Froch v Groves II Poll

I know I know, another thread. But, it is going to be interesting to see how you clal it.

Plus, this fight has captured mainstream public attention.

Id lean towards Groves. Frochs weaknesses are always the same. He wont change and Groves knows how to exploit them. If Groves signs up to matchroom and considering the wave of goodwill he has now which may lead the officials in his favour this time then Froch might have to rely on a late KO to be the winner. We never really got to find out if that would have happened in the last fight. But Groves clearly has what it takes to beat him.

Froch wins............One because he knows what to expect and two because the first round knockdown changed the fight........

Froch's legs were gone till about the 4th round.....When he got them back he got right back in and then took over!!.....I imagine also If the judges cards are anything to go by he'll lose on points should Groves win 7 rounds.......

Not sure also Froch will get much worse in four months..

Groves should go the WBo route..........Deserves to pick up a belt and then take on a 37 year old Froch.......

Froch can fight Ward again next.........Lose a bit of that ego..

Froch knows Groves can give him fits and he won't want any part of him again unless all other avenues have been explored. Look to read a report to suggest Groves wanted too much money for the rematch and they simply HAD to get Kessler back

Groves has massive leverage with Eddie Hearn now. Simply put, he should not resign with Matchroom unless he is guarenteed a rematch and a better slice of the pie.

Personally, I see a second fight going one of two ways.

Groves KO inside 6, or Froch KO in second half again. Groves WAS about to be put out, IMO. But that is just my opinion. But Groves knows he can really hurt Froch now. We have never seen George in a rematch, but I think he would learn some things.

Not Kessler 3 !!!..............Can't see people buying that in more ways than one......

Froch looked a prat after the fight........Educating the fans on what It's like in a ring.....

Ward or Groves..........Or sling it.........

I dont like the gameplan of trying to take Froch out and I think Groves made an error in probably trying to force. He saw early he could hurt Froch and nail him him big shots at will. But if he stuck to outjabbing Froch and landing the occasional big shots rather than trying to force the KO he would leave himself with more energy. He has all the ability to outbox Froch, he has the power to make Froch respect him and he knows how to get to Froch. No need to try and force a KO. Just box him and if the KO comes, it comes.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Not Kessler 3 !!!..............Can't see people buying that in more ways than one......

Froch looked a prat after the fight........Educating the fans on what It's like in a ring.....

Ward or Groves..........Or sling it.........

Agree, that bit about the fans not knowing what it is actually like in a ring did him no favours. True or not, nobody who has paid into the hundreds and just felt jobbed by the ref wants to hear from the guy who benefited about how they don't know anything about boxing.

Have loved watching Froch's career, but his ego on a platform like this was always going to get him in trouble. Ha.

Think Groves wins a very onesided but less exciting rematch by completely boxing Froch's ears off and resisting the temptation to engage as much. I find it hard to see Froch winning a round if Groves fights the right fight. Think Froch is smart enough to know this too and probably realises Groves has his number bigtime. I have heard Froch and his trainer are giving serious consideration to him calling it a day now though, this would not surprise me as he took a real beating and is not gonna be any better and likely worse in a rematch and i think his legacy and health will probably outway the big purse he would receive.

Same as Saturday night.

Groves to outbox froch early on, not put him away, it him with the kitchen sink and move all night long with brilliant boxing............

Then he will tire, Froch will soak his punches up, force him to the ropes until stopping him around the 10th.

Another exciting fight though.

I don't see how Groves boxes his ears off from distance for 12, Hogey. The ring would be a small one again and given how close two of the cards were on Saturday, I'd say he'd be more inclined to look to finish it early. What he would probably do is use more variety, not fall in love with his power so much but still look for KO. The punch that dropped Froch was a superb counter to Froch rushing in square on. The ones he loads up on afterward were in some way seen to be coming (althugh not avoided), hence he didn't KO him. Expect more body to head work in 2nd fight, but it would end up being excting. If Froch is getting dominated in a boxing match he would force a tear up, even at the expense of his own chin.

Didn't box his ears off on Staurday night...........Had him down... Froch's legs were gone for a couple of rounds and then the fight became 50/50 again........moving to 70/30 in the 9th......

I think it will pretty much go the same as the first,but McCracken will work with Froch on a tighter defense and avoiding the right hand. Froch will now respect Groves power and so I dont see him being anywhere near as wide open as he was.

Groves is an excellent boxer and the experience his gained from the first fight will stand him well, but the later rounds is when Froch comes into his own.

Froch took a right hammering on saturday, at the age he is he will not even be the same man after that. Groves looked well capable of picking Froch's pocket all night with a greater economy of effort than first time for my money At the time of the Ref deciding Froch had won both men were equally tired.

hogey wrote:Froch took a right hammering on saturday, at the age he is he will not even be the same man after that. Groves looked well capable of picking Froch's pocket all night with a greater economy of effort than first time for my money At the time of the Ref deciding Froch had won both men were equally tired.

Groves was more tired, but I agree he did a number on Froch for first 7 rounds. I believe Froch would have stopped Groves in 9th or 10th. There was a lot of time left in that round on Saturday, but ref messed it all up. At least now we'll get a rematch. Had Froch legitimately stopped him, we wouldn't

After all we saw, nobody thinks Groves can stop Froch?

You could be right but Froch was wide open and could have been caught with another clean one on the jaw that took him out as well. Too be honest i just dont think Groves was that hurt at the time of the stoppage and considering that Groves had landed the better shots in the previous round as Froch stumbled after him like something from a Mummy movie i think both men would have had good and bad periods for the remainder of the bout and both men would hear the final bell before 2 judges robbed Groves another way.

hogey wrote:You could be right but Froch was wide open and could have been caught with another clean one on the jaw that took him out as well. Too be honest i just dont think Groves was that hurt at the time of the stoppage and considering that Groves had landed the better shots in the previous round as Froch stumbled after him like something from a Mummy movie i think both men would have had good and bad periods for the remainder of the bout and both men would hear the final bell before 2 judges robbed Groves another way.

Maybe it's better it was stopped like this, rather than a card robbery, which may well have occurred.

Froch was loading up with those right hand leads so much on Satruday. He literally shakes his fist before doing it, never hits a top fighter. That was a measure of how befuddled he was at times.

Groves can stop Froch but it sure wont be easy. He would be better just picking the shots like he was doing early rather than trying to force it in the exchanges.

unless groves catches froch and drops him soon, froch will start landing sooner and eventually catch up with groves and stop him.

OasisBFC wrote:unless groves catches froch and drops him soon, froch will start landing sooner and eventually catch up with groves and stop him.

You really think Froch would be better in a rematch aged 36-37 and after receiving that right tonking on saturday night from a big puncher because he never really caught up with Groves the other night by and large he just landed a couple of good punches and and got an early xmas present from the ref.
I think this fight will have taken a lot of Froch physically and mentally and i personally wont be surprised if he does not want to do it all again and i wont blame him one bit if he retires.

Yes Groves was definitely winning the fight, but this landslide victory everyone seems to be suggesting never happened. Groves was marked around both eyes with one eye swelling, so Froch must have been catching him with something,takes more than a couple of good punches to mark someone up around the eyes.

I think the crowd booing Froch out of the arena and cheering Groves like he won will have a massive effect on Froch. He is very needy for respect and adoration. I would say being booed by his own fans hurt him even more than Groves punches did. That could either leave him falling out love with the sport and wanting to pack it on or firing him up to try and win back the crowd. It would be a sour way to retire with a controversial win over a big rival like that and then having the public turn from hero to villain. I dont think he would want to retire like that.

I think you are overplaying Groves dominance somewhat Hogey, Froch had fairly won three rounds going into the 9th and did have him seriously hurt. Groves had his hands up and was punching back but his legs had been all over the place for the preceding 20 seconds. Unless he knocks him out early which I don't see happening then Froch will catch up with him sooner or later, he's just a better conditioned fighter.

catchweight wrote:I think the crowd booing Froch out of the arena and cheering Groves like he won will have a massive effect on Froch. He is very needy for respect and adoration. I would say being booed by his own fans hurt him even more than Groves punches did. That could either leave him falling out love with the sport and wanting to pack it on or firing him up to try and win back the crowd. It would be a sour way to retire with a controversial win over a big rival like that and then having the public turn from hero to villain. I dont think he would want to retire like that.

Completely agree. The worst thing for a supposed 'warrior' is winning via such a cowardly method and then witnessing his own fans turning on him. Imagine they do rematch and Froch gives it all the 'warrior' BS again...he'd get laughed out of town.

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:

catchweight wrote:I think the crowd booing Froch out of the arena and cheering Groves like he won will have a massive effect on Froch. He is very needy for respect and adoration. I would say being booed by his own fans hurt him even more than Groves punches did. That could either leave him falling out love with the sport and wanting to pack it on or firing him up to try and win back the crowd. It would be a sour way to retire with a controversial win over a big rival like that and then having the public turn from hero to villain. I dont think he would want to retire like that.

Completely agree. The worst thing for a supposed 'warrior' is winning via such a cowardly method and then witnessing his own fans turning on him. Imagine they do rematch and Froch gives it all the 'warrior' BS again...he'd get laughed out of town.

Cowardly method, thought ref stopped the fight not Froch.

I think Froch wins a rematch and I think he was also going to win on Saturday. Of course it doesn't change the fact the scoring and refereeing was a complete disgrace, but to me Froch looked to be catching pip with him.

In a rematch I think Froch can adjust accordingly and not get bombed about for the first 6 rounds and come on strong in the second half. Itv was a great fight which sadly is making the headlines for all the wrong reasons.

Can't see Froch adapting much. Groves can adapt to a game plan but Froch is too long in the tooth to make many changes.

Nico the gman wrote:

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:

catchweight wrote:I think the crowd booing Froch out of the arena and cheering Groves like he won will have a massive effect on Froch. He is very needy for respect and adoration. I would say being booed by his own fans hurt him even more than Groves punches did. That could either leave him falling out love with the sport and wanting to pack it on or firing him up to try and win back the crowd. It would be a sour way to retire with a controversial win over a big rival like that and then having the public turn from hero to villain. I dont think he would want to retire like that.

Completely agree. The worst thing for a supposed 'warrior' is winning via such a cowardly method and then witnessing his own fans turning on him. Imagine they do rematch and Froch gives it all the 'warrior' BS again...he'd get laughed out of town.

Cowardly method, thought ref stopped the fight not Froch.

Having a bent ref save his arse is hardly the stuff of wariors.

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:

Nico the gman wrote:

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:

catchweight wrote:I think the crowd booing Froch out of the arena and cheering Groves like he won will have a massive effect on Froch. He is very needy for respect and adoration. I would say being booed by his own fans hurt him even more than Groves punches did. That could either leave him falling out love with the sport and wanting to pack it on or firing him up to try and win back the crowd. It would be a sour way to retire with a controversial win over a big rival like that and then having the public turn from hero to villain. I dont think he would want to retire like that.

Completely agree. The worst thing for a supposed 'warrior' is winning via such a cowardly method and then witnessing his own fans turning on him. Imagine they do rematch and Froch gives it all the 'warrior' BS again...he'd get laughed out of town.

Cowardly method, thought ref stopped the fight not Froch.

Having a bent ref save his arse is hardly the stuff of wariors.

What are you talking about, whats Froch supposed to do go up to the ref after the stoppage and ask if its OK to continue the fight,bent ref no, terrible stoppage yes.

It was beyond a poor decision and can only be explained as the ref helping the promoters marquee fighter = corrupt/bent. I'm not saying that Froch caused the stoppage, in any way, but it was an extremely un-warrior like way to win a fight.

It has absolutely nothing to do with Froch and it's so childish the way you're acting here.

Tough to call this. On most occasions you'd take the guy who got the stoppage to win easier second time round, such is the psychology of these things. It's not clear cut here though. Does froch really believe he had him? If so, he comes in more confident. Does groves really believe he wasn't hurt and had plenty left? If so, he comes in really confident. If they don't really believe what they say then who knows.

I think groves can look back and think about pacing himself a little better and not getting into a brawl. Froch i don't believe can change much... just hope that he can get to groves when he slows down again. Ultimately I think it depends on whether groves has the discipline to stick to a game plan that he can physically maintain for 12 rounds. There wasn't much wrong with the one he used on Saturday, excepting when he went all bar room cowboy a few times.

Really tough call.

I'm sorry if one of your favourite fighters career ends in a farce, but I will always stick up for honesty over favouritism when it comes to British boxing.

First of all, disregarding the controversy- What a great fight! Exactly what boxing needs. It's got everyone talking about this great sport once again which Groves and Froch deserve credit for.

I said this before the fight, but Groves and Degale are superior boxers to Froch. Groves has obvious punching power as seen in his last few fights were nearly everyone has been KO'd. He was also very close to stopping the Road Warrior Glen Johnson! So yes, maybe his abilities were slightly overlooked by many.

Froch showed tremendous courage to get back into the fight but in a rematch I can't see past a GG victory. I also believe Froch would struggle against James Degale, who is another excellent fighter who's simply not had the opportunity his ability deserved.

Would like to see GG win the title, with a rematch with Degale on the cards down the line.

Froch has had a great career and no one can doubt his style wasn't fan friendly. I just feel his actual boxing skills fall short of an elite level fighter (which Groves and Degale have potential of reaching).

milkyboy wrote:Tough to call this. On most occasions you'd take the guy who got the stoppage to win easier second time round, such is the psychology of these things. It's not clear cut here though. Does froch really believe he had him? If so, he comes in more confident. Does groves really believe he wasn't hurt and had plenty left? If so, he comes in really confident. If they don't really believe what they say then who knows.

I think groves can look back and think about pacing himself a little better and not getting into a brawl. Froch i don't believe can change much... just hope that he can get to groves when he slows down again. Ultimately I think it depends on whether groves has the discipline to stick to a game plan that he can physically maintain for 12 rounds. There wasn't much wrong with the one he used on Saturday, excepting when he went all bar room cowboy a few times.

Really tough call.

I agree Milky that Groves will pace himself better and be more disciplined.

Added to that it was very noticeable that Groves had faster hands than Froch. Time is catching up on Froch and that fight and the heavy knockdown put further miles on his clock.

I believe Groves was in a great position to win the fight had he had the wherewithal and stamina to get on his bike.

I tend to agree with ATG, but would add this: Froch has rarely used the boxing ability that he plainly possesses. You don't win a bronze medal at the world amateurs if you aren't pretty well versed in the technical stuff. For whatever reason, and you'd have to think that ego/pride would be close to the top of the list, he has rarely bothered with the silky stuff as a pro, preferring to trade on chin, resolve and amazing powers of recuperation.

The Abraham fight is the one exception that I'd single out. I'd argue that it might be Froch's best victory and it was certainly his best performance. It would have been interesting to see that style deployed against Groves and to watch how George countered it. I suspect that if Froch had spent most of his eleven championship fights boxing like that, he'd have been just as successful and might even have had a shelf life extending a couple of years beyond the one that is now surely drawing to a close.

To play amateur psychologist for a minute I get the impression Froch is quite insecure and cares deeply about how is perceived and rated be it in comparison to Calzaghe or other British fighters. Deep down I suspect he knows he does not have the ability to really break into the very top tier of either the P4P fighters out there or the best Brits of all time, so substitutes what he may lack in certain areas through fighting anyone and everyone and through eschewing his skills in favour of all out brawling. Would have been interesting to see what he could have achieved had he stuck to his occasionally seen boxing skills because as the captain has said you don’t have the amateur career he had without knowing something.

captain carrantuohil wrote:I tend to agree with ATG, but would add this: Froch has rarely used the boxing ability that he plainly possesses. You don't win a bronze medal at the world amateurs if you aren't pretty well versed in the technical stuff. For whatever reason, and you'd have to think that ego/pride would be close to the top of the list, he has rarely bothered with the silky stuff as a pro, preferring to trade on chin, resolve and amazing powers of recuperation.

The Abraham fight is the one exception that I'd single out. I'd argue that it might be Froch's best victory and it was certainly his best performance. It would have been interesting to see that style deployed against Groves and to watch how George countered it. I suspect that if Froch had spent most of his eleven championship fights boxing like that, he'd have been just as successful and might even have had a shelf life extending a couple of years beyond the one that is now surely drawing to a close.

I think Froch came out at the start intending to use his jab. He didn't go in looking for the big punches early, but it was obvious that as soon as Groves strode out to the middle of the ring and started firing fast, hard shots down the middle Carl didn't know what to do, he still tried with the jab but as Jim Watt put it "it's an aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarm punch", he had no conviction in it, and why should he have? Everytime he let it go he got hit flush in the face.

Seanusarrilius wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Not Kessler 3 !!!..............Can't see people buying that in more ways than one......

Froch looked a prat after the fight........Educating the fans on what It's like in a ring.....

Ward or Groves..........Or sling it.........

Agree, that bit about the fans not knowing what it is actually like in a ring did him no favours. True or not, nobody who has paid into the hundreds and just felt jobbed by the ref wants to hear from the guy who benefited about how they don't know anything about boxing.

Have loved watching Froch's career, but his ego on a platform like this was always going to get him in trouble. Ha.

Reminded me of Naz when he was booed in his comeback fight after the loss to Barrera.

Difference is, Dave, that there were always a few boos for Naz mixed in with the applause, even in his pomp. He played the pantomime villain to the point that reality and 'the show' became blurred.

Froch won't have heard those boos before and he clearly doesn't/didn't like them. Jeff reckons that there is some sort of basic insecurity at work there and I suspect that he may be right and that it may dictate what Froch does next.

Hampo, I'm not sure. I think that he wanted to smash Groves to bits; didn't like him, didn't rate him, wanted to teach him as brutal a lesson as possible. The penny dropped too late and by the time he woke up to the fact that this was an opponent who meant business, he was in a war for survival.

I just cannot see Froch wanting to have such a loss and reaction hanging over him. Whilst he may have patronised the fans and made a bit of a clown of himself in the heat of the moment post fight deep down he will know he dodged a bullet Saturday and was the benificiary of some very kind officiating. Would personally be amazed if he did anything other than fight Groves next and look to settle things without any caveats or question marks attached.

I think he'll run for the hills Rowley, I don't think McCracken will want to go near Groves again. He apparently said in the post fight press conference that Groves was all wrong for Carl and that he didn't want the fight to happen. If he says retire, then I think Froch will go along with him.

captain carrantuohil wrote:Difference is, Dave, that there were always a few boos for Naz mixed in with the applause, even in his pomp. He played the pantomime villain to the point that reality and 'the show' became blurred.

Froch won't have heard those boos before and he clearly doesn't/didn't like them. Jeff reckons that there is some sort of basic insecurity at work there and I suspect that he may be right and that it may dictate what Froch does next.

Thing is, Naz made a point of saying that those fans were ignorant.

He'd being promising something fresh and renewed and it appeared to be the same old, same old....people were walking out early and those who stayed felt conned/cheated. For Naz to them say they were ignorant just rubbed salt in the wound.

Still upset me hearing him booed Saturday. I can assure you being the only guy in 20,000 cheering someone whilst everyone else boos them is a lonely position to be in.

Froch is very obviously insecure.

Rowley wrote:Still upset me hearing him booed Saturday. I can assure you being the only guy in 20,000 cheering someone whilst everyone else boos them is a lonely position to be in.

Given you role as Moderator on here I thought you'd be used to it

catchweight wrote:Froch is very obviously insecure.

Be fun to watch him fight James "Tell 'em to stop booing, Frank" DeGale. Actually it wouldn't but the post fight whinge/interview would be TV gold

By the way, anyone pick up Khan's words of wisdom on the BBC website: -
"I would say to Carl Froch to retire really. He is on top at the moment. There is no point risking it and probably losing on your way out.

"It is always harder to keep hold of world titles as there are hungrier fighters out there like Andre Ward"

Ward is the man in the division, head and shoulders above everyone else, but is is hungrier than Froch!