Ashton should be cited...

by No9 Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:22 am

...and face a ban for bringing football like professional diving into the game of rugby.

Just watching the England All Black highlights on BBC2, and I could not believe how blatant Ashton's dive and claim for a penalty was, and unfortunately given by Jourbert to put England in the lead.

Ashton kicked ahead and then run into the retreating All Black runner. The slow motion shows Ashton look clearly at the player, dip his shoulder and proceed to run at him, then dive to the ground with the following appeal for a penalty.

For a moment I thought I was watching football...

This theatrical performance by Ashton does nothing but make my stomach churn.

He should be made an example before it becomes seen as the norm, as I would the to see this happening as a norm in Rugby as it does and is even coached in football.

On the whole, good performance by England. All Blacks show what class they are, but I think the weight of the concurrent win run, plus pressure of yesterday's game seems to be weighing heavy on them. Just wish Wales had them this year, well would have been nice, if we didn't have so many injuries.

by TJ Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:26 am

Not as bad as Farrells dive and Ashton was blocked - the AB player ran across him not towards the ball. Farrels was much worse in that there was no obstruction

by quinsforever Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:26 am

yawn.

no matter how theatrical ashton's tumble, it was clear cockett obstructed.

try to put your evident personal dislike for ashton aside and have another look at the replay. Hansen was none too happy with crockett either.

reality is though mccaw was impeded just prior. but that doesnt mean crockett's wasnt obstruction too.

by quinsforever Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:27 am

TJ wrote:Not as bad as Farrells dive and Ashton was blocked - the AB player ran across him not towards the ball. Farrels was much worse in that there was no obstruction

farrell ran into a wall. i think we would all fall over if we did that. but the wall, as walls tend to be, was immobile so no obstruction.

by Nachos Jones Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:29 am

He was impeded but certainly made the absolute most of it, very poor. No grounds for citing but this diving culture is beginning to creep into rugby and I really dislike it.

by quinsforever Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:31 am

well if you're going to punish ashton diving then lets start punish anyone appealing for an infringement around the ruck. that piss1s me off far more, and is also far more prevalent than the kick-chase obstruction dive.

by No9 Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:35 am

I think Hansen was more annoyed that a kick able penalty was given, then Crocketts obstruction.

Was it obstruction, I don't agree. Watched it several times, fast and slow motion, and Ashton ran into him. He does not have to get out of Ashton's way.

If Ashton was any good, would have ran round, but he decided to play for the penalty and purposely ran into. That's my point....

He played to win a PENALTY... That's not rugby that's football :-(

Agree with Farells pantomime antics as well. But this is my point, something needs to be done to put an end to these tactics. I'm not anti Ashton, I'm anti Rugby becoming football like in the way players cheat the ref.

by quinsforever Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:41 am

No9 wrote:I think Hansen was more annoyed that a kick able penalty was given, then Crocketts obstruction.

Was it obstruction, I don't agree. Watched it several times, fast and slow motion, and Ashton ran into him. He does not have to get out of Ashton's way.

If Ashton was any good, would have ran round, but he decided to play for the penalty and purposely ran into. That's my point....

He played to win a PENALTY... That's not rugby that's football :-(

Agree with Farells pantomime antics as well. But this is my point, something needs to be done to put an end to these tactics. I'm not anti Ashton, I'm anti Rugby becoming football like in the way players cheat the ref.

if you had started your post with the last sentence it might not be construed as an anti-ashton wum.

players cheat all the time in rugby, infringing, niggling, appealing instead of keeping their mouths shut when only the captain is supposed to talk.

thank goodness we have the TMO able to rule on anything the ref wants to refer to him, in addition to the 2 touch judges. That is what will stop the real cheating and foul play. And the ref needs to penalise the chat and appealing, and off we go. then we can just argue about whether the TMO got the obstruction call right or not Smile

by Nachos Jones Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:42 am

Crockett does not have to get out of the way but in the slow motion replays I have seen, he looked at Ashton and continued running to impede. Ashton could have avoided him, of course but he played for the penalty, like most players would. What upset me was the diving involved, I really hate that.

by Jhamer25 Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:43 am

Shouldn't this thread read

'Ashton should be dropped'
Would make much more sense thumbsup

by Cyril Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:48 am

No idea why Ashton is being singled out (well, actually I do know) when this happens every single game.

No9 wrote:I'm not anti Ashton, I'm anti Rugby becoming football like in the way players cheat the ref.

Players cheat the ref all day long, if they can get away with it. They're applauded for it if they're on your team.

It's also annoying when players running the kick and chase are blocked and it's missed/ignored.

by No9 Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:50 am

If I had started with my last sentence, I dare say it would not have caught the eye and got people to read.

Hence the catch with the heading, few dots to complete the hook of the first line, but the detail in the posting...

It's how any journalist writes, not that I'm a journo....

Anyway, I've played the game at scrum half (bet you couldn't guess that given my sign in name), and I know that "skull duggery" goes on.... Cheating if you are on the wrong side of it. However, there is a point where it becomes completely unacceptable and the professional dive is something that has to be kept out of rugby as it will completely ruin the game.

by quinsforever Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:51 am

i quite like ashton's other professional dive Laugh

been a while since i've seen it in an england shirt though.

by No9 Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:53 am

...oh and Cyril, spot on.... That's why I "picked" on Ashton, because he seems to do it every game at some point...

He's becoming the Klinsman of rugby...

by Cyril Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:55 am

I give up.

This place is full of GE and GE-lite.

by GloriousEmpire Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:55 am

It was a rubbish decision by Joubert. Ashton milked it, ran into the nearest forward and then the howls from twickenham crowd clearly affected Joubert. Weak, weak refereeing.
He should at least have gone to the tmo and confirmed that it was "no enough" obstruction surely? Also it was a rubbish kick and I thought perhaps Ashton had fallen down in embarrassment.

by TJ Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:56 am

by TJ Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:01 am

If you want to make an obstruction obvious run into them and try to push them over - dont dive especially don't dive when there is no obstruction

by Nachos Jones Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:01 am

GE, the biggest fool in all this is surely Crockett? It was a nothing kick and was possibly going to give the AB's some decent field possession so why he felt the need to put himself into a position where Ashton could dive has surely got to be the most foolish act?

by englandglory4ever Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:02 am

Crockett defo changed his direction to deliberately impede Ashton. Op is wrong.

by GloriousEmpire Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:02 am

Ashton should've been penalised for a no arms off the ball shoulder charge on Crockett.

by TJ Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:07 am

by quinsforever Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:09 am

Nachos Jones wrote:GE, the biggest fool in all this is surely Crockett? It was a nothing kick and was possibly going to give the AB's some decent field possession so why he felt the need to put himself into a position where Ashton could dive has surely got to be the most foolish act?

yes. that is why hansen was so obviously peeved. he gifted england a totally unnecessary 3 points.

however this just goes to show how uncomfortable the ABs were finding the going at this stage in the match. real pressure, especially piled upon the clear favourites, can often lead to completely uncharacteristic errors. i would put mistakes like this into the "ABs were really off their game today" type of pathetic excuse - where the opposition are apparently immaterial...

by quinsforever Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:10 am

GloriousEmpire wrote:Ashton should've been penalised for a no arms off the ball shoulder charge on Crockett.

so he should have wrapped his arms around and made the tackle? Laugh

by jimmyinthewell68 Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:11 am

the shock is how ashton still being picked

by quinsforever Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:13 am

i thought yday was his best in a while actually. 2 mistakes, kicking the ball away in NZ 22, and offside for farrell's kick. was never going to be a great day to be an england winger with their clear gameplan.

wonder whether he would have started if wade and yarde had been fit.

by GloriousEmpire Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:18 am

Nachos Jones wrote:GE, the biggest fool in all this is surely Crockett? It was a nothing kick and was possibly going to give the AB's some decent field possession so why he felt the need to put himself into a position where Ashton could dive has surely got to be the most foolish act?

I don't think he did. He was running with his back to Ashton, Ashton of all lines to take "happened" to run into the back of Crockett, with his shoulder lowered and then leapt to the ground. Look, if a prop forward can out pace and out manoeuvre your wing then you've got serious issues to begin with.

by TJ Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:20 am

by Nachos Jones Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:31 am

GloriousEmpire wrote:
Nachos Jones wrote:GE, the biggest fool in all this is surely Crockett? It was a nothing kick and was possibly going to give the AB's some decent field possession so why he felt the need to put himself into a position where Ashton could dive has surely got to be the most foolish act?
I don't think he did. He was running with his back to Ashton, Ashton of all lines to take "happened" to run into the back of Crockett, with his shoulder lowered and then leapt to the ground. Look, if a prop forward can out pace and out manoeuvre your wing then you've got serious issues to begin with.

Well I guess we see things differently here then as the slow motion replays I have seen Clearly show Crockett keeping an eye on Ashton's running line. Still does not excuse the dive as that was pure poor sportsmanship. I would be more peeved at Crockett than at Ashton is I was Hansen...

by Breadvan Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:46 am

I thought the Op was posting a sarcastic one, it seems not. Crockett clearly has a cheeky look over his shoulder and blocks off Ashton. Although, parling should've been penalised a few secs before for a cynical block on mccaw.

by TJ Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:48 am

Guys = don't feed the troll. Ignore and report GEs trolling posts. Don't dignify him by argueing with him.

by GloriousEmpire Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:52 am

Either way the incident was irrelevant to the game and Joubert should've told Ashton to grow a pair instead if giving him a penalty.

by TJ Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:19 am

Is there a muppet smilie?

by RDSguru Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:24 am

TJ wrote:

Is there a muppet smilie?

by kingjohn7 Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:16 am

GloriousEmpire wrote:It was a rubbish decision by Joubert. Ashton milked it, ran into the nearest forward and then the howls from twickenham crowd clearly affected Joubert. Weak, weak refereeing.
He should at least have gone to the tmo and confirmed that it was "no enough" obstruction surely? ALSO IT WAS A RUBBISH KICK AND I THOUGHT PERHAPS ASHTON HAD FALLEN DOWN IN EMBARRASSMENT.

by englandglory4ever Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:44 am

It wasn't diving by Ashton anyway. The bloke falls over with the slightest puff of wind. He's a wuss that should be dropped asap.

by nganboy Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:12 am

Crockett should have been penalised for clearly moving into his run.
Ashton should have been penalised for being a c*ck.
Result
Scrum to England where he kicked it.
That seems fair

by Taylorman Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:51 am

No9 wrote:

If Ashton was any good, would have ran round, but he decided to play for the penalty and purposely ran into. That's my point....

That was exactly my summary of the situation and I'm glad we don't have idiots like that on our side.

If he was 100% committed to pursuing the kick that he progressed he should have been skillful enough to run around the player- he had ample time and space to do that. The AB move would have been no more than a shuffle to the left of less than a foot- Ashton had yards before reaching him and presumably a winger of that class should be agile enough to cope with that and move around him.

But no, the dumb egg runs straight into the AB and soccer dives off him- would he run straight into a tree swaying in the breeze in the same situation? I guess so.

So yes, a penalty for the AB shuffle- he should know better.

An embarrassment to the game. If an AB did that he'd be laughed out of the country. We don't have football in that way here so don't have the unlucky privilege of getting 'used' to that kind of comedy.

...just an opinion mind you...

by Sidestep Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:15 pm

He does seem to have an attitude problem. but that's exacerbated by having one of those faces that seems to make him instantly unlikable.. And all that reinventing wingplay stuff from before.. He seemed genuinely fired up for this game though, probably why in the moment he dis something so theatrical/pathetic. Anyway. My first post. I don't think he should be cited, obviously. But I'm sure the stick he will get from teammates and in general will act as punishment enough. it was a terrible kick. One he had no hope to retrieve. Crockett did look and 'aim' his movement. But Ashton certainly went to town with the dive.. England played well. Entertaining game and the all blacks certainly were made to fight for their win. as a neutral I found it a great game. Unlike the Australia and south Africa games this weekend. (from a nh perspective)

by gelodge Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:41 pm

Crockett was lucky Clancy wasn't in charge, he could have been binned for Ashton's dive like Godman was for Byrne's

Run

by splenetic Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:04 pm

gelodge wrote:Crockett was lucky Clancy wasn't in charge, he could have been binned for Ashton's dive like Godman was for Byrne's

Now there's a player who likes to go down more than Michael Douglas Cat

by Cyril Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:20 pm

Taylorman wrote:
No9 wrote:

If Ashton was any good, would have ran round, but he decided to play for the penalty and purposely ran into. That's my point....
That was exactly my summary of the situation and I'm glad we don't have idiots like that on our side.

If he was 100% committed to pursuing the kick that he progressed he should have been skillful enough to run around the player- he had ample time and space to do that. The AB move would have been no more than a shuffle to the left of less than a foot- Ashton had yards before reaching him and presumably a winger of that class should be agile enough to cope with that and move around him.

But no, the dumb egg runs straight into the AB and soccer dives off him- would he run straight into a tree swaying in the breeze in the same situation? I guess so.

So yes, a penalty for the AB shuffle- he should know better.

An embarrassment to the game. If an AB did that he'd be laughed out of the country. We don't have football in that way here so don't have the unlucky privilege of getting 'used' to that kind of comedy.

...just an opinion mind you...

This holier than thou attitude is getting a bit tiresome. This idea that some nations haven't had players do stupid things is quite incredible. It's fair enough to criticise, but let's be realistic.

by beshocked Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:22 pm

TJ wrote:Guys = don't feed the troll. Ignore and report GEs trolling posts. Don't dignify him by argueing with him.

How ironic that a troll like you says don't feed the troll.

Your anti English comments and general Wum like comments are almost as frequent as GEs.

Was wondering when the customary Ashton bashing thread was going to make an appearance.

by fa0019 Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:03 pm

Its one thing that we're adopting from Football.

However football can teach us a lot.... in football if someone is injured then the opposite team automatically stops play. In rugby we just keep on going and try and exploit the numbers diff.

The only time I've seen otherwise was when Danny Care saw a welsh player in serious pain in a ruck in a pre RWC11 warm up match at Twickenham and asked the ref to stop play.

Whenever someone scores when players are down injured it does tend to leave a bitter taste regardless of who scored.

by RDSguru Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:17 am

fa0019 wrote:Its one thing that we're adopting from Football.

However football can teach us a lot.... in football if someone is injured then the opposite team automatically stops play. In rugby we just keep on going and try and exploit the numbers diff.

The only time I've seen otherwise was when Danny Care saw a welsh player in serious pain in a ruck in a pre RWC11 warm up match at Twickenham and asked the ref to stop play.

Whenever someone scores when players are down injured it does tend to leave a bitter taste regardless of who scored.

A very good point, but the cynic in me says that feigning injuries could become a defence!

by Scratch Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:22 am

Look at the scrum, teams dive en masse to get the pen….it's professionalism and the sooner it is made an example of the better. Couldn't care whether it is Ashton or not, a ban is too far but a yellow might be enough

by Knowsit17 Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:23 am

Heavy bans and fines for any over-dramatisation. The IRB ought to send a clear message: you can get away with it in football but **** can you get away with it in rugby!

Serious attention needs to be drawn and firm steps taken to stamp it out before it takes more of a foothold and becomes part of the sport's culture as it has in football.

by Cyril Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:32 am

Players asking for cards to be dished out (plus holding up imaginary cards to the refs) is now commonplace.

It's a slightly different thing, but kicking/throwing the ball away to stop quick line-outs/taps needs to be met with punishment more often (penalty, marched back 10 yards or yellow depending on position/severity).

by quinsforever Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:34 am

need a bit more of this i reckon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXoBNFOxlQM

by doctor_grey Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:36 am

Does anyone know if a link to the match has been posted? I forgot to record the match.
Is there a link to Ashton's alleged dive? I was in a crowded pub and must have missed it.

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