Ireland v New Zealand

First topic message reminder :

Right what's done is done regarding Aus. Time to move on and look forward to the ABs. This could be one to watch from behind the couch.

I don't expect any major changes in the team. Murray for Redden being the only obvious change, possibly at tighthead, possibly in the second row. Sexton is doubtful, maybe Earls is available.

My only expectation for this game is for an improved performance as the required level of aggressiveness was just non existent last Saturday. Otherwise we are looking at some hammering.

Without stating the obvious...I would like to see our players try to copy the All Blacks in certain aspects of the game. Namely
1. Passing the ball to another Irish player who is moving forwards and preferably in space
2. When running with the ball try to avoid the opposition players as much as possible instead of seeking out contact.
that is all.

Suas an bothair agus ar aghaidh an tarbh.

Updated with Teams
All Blacks
15 Dagg,14 jane, 13 B Smith, 12 Nonu, 11 Savea, 10 Cruden, 9 A Smith
8 Read, 7 McCaw, 6 Luatua, 5 Whitelock, , 4 Romano, 3 Faumoina, 2 Hore , 1 Crockett

Ireland
R Kearney; T Bowe, B O’Driscoll, G D’Arcy, D Kearney; J Sexton, C Murray; C Healy, R Best, M Ross, D Toner, P O’Connell, P O’Mahony, S O’Brien, J Heaslip.
Replacements: S Cronin, J McGrath, D Fitzpatrick, M McCarthy, K McLaughlin, I Boss, I Madigan, L Fitzgerald.

Also whoever is at 10 will have a very tough day. Cruden for me is the best attacking 10 in the world and last time we played them he ripped us to shreds. Tough day for Jackson/Madigan but great opportunity to gauge them against the best.

Would like to see McGrath, Marshall and touhy have a go at them too.

Lets be honest we have been known to rain on people's parades when we are given no hope.

Last year NZ were looking to break the record for most wins in a row. I think that NZ will be nervous and if we get in their faces they might beat themselves.

Well we can live in hope.

Anyone know the weather?

The Weather is supporting the All Blacks at the weekend...or so the basteraud was tweeting all day across the airwaves!

The All Blacks are apparently creating a new Haka just for this game. The expectation is that Ireland will be so generous giving points away, that they're going to call it "Ta Mate" and just do a thumbs up gesture.

Ireland were considering the response to this and who should deliver it, when Luke Marshall put his hand up. Schmidt quickly told him via the Indo newsroom that he couldn't afford a rookie to make any costly errors by tackling the wrong man, as that could engender a career threatening spear tackle to BOD.

It was unilaterally decided that Michael D. Higgins would respond by shouting "céad míle fáilte 2023", and present the entire New Zealand squad with ginger beards and comedy Leprechaun hats sporting the "Vote for Ireland 2023 - to be sure" logo.

I heard those rumours too.  I hear the Nordie guys have a little pre-game trick up their sleeves as they stand waiting for the anthems, to counter Higgins' Vote for Ireland campaign.  When Higgins is greeting the team they're going to have Bowe dressed in a bowler, carrying an umbrella and have him shout the immortal words of "Never! Never! Never! ...never" ....as he refuses to shake Higgins' hand"

It's hoped the AB players will think they're involved in a sectarian struggle across the peace walls and will then be encouraged to let us win for the sake of harmony and understanding................ oh and for the sake of talks around the round table talks too................

I think at this stage we should use any tactic that gives us the upper hand.

I'd be inclined to pick both Marshall and D'arcy at inside centre but dress D'arcy as a leprechaun and just pretend we can't see him. The ref might fall for it if we get him tanked on poitin....

 

I reckon we should really have a go at them. Like we did in that 2nd Test we barely lost down in NZ. Throw caution to the wind and hit everything that moves. Hard. If we go down, and we will, lets go down giving  it  a decent lash. I'd be happy with that.

Kick penalties to the corner, run from deep, take the chances with support runs and offloads- and smash everything that moves.

Aye we'll lose, but we'll entertain the masses and earn the respect of our opponents. Kamikaze rugby but so long as we score some nice tries and leave them with a few bumps and bruises I'll be happy enough.

Only problem is the Aussie game was supposed to be a dry run of all that.
The only bonus coming from Saturday is that now at least Schmidt has something solid to pin down as needing much work between now and the weekend.
The unfortunate thing is that the something solid that isn't working is the entire team itself.  Old story, new chapter.

Really struggling to see how we can win is an understatement. I reckon we will be better but still get handsomely beaten. Nz 55 -18 ire

san wrote:

That's more important to me now than the result - how to protect myself from seeing it whilst watching it.

Any hints will be welcome.

I watched the eclipse a few years ago through 5 pairs of sunglasses. My eyes were fine and I'm not entirely sure what I saw.

Try it!

I would suggest the norovirius as a path to victory, but the aussies were all half-cut and they still hammered us!

A friend of mine contracted the winter vomiting bug 2 weeks ago and we've been trying to weaponise it ever since. One way or another lads,things are going to get messy.

I'll be there again and it had better provide considerably more worthwhile viewing than last Saturday. I shall be watching our front five through half-open fingers, hoping that O'Connell remembers that he's an all-time great and starts playing like it and that we're not going through the charade of picking Ross for yet another roasting. Toner's inclusion wouldn't thrill me either, but I can't expect miracles and I doubt I'm going to get them.

That said and from the depths of despair, I shall predict that Ireland somehow get within a score of the ABs on Sunday. God knows why, but anyway. Just a feeling.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I make Ireland favourites.

 

Ireland are 28/1 on Betfair !!!

http://www.betfair.com/exchange/rugby-union/market?id=1.111665860&mpch=ads&rfr=63

So how far up the rankings do we jump when we win?

On the New Zealand TAB:

Head to head, All Blacks $1.03, Ireland $10.00.

he All Blacks are apparently creating a new Haka just for this game. The expectation is that Ireland will be so generous giving points away, that they're going to call it "Ta Mate" and just do a thumbs up gesture.


They are calling it the Irish Jig. 

I actually suspect it'll be close. I don't think we're playing as well as we did mid season. I wouldn't judge Ireland on their last game. I think they'll lift for what could be BOD's last international.

Golden wrote:So how far up the rankings do we jump when we win?

To be the best you've got to beat the best. So if you beat the best you are the best aren't you. Straight to number 1 for you and fair enough.

We wouldn't go up too far if we somehow scraped a narrow win- up to 6th, just head of Wales. Possibly 5th if France are heavily beaten.

Has anyone seen the words torn/tear used when describing Sexton's hamstring? If its just a strain they could have a good crack at putting him together by next Monday.

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Has anyone seen the words torn/tear used when describing Sexton's hamstring? If its just a strain they could have a good crack at putting him together by next Monday.

 
Gerry Thornley in the IT on Monday:

Confirmation of Johnny Sexton’s absence for a likely minimum of six weeks with a suspected Grade Two hamstring tear will probably come today or tomorrow...

Interesting parallels with John Hart's 97 team. Closest team in the pro era to come to a perfect year. They drew 26 all with England in their last game. Difficult to keep your mind on the task at hand but a good lesson for the young players. Time for Hansen to sprinkle the team with a few changes to introduce some motivation.

Any insight into the likely lineup for Ireland?

Cave has been called up I see

That 97 team was some team - only marginally bettered by the current AB side of the past 2 seasons imo.

I think Ireland will make minimal changes from the weekend, so I'll guess:

15 Kearney
14 Bowe
13 BOD
12 Marshall
11 Kearney
10 Sexton
9 Murray
8 Heaslip
7 SOB
6 O'Mahoney
5 Toner
4 O'Connell
3 Ross
2 Best
1 Healy

Bench - McGrath, Cronin, Fitzpatrick, McCarthy, McLaughlin Reddan, Madigan, Fitzgerald/Earls/D'arcy

Score - NZ by 30

The way Schmidt was animatedly talking to D'Arcy in some training ground footage shown yesterday on the news makes me think he'll be back at 12 for this one.

I don't think Sexton will be there and Jackson will have a whack at it.

Yeah I suspected D'arcy would get the nod but ....Schmidt's surely not bold enough to plump for an all Leinster backline! ....

George Carlin wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Has anyone seen the words torn/tear used when describing Sexton's hamstring? If its just a strain they could have a good crack at putting him together by next Monday.

 
Gerry Thornley in the IT on Monday:

Confirmation of Johnny Sexton’s absence for a likely minimum of six weeks with a suspected Grade Two hamstring tear will probably come today or tomorrow...

It's been discovered it was actually just a strain all along. He's 50/50.

Notch wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Has anyone seen the words torn/tear used when describing Sexton's hamstring? If its just a strain they could have a good crack at putting him together by next Monday.

 
Gerry Thornley in the IT on Monday:

Confirmation of Johnny Sexton’s absence for a likely minimum of six weeks with a suspected Grade Two hamstring tear will probably come today or tomorrow...

It's been discovered it was actually just a strain all along. He's 50/50.

Problem is he didn't really look 50/50 formwise even before going off.  Schmidt wasn't lying when he said before the Samoan game that Sexton is 'flat'.  He is.  I think............. Jackson.  Oh I don't bloody know!

It's a dumb exercise anyway - trying to think of a team that might lose over an alternative one that might lose................ it's a lose lose debate.

Maybe it's all a big bloody ruse (form and Australian performance) to try an catch ABs off guard. My more sinister self has pondered that one...but even if that's partially the deal, I wish them a lot of luck trying that trick out................ they'll still need more luck than skill levels to pull it off.

So let me see, which 10 should we pick to kick the leather off the ball?

The experienced one with the dodgy hamstring or the inexperienced one who doesn't?

Sexton didn't kick that much,he put up a Garryowen early on to test Folau and he tried a couple of chips over the top when the Aussies rushed up too fast but he kicked less than Cooper with a fairly similar amount of touches,which is actually impressive considering he only played 40 minutes to Coppers 70.

If Sexton is not going to be fully recovered it doesn't seem to make sense to play him against the all blacks of all teams.

We can't afford to have a player on the pitch who is maybe holding back in any way. The intensity and speed of the game will be frightening.

Better to go with either a fully fit Jackson or Madigan -they're young, they have years to recover from the nightmare.

Personally i would like to see Jackson get the nod. He hasn't got Madigans running game, but he is very solid and perhaps less prone to making mistakes and we know how the all blacks punish those.

I just hate the idea that D'Arcy will get the nod because of our inexperience at 10. He's fairly out of sorts.

But maybe it will be D'Arcys final game for Ireland as first choice.

Notch wrote:I just hate the idea that D'Arcy will get the nod because of our inexperience at 10. He's fairly out of sorts.

But maybe it will be D'Arcys final game for Ireland as first choice.

He wasn't that bad against Samoa. And who knows how much he might have played a part in stabilising a sinking ship (to get the women and children off at least) during the Australian game (and that's not me having a cut at young Marshall who did as well as he could when all his seniors were having a dog's-dinner day)

Joe should do a Gatland and play the Leinster team plus POC and Bowe. Leinster are supposed to be better than Ireland anyway and they should know each other's game. It would have the added bonus that BOD, Darce, Reddan and Ross could all retire from Test rugby with their mates clapping them off the pitch.

The Great Aukster wrote:Joe should do a Gatland and play the Leinster team plus POC and Bowe. Leinster are supposed to be better than Ireland anyway and they should know each other's game. It would have the added bonus that BOD, Darce, Reddan and Ross could all retire from Test rugby with their mates clapping them off the pitch.

Not a bad idea, Aukster. No, not the one about a mostly Leinster side. I just think that's a bundle of misery that would be heaped onto this board and in the media come rain or shine on the day. Besides, there are quite a few Leinster players I'd have dropped at this point anyway if I wanted to really go for a win.....

But that idea that just for one last time BOD, Darce, Redden and Ross could help secure the elusive, and then have enough in the trophy bag to call it a day....even before the Six Nations. A win and I wouldn't be against that at all. We'd start then in February to get a new system up and running. Hmmmm.............. it ain't gonna be a fairytale though.

The Great Aukster wrote:Joe should do a Gatland and play the Leinster team plus POC and Bowe. Leinster are supposed to be better than Ireland anyway

That's soooo 2012 Aukster....

The reality is all the provinces are struggling to some degree so we can't even fall back on that old chestnut.

I cant see any reason for D'Arcy to start over Marshall and nor can I see the point in using Sexton for this match. Due to the physicality that the AB's play, a half fit Sexton may need to be replaced very early.

Jackson should start with Madigan coming on when the AB's are hopefully a little tired and he can play his natural running game.

tired?
tire them out?
make them exhausted?

You've been picking those mushrooms I told you to stay away from again, Nachos.

The only hope I can give us is if we drop Kearney for a more ambitious 15. He's just not at the races form wise and he's a worry the other players don't need behind them.
All your worries should be in front of you.

Hey fly, they may get tired running in 60mtr try after 60mtr try

I can't express enough how disappointed I will be if D'Arcy starts. There is zero to gain from him playing. They're going to lose either way, he offers nothing that nobody else can do at least as well as he can and there's nothing that we can learn from it for the future. Jackson would probably be helped more by playing along side a player he is familiar with in Marshall rather than an aging, slowing one that he isn't in D'Arcy (if Jackson gets the nod that is).

The All Blacks will be fecking knackered after 60. Running them in from under their own posts and then jogging back to halfway 8-9 times?

Nah, we'll bring on Madigan once they've built up their lead to the point where they stop caring and empty their bench.

God, I hate realism. Lets fecking batter them!

It's got that feeling about it when you were a youngfella planning a night out with your mates to a nightclub in town. You grew your best effort at a moustache, borrowed your brothers finest leather waistcoat and lashed on your oul lads Paco Rabanne.
But even so, you sat in school on the Friday afternoon knowing you hadn't a hope in hell of getting past the bouncers.

I like that Submachine  

Submachine wrote:It's got that feeling about it when you were a youngfella planning a night out with your mates to a nightclub in town. You grew your best effort at a moustache, borrowed your brothers finest leather waistcoat and lashed on your oul lads Paco Rabanne.
But even so, you sat in school on the Friday afternoon knowing you hadn't a hope in hell of getting past the bouncers.

Leather waistcoat, really?

That trend never hit my neck of the woods.

GunsGerms wrote:

Submachine wrote:It's got that feeling about it when you were a youngfella planning a night out with your mates to a nightclub in town. You grew your best effort at a moustache, borrowed your brothers finest leather waistcoat and lashed on your oul lads Paco Rabanne.
But even so, you sat in school on the Friday afternoon knowing you hadn't a hope in hell of getting past the bouncers.

Leather waistcoat, really?

That trend never hit my neck of the woods.

Too young.

The Great Aukster wrote:Joe should do a Gatland and play the Leinster team plus POC and Bowe. Leinster are supposed to be better than Ireland anyway and they should know each other's game. It would have the added bonus that BOD, Darce, Reddan and Ross could all retire from Test rugby with their mates clapping them off the pitch.

Only if we can have Nacewa and Brad Thorn.

ME-109 wrote:Right what's done is done regarding Aus. Time to move on and look forward to the ABs. This could be one to watch from behind the couch.

I don't expect any major changes in the team. Murray for Redden being the only obvious change, possibly at tighthead, possibly in the second row. Sexton is doubtful, maybe Earls is available.

My only expectation for this game is for an improved performance as the required level of aggressiveness was just non existent last Saturday. Otherwise we are looking at some hammering.

Without stating the obvious...I would like to see our players try to copy the All Blacks in certain aspects of the game. Namely
1. Passing the ball to another Irish player who is moving forwards and preferably in space
2. When running with the ball try to avoid the opposition players as much as possible instead of seeking out contact.
that is all.

Suas an bothair agus ar aghaidh an tarbh.

Well said.

I think we showed last week that the Ab's pack is beatable. Ireland need to just have 80 mins of putting their body on the line, hitting every ruck ferociously, making every carry count - ie getting over that gainline continuously.

Then i think you have more in the backs than we have and can make the most of it.

Do you think your pack is able to do that?