Can we finally put this Manny Pacquiao myth to bed?

Manny 1995-2008
Belts won at Flyweight, Super Bantamweight & Super Featherweight
Record: 46 wins; 3 losses; 2 draws.
Number of stoppage victories: 34 – 74%.
Highlight victories: MABx2, Morales 1-1, JMM 1-0-1

Manny 2008-2013
Belts won at Lightweight & Welterweight (also LMW if you count catchweights and LWW if you count the IBO)
Record: 9 wins; 2 losses.
Number of stoppage victories: 3 – 33%.
Highlight victories: Cotto & Hatton.

In short, at the lighter weights (130lbs and below) Manny was knocking people out for fun.

Then, not to be unexpected for someone who debuted a month after turning 16 at minimum weight, at the higher weights (135lbs and above) he’s struggled to knock anyone out. 1 legit ko in Hatton; Diaz and Cotto he got kd’s but it was the ref jumping in that got the stoppages.

This weekend he couldn’t drop, let alone stop, a guy who until 2 fights ago had never even fought above Lightweight. That said, he was still out-weighed, out-reached and out-heighted (if that’s a word).

Therefore, can we put this myth to bed about Manny having sensational freakish one-in-a-generation knockout power??

Yep, done. He is not a monster puncher at welter, but then he is not a welter. Put him in at 135 and it would be a diff matter.

He has got freakish power.........He was 21 when he won the Fly title and he has been knocking guys much bigger out ever since.......

Maybe If the OP realised that guys Like Gomez and others in history moved up in small increments and were less deadly........

That 21 year old Flyweights who are fully grown men don't usually bang out lightweight types......

Maybe his power isn't as good at 140/147 but he has exceptional power.......

The op isn't qualified to comment on this subject.........His knowledge is very limited.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The op isn't qualified to comment on this subject.........His knowledge is very limited.

naughty naughty boy.

Just find it perverse to suggest a guy who wins a flyweight title at 21........Can hurt jr welterweights and stop them with one punch knockouts doesn't have freakish power.....

Mcguigan said he found a big difference between hitting a 126 pounder and a 130 pounder.....

For some reason I don't see sot Chitalada hurting Meldrick taylor.....

We toast achievements by Henry armstrong and the like because it's so rare throughout history guys can rise so much between the weights and succeed mainly because of power issues..

and this guy hasn't got freakish power ?..........Paccy hurts opponents at 140/147......Freakish in itself.......

You added in the plural for effect?

He's stopped 1 juniorwelterweight. This is why I dispassionately and objectively set out the cold hard facts. Not over-excitable hyperbole like some () are guilty of.

Same age same weight as Floyd (whether now or 20 yrs ago), same ko ratio above SFW. Yet Floyd gets a free pass whereas Pac's achievements need to be undermined?

Everyone else sees it but you, because you have a Manny shaped chip on your shoulder.

Have an idea of the problems weight jumpers have had throughout history before writing articles this...

Or keep wumming..........I'm not bothered.. It's like debating with Davide..

1) Is it that hard to accept that maybe Floyd isn't the ONLY 'once in a generation' fighter of the last 20-30 years?

2) History is only important to you because you're trying to use it to make a point that isn't there. Everyone else can see that, in line with fighters from yesteryear, Manny lost his power as he moved up - and is no more devastating than his nearest peer who just so happens to have weighed the same at the same age and have the same ko stats at the higher weights.

History is irrelevant because the stats show his power HASN'T carried.

Do these stats include all his fights? It looks as though they do. In that case the results are likely to be skewed by the fact that fighters tend heavily towards getting more KOs earlier in there career when the opposition is not as tough. All Pacquiao's fights at the higher weights are championship level ones. You'd be better only to compare championship level fights at the lighter weight categories.

Saying that, I don't consider Manny a freakish puncher. He's a very solid and very fast puncher. I don't think there's anything particularly suspicious about his punching power through the weights.

He had 4 KO's in his first 13 fights Boxthis, he quickly grew out of flyweight but still boiled himself down, even at his more natural super bantamweight he was still huge and a huge featherweight.

He appeared to have unusual power during the period he worked with Alex Ariza.

hazharrison wrote:He appeared to have unusual power during the period he worked with Alex Ariza.

Which period was this and who did he ko?

Boxtthis wrote:Do these stats include all his fights? It looks as though they do. In that case the results are likely to be skewed by the fact that fighters tend heavily towards getting more KOs earlier in there career when the opposition is not as tough. All Pacquiao's fights at the higher weights are championship level ones. You'd be better only to compare championship level fights at the lighter weight categories.

Is a fair point, Boxthis.

So looking at just his career from his first world title onwards (WBC flyweight title, Dec-98, weeks before turning 20):

98-08 (130lbs and below)
27 fights, 23 wins, 2 losses, 2 draws.
20/23 stoppages = 87%.

Therefore that doesn't help the anti-Manny case at all actually.  Even just taking his championship reign(s) onwards into account (therefore excluding when he may not have been fully grown) he still had a (now, very) high ko ratio when fighting at smaller weights in comparison to a low ko ratio when facing bigger guys at 135lbs and above.

Which is more proof that he doesn't have freakish power that's carried up the weights.  He's just performed as expected - good taking out little guys, struggles with the big'uns.

From Diaz to Marquez 4 (but had a reduced role after Mosley -- kept complaining that Pacquiao wasn't following his programme).

Pancaked Diaz
Obliterated Oscar -- retired him.
Decapitated Ricky -- retired him.
Stopped Cotto (flooring him badly in the process)
All but retired Clottey (who's probably still holding his sides)
Blinded Margarito -- retired him.
Knocked down Mosley (famously iron chinned) and made him survive rather than fight.

All far bigger men -- all tamed by freaky power for a guy who came from nothingweight.

Admitted easing up on the last three, also.

All but retired Clottey (who's probably still holding his sides)
 

hazharrison wrote:From Diaz to Marquez 4 (but had a reduced role after Mosley -- kept complaining that Pacquiao wasn't following his programme).

Pancaked Diaz
Obliterated Oscar -- retired him.
Decapitated Ricky -- retired him.
Stopped Cotto (flooring him badly in the process)
All but retired Clottey (who's probably still holding his sides)
Blinded Margarito -- retired him.
Knocked down Mosley (famously iron chinned) and made him survive rather than fight.

All far bigger men -- all tamed by freaky power for a guy who came from nothingweight.

So his 1 ko above 130lbs and 2 ref stoppages, 1 at 135lbs only. That's still only 3/7 = 43%.

He throws a lot of fast hard punches, not denying that, but that list still doesn't suggest he had the same ko power fighting welterweights as he did Fly and Super-bantams.

In comparison, Floyd's ko ratio above 135lbs is 14 fights, 14 wins, 5 stoppages = 36%, so a fraction above Manny's (33%) but a little below Manny's 'Ariza period' (43%).

Stats are one thing but it's the manner of his wins. He was an absolute menace against that lot -- it shouldn't be possible to throw that many punches with that much power.

He's a medical marvel!!

Ariza's medicine must have been ineffective on Saturday night......

Although there are insinuations about Manny here, I don't think it would be outlandish to suggest there's a good possibility that most boxers are on some form of PED's. The testing programs just aren't there and there is a lot of money to be made.

seanmichaels wrote:Ariza's medicine must have been ineffective on Saturday night......

They haven't worked together for a couple of years....

seanmichaels wrote:Ariza's medicine must have been ineffective on Saturday night......

Although there are insinuations about Manny here, I don't think it would be outlandish to suggest there's a good possibility that most boxers are on some form of PED's. The testing programs just aren't there and there is a lot of money to be made.

VADA tested werent they. Can't mess about with VADA.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

seanmichaels wrote:Ariza's medicine must have been ineffective on Saturday night......

They haven't worked together for a couple of years....

I know. Ariza was working for Rios.......

seanmichaels wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

seanmichaels wrote:Ariza's medicine must have been ineffective on Saturday night......

They haven't worked together for a couple of years....

I know. Ariza was working for Rios.......

Oh right, sorry, didn't realise that was what you were getting at.