Froch victory and Ward

Congrats Froch. I had it 117-112 with one shared. Johnson started well and looked powerful but our boy wore him down well and showed once again his chin in the process. I actually think Froch could of won it easier but still won it clearly the 114-114 card was a joke, even Johnson knew he lost. But fair play played out like most thought, Johnson is a beast and koing him is not possible unless he fights on till he completley shot. Interesting seeing Froch in ring with Ward. both very respectful, Ward looked a little shy but thats usually the case for the guy in the suit against the guy whose adrenilin is still pumping through his veins. Proud of our boy tonight, watched it on showtime but will downlaod it tomorrow if only for Jim Watts silly commentary, bet he had it even.

Viva la Froch. Please Please beat that grab n hold Ward (who i think may be on PED's, just throwing it out there)

*koff* Victor who?

Good win for Froch, who is building up a very respectable cv.

Cant wait for Ward, just hope its ref'ed and scored fairly.

Do you want to explain more about Ward and peds please?

He fought well without ever looking truly outstanding. A professional job. I had him winning by 4 points at the end.

Nice to see Froch using his boxing skills again though. He does seem much better at following and adopting a game plan than a few fights before, especially the Taylor and Kessler fights. This is obviously due to the huge amount of world class experience he is gaining.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Do you want to explain more about Ward and peds please?

Victor Conte, former head of BALCO, convicted drugs cheat, and probably the most disgraced man in the history of sport, is Ward's 'supplement' coach.

Froch should insist on Olympic style random blood testing as that is effectively what exposed Conte in the first place.

Not sure how much longer he can rely on his chin for, it's got to fail on him sooner or later with the kind of punches he takes although last night Johnson was hitting him flush and wasn't wobbling him at all.

Had it 117-112, scoring the first round even, Jim Watt is a joke of a commentator was freely admitting that Froch was doing all the best work yet as soon as Johnson landed one shot it was enough for him to win the round.

6 world class opponents in a row with 5 victories, that is some CV

Totally agree, Ghosty, Froch's CV is beginning to acquire the sort of sheen that only the greats from this country can boast. It's always difficult trying to assess a fighter's place before he retires, but at the moment, Froch must be somewhere around the top 15 fighters that this country has ever produced. He has the potential to go a great deal higher yet; the last half dozen fights or so of his career will make facinating viewing.

He has beaten 5 out of 6 fighters all of whom were in the top ten, perhaps even top 5 of his division.

His opposition over the past two years stands up to anyone's in the sport.

If he beats Ward whom he should rated higher than he'll be on the cusp of the top ten ATG brits without taking into account potential fights at Light Heavyweight

Hopefully he wont get slated for yesterdays victory which was always going to end up going that way, Johnson is possibly the one man in and around that division tougher than Froch

Agree with you both, basically. A win over Ward would put Carl on the cusp of our all-time top 10, as you say, while a subsequent victory over Bute, so removing all doubt about the identity of the premier 168 pounder, would make the top 10 a certainty. Success at 175 as well would make Froch a clear top 5 candidate - the standard of his opposition and his willingness to travel in order to face them are powerful factors in his favour.

He has to break the top ten if he beats Ward easily; you could possiblt even argue the top 5 due to his opposition.

6 world class opponents in a row with 5 victories, that is some CV

Soon to be 7 world class opponents in a row.

It is easily the best run or opposition a British boxer has faced, and Froch deserves massive credit for it.

Even in world terms who has had that sort of run of opposition over the last few years? Hopkins maybe?

ATG? not yet even if he does beat Ward. I think there are plenty great fights out there in light heavy for Carl and good luck to him. I have always liked him and the fact he is not the name in Britain that he wants to be due to poor promotion has just kept him hungry to prove himself.

He has fought the best and in their own back yard. Deserves enormous credit for that.

Think top 5 may be a bridge too far but Ward, Bute, Cleverly and Dawson would have him comfortably in the top ten and depending on success against those four he'd be right up there in the current p4p rankings which he should be already.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Think top 5 may be a bridge too far but Ward, Bute, Cleverly and Dawson would have him comfortably in the top ten and depending on success against those four he'd be right up there in the current p4p rankings which he should be already.

He'd be P4P #1, clearly, if he beat those guys.

If he beat Ward, But, Cleverley and Dawson, and it's a big IF; he would have to be well into the top five.

There is barely a British fighter in history and certainly not in the modern era; who has fought that kind of opposition so consistently.

Wilde, Lewis, Lewis and Welsh would still be a way ahead of him but he'd definitely be in the same bracket as the likes of Driscoll, Berg and dare I say it Calzaghe

For me Taylor, Kessler, and Johnson really stand out. The Pascal win has lost some shine after Hopkins just exposed an over rated, limited skilled fighter. I think the new boxer Froch would have beaten Pascal easily instead of going to war. I tell you what will make Froch great! If Dawson beats Hopkins then Froch v Dawson will cement greatness for Froch.

For me, Ward is the tough one. Although I think the Americans are going over the top with him, he is a quality fighter.

Bute is massively over-rated and is nowhere near as good as Froch or Ward; both of whom are battle tested against top class opposition.

Dawson's style is a tough one for Hopkins; but I wouldn't bet against the old man.

Very solid performance by Carl, I had him 4 rounds up in the end. He looked the far more dangerous of the two when he let his hands go and used his body to head combinations. He took some big shots last night and I don't think he fliinched so his chin is showing no signs of failing. He does look an a lot more well rounded fighter now than when he started the super six and I think he can definately win it.

His next fights look like been Ward and Bute and I agree with most. If he wins them he's an absolute shoe in for a top 10 place and wouldn't be far off top 5. He will need to up his workrate again for Ward though as if he doesn't Ward could nick rounds and make it very difficult for Carl. Very much looking forward to it though.

You gotta love boxing today. Froch has so many option open to him after the super 6 finishes.

Ward will probably steal a decision against Froch, but Froch won't ship much punishment (not from punches anyway) from the feather fisted spoiler. Therefore his stock won't drop too much. After that we have some great potential matchups.

Froch v Bute
Froch v Kessler rematch
Froch v Pascal rematch
Froch v Hopkins
Froch v Cleverley in a couple years.

ANd then there's Dawson, Cloud, maybe a Ward rematch...the list goes on.

Should be a great fight. Hopefully be on more neutral ground as Ward is a homer!

Dawson's style is a tough one for Hopkins; but I wouldn't bet against the old man
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Well you can never bet against Hopkins but he cant keep defying the odds like he is, plus Dawson has Mr Steward in his corner.

Good result for Froch. I knew it wouldnt be an easy fight as Johnson has always proven himself to be a tough night for anyone, even at 42.

I was leaning towards Froch winning a close UD but had Johnson as a live underdog.
It was never going to be as comfortable as the Abraham fight.

Hopefully, Froch will be on top of his game against Ward, who is currently the best SMW around imo.

Despite his connections with Conte, I don't think Ward is on PED's. Looking at his style, career and conditioning, there's nothing to really suggest he is.

I think Ward will beat Froch. It won't be an easy fight for him but I think he'll take a fairly close, competitive UD.
I also feel that Froch would get beaten by Lucian Bute, possibly by KO.

samevans1 wrote:Should be a great fight. Hopefully be on more neutral ground as Ward is a homer!

I'm not sure Ward will ever be involved in a great fight. It will be a fascinating match up though and I'll definitely be watching. Two top, top class operators in their prime fighting like this is what boxing has missed over the last 20+ years. It will be a bit of a chess match IMO, almost the polar opposite of last nights fight.

Was pleased, on the whole, with what I saw from my fellow Nottingham man last night. The obvious problem? The low left making him a sucker for the big right hand. Mind you, that's always been a 'problem' for Froch (the Abraham fight aside) and, as ever, he shrugged it off with his usual aplomb last night. Thought Watt was very, very critical at times; Johnson's punches may have been the 'bigger' of the two, but for every one that the 'Road Warrior' landed Froch was usually landing two or three, and if it comes down to who was producing the better pure boxing, then I'd have scored it to Froch even more comfortably than I did (I had it 116-112, for what it's worth).

I worry about the bout with Ward for reasons detached from actual boxing, and I'm sure most will know what I mean there. It's going to be in America (where, thus far, Ward has been getting away with murder) and Froch is going to be facing a truly ugly style. One positive is that Ward isn't going to be forcing Froch on the back foot the way Johnson did - mind you, while he looked uncomfortable going backwards in the opening stages, I actually think Froch boxed well off the back foot from the mid stages onwards.

I think he's got it all to do if he's going to beat Ward, but he's more than capable.

Decent performance from froch, although I feel he'll have to box a lot better than that to beat Ward. Ward will nut, spoil and make it an ugly fight but he does also possess speed (which froch has struggled with) and excellent fundamentals. With froch being so easy to hit I worry that ward will just land on him too much and take a decision - especially with it being in the states where, as chris rightly says, ward has gotten away with murder. Froch is tougher than ward, I don't see him outboxing the yank aa hes too ungainly and easy to hit, but he can out muscle him, out fight him, out tough him and take him out of his comfort zone. For me that should be his plan - get in there and show ward who's boss, don't take any of his nonsense and basically stick it to him and try to win on aggression.

I can see ward getting past frochs jab, landing two shots on the insdoe and holding. It will nick him the rounds. Froch takes a while sometimes to get in the fight and comes strong at the end. Its about time he was on UK tv, he deserved it as britains clear p4p #1. He has a pool of talent to chose from. Although I think he should go ward, bute, Kessler in that order, I feel that a victory over Hopkins would be the pinnacle of his career. He should also be looking at any of cleverly, Dawson, cloud, pascal rematch, groves/degale and maybe even sillakh, who could be a top fighter at LHW by then. The thing is I don't think he will fight that many times as he is ageing and his style may shorten his career. I think that if a LHW connects with frochs chin like Dawson did we may see him being KO

Johnson used to fight at light heavyweight and probably hits harder than the likes of Pascal, Dawson, Hopkins, Cleverly or Cloud, none of whom are known for being big punchers.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Do you want to explain more about Ward and peds please?

I do not really believe it altho i heard he was involved with a guy Conte is it? dodgy supplements so i defo think Ward needs to be kept an eye on. To be honest i think the PED thing in boxing is pretty prevelant and without testing it will get worse because if you think the guy you are fighting may be on them then whats to stop you doing the same?

Good win for Froch and probably the kind of fight most people predicted.

However there is definately things to be concerned with in the context of the Ward fight. I didnt really agre with Watts scoring, but he was right in that Froch is just too reactive in generl and too happy to let his his opponent dictate terms. I think he should have tried to impose himself more and its this reason that I think cost him the Kessler fight.

Also, hes very easy to hit and relies on having a good chin. When he is hit he always comes back with punches but again I think alot of what he was coming back with were being caught on the gloves by Johnson and not landing cleanly wheras Johnson landed cleaner and bigger punches in many cases.

I would tip Ward to beat him at the moment as I think Froch will struggle more with the tactically smarter and slicker fighters. Fighters like Pascal, Johnson, Abraham, Kessler, Cleverly, Bute etc are the kind of fighters that suit Froch but I feel Ward will pose too many problems if he can handle Frochs power.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Johnson used to fight at light heavyweight and probably hits harder than the likes of Pascal, Dawson, Hopkins, Cleverly or Cloud, none of whom are known for being big punchers.

But that wasn't johnson at 175 was it. Before last night, he had one fight at SMW so im not sure of he hits as hard at this weight them he used to. A 175 fighter will naturally be that little bit heavier handed. I'm sure cloud, pascal and Hopkins can match johnsons power. Johnson, whenever he landed that right, didn't really land anything clean afterwards. I think other fighters would be able to hit him flush multiple times. He takes full blooded shots on his chin, he can't afford to do that as he jumps up in weight and his punch resistance somewhat wears off which it could

manos de piedra wrote:Good win for Froch and probably the kind of fight most people predicted.

However there is definately things to be concerned with in the context of the Ward fight. I didnt really agre with Watts scoring, but he was right in that Froch is just too reactive in generl and too happy to let his his opponent dictate terms. I think he should have tried to impose himself more and its this reason that I think cost him the Kessler fight.

Also, hes very easy to hit and relies on having a good chin. When he is hit he always comes back with punches but again I think alot of what he was coming back with were being caught on the gloves by Johnson and not landing cleanly wheras Johnson landed cleaner and bigger punches in many cases.

I would tip Ward to beat him at the moment as I think Froch will struggle more with the tactically smarter and slicker fighters. Fighters like Pascal, Johnson, Abraham, Kessler, Cleverly, Bute etc are the kind of fighters that suit Froch but I feel Ward will pose too many problems if he can handle Frochs power.

what was watts scoring (i saw it on showtime) and what did the sky studio lot think mate? I am keen to know how it went down this side of things. Also if anyone has UK links i would love to watch it. The showtime lot had froch winnning and celebrated his warrior instinct too. Tarver thinks pretty highly of Froch too. Good coverage. Did ypou see Bute sitting in the wings hahahaha, off to Romania to fight the local baker or something, Froch is number 1 in the division Ward 2, Kessler 3, Bute barely breaks my top 4 on oppositon faced

175lber wont be naturally heavier handed at all, it depends purely on the fighters in question and considering the evidence in front of me I doubt Pascal or Hopkins could match Johnson for power, the latter of whom hasn't scored a knockout victory since De La Hoya many years ago and whom seems to have little power at the weight. When you've got a chin as good as Frochs then 7lbs isn't going to make you suddenly likely to be KO'd by guys not known for being power punchers. Johnson didn't land anything after his right hands because Froch protects his right side far better than his left side.

Seanusarrilius wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Good win for Froch and probably the kind of fight most people predicted.

However there is definately things to be concerned with in the context of the Ward fight. I didnt really agre with Watts scoring, but he was right in that Froch is just too reactive in generl and too happy to let his his opponent dictate terms. I think he should have tried to impose himself more and its this reason that I think cost him the Kessler fight.

Also, hes very easy to hit and relies on having a good chin. When he is hit he always comes back with punches but again I think alot of what he was coming back with were being caught on the gloves by Johnson and not landing cleanly wheras Johnson landed cleaner and bigger punches in many cases.

I would tip Ward to beat him at the moment as I think Froch will struggle more with the tactically smarter and slicker fighters. Fighters like Pascal, Johnson, Abraham, Kessler, Cleverly, Bute etc are the kind of fighters that suit Froch but I feel Ward will pose too many problems if he can handle Frochs power.

what was watts scoring (i saw it on showtime) and what did the sky studio lot think mate? I am keen to know how it went down this side of things. Also if anyone has UK links i would love to watch it. The showtime lot had froch winnning and celebrated his warrior instinct too. Tarver thinks pretty highly of Froch too. Good coverage. Did ypou see Bute sitting in the wings hahahaha, off to Romania to fight the local baker or something, Froch is number 1 in the division Ward 2, Kessler 3, Bute barely breaks my top 4 on oppositon faced

Watt ended up scoring it to Froch by 3 I think which wasnt too bad overall. He had a couple of rounds even I think also. But occasionally he seems to score a round based on how the judges might see it rather than on what the action is. If you watched the Haye v Valuev fight he did something similar there and was giving Valuev rounds based on him just coming forward despite contradicting himslef and saying Hayes work was better.

I think the two big negatives for Froch were the ease at which Johnson was able to hit him - which was identified by both the U.S and U.K teams. The other was probably not imposing himself enough. Quite often he would only come back with his own work after Johnson had caught him when he was forced onto the back foot rather than looking to boss the round. I think Watt felt this was leaving some of the closer rounds to open to interpretation with the judges when Froch could have seized control of them more decisively. He had a point because one judge ended up with a draw which was a very poor reflection of the fight.

Overall the studio identified the weakness where Johnson was able to land many big overhand rights, but praised Froch for his chin, stamina and ability to come back with flurries of punches when he did get tagged. The overall opinion being that he did well overall with one or two things he could tighten up on in defence.

Jim watt was cracking me up, Froch landed at a ratio of 10:1 and johnson lands one good right hand and he gives Johnson the round. I had Froch winning clearly based on the way the fight went, didn't score it in rounds though. Great fight, just wish Froch would stop proving to us how good his chin is.....

Seanusarrilius wrote:Viva la Froch. Please Please beat that grab n hold Ward (who i think may be on PED's, just throwing it out there)

Personally I hate Froch. He is the most detestable man in English boxing and if you wanna suck up to him thats your choice but you wanna pipe down with accusing other fighters of being on PEDs mate

Steffan wrote:

Seanusarrilius wrote:Viva la Froch. Please Please beat that grab n hold Ward (who i think may be on PED's, just throwing it out there)

Personally I hate Froch. He is the most detestable man in English boxing and if you wanna suck up to him thats your choice but you wanna pipe down with accusing other fighters of being on PEDs mate

Comedy gold. Cheers for that Welshy!

Personally I hate Froch. He is the most detestable man in English boxing
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I agree Steffan, a British fighter only going after proper belts, fighting good fighters back to back in fights that tend to be entertaining and travelling overseas to make all that happen, he's a scumbag and the last thing the sport needs I can't stand him either. Just glad you have valid reasons to hate him, would be pathetic to think you disliked him solely for saying nasty things about Calzaghe.

rowley wrote:Personally I hate Froch. He is the most detestable man in English boxing
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I agree Steffan, a British fighter only going after proper belts, fighting good fighters back to back in fights that tend to be entertaining and travelling overseas to make all that happen, he's a scumbag and the last thing the sport needs I can't stand him either. Just glad you have valid reasons to hate him, would be pathetic to think you disliked him solely for saying nasty things about Calzaghe.

Ok then Froch does not act like a slimey school bully. Silly me. Yeah I hate him because of Joe bla bla bla. Change the record mate

steffan . I'm welsh like yourself and I think froch is most entertaining and best fighter Britain has.

BoxingFan88 wrote:steffan . I'm welsh like yourself and I think froch is most entertaining and best fighter Britain has.

Personally I think Khan is the most entertaining fighter from England. One minute he looks like hes gonna get sparked next minute he looks like hes gonna KO the other guy

And I aint the one bringing natinality into this fellas I dislike Froch fullstop nothing to do with nationality

How do you come to the conclusion that Froch is a school bully?

Imperial Ghosty wrote:How do you come to the conclusion that Froch is a school bully?

He's a dead ringer (ahem) for the one that sodomised poor steffan so badly in high school.

Khan's the most entertaining fighter fo' sho'. That McCloskey fight was MAGIC!

Bob wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:How do you come to the conclusion that Froch is a school bully?

He's a dead ringer (ahem) for the one that sodomised poor steffan so badly in high school.

Cant say I was ever bullied in school to be honest. Glad of that. Felt sorry for the kids who were though. Froch reminds me of the bullies though. Not a nice person at all

Steffan wrote:And I aint the one bringing natinality into this fellas I dislike Froch fullstop nothing to do with nationality

Seriously Steffy, you should do stand up, mate!