New European Rugby cup (or whatever it is called) - Qualification agreed

First topic message reminder :

TJ wrote:What the PRL said.  They were saying how much the RCC was worth and how much each union would get from it.  That implies they had "sold" all the games.

They haven't specifically said how much it will be worth, just that there will be more money than the ERC have negotiated because of what they've managed to negotiate and what the French are expecting to get.  They won't know for certain what it is worth until the French have sold their rights.  The LNR ccertainly wouldn't be on board with the PLR if they had sold rights to their games, and there wouldn't be the money they are alluding to if they had.

Sin e IRB regulations are that Unions have the rights for games under their jurisdiction, RFU relinquished these in the ESP agreement. It doesnt matter where they are shown that depends on the agreement with who they sold them to, so WRU have the rights to Ospreys home games. If you have any proof that PRL have sold anything other than their home games please share it

wayne wrote:

Sin é wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:

Sin é wrote:England and English teams really need to remember that when it comes selling broadcasting rights, they are effectively 1/3 of a country. How can a Welsh or Scottish club sell the rights to their own fames when playing against an English club in the UK if England have already sold the rights to BT.

The UK issue has nothing to do with it. The English control the rights to the games played in England, regardless of who is playing them and where it is broadcast. The Welsh control the rights to games played in Wales. What has the UK got to do with it?

Is it possible to sell broadcasting rights to a part of one country? BT broadcast in the UK, not just England. Who would be interested in buying the rights to Welsh team games when playing English teams if they are already available to them on FTA BT?

Just to clarify what I mean: Ospreys v Northampton - Ospreys can't sell them to their home market (Wales) because Wales is part of the UK.

Sin e, who has the rights to Ospreys v Leinster in the Rabo with Ospreys at home?

The Rabo League (who sells all the rights to several braodcaster and then splits the money). Similar to how ERC operates except in the past Sky have bought exclusive rights to the UK & Ireland.

broadlandboy wrote:Sin e IRB regulations are that Unions have the rights for games under their jurisdiction, RFU relinquished these in the ESP agreement. It doesnt matter where they are shown that depends on the agreement with who they sold them to, so WRU have the rights to Ospreys home games. If you have any proof that PRL have sold anything other than their home games please share it

I'm just curious as to know how the PRL going it alone is going to work out for the Welsh, Scottish & Ulster (all in BT's broadcasting area)?

Its wouldn't affect Republic of Ireland teams, French or Italian as they are in different broadcasting areas.

Sin e you seem to be misunderstanding something. For Ospreys v Saints, it won't be available by BT unless the WRU sell the rights to them. However, Saints v Ospreys would be on BT. Exactly the same as Leinster v Saints and Saints v Leinster. BT own the rights for the game in PLAYED in England. It has no impact whatsoever on the sale of rights for other UK participants. Other than the general idea of selling all rights together as a package.

Sin é wrote:

wayne wrote:

Sin é wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:

Sin é wrote:England and English teams really need to remember that when it comes selling broadcasting rights, they are effectively 1/3 of a country. How can a Welsh or Scottish club sell the rights to their own fames when playing against an English club in the UK if England have already sold the rights to BT.

The UK issue has nothing to do with it. The English control the rights to the games played in England, regardless of who is playing them and where it is broadcast. The Welsh control the rights to games played in Wales. What has the UK got to do with it?

Is it possible to sell broadcasting rights to a part of one country? BT broadcast in the UK, not just England. Who would be interested in buying the rights to Welsh team games when playing English teams if they are already available to them on FTA BT?

Just to clarify what I mean: Ospreys v Northampton - Ospreys can't sell them to their home market (Wales) because Wales is part of the UK.

Sin e, who has the rights to Ospreys v Leinster in the Rabo with Ospreys at home?

The Rabo League (who sells all the rights to several braodcaster and then splits the money). Similar to how ERC operates except in the past Sky have bought exclusive rights to the UK & Ireland.

WRONG, as BB states above the individual Unions, in our case the WRU, if you are at home it is the IRFU, the 6 Unions ceded the rights to the ERC for the HC, the PRL have sold the rights to games WITHIN THE JURISDICTION of the RFU, under the new competition the Ospreys versus any team would come under the auspices of the WRU, UNLESS they cede them to somebody else. (hopefully to RRW).

Well the Pro12 do pool the rights and sell them collectively to several arms of the BBC and RTE. The money raised from from each region is given to the union that broadcaster covers. So WRU get the BBCW money.

However this is not how the ownership of the rights is set out by the IRB. It's a choice that the Pro12 unions made (and completely shafts the SRU)

HammerofThunor wrote:Sin e you seem to be misunderstanding something. For Ospreys v Saints, it won't be available by BT unless the WRU sell the rights to them. However, Saints v Ospreys would be on BT. Exactly the same as Leinster v Saints and Saints v Leinster. BT own the rights for the game in PLAYED in England. It has no impact whatsoever on the sale of rights for other UK participants. Other than the general idea of selling all rights together as a package.

So the WRU could sell their rights to SKY who might make it a condition that they have exclusive rights in the UK. The Northampton fans have to get Sky to watch their Away games then!

If an Irish club is playing an English club, can the IRFU sell the broadcasting rights for the Irish homes games to be broadcast in the UK!

This might work out quite well for non-UK countries!

Sin é wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Sin e you seem to be misunderstanding something. For Ospreys v Saints, it won't be available by BT unless the WRU sell the rights to them. However, Saints v Ospreys would be on BT. Exactly the same as Leinster v Saints and Saints v Leinster. BT own the rights for the game in PLAYED in England. It has no impact whatsoever on the sale of rights for other UK participants. Other than the general idea of selling all rights together as a package.

So the WRU could sell their rights to SKY who might make it a condition that they have exclusive rights in the UK. The Northampton fans have to get Sky to watch their Away games then!

If an Irish club is playing an English club, can the IRFU sell the broadcasting rights for the Irish homes games to be broadcast in the UK!

This might work out quite well for non-UK countries!

Yes that's all true.

HammerofThunor wrote:Well the Pro12 do pool the rights and sell them collectively to several arms of the BBC and RTE. The money raised from from each region is given to the union that broadcaster covers. So WRU get the BBCW money.

However this is not how the ownership of the rights is set out by the IRB. It's a choice that the Pro12 unions made (and completely shafts the SRU)

Yes you are right the SRU are shafted. I was just showing Sin how he was wrong

Unless of course the claim that the PRL sold the rights to all English games, home and away, is true. From what was said by the PRL, regarding the RFU giving them the rights, I don't think this is right.

IMSVHO Sin e that is correct,it is just that PRL agreed to put the money into a shared pot, Also IRFU & WRU would only have a maximum of 4 home games each with SRU & FIR having 2 each. Whether a broadcaster would value them all together the same as the PRL home games only the market would decide.

wayne wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Well the Pro12 do pool the rights and sell them collectively to several arms of the BBC and RTE. The money raised from from each region is given to the union that broadcaster covers. So WRU get the BBCW money.

However this is not how the ownership of the rights is set out by the IRB. It's a choice that the Pro12 unions made (and completely shafts the SRU)

Yes you are right the SRU are shafted. I was just showing Sin how he was wrong

If the SRU are shafted, bearing in mind the IRFU's support of Scotland and Italy, its probably down to the debt ridden Welsh clubs if they are shafted.

Any proof that they are?

broadlandboy wrote:IMSVHO Sin e that is correct,it is just that PRL agreed to put the money into a shared pot, Also IRFU & WRU would only have a maximum of 4 home games each with SRU & FIR having 2 each. Whether a broadcaster would value them all together the same as the PRL home games only the market would decide.

What a mess!

Surely they would value English teams playing games outside of England more than their home games - i.e., not all fans can travel to the games so more viewers on tv, so worth more!

The money is split by how much each region pays. The SRU 'own' a sixth of the games played. So they should get a 6th of the TV money (do more people watch Leinster v Glasgow than Glasgow v Leinster?). They don't. There was an article that said the WRU get 80% of the money generated by the Pro12 TV.

It will get a lot better for SRU with the Sky deal as they get a fifth of it (Italy don't get any).

I'll have a look to see if I can find that article saying the WRU get 80% but from memory it was mostly speculation.

Edit: above refers to Pro12

Sin é wrote:

broadlandboy wrote:IMSVHO Sin e that is correct,it is just that PRL agreed to put the money into a shared pot, Also IRFU & WRU would only have a maximum of 4 home games each with SRU & FIR having 2 each. Whether a broadcaster would value them all together the same as the PRL home games only the market would decide.

What a mess!

Surely they would value English teams playing games outside of England more than their home games - i.e., not all fans can travel to the games so more viewers on tv, so worth more!

Who would value it? Broadcasters? PRL?

Here's the article. It was speculation and 70% to WRU was the guess.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/sky-signs-four-year-deal-3475362

Forgot that there would be 18 home games from the Hec & 18 from Amlin so 36 home games while Rabo teams would only have 12

HammerofThunor wrote:

Sin é wrote:

broadlandboy wrote:IMSVHO Sin e that is correct,it is just that PRL agreed to put the money into a shared pot, Also IRFU & WRU would only have a maximum of 4 home games each with SRU & FIR having 2 each. Whether a broadcaster would value them all together the same as the PRL home games only the market would decide.

What a mess!

Surely they would value English teams playing games outside of England more than their home games - i.e., not all fans can travel to the games so more viewers on tv, so worth more!

Who would value it? Broadcasters? PRL?

All interested parties would have their specialists involved. (IRFU, WRU, SRU, PRL, RRW, FRU  & various potential broadcasters).

When it comes to selling it to other countries (SH, US, China etc - Six Nations is sold to 182 different broadcasters), how would the money from the sale of those be divided? And who would sell the rights in the first place?

HammerofThunor wrote:Here's the article. It was speculation and 70% to WRU was the guess.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/sky-signs-four-year-deal-3475362

Scotland & Italy have only 2 teams (ie., half the overheads of the Irish or Welsh). Considering the state of the Welsh Regions finances, it doesn't surprise me that they demand the lions share.

The Irish Provinces do very well with viewing numbers - Munster / Leinster games would have and average of about 200-250K watching their games - more than double what the English clubs would get.

Well they belong to the union that hosts the games. The PRL's suggestion was that it all gets pooled and split equally by league (of course they do). Often a broadcast deal would sell the international rights to a company and then they would sell it on (after all they take on all the production costs).

Sin é wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Here's the article. It was speculation and 70% to WRU was the guess.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/sky-signs-four-year-deal-3475362

Scotland & Italy have only 2 teams (ie., half the overheads of the Irish or Welsh). Considering the state of the Welsh Regions finances, it doesn't surprise me that they demand the lions share.

The Irish Provinces do very well with viewing numbers - Munster / Leinster games would have and average of about 200-250K watching their games - more than double what the English clubs would get.

Yeah, the TV money should be split by number of games owned by each union. So the SRU get 16.7%, FIR 16.7%, WRU 33.3% and IRFU 33.3%.

I hope you're not suggesting that because more people watch the Irish teams they should get more than the Scottish teams (per team)

Also are you comparing FTA with subscription for the Irish and English games? If so half is pretty good (or double isn't great). Interested to know how many arm chair fans the regions get. I reckon it's a lot.

the TV money should be split by what the TV rights are commercially worth in each country to show all the HC/AC matches.

just like how football monetises the Champions League. it's the only objectively fair way to do it.

anything else relies on "fairness"...and that's hardly fair is it?

I am under the impression that there is no pooling of TV deals in Celtic league. Each Union sells their teams home games to their local broadcaster and retains the proceeds. There also seems to be little importing of away games - BBCWales and S4C generally show only Regions home games, BBCAlba show Scottish home games, etc.
This is why the Sky deal could be so good for Pro12, unifying the fragmented broadcasts.

No. Quite often multiple BBC arms show the same game. The rights for all the games are pooled and the unions get the money from their region, not just for their rights.

The Sky deal is for just one game a week (replaces Jeff game). It is expected BBC et al will renew their contract for the remaining games (I don't think it's been sorted yet).

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:I am under the impression that there is no pooling of TV deals in Celtic league. Each Union sells their teams home games to their local broadcaster and retains the proceeds. There also seems to be little importing of away games - BBCWales and S4C generally show only Regions home games, BBCAlba show Scottish home games, etc.
This is why the Sky deal could be so good for Pro12, unifying the fragmented broadcasts.

Not true in Ulster

I doubt if I miss more than 2, at most, games a year - the rest are on the TV.

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:I am under the impression that there is no pooling of TV deals in Celtic league. Each Union sells their teams home games to their local broadcaster and retains the proceeds. There also seems to be little importing of away games - BBCWales and S4C generally show only Regions home games, BBCAlba show Scottish home games, etc.
This is why the Sky deal could be so good for Pro12, unifying the fragmented broadcasts.

I don't know how you get the impression that there is no pooling of tv deals. There seems to be great co-operation between the broadcoasters though and they do manage to show nearly all games in the league between them.

For instance, the Ulster game on Saturday was on BBCNI and on RTE2, so in that instance the IRFU would have had to deal with two broadcasters!

The Pro 12 (Celtic Rugby Ltd) is managed by the Six Nations Company who have a lot of experience in selling multiple broadcasting rights. I'd imagine they do all of this rather than the individual countries involved.

How the broadcasting money is split is more than likely down to the number of games broadcast for each team so obviously, Welsh teams would have double the games that that the Scots or Italians who have two teams each.

No sin e . The only thing the prl wanted bar the financial split and the fairer allocation was to actually deal with tv deals and have quoted 

'As it's done in the 6 nations'

Individual countries sort out there own tv deals.

Sin é wrote:

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:I am under the impression that there is no pooling of TV deals in Celtic league. Each Union sells their teams home games to their local broadcaster and retains the proceeds. There also seems to be little importing of away games - BBCWales and S4C generally show only Regions home games, BBCAlba show Scottish home games, etc.
This is why the Sky deal could be so good for Pro12, unifying the fragmented broadcasts.

I don't know how you get the impression that there is no pooling of tv deals. There seems to be great co-operation between the broadcoasters though and they do manage to show nearly all games in the league between them.

For instance, the Ulster game on Saturday was on BBCNI and on RTE2, so in that instance the IRFU would have had to deal with two broadcasters!

The Pro 12 (Celtic Rugby Ltd) is managed by the Six Nations Company who have a lot of experience in selling multiple broadcasting rights. I'd imagine they do all of this rather than the individual countries involved.

How the broadcasting money is split is more than likely down to the number of games broadcast for each team so obviously, Welsh teams would have double the games that that the Scots or Italians who have two teams each.

I don't think it is. It's split by how much each region generates. So the IRFU get the money from RTE and BBCNI. SRU get the money from BBC Alba and the WRU get the money from BBCW and S4C (if that's not BBC money).

There was an SRU official complaining about BBC Alba not stumpling up much cash, which means they don't get much for the Pro12. And there was that article I posted earlier that said the WRU get the majority of the Pro12 TV money because most comes from BBCW.

Although the BBC TV deals are shrouded in mystery with very few details emerging.

Wales online wrote:The current agreement with the terrestrial broadcasters is believed to be around just over £5m a year. However, with the vast majority of the funding coming from the Welsh broadcasters, this is reflected in how money is distributed by Celtic Rugby to the three unions. While not disclosed it is understood that the vast majority goes to the WRU.

So, the payment of broadcasting rights is not based on population size like the English would like us to think.

Population of Wales: 3m
Population of Scotland: 5.2m
Population of island of Ireland: 6.9m
Population of Italy: 60m.

Wales, with the smallest population of the PRO 12 teams gets the most broadcasting money.

No Sin e it is based on what the rights holder can get? As shown by PRL getting more for the PRL rights than ERC can get for exclusive rights for the UK & Ireland. Funny how France & Italy can negotiate their own.

Sin é wrote:So, the payment of broadcasting rights is not based on population size like the English would like us to think.

Population of Wales: 3m
Population of Scotland: 5.2m
Population of island of Ireland: 6.9m
Population of Italy: 60m.

Wales, with the smallest population of the PRO 12 teams gets the most broadcasting money.

It's based on how much they raise from their own region/country. In that report by the IRFU saying the ERC should remain off FTA they commented that the IRFU get a lot more back than is generated in Ireland. I suppose it's a good job the 6 Nations and ERC competitions are not split the same way the Pro12 is.

Also, we have no idea how much Italy make from the PRO12. They're complete excluded from the UK TV deal money. So they get what they can raise in Italy (even though the FIR own the rights to all the games in Italy). Maybe they make shedloads. Maybe they make bugger all.

broadlandboy wrote:No Sin e it is based on what the rights holder can get? As shown by PRL getting more for the PRL rights than ERC can get for exclusive rights for the UK & Ireland. Funny how France & Italy can negotiate their own.

France, Italy and Republic of Ireland can negotiate their own because they are separate political identities.

Wales, England, Scotland & N Ireland have to be together becuause they are a combined political territory.

And we don't know what England can get becuase its top secret (and apparently reliant on a number of countries pitching up to play in England).

Sin é wrote:

broadlandboy wrote:No Sin e it is based on what the rights holder can get? As shown by PRL getting more for the PRL rights than ERC can get for exclusive rights for the UK & Ireland. Funny how France & Italy can negotiate their own.

France, Italy and Republic of Ireland can negotiate their own because they are separate political identities.

Wales, England, Scotland & N Ireland have to be together becuause they are a combined political territory.

And we don't know what England can get becuase its top secret (and apparently reliant on a number of countries pitching up to play in England).

Why do you keep saying that? It's not true.

HammerofThunor wrote:

Sin é wrote:So, the payment of broadcasting rights is not based on population size like the English would like us to think.

Population of Wales: 3m
Population of Scotland: 5.2m
Population of island of Ireland: 6.9m
Population of Italy: 60m.

Wales, with the smallest population of the PRO 12 teams gets the most broadcasting money.

It's based on how much they raise from their own region/country. In that report by the IRFU saying the ERC should remain off FTA they commented that the IRFU get a lot more back than is generated in Ireland. I suppose it's a good job the 6 Nations and ERC competitions are not split the same way the Pro12 is.

Also, we have no idea how much Italy make from the PRO12. They're complete excluded from the UK TV deal money. So they get what they can raise in Italy (even though the FIR own the rights to all the games in Italy). Maybe they make shedloads. Maybe they make bugger all.

RTE (the Irish broadcaster) isn't as wealthy as the BBC. Its to the credit of the IRFU that they want all matches on FTA tv and haven't gone to pay tv. Even when Sky start broadcasting it, the Pro 12 is remaining on FTA.

I'd bet any money its not based on its 60m population, which is why its ludicrous that the PRL teams are insisting they get more because of their big population.

The fair way of marketing it is by number of teams supplied to the competition (i.e., the number of broadcasting hours that they provide).

Under IRB regs each union owns the rights under their jurisdiction (RFU seems to have given these to PRL) irrelevent to where they are broadcast. That seems to be the point that you dont realise.

HammerofThunor wrote:

Sin é wrote:

broadlandboy wrote:No Sin e it is based on what the rights holder can get? As shown by PRL getting more for the PRL rights than ERC can get for exclusive rights for the UK & Ireland. Funny how France & Italy can negotiate their own.

France, Italy and Republic of Ireland can negotiate their own because they are separate political identities.

Wales, England, Scotland & N Ireland have to be together becuause they are a combined political territory.

And we don't know what England can get becuase its top secret (and apparently reliant on a number of countries pitching up to play in England).

Why do you keep saying that? It's not true.

I'll believe its not true if you tell me how BBC or Sky block programmes they are broadcasting in England from being broadcast in Wales or Ireland.

Sin e which is what the PRL are effectively proposing by pooling the money & splitting it by leagues( the LNR lose out by having 14 teams rather than 12)

Sin é wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:

Sin é wrote:So, the payment of broadcasting rights is not based on population size like the English would like us to think.

Population of Wales: 3m
Population of Scotland: 5.2m
Population of island of Ireland: 6.9m
Population of Italy: 60m.

Wales, with the smallest population of the PRO 12 teams gets the most broadcasting money.

It's based on how much they raise from their own region/country. In that report by the IRFU saying the ERC should remain off FTA they commented that the IRFU get a lot more back than is generated in Ireland. I suppose it's a good job the 6 Nations and ERC competitions are not split the same way the Pro12 is.

Also, we have no idea how much Italy make from the PRO12. They're complete excluded from the UK TV deal money. So they get what they can raise in Italy (even though the FIR own the rights to all the games in Italy). Maybe they make shedloads. Maybe they make bugger all.

RTE (the Irish broadcaster) isn't as wealthy as the BBC. Its to the credit of the IRFU that they want all matches on FTA tv and haven't gone to pay tv. Even when Sky start broadcasting it, the Pro 12 is remaining on FTA.

I'd bet any money its not based on its 60m population, which is why its ludicrous that the PRL teams are insisting they get more because of their big population.

The fair way of marketing it is by number of teams supplied to the competition (i.e., the number of broadcasting hours that they provide).

They're not saying they should get more because they have a bigger population (well some are but that's not the proposition). They're saying they should get equal amount for each team. And the Pro12 unions and FFR agreed to that did they not?

broadlandboy wrote:Under IRB regs each union owns the rights under their jurisdiction (RFU seems to have given these to PRL) irrelevent to where they are broadcast. That seems to be the point that you dont realise.

I do realise that. Its getting around the technical broadcasting issues I'd like explained.

HammerofThunor wrote:

Sin é wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:

Sin é wrote:So, the payment of broadcasting rights is not based on population size like the English would like us to think.

Population of Wales: 3m
Population of Scotland: 5.2m
Population of island of Ireland: 6.9m
Population of Italy: 60m.

Wales, with the smallest population of the PRO 12 teams gets the most broadcasting money.

It's based on how much they raise from their own region/country. In that report by the IRFU saying the ERC should remain off FTA they commented that the IRFU get a lot more back than is generated in Ireland. I suppose it's a good job the 6 Nations and ERC competitions are not split the same way the Pro12 is.

Also, we have no idea how much Italy make from the PRO12. They're complete excluded from the UK TV deal money. So they get what they can raise in Italy (even though the FIR own the rights to all the games in Italy). Maybe they make shedloads. Maybe they make bugger all.

RTE (the Irish broadcaster) isn't as wealthy as the BBC. Its to the credit of the IRFU that they want all matches on FTA tv and haven't gone to pay tv. Even when Sky start broadcasting it, the Pro 12 is remaining on FTA.

I'd bet any money its not based on its 60m population, which is why its ludicrous that the PRL teams are insisting they get more because of their big population.

The fair way of marketing it is by number of teams supplied to the competition (i.e., the number of broadcasting hours that they provide).

They're not saying they should get more because they have a bigger population (well some are but that's not the proposition). They're saying they should get equal amount for each team. And the Pro12 unions and FFR agreed to that did they not?

Its the 'some are' that I want to knock on the head once and for all.

Sin é wrote:

broadlandboy wrote:Under IRB regs each union owns the rights under their jurisdiction (RFU seems to have given these to PRL) irrelevent to where they are broadcast. That seems to be the point that you dont realise.

I do realise that. Its getting around the technical broadcasting issues I'd like explained.

techinically its easy- because everyone that has sky/virgin/bt has an area code and a viewing card number.

to scramble signals is easy

That is irrelevent. If Union X sells worldwide rights to broadcaster Z it is up to Z were they are shown

broadlandboy wrote:That is irrelevent. If Union X sells worldwide rights to broadcaster Z it is up to Z were they are shown

depends on the contract drawn up

Thats why I said worldwide

right yep i see.

Knock it on the head in what way?

Are you saying more money is not raised from subscribers in England (<24%)?

Or is it that this is irrelevant (if true) because it's the teams that make the competition?

Given that the IRFU have stated that they generate less money from Ireland than they take from the 6 Nations and ERC, and the Pro12 split their TV finances based on where the money is generated, do you agree that this is a hypocritical stance?

mystiroakey wrote:

Sin é wrote:

broadlandboy wrote:Under IRB regs each union owns the rights under their jurisdiction (RFU seems to have given these to PRL) irrelevent to where they are broadcast. That seems to be the point that you dont realise.

I do realise that. Its getting around the technical broadcasting issues I'd like explained.

techinically its easy- because everyone that has sky/virgin/bt has an area code and a viewing card number.

to scramble signals is easy

So that excludes FTA broadcasters then from the bidding process?

That would also exclude Sky, because they purchase the rights of UK & Ireland generally (English speaking). I'd imagine Sky would not be too happy to buy the broadcasting rights to Welsh games that they would have to exclude their English or Irish subscribers to.

Sorry, the way the PRL are going about it would mean that it would be a complete nightmare to operate and make it practially impossible for the other UK nations & Ireland to sell their rights.

Why would they have to exclude the English and Irish subscribers? They would buy the UK rights to the Welsh games. Possibly the UK and Ireland rights to the Welsh games.

What is the issue?

HammerofThunor wrote:Knock it on the head in what way?

Are you saying more money is not raised from subscribers in England (<24%)?

Or is it that this is irrelevant (if true) because it's the teams that make the competition?

Given that the IRFU have stated that they generate less money from Ireland than they take from the 6 Nations and ERC, and the Pro12 split their TV finances based on where the money is generated, do you agree that this is a hypocritical stance?

I think what happens is the BBC buy the UK & Ireland rights to the Six Nations (which is on FTA). RTE then buy the Irish rights from them. You can watch 6 Nations games on both RTE & BBC in Ireland.

Six Nations is FTA in Ireland and so based on the population. It might be a different story if it was pay per view where they know exactly the number of subscribers that watch it there.

Sin é wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

Sin é wrote:

broadlandboy wrote:Under IRB regs each union owns the rights under their jurisdiction (RFU seems to have given these to PRL) irrelevent to where they are broadcast. That seems to be the point that you dont realise.

I do realise that. Its getting around the technical broadcasting issues I'd like explained.

techinically its easy- because everyone that has sky/virgin/bt has an area code and a viewing card number.

to scramble signals is easy

So that excludes FTA broadcasters then from the bidding process?

That would also exclude Sky, because they purchase the rights of UK & Ireland generally (English speaking). I'd imagine Sky would not be too happy to buy the broadcasting rights to Welsh games that they would have to exclude their English or Irish subscribers to.

Sorry, the way the PRL are going about it would mean that it would be a complete nightmare to operate and make it practially impossible for the other UK nations & Ireland to sell their rights.

I dont think the PRL want to go on that route, but its all possible- i just thought you were asking a general technical question on how you could block regions from TV programmes