.. Its all nonsense and just to make you feel slightly less inferior that you clearly are IRL!
GloriousEmpire- Posts : 4411
Join date : 2013-01-28
Age : 51
Re: Record Set Straight
England beat NZ last time and matched them this time..
Only just got beat by the better side on the day.
Your reasoning is as valid as a flat earth. you come back saying same story against the Aussies(we beat the Aussies)
I hope you don't believe what you post dude.. That doesn't say much for you
Only just got beat by the better side on the day.
Your reasoning is as valid as a flat earth. you come back saying same story against the Aussies(we beat the Aussies)
I hope you don't believe what you post dude.. That doesn't say much for you
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
Join date : 2011-03-06
Age : 47
Location : surrey
Re: Record Set Straight
How did they match them? They lost. Sorry but that's a fact. Three tries to one.
France didn't celebrate their loss last week. SA didn't celebrate losing at Ellis Park. Australia didn't celebrate losing the BC for another year.
Why must England fans insist on pretending that a loss is a great achievement just because it wasn't a humiliating loss? Is that really how low the bar is set?
It reminds me of that lap of honour in Manchester to be honest.
France didn't celebrate their loss last week. SA didn't celebrate losing at Ellis Park. Australia didn't celebrate losing the BC for another year.
Why must England fans insist on pretending that a loss is a great achievement just because it wasn't a humiliating loss? Is that really how low the bar is set?
It reminds me of that lap of honour in Manchester to be honest.
Last edited by GloriousEmpire on Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
GloriousEmpire- Posts : 4411
Join date : 2013-01-28
Age : 51
Re: Record Set Straight
So the fact is we beat NZ last time, we beat aus this time, nz beat eng this time..
But the only important result is NZ beating Eng.
You do spout some nonsense dont you
But the only important result is NZ beating Eng.
You do spout some nonsense dont you
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
Join date : 2011-03-06
Age : 47
Location : surrey
Re: Record Set Straight
Only one team is celebrating their defeat as some kind of proxy moral victory this AI. Did Wales celebrate their loss to SA as "proof" that they cold beat them? And if they had wouldn't you have been mocking them?mystiroakey wrote:So the fact is we beat NZ last time, we beat aus this time, nz beat eng this time..
But the only important result is NZ beating Eng.
You do spout some nonsense dont you
England beat NZ about once per decade. You've had it last year right on schedule. It's like Halley's Comet. Enjoy the memory and wait for the next one.
Last edited by GloriousEmpire on Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
GloriousEmpire- Posts : 4411
Join date : 2013-01-28
Age : 51
Re: Record Set Straight
"Why must England fans insist on pretending that a loss is a great achievement just because it wasn't a humiliating loss? Is that really how low the bar is set?"
name one person that is doing that? because I can tell you factually we are not celebrating a thing
but yes the Saffas did celebrate there loss, and we dont know anything about the French fans and what they do.
name one person that is doing that? because I can tell you factually we are not celebrating a thing
but yes the Saffas did celebrate there loss, and we dont know anything about the French fans and what they do.
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
Join date : 2011-03-06
Age : 47
Location : surrey
Re: Record Set Straight
"Only one team is celebrating their defeat as some kind of proxy moral victory this AI. Did Wales celebrate their loss to SA as "proof" that they cold beat them? And if they had wouldn't you have been mocking them?"
WE ARE NOT, but the saffas did in there loss to you
What have you got to say to the realities of the situation GE?
WE ARE NOT, but the saffas did in there loss to you
What have you got to say to the realities of the situation GE?
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
Join date : 2011-03-06
Age : 47
Location : surrey
Re: Record Set Straight
Name one person? Well, you fulla. With this "we matched them" and "we proved we can beat them". Sorry but that's just deluded nonsense. You "proved" that you can keep it close and lose by about two scores. And if anything this years result just adds credence to the belief that last years win relied heavily on the ABs being off colour. England offered nothing new.
GloriousEmpire- Posts : 4411
Join date : 2013-01-28
Age : 51
Re: Record Set Straight
Don't feed the troll. You will not persuade him with argument - all he wants to do is suck you into a stupid circular argument or boobie for tat. all you are doing is validating his trolling, allowing him to bask in his idea of a "victory" ie getting you sidetracked into a pointless argument. Just ignore him or post stupid smilies at him
TJ- Posts : 8629
Join date : 2013-09-22
Re: Record Set Straight
that isnt celebrating anything.
We matched an ok side and fell just short.. NZ are not the greatest team, of all time..and that is proven by a pretty make shift/weak england smashing you and then matching you in the last two games
We matched an ok side and fell just short.. NZ are not the greatest team, of all time..and that is proven by a pretty make shift/weak england smashing you and then matching you in the last two games
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
Join date : 2011-03-06
Age : 47
Location : surrey
Re: Record Set Straight
You can't simultaneously "match" and "fall short". You are flattering nz by suggesting there is some acceptable way to lose a game to them.
A win may be a win, but a loss is also that.
England weren't good enough. End of story.
Halley's Comet. Like I said.
A win may be a win, but a loss is also that.
England weren't good enough. End of story.
Halley's Comet. Like I said.
Last edited by GloriousEmpire on Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
GloriousEmpire- Posts : 4411
Join date : 2013-01-28
Age : 51
Re: Record Set Straight
True we wernt good enough . We all except that. We dont have to be the best to enjoy our rugby. We have many other strings to our bows
Last edited by mystiroakey on Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
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Age : 47
Location : surrey
Re: Record Set Straight
TJ - suggest you read the house rules about ensuring posts contribute and add something to a thread and don't merely include "+1" or a
Pointless icon. At the moment you're spamming the board with personal attacks and inane gibberish posts. I'd hate to see you get a ban mate!
Pointless icon. At the moment you're spamming the board with personal attacks and inane gibberish posts. I'd hate to see you get a ban mate!
GloriousEmpire- Posts : 4411
Join date : 2013-01-28
Age : 51
Re: Record Set Straight
lol. After an initial article quoting excuses!GloriousEmpire wrote:Ah the sweet sound of excuses.
No 7&1/2- Posts : 31381
Join date : 2012-10-20
Re: Record Set Straight
GE, i'm guessing from your posts of the last 24 hours that you won't be coming along to drinks on Weds? Shame.
Good game yday. Well played both sides. Game-turning point was hartley banging himself on mccaw's hip, and t youngs conceding 4 lineouts against the throw in the last 20 minutes.
am feeling very positive about where this england side can build to over the next 18months. 340caps yday vs NZ's 800+ caps. lots of upside to hope for.
Good game yday. Well played both sides. Game-turning point was hartley banging himself on mccaw's hip, and t youngs conceding 4 lineouts against the throw in the last 20 minutes.
am feeling very positive about where this england side can build to over the next 18months. 340caps yday vs NZ's 800+ caps. lots of upside to hope for.
quinsforever- Posts : 6765
Join date : 2013-10-10
Re: Record Set Straight
No shame in being optimistic!
Why wouldn't I come along?
Why wouldn't I come along?
GloriousEmpire- Posts : 4411
Join date : 2013-01-28
Age : 51
Re: Record Set Straight
What of you going out on Wednesday? you turning a new leaf. the all blacks finding the new players that can play to the level of its aging side or England becoming the best side again?
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
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Age : 47
Location : surrey
Re: Record Set Straight
Nz were there for the taking. They were yesterdays toast. Until unforced error gifted the game to them. The England young guns will learn and soon be downing old Nz side with ease. Carter and mccaw are spent forces they are on the way down no doubt.
englandglory4ever- Posts : 1635
Join date : 2011-08-04
Location : Brighton, Sussex
Re: Record Set Straight
GloriousEmpire wrote:Ah the sweet sound of excuses.
GloriousEmpire wrote:Last year a sick All Blacks team weren't up to the physical challenge of the relentless direct approach.
Exiledinborders- Posts : 1645
Join date : 2012-03-18
Location : Scottish Borders
Re: Record Set Straight
It is actually very disappointing to see the AB's not being able to blood any youngsters in.. They have decided to (foolishly) think about every game like its there last- therefore have to play the best side week in week out. The problem with the all blacks is this off course- when it comes to the WC and squads are needed they will again be found out as king of the friendlies only.
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
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Re: Record Set Straight
i have logged in late today but it looked you had wound a few people up.GloriousEmpire wrote:No shame in being optimistic!
Why wouldn't I come along?
not me though.
great, i look forwards to seeing you wednesday. and in spite of engl not winning, i'll still buy you the first beer.
quinsforever- Posts : 6765
Join date : 2013-10-10
Re: Record Set Straight
Quins dont be so ridiculas- There is ZERO CHANCE of him being there on wednesday
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
Join date : 2011-03-06
Age : 47
Location : surrey
Re: Record Set Straight
I suspect GE's mummy will not let him out on a school night.quinsforever wrote:i have logged in late today but it looked you had wound a few people up.GloriousEmpire wrote:No shame in being optimistic!
Why wouldn't I come along?
not me though.
great, i look forwards to seeing you wednesday. and in spite of engl not winning, i'll still buy you the first beer.
Exiledinborders- Posts : 1645
Join date : 2012-03-18
Location : Scottish Borders
Re: Record Set Straight
I agree. The thing is, he would then realise that there are real people out there and would feel awkward continuing with his posting style.mystiroakey wrote:Quins dont be so ridiculas- There is ZERO CHANCE of him being there on wednesday
It would be great for the forum if he did turn up.
Cyril- Posts : 7162
Join date : 2012-11-16
Re: Record Set Straight
I go right past on my way home, why wouldn't I? Surely you're not the type to let a bit of in board banter colour your perspective of a person you've never met?mystiroakey wrote:Quins dont be so ridiculas- There is ZERO CHANCE of him being there on wednesday
I'd really like to meet TJ. I want to find out if he can talk and form sentences or if he communicates in pictograms in real life too.
GloriousEmpire- Posts : 4411
Join date : 2013-01-28
Age : 51
Re: Record Set Straight
Charles Piutau, Ben smith, Julean Savea, Aaron Smith, TKB, Luatua, Cruden, Barrett, Ardie Savea, oh the list goes on...mystiroakey wrote:It is actually very disappointing to see the AB's not being able to blood any youngsters in.. They have decided to (foolishly) think about every game like its there last- therefore have to play the best side week in week out. The problem with the all blacks is this off course- when it comes to the WC and squads are needed they will again be found out as king of the friendlies only.
GloriousEmpire- Posts : 4411
Join date : 2013-01-28
Age : 51
Re: Record Set Straight
I honestly 100% dont believe you will come. As you didn't with your previous persona's.GloriousEmpire wrote:I go right past on my way home, why wouldn't I? Surely you're not the type to let a bit of in board banter colour your perspective of a person you've never met?mystiroakey wrote:Quins dont be so ridiculas- There is ZERO CHANCE of him being there on wednesday
I'd really like to meet TJ. I want to find out if he can talk and form sentences or if he communicates in pictograms in real life too.
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
Join date : 2011-03-06
Age : 47
Location : surrey
Re: Record Set Straight
Who??GloriousEmpire wrote:Charles Piutau, Ben smith, Julean Savea, Aaron Smith, TKB, Luatua, Cruden, Barrett, Ardie Savea, oh the list goes on...mystiroakey wrote:It is actually very disappointing to see the AB's not being able to blood any youngsters in.. They have decided to (foolishly) think about every game like its there last- therefore have to play the best side week in week out. The problem with the all blacks is this off course- when it comes to the WC and squads are needed they will again be found out as king of the friendlies only.
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
Join date : 2011-03-06
Age : 47
Location : surrey
Re: Record Set Straight
I'll bring some flash cards for TJ. One with a pint on it. One with a picture of an ape urinating on his own feet for when he's had three. Possibly one with a fist and a broken glass for after the twelf time he's shown the pint card...
GloriousEmpire- Posts : 4411
Join date : 2013-01-28
Age : 51
Re: Record Set Straight
GE - why don't you go away. You are not wanted here with your perpetual trolling. Getting under you skin am I? you repetitive low level unskilled boring dull troll.
Its not big and its not clever to continually troll forums especially when yo are as poor at it as you are
I wish the mods would ban you as they have your previous incarnations.
Its not big and its not clever to continually troll forums especially when yo are as poor at it as you are
I wish the mods would ban you as they have your previous incarnations.
TJ- Posts : 8629
Join date : 2013-09-22
Re: Record Set Straight
That comment tells me pretty clearly that you wont turn up..GloriousEmpire wrote:I'll bring some flash cards for TJ. One with a pint on it. One with a picture of an ape urinating on his own feet for when he's had too many pints. Possibly one with a fist and a broken glass for after the twelf time he's shown the pint card...
You dont know who these people are mate.. Yes I am pretty 100% almost everyone is a decent bloke IRL.. BUt you wouldn't have to balls to say that to someone you are about to meet- that glass will be wrapped around your head mate
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
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Age : 47
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