Animal Lovers

belovedfrosties wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Folks,
I avoided the thread because it seemed a place where emotions would run.  But having read this, I am mistaken and it is a credit to everyone that disagreements and opinions were shared in a respectful manner.  It is threads like this which is why I like and enjoy the people on 606v2.   Some day if we have the chance or good luck to meet, the first one is on me.

There are really so many points here that it is hard to comment.  I don't hunt and I really, really don't like guns.  But I have friends who do hunt and I suppose it is something not for me.  

I also understand how hunting to certain limits does keep animal herd populations at manageable levels.  Overpopulation leading to more unfortunate contact with people and eventual starving of the populations.  Living here in northern New Jersey, it is extremely rare for a week to go by without seeing a deer corpse on the side of the road.  Everyone here has either has hit a deer or knows someone who has.  Deer hunts help reduce the number of deer in more populated areas.  We also have brown/black bear.  Don't see them so much, maybe a half-dozen to a dozen times per year, but overpopulation drives them to more populated areas and more danger of accidents.  So I get the need for hunting, but as I said, just not for me.  I can only imagine how living in areas where there is more contact with more different species could lead to more problems.  

I do like the Darwinian aspect of hunting animals armed with only with nature's own gifts and not with man-made weapons.  Probably the only type of hunting appropriate for people like Bachman and Palin.  Idiots and somewhat dangerous ones at that.

Again, some valid points in this but the key point is that no animals will ever become overpopulated (and stay that way) in an ecosystem without human interference.  The high numbers of deer that need to be culled are normally due to the human population killing native predators (like wolves) due to the claim that they kill livestock.  FYI, they don't, there have been numerous studies that show that livestock losses are negligible and easily covered by the farmers insurance and that if the predators main prey species is in reasonable supply they will ignore other species.  I highly doubt that the bear species is overpopulated (i could be wrong, but it is very rarely the case), whats more likely is local habitat destruction/degradation/hunting has removed their main food source so they have had to leave their normal habitat to find food and wandered into town where there is an abundance of leftovers.  This is why you often see them scavenging around rubbish sites, food is just so much easier to find there than in the wild.

This  reminds me of a story i once heard about a women in Montana (i think) who was concerned for the wild horse population.  She explained how every year there wasn't enough food for the population so she and others would have to go and put food out there so they wouldn't starve to death.  This had gone on for years until the population had become so large as to be unmanageable.  Her solution to this was to find a predator that would kill horses.  So she looked around the world for other members of the equine family and what ate them and stumbled across zebra and had her eureka moment.  Yes, this woman wanted to introduce a LION population into Montana to control the horse population that would have controlled itself, had it not been for this fool of a woman feeding them every year.  

Nature has done a remarkable job of managing itself for millions of years, it's man that screws it up and we should leave nature to nature as much as we can, wherever we can.

Mr Fishpaste wrote:

\"belovedfrosties wrote: Again, some valid points in this but the key point is that no animals will ever become overpopulated (and stay that way) in an ecosystem without human interference.  The high numbers of deer that need to be culled are normally due to the human population killing native predators (like wolves) due to the claim that they kill livestock.  FYI, they don't, there have been numerous studies that show that livestock losses are negligible and easily covered by the farmers insurance and that if the predators main prey species is in reasonable supply they will ignore other species.  I highly doubt that the bear species is overpopulated (i could be wrong, but it is very rarely the case), whats more likely is local habitat destruction/degradation/hunting has removed their main food source so they have had to leave their normal habitat to find food and wandered into town where there is an abundance of leftovers.  This is why you often see them scavenging around rubbish sites, food is just so much easier to find there than in the wild.

Nature has done a remarkable job of managing itself for millions of years, it's man that screws it up and we should leave nature to nature as much as we can, wherever we can.

This is completely true. However, the problem in most of the world, is that humans have already done irreversible damage. In fact our mere presence excludes most big game from their natural habitat.  So given that animals are restricted to limited areas, conservationists have to cull to maintain the balance within those areas. Many species of African game would natural have very large ranges, and many of them were once migratory. Because their range is now limited, their natural behavioural patterns have been altered. Hence if left to their own devices, within the confines of a park, they would not be able to maintain the inter-species balance - hence human intervention is necessary to compensate for the original human intrusion.

alive555 wrote:This is whats happening on Botswana Private reserves all in the name of conservation.  

Typical hunter going to Botswana for Trophy hunting. Pays to kill. This time elephants.

wtf do u need to travel half way round the world to kill a lovely animal such as this ? unless your a deranged murderer.

The guy is certifiable.

http://blogs.canoe.ca/slam/sports/nbc-sports-network-cancels-outdoor-show/

Biltong wrote:South Africa has 19 National Parks, two of which is combined efforts between us Namibia and Botswana, it comprises over 7 million hectares of protected land for fauna and flora, this does not include the private reserves in South Africa.

That totals 70 000 square kilometers of nature and wildlife reserves.

I reckon we do our bit for conservation.