Froch vs Groves: Keys To Victory

by **hampo17** Mon 18 Nov 2013, 9:02 pm

My latest article is on the journal, as always feedback is welcomed. We're a little thin on the ground regarding boxing writers so if anyone wants to write for the site then let me know. We'll also be relaunching the podcast soon.

http://v2journal.com/16/post/2013/11/froch-vs-groves-keys-to-victory.html

by **88Chris05** Mon 18 Nov 2013, 9:13 pm

Excellent stuff, hampo. If anyone is struggling to predict a winner than your run down of both fighters' strengths and weaknesses might be a decent point for them to start at. Top marks.

by BoxingFan88 Mon 18 Nov 2013, 11:02 pm

I think Froch wins this one in convincing style, Groves will have too much trouble with the Jab and he is probably going to get stopped mid to late. I can't see groves taking the punishment that Froch will dish out.

If Froch fights recklessly then Groves might be able to clip him, but I don't see it happening.

by RanjitPatel Mon 18 Nov 2013, 11:14 pm

If Groves makes it to the fifth I will be very surprised and may even start to believe that he has a chance.
Ive said all along that this will be a Bute like massacre but I'd like to be proven wrong.
Froch in 3.

by KingMonkey Tue 19 Nov 2013, 7:12 am

Enjoyed that, thanks. I've bought into the hype to where I think Groves makes this very interesting and have found myself cheering on the underdog. That said, I read this and watch some clips of Froch and I see only one thing: a Bute-esque destruction. He's a beast and George is still a boy.

by mobilemaster8 Tue 19 Nov 2013, 8:12 am

To be fair, Froch may be fairly slow and not as technically gifted as George, but my word is he an animal. You only need to watch the Bute, Kessler (both) and Pascal fights to see. Suppose you can throw in Mack and the constant relentless pressuring of Taylor in the late stages too.

by Stella Tue 19 Nov 2013, 8:24 am

I'm no expert on boxing but like Froch and hope he beats Groves. My question to you experts is, which round?
A friend of mine is saying 3, but isn't Froch a 'wear them down' type of fighter. I'm saying round 9.

by **hampo17** Tue 19 Nov 2013, 8:48 am

It all depends how defensively Groves fights Stella, if he tries to fight fire with fire then Froch could get him out of there quickly as we all know Groves can be hurt.

If he has to go looking for him then I see Groves causing a few issues, however eventually he will have to take some shots from Froch and I'm not convinced he'll stand up to them. As mentioned in the article mate, TKO anytime from round 8 onwards in my opinion.

by Stella Tue 19 Nov 2013, 8:50 am

Thanks Hampo. Saw your article on FB also, but haven't read it...............yet.

by mobilemaster8 Tue 19 Nov 2013, 9:08 am

Id agree with that Hampo.

If groves trades early, he gets blasted out. Hopefully he doesn't so we can see a semi competitive fight for a few rounds at least.

Sooner or later in the fight though, Froch will catch him and will unleash a relentless attack to which Groves will not recover.....TKO around the 7th.

by **hampo17** Tue 19 Nov 2013, 11:36 am

Thought I'd just chuck this story in from the BBC;

George Groves says he should be the favourite when he challenges fellow Briton Carl Froch for his WBA and IBF world titles in Manchester on Saturday.

Unbeaten Groves, 25, claims he has the ability and mentality to make up for Froch's 11 years more experience.

"In the emotional and mental battles I have annihilated him. I think I should be favourite," Groves told BBC Sport.

Froch has lost twice in 33 bouts and dismissed Groves as "disrespectful, very arrogant and downright rude".

"He has developed a whopping ego and he seems to have turned into a bit of a bad lad," Froch added.

"It is uncalled for and I don't like that. I am going to take great pleasure in knocking him out."

A veteran of 13 previous world titles fights, Froch aims to use the fight as a stepping stone to a rematch with American Andre Ward, who beat Edwin Rodriguez last weekend.

His loss to Ward in Atlantic City in December 2011 is the only professional defeat Froch has yet to avenge after he overcame Mikkel Kessler last time out.

by Guest Tue 19 Nov 2013, 12:32 pm

On Sky Froch is saying he wants to take his time beating up groves and predicts a stoppage between 6 and 8 rounds...however he does say that when hit hits Groves on that glass chin (not jaw, chin) the fight will be over. This suggests Froch is going to allow Groves to win up to eight rounds before he starts boxing because he daren't hit him for fear of ending the fight

I have to admire this bold stance as the only other fighter I know who did that was Trinidad against Oscar so Carl is likely to be in exalted company.

He may have said more that made him sound less ridiculous but he's beginning to annoy me to such a degree I can't bear to hear his voice.

Definitely cheering for the underdog in this one.

by KingMonkey Tue 19 Nov 2013, 12:53 pm

Thing is, as much as I've found myself cheering for Groves I don't want this to be the end of Froch, which is almost certain should he lose.

Conflicting emotions f'sure.

by Guest Tue 19 Nov 2013, 1:13 pm

Unless he's knocked out cold and that's unlikely, should Froch lose to Groves there'll be a huge clamour for a rematch. Groves will be able to demand huge money and Adam Booth will be able to buy another big telly

Everyone is a winner.

by BoxingFan88 Tue 19 Nov 2013, 10:42 pm

Stella wrote:I'm no expert on boxing but like Froch and hope he beats Groves. My question to you experts is, which round?
A friend of mine is saying 3, but isn't Froch a 'wear them down' type of fighter. I'm saying round 9.

Froch hits plenty hard enough, you have to have a great chin or great defense to survive.

Pascal - Never been stopped
Dirrell - Never been stopped and has great defence
Abraham - Never been stopped
Kessler - Never been stopped
Ward - Never been stopped

etc...

Groves has been hurt multiple times and even been down when against a moderate puncher compared to Froch. He hits hard enough and had his level of opposition not been so high, he would have been blasting them out of there.

by Guest Wed 20 Nov 2013, 1:01 am

I was going to say the following "This match up was only made because they are both British. If Groves was not British (or vice versa Froch) there wouldn't be any interest in the fight because at face value it is a complete mismatch. The question is why would Groves take this fight"

But then I checked the world rankings and George Groves is rated about fifth to Carl Froch second (with Andre Ward the top rated super middleweight). So based on ratings this is a valid fight and Groves has a chance (maybe).

by mobilemaster8 Wed 20 Nov 2013, 7:45 am

The ranking system is garbage.

How does he get into 5th based on who he has fought so far?

He hasn't even beaten a top ten rated fighter, so how he jumps above them is beyond me.

He is also mandatory for the IBF hence the fight, but i think realistically, Hearn created this in order to generate a successful PPV.

Ie he manipulated a money spinning fight when in reality its a mismatch.

by Hammersmith harrier Wed 20 Nov 2013, 8:22 am

Groves beat Degale who is top ten and who's record below him is actually better?

by mobilemaster8 Wed 20 Nov 2013, 8:37 am

Neither were top ten when they fought Hammer........certainly shouldn't have been anyway.

Both were having a domestic bust up with genuine animosity from their respective amateur days hence the profile of the fight.

Prescott knocked out Amir Khan......neither were top ten but Khan is now at Welter.

by Hammersmith harrier Wed 20 Nov 2013, 8:55 am

Degale was ranked at 7/8 I think before the Groves fight, it's easy to say neither are deserving but who is actually more deserving?

Khan was ranked about 8th at lightweight when Prescott knocked him out who immediately jumped into the top ten.

by Lumbering_Jack Wed 20 Nov 2013, 10:36 am

I watched the tactics show on sky the other night.

Johnny Nelson always gets the short straw doesn't he. Got Groves and Audley in recent big domestic fights. I also find the tactics, especially with Johnny involved are rubbish.

by Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn Wed 20 Nov 2013, 10:44 am

mobilemaster8 wrote:The ranking system is garbage.

How does he get into 5th based on who he has fought so far?

He hasn't even beaten a top ten rated fighter, so how he jumps above them is beyond me.

He is also mandatory for the IBF hence the fight, but i think realistically, Hearn created this in order to generate a successful PPV.

Ie he manipulated a money spinning fight when in reality its a mismatch.

Who had Froch fought before he got his title shot???

Reid, Magee???

by mobilemaster8 Wed 20 Nov 2013, 10:47 am

Exactly reeborn. Knocked out McGee, had a good fight with Reid when he was still at a decent level.

Those fighters are way above groves list of opponents by a mile, IMO.

by Hammersmith harrier Wed 20 Nov 2013, 10:52 am

A shot Reid and a never was Mcgee better than a shot Johnson and a never might be Degale, I don't think there's a big difference really. People bang on about Groves' supposedly inflated ranking and not deserving the fight but who should Froch be fighting instead? Stieglitz who wouldn't fight outside of Germany and has a rubber match with Abraham in hi sights.

by mobilemaster8 Wed 20 Nov 2013, 11:07 am

Froch could fight Ward/Kessler 3/Stieglitz.....its a keep busy fight, fair enough.

don't think anyone's grumbling at the matchup.....but like ive always said, how can Groves justifiably be PPV?

by Hammersmith harrier Wed 20 Nov 2013, 11:11 am

How could any of those fights happened at a reasonable time for Froch.

Ward was injured, Kessler is set for retirement and Stieglitz wants Abraham, it's easy to throw names out there but you need to justify them.

by mobilemaster8 Wed 20 Nov 2013, 11:25 am

IM not bothered about the names though hammer, as i stated earlier.

I just think it shouldn't be PPV worthy AT ALL.

Froch is PPV but how can his fight with Bute (an undefeated world champ) be on regular Sky Sports, but for Groves (not world level let alone world champ) its PPV?

by Hammersmith harrier Wed 20 Nov 2013, 11:27 am

Groves is definitely a world level fighter, a fight between two well known english boxers for a world title is going to attract the casual fans more than a fight in which Froch was a heavy underdog.

by mobilemaster8 Wed 20 Nov 2013, 11:37 am

I don't think he is mate. I think he WILL be.....just not yet. He is unproven so how can he be?!

I understand that this battle for Britain is for casual sellers but for us not so casual fans, its a bit of a urine take from Eddie.

by Hammersmith harrier Wed 20 Nov 2013, 11:41 am

It's the casuals who bring in the money not the proper fans, the only indicator of whether it is PPV is how many buys it gets.

I don't think you have to be proven to be a world level fighter, Groves is highly ranked, highly regarded and highly skilled. He's higher than both european and domestic level, if beating Degale doesn't prove his level then who would?

by mobilemaster8 Wed 20 Nov 2013, 12:26 pm

He beat de gale a few years back now......both were green.

If beat any credible top ten name then fair enough.

i just don't guy the hype and think Froch will spark him cold....early.

by Hammersmith harrier Wed 20 Nov 2013, 12:29 pm

Who are the world level fighters in the 168lb division aside from Ward, Froch and Kessler then MM?

by mobilemaster8 Wed 20 Nov 2013, 12:36 pm

Bika? Steiglitz? Dirrell? AA? Even Oosthuizen? Rubio?

Apart from de gale, which "world level" fighter has he beaten?

Alcoba? Barakat? K Anderson?

by Hammersmith harrier Wed 20 Nov 2013, 12:41 pm

Who have Oosthuizen, Rubio and Bika beaten? Stieglitz only has a shop worn Abraham who in turn has lost every meaningful fight one of which is to the inactive Dirrell. The only one who is rightfully higher ranked than Groves is Stieglitz, the rest have done nothing to warrant being world level if Groves isn't.

by KingMonkey Wed 20 Nov 2013, 12:48 pm

mobilemaster8 wrote:IM not bothered about the names though hammer, as i stated earlier.

I just think it shouldn't be PPV worthy AT ALL.

Froch is PPV but how can his fight with Bute (an undefeated world champ) be on regular Sky Sports, but for Groves (not world level let alone world champ) its PPV?

It's timing. At the time Froch wasn't PPV but that fight shot him up there. Now he is....

by Hammersmith harrier Wed 20 Nov 2013, 12:50 pm

The current champion and the top ten ranked fighters and their wins over fellow top ten fighters.

Ward- Froch, Kessler, Abraham, Bika and the 175lb Dawson
Froch- Kessler, Bute, Abraham, Dirrell and 175lb Pascal
Bute- No one
Kessler- Froch
Stieglitz- Abraham
Groves- Degale
Abraham- Stieglitz
Oosthuizen- No one
Bika- No one
Degale- No one
Dirrell- Abraham

by mobilemaster8 Wed 20 Nov 2013, 1:05 pm

Degale win was controversial. I scored it to degale by two rounds.

plus, they were not nailed on top ten in the world fighters at the time. If they were then the tanking system seriously is a joke.

by mobilemaster8 Wed 20 Nov 2013, 1:06 pm

How can you say that King after his war with Kessler, his knockout of Mack and Taylor, his dustup with Pascal in a war and his demolition of Bute and Groves?

by Hammersmith harrier Wed 20 Nov 2013, 1:07 pm

I don't think you appreciate the fact that there has to be somebody more deserving of a top ten ranking.

by KingMonkey Wed 20 Nov 2013, 1:10 pm

Nobody knew about Froch's decent wins, well the casuals didn't and, as has been alluded to, they are the ones who make ppv viable. The Bute win on regular Sky shot Froch to the top in the UK despite the fact he should have already been there. From that point it is ppv all the way and if we're honest, the Kessler fight more than backed him up. Mack was never sellable so that goes regular Sky to see him get another KO. It's pretty well worked.

by Stella Mon 25 Nov 2013, 3:20 pm

Well I got the round right, except it sounds like a bad decision. A re-match is pending I take it?

by **Seanusarrilius** Mon 25 Nov 2013, 3:26 pm

Stella wrote:Well I got the round right, except it sounds like a bad decision. A re-match is pending I take it?

I imagine so. Big $ fight. Bigger than the first, and Froch has few options other than this. A Ward fight would be suicide. Stevenson at LH or GGG at SM don't bring enough money considering the risk of Froch being KO'd.

I say do Groves II, then retire.

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