Trott to return home with stress related illness

According to Andy Flower. Sad news and hopefully he can comeback to the side.

Presumably Bell at 3 and Bairstow 6 in the short term

His Ashes tour is over and perhaps it is for the best. If he is stressed out Ashes cricket in the current climate is certainly not for him. As for who replaces him at No.3 I would say Ian Bell or an outside shot Joe Root. Who comes into the team? Either Johnny Bairstow or maybe Gary Ballance. This would seem to secure Carberry's place in the side.

Wonder how the Aussies, especially their press, will react.

Presumably with the same tact and dignity they greeted their first ashes win in 8 tries with

I think their press will feel the need to equate this to comments made by Warner. Either they will claim it is Trott running away from criticism and Warner was correct with remarks or they will portray this as another crack forming in the England team.

This is Johnny Bairstow's massive chance. If he can slot into the side and make contributions even of 40+ he could cement a place in the side for years to come especially if Ashes are retained. If he fails to grasp his chance he could be back a few places from where he is now.

Sad. And I fear this may be the end of him as his issues are obviously far from trivial. If it is , he has had an honorable and successful career , and I salute him.
I think he has done the sensible thing , for himself and the team , by not messing about but making a decision to get off home and deal with his problems without the added pressure of top level sport in a very public arena.

Have already said in another place that I strongly disapprove of Warner's comments , as I think that sort of stuff should be kept on the field : but I don't condemn him to any greater degree in the light of this - he had no way of knowing of Trott's problems , and in any case I do not think it made any difference. His demons were likely well beyond silly insults.

Bell at three I guess. He looked good in the second knock , and got a very good ball. He should be OK. Just hope - presumably - Bairstow fires at six.

A blow for England ; but sometimes these things serve to bring out the best in a team. Hoping.

Just bad timing from Warner I'd imagine. England fell to the ground and the aussies were/are working in tandem to stamp on them to keep them from getting back on their feet and ready to fight. I'd rather Trott went home and worked it out than sit in that nasty climate to dwell upon his problems and compound the teams ones too. Would make England reluctant to leave him out or if they did would just give more ammo. That said, he could have reacted violently and nothing is funnier than people fleeing from mad men with bats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrRjB6Jn4CA

I too wish Trott well.

Although I doubt that we will ever get a clear answer, I do wonder if he should have been in Australia in the first place. I say that thinking of both the team and him.

Sad news.
I wish he recovers quickly.

I think England have made the right call, and I wish Trott a speedy recovery.

Warner's comments appear even more unfortunate now, although it does explain why Cook felt the need to jump to Trott's defence quite so vehemently - presumably the England team were aware of Trott's illness, so Cook would have been keen to show support publicly, but also no doubt would have been piqued by Warner's comments even more.

As to the Aussie press, I find them abhorrent (and unhelpful to Australia most of the time, given they are either brilliant or rubbish with no middle ground apparently) but not particularly worse than some choice British papers. I would hope they would respect what is obviously a serious condition, but you know, the Daily Mail aren't the most understanding about mental health either...

It seems the England management was aware of the issues that Trott has been dealing with. Did they take the right call in taking him to Australia in such circumstances? Flower mentioned that Trott has managed to fight off similar issues successfully in the past, perhaps the call would have been based on that history. But with ongoing technical struggles and the rather hostile environment, certainly it is the right call to hed back home.

As for the replacement, Joe Root and Ian Bell are the obvious candidates. But I am not very sure about either of them. They both have a lot of good attributes to take up the crucial position. However Bell struggled considerably at 3 when he was tried in that position. Besides, he has been a lot more consistent at 5 or 6 than at 3.
As for Root, He might have been an opener by trade, but he has proven himself to be a very smart middle order player at 6, and has the right attributes to bat 6 for England, a troubled spot for 2 years leading up to his debut.
Presuming that one of them will make the step up, who should come into the side? I really don't think Jonny Bairstow is really ready for test cricket. Ballance hasn't had a good start to his international career either. I'd say England should consider this as an opportunity to try something different, considering the 2 batting options aren't great, they should put Ben Stokes in there at 6, Prior at 7, and Steven Finn in for Chris Tremlett. And if they are feeling light on batting, if they are absolutely convinced that Tim Bresnan can operate at his best, then he too can be considered at a later stage, also depending on the performances of the others.

They had to take Trott, give him as much support as possible and hope he felt comfortable enough to play.

Seems a tough test and the Aussie media ramping up the hostility hasn't helped

Wishing Trott a speedy recovery. The First Test may well be the last we see of him in an England shirt, so lets not forget the fantastic contribution he has made to the team over the last few years.

I don't think we can say (as things stand now in any case) for sure whether they were right to pick Trott in the first place. We don't know for how long this has been going on, how Trott has come through in the past, whether he was in a worse state before this tour than before other tours, how much worse the situation got during the tour, etc.

As to replacements: presumably England will call up someone to the squad anyway. I would have thought either Vince or Taylor would be favourites, and either could bat at 3 if England feel no one else in the squad can.
I think it's most likely Bell moves up the order though: having just moved Root back down, what kind of message does it say to move him up again? Enough of the yo-yo surely...
With England's batting and Prior's form, the last thing they'll want to do IMO is pick Stokes (he can't bat 6 in tests yet anyway, so it would have to be Prior at 6 you'd think). On the other hand Bairstow hasn't really convinced, and Ballance has reportedly looked out of his depth (that selection looking more and more like an unnecessary gamble); Ballance started the tour in pole position, but Bairstow may have overtaken him.
Personally I think Bairstow's eventual position is more likely to be 3 than 6 in any case; but I wouldn't consider putting him there in these circumstances.

A tough one.

If the England management did believe there was some risk over Trott's health (albeit one that both they and the player were comfortable to take), it does again raise the question of Compton not being selected for the tour party.

Although Compton has played his Test matches as an opener, it was as a number 3 in 2012 that he made his shedload of runs in the County Championship which brought him into the England reckoning.

As Mike says , we cannot judge how wise it was to bring Trott on tour. Not an exact parallel , but if a key bowler had been very prone to a particular physical injury , and there was a lot of concern over how he would handle the hard wickets in Australia , would you not still pick him , and hope all would be well ? As long as the player is prepared to take the risk , and you have adequate cover , why not ?
As to whether the batting cover is adequate , we will have to wait and see.
They may well add a batsman to the squad anyway , though the lack of other matches outside the Tests makes that a bit tricky.

I was very sorry to hear the news about Jonathan Trott.

Poor guy, the pressure must have been relentless. I wish him all the best; he's a very fine player with some very memorable achievements. Ultimately, personal/family well-being trumps cricket - and I hope he can take a step back and address the issues with full support from those around him. It would be nice to see him on the field again at some stage but I don't know how serious the situation is in reality.

Regarding my position on sledging:

Personally, I would have prefered it if nothing had been caught on the stump-mike, or spoken into a microphone at a press conference - by any of the players involved. Maybe there should be a black-out rule? For our own sanity and minimise possible controversies being uttered live on TV. Unfortunately, both sides are guilty of it.

I believe Clarke's outburst was in reaction to something said to him by Jimmy during the summer Ashes tour. Still, it was 'cheap payback' I thought and not very sportsman-like behaviour from an Australian captain. It made me cringe when I heard it.

I didn't like the pointing his finger at Jimmy gesture either.   

Clarke's demeanour annoys me. It's not the way any captain of a national side should behave. Give me a Pat Rafter or even an Adam Scott-type personality (AS can sound boring I know but at least he is well-spoken and polite).

As for Warner - some have already touched on his particular personality trait... not too much depth there but he's a simple and brutal competitor. We've seen how he's coped with failure (not very well at all!) and now, unfortunately, we have to put up with his deliberately rude and provocative remarks after a win. He's said even more now after his initial comment and still doesn't have a clue.

Surely it would be best to 'zip it' and keep the advantage by saying nothing... or say very little at least?

I would caution Australia not to give too much ribbing to KP though. That would be a very risky thing to do. Stuart Broad has already responded to the childish provocateurs in his own special way and we certainly don't need Kevin to get into that same groove.

They should quietly compliment him instead... 'build' his ego that way!  

That's why I admired England's overall performance so much for their victory in 2010.
It was not only a splendid performance on the field - but also Cptn Cook's gracious and impeccable manners off the field. The players did the rest without too much chirp.  

Sure, there was also banter going on back then: Ponting's slide from grace was 'discussed', Swanny's water-spinkler routine captured our hearts and minds, the usual gloating and chest-beating... but it wasn't nasty or evil-sounding was it?

The challenge for Alistair Cook now will be to 'convince the media' that all is well despite this setback to the team. So we must be prepared for more media probing and hopefully Cookie can play each delivery with success.

Interestingly, it will be great to see Ian Bell at 3. That seems like a much harder tip at the top of the batting order. That move could make or break this series.

It then allows selection of Bairstow without any other player sacrifice - probably the best outcome in that department. The players who were under question (Prior?) can now get on with their task without this cloud of uncertainty.

alfie wrote:As Mike says , we cannot judge how wise it was to bring Trott on tour. Not an exact parallel , but if a key bowler had been very prone to a particular physical injury , and there was a lot of concern over how he would handle the hard wickets in Australia , would you not still pick him , and hope all would be well ?  As long as the player is prepared to take the risk , and you have adequate cover , why not ?
As to whether the batting cover is adequate , we will have to wait and see.
They may well add a batsman to the squad anyway , though the lack of other matches outside the Tests makes that a bit tricky.

Alfie - I take all your points. My worry is that we appear to have no pre-prepared plan to cope with a situation that maybe was just as likely as the key bowler in your example breaking down. As the words ''appear'' and ''maybe'' in my last sentence hopefully demonstrate, we don't know the full background and situation. It therefore means I can't be categoric but it doesn't prevent me having concerns. As per my earlier post, I would have been a lot keener to have Compton on the plane if I had known this was a possibility.

As I see it Trott has been 'managing' this problem for some time now and it has been managable as on-field results have not been impacted. The management felt the 'managing' could carry on but such was the nature of this defeat allied to Trott being targeted they probably felt that the situation was unmanageable and couldn't be carried. The team now has its back against the wall so nobody can be carried. Such is the feisty atmosphere of Ashes Series (full of stress) it is not now a position for Trott to be in especially as stress levels will now be elevated as England trail 1-0 with four tests to go.

It's in the nature of professional sportsman to want to keep coming back and he'll have been desperate to play and not want to let his teammates down. It will have been a tough decision for the management to bring him on tour, but if he said he was fine you have to go with him unless there are clear signs that he isn't. I just wish him all the best and hope he can get better soon.

As for his replacement, Bell has to bat three and Bairstow has to come in at six. As has been said, sending Root up again would give out the wrong signals to the young lad and Ballance just hasn't got enough runs to force his way in. Expect to see Taylor or Compton called up. Vince is the wildcard, and possibly the player who looks like he could come in and make the biggest impact but I don't expect to see him called up.

David Warner admits he went a bit far, wasn't to know, but it was a bit gobby at the time. I dare say he might be in for some chin music

Poor guy. My utmost thoughts are with him and I wish him all the best for the future.

As for the next test, Bell up to 3, Root up to 5, Bairstow at 6, and keep Carberry at 2.

Well we dont have to debate if he should play or not any more.

I am sure he will be back for the next series, probably needs a few months off. fingers crossed its nothing to serious.

Good luck trotty, get well soon.

I think we have no option but to bring root down the order again tbh

Whilst watching England's first innings collapse I was pretty critical of Trott, feeling that his innings and dismissal contributed as much as anything else to the collapse that followed. This certainly puts things into perspective and I really hope that a period away from the stress of international cricket helps him to fully recover and hopefully we will see him playing for England again in the future. I saw where some people have said if there was ever any doubt then he shouldn't have been touring but my view is that he had enough credit in the bank for the English Management to take his word on if he was okay to tour/play or not.

See some people on this thread wishing England had Nick Compton in the squad so he could have slotted straight in at number 3. Can't remember where I read it (could have been Pringle in the Telegraph) but it gave the impression that whilst not unpopular when part of the squad before he wasn't totally a team man, only prepared to do things his own way without compromise and not responding particularly well to the coaches (especially Gooch in the nets). If that's the case then I don't think we will see him back in the squad unless there is a major crisis of some sort or the coaching set up changes. It's not like he has the talent of KP where the management would be prepared to give him more slack. Not saying the above is fact, just what was reported when there was first talk of him loosing his England place.

Think Bell should move up to 3 in the short term. I know his stats show he is more effective down at 5/6 but it's not really fair on Root to move him again and Bell's temperament seems better than when he has battered there in the past (for more than the odd game). Hope Bairstow comes good, think we are a little lite in batsmen coming through. Management don't seem to have confidence in Taylor, Ballance doesn't seem ready, Stokes doesn't look good enough to bat 6 and Prior is certainly not in good enough form to move up. James Vince maybe?

Hope anyone in the English set-up (especially you, 8-foot tall, 125kwh Tremlett) who thinks about giving Warner Chin music as retribution has a look at him pulling and hook Shaun Tait into the roof of the WACA. Simply put you don't have the pace for it, and even if you did, he is too good for it.

Sorry to hear about Trott, does anyone know what the source is of the stress he is under?

Very sad news, obviously puts everything into perspective and the main thing is that Trott can make a full recovery from his illness. Matters more than anything. 

For the cricket side of things ill give Ben Stokes a call up at 3. Too much pressure though maybe.

we cant play stokes at 3 mate.

either bell , kp or root ,

happy with stokes at 6 though. and he adds bowling cover- I would then bring Finn in if we have his back up.

These kind of stress issues can seem challenging but under control for a considerable period.  And then something happens to ramp up the pressure and sufferer just gets overwhelmed and needs total break. Very sad but definitely best to take a substantial time out.

Best wishes to Trott for a full recovery.

Interestingly - or not of course - the only golfers I can think of whose careers have been significantly affected by publicised reports of their depression are both Australians.
Hopefully the Aussies can find it within themselves to accord the same sympathy to other nationalities' sufferers as has been afforded to their own.

kwinigolfer wrote:Interestingly - or not of course - the only golfers I can think of whose careers have been significantly affected by publicised reports of their depression are both Australians.
Hopefully the Aussies can find it within themselves to accord the same sympathy to other nationalities' sufferers as has been afforded to their own.

Serious?  We didn't know JT had issues, and we didn't pick him.  It sounds like your management did on both counts. It's convenient to make us out to be the issue, but maybe that's not quite right.

Joe Root is the likeliest to bat at 3, thinks cricinfo.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013-14/content/current/story/693465.html

Well that's positive!!

Its the best option

As an aside, I said in a separate thread that I had no problem with the ECB's decision to play Trott as long as there had been a) contingency plans in place in case things didn't go well, and b) A professional therapist was of the opinion he was fit enough to go through the rigours of the Ashes.
Given the fact that Root is about to complete the holy trinity of top order, middle order and gun batsman in a calender year, I think a) is a negative. But does anyone know if ECB had someone speak to Trott?

boomeranga,
Think you've defined a non-sequitor there.
Nothing to do with who picked Trotter, all to do with who considers his situation with some sympathy, or empathy.

kwinigolfer wrote:Interestingly - or not of course - the only golfers I can think of whose careers have been significantly affected by publicised reports of their depression are both Australians.
Hopefully the Aussies can find it within themselves to accord the same sympathy to other nationalities' sufferers as has been afforded to their own.

Sensitive, sympathetic Australians..?   Where are you going to find one of those..??   

Let's hope their radio stations can contain themselves from making phone calls to nurses at any medical facilities where Trott may be getting treatment.

kwinigolfer wrote:boomeranga,
Think you've defined a non-sequitor there.
Nothing to do with who picked Trotter, all to do with who considers his situation with some sympathy, or empathy.

There's no doubting most Australians can and do empathise with Trotty. No body likes to see anybody in his distressed situation at the start of  an Ashes series. It's not boomeranga, Icu or myself who need be asked for consideration. Of course we feel for the guy. Exactly the same as you, kwini. We are all human after all, don't forget.

However, the handful of Australian bowlers may be less sympathetic.

In a pure sporting sense - some may say it was very unsporting, Mr Jardine!   - a weak spot has been found and it will be exploited to the hilt. It is aggressive, ugly and selfish sometimes... feel sick to watch... but it does liven up proceedings very rapidly... but in a thuggish and uncouth way.

It's just our 'Australian sporting' nature in a contest... take advantage of a weakness.
The same as your approach when you smell panic in your opponent.  

This is completely separate to the JT situation (but inter-twined of course) and already moved on. This doesn't mean we will forget about Trott. We'll all be praying he makes a return to the cricketing arena. This Ashes contest will continue regardless and there's not much we can do about what might unfold over the next month and a bit.

I think there'll be some controversy before, during and after each Test. Not that I want that - but I agree, the background to this Series, thus far, has really ugly wallpaper, atrocious lighting and unsavory characters getting into scraps with the floor manager's crew!

Linebreaker wrote:

kwinigolfer wrote:boomeranga,
Think you've defined a non-sequitor there.
Nothing to do with who picked Trotter, all to do with who considers his situation with some sympathy, or empathy.

There's no doubting most Australians can and do empathise with Trotty. No body likes to see anybody in his distressed situation at the start of  an Ashes series. It's not boomeranga, Icu or myself who need be asked for consideration. Of course we feel for the guy. Just like you, kwini.
We are all human after all, don't forget.

However, the handful of Australian bowlers may be less sympathetic.
In a pure sporting sense - some may say it was very unsporting, Mr Jardine!   - a weak spot has been found and it will be exploited to the hilt.

It's just our 'Australian sporting' nature in a contest... take advantage of a weakness. It is ugly and selfish sometimes. The same as your approach when you smell panic in your opponent.  

This is completely separate to the JT situation (but inter-twined of course) and already moved on. This doesn't mean we will forget about Trott. We'll all be praying he makes a return to the cricketing arena. This Ashes contest will continue regardless and there's not much we can do about what might unfold in the next month and a bit.

I think there'll be some controversy before, during and after each Test. Not that I want that - but I agree, the background to this Series, thus far, has really ugly wallpaper, atrocious lighting and unsavory characters getting into scraps with the floor manager's crew!

<hug>

Linebreaker wrote:

kwinigolfer wrote:boomeranga,
Think you've defined a non-sequitor there.
Nothing to do with who picked Trotter, all to do with who considers his situation with some sympathy, or empathy.

There's no doubting most Australians can and do empathise with Trotty. No body likes to see anybody in his distressed situation at the start of  an Ashes series. It's not boomeranga, Icu or myself who need be asked for consideration. Of course we feel for the guy. Just like you, kwini.
We are all human after all, don't forget.

However, the handful of Australian bowlers may be less sympathetic.
In a pure sporting sense - some may say it was very unsporting, Mr Jardine!   - a weak spot has been found and it will be exploited to the hilt.

It's just our 'Australian sporting' nature in a contest... take advantage of a weakness. It is ugly and selfish sometimes. The same as your approach when you smell panic in your opponent.  

This is completely separate to the JT situation (but inter-twined of course) and already moved on. This doesn't mean we will forget about Trott. We'll all be praying he makes a return to the cricketing arena. This Ashes contest will continue regardless and there's not much we can do about what might unfold in the next month and a bit.

I think there'll be some controversy before, during and after each Test. Not that I want that - but I agree, the background to this Series, thus far, has really ugly wallpaper, atrocious lighting and unsavory characters getting into scraps with the floor manager's crew!

A reasonable assessment of the situation and I'd pretty much agree with all of it.  

Of course, us Poms are used to this sort of thing when going down under.  In recent times, we've responded to Australian pom baiting with some return banter of our own.   I remember during RWC 03 when the Aussie press tried to get after Jonny Wilkinson with the taunt  "Is that all you've got?"  Martin Johnson replied  "That's all we need".  

I would go along with a general line of banter, to which both sides contribute in equal measure.  That's fair enough.  What we wouldn't want to see is more of the nasty, vindictive ugliness that has crept into the Australian character and is all too manifest during this series.

Already, the match officials for the second test have pulled both captains to one side and spoken into their shell-likes.   Let's hope the message has sunk in.  

Play the game hard.  Play to win.  No quarter asked and none given.  But please, both sides.....don't show yourselves up for being bigger idiots than you already have in this series.

They are neanderthals some of them. Others just not too bright.

Funny, I visited my Mum the other day and we both agreed: "Leave (young and innocent) Joe alone!!!"

We both thought it was such vulgar abuse. Poor Joe looked truly shocked.

As an Aussie, I got a really sick feeling - as if the proverbial school bully was picking on a young kid on his way to the playground during his first day at school. On live TV. That was really sad to witness.

It's a problem for Trott to comeback into the Test team next year at home !!

Forever look like he bottled it!!. Which would be wrong but it would look like it!!!.........and can Flower trust it doesn't happen again ??

Trott is finished at the highest level.......me thinks..

Shame for Trott.......Mental illness is a terrible thing............

Cracking article from Martin Crowe on the 'mask' of being an international cricketer.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/693959.html

I don't get it ???

The guy has a longstanding pre-existing condition and yet..........

1. They have him fielding on the boundary in Brisbane so he can take crap all day.......

2. No one noticed he was feeling down..........

3. Stuart Broad "If I get abused at long leg we'll send trotty down there he can take it!!"

4. Scores 80 and 50 in the warm up games.......

None of the players obviously knew and the management were happy to offfer him to a baying crowd..

Don't seem right to me..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I don't get it ???

The guy has a longstanding pre-existing condition and yet..........

1. They have him fielding on the boundary in Brisbane so he can take crap all day.......

2. No one noticed he was feeling down..........

3. Stuart Broad "If I get abused at long leg we'll send trotty down there he can take it!!"

4. Scores 80 and 50 in the warm up games.......

None of the players obviously knew and the management were happy to offfer him to a baying crowd..

Don't seem right to me..

I belive he left because of esteem, embarrasement, shame arising from the criticisms...like " this is the worst inning from an England No.3" and who knows what criticism he recieved from the coaches / management in dressing room.

Unable to face and accept the ciricisms from those near him.....made walking away a better option to him.

Wow. Some lovely thoughts on mental illness here. Wouldn't wish it on anyone.