Heyneke Meyer's summary of his players
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Heyneke Meyer's summary of his players
Supersport wrote:Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer ended the tour of Wales, Scotland and France happy with the depth he has in most positions building up to the World Cup in England in 2015, but he says he is still worried about what is available at No 5 lock.
Flip van der Merwe has adjusted to the role brilliantly in the past few months, and many critics believed that Meyer erred in not selecting Sharks youngster Pieter-Steph du Toit as a starter in one of the tests on this tour.
However, Meyer’s reluctance to throw the youngster in at the deep end may have been vindicated when he lost some crucial lineouts against the throw in the closing stages of the 19-10 win over France at Stade de France at the weekend.
Not that Du Toit’s ability to do the job is what Meyer is concerned about and preventing him from selecting the recent age-group star into the starting team now.
“The No 5 lock runs the lineout and I don’t think people who are not involved realise what that entails and what a huge challenge it would be for a youngster like Pieter-Steph,” said Meyer during the tour wash-up with South African journalists in Paris on Sunday.
“I will give you an example that I hope you can carry across to your readers in a positive way. In the build-up to one of the games on this tour, Bakkies (Botha) and Pieter-Steph were training together in the same lineout formation, and because he was the middle of the lineout jumpers, Pieter-Steph was leading the lineout.
“On one occasion Bakkies wasn’t the right spacing, and I saw Pieter-Steph go up to him and ask him very politely and respectfully if he would move. Because he is so much younger and less experienced than Bakkies, Pieter-Steph has a natural respect and even awe of someone like Bakkies. But what we need from the guy running the lineout is someone who will be forceful and take charge.”
Meyer is confident that Du Toit will be up to speed this time next year though.
“I have always said I have a plan with Pieter-Steph and you will see it come through next year. He will be bled into the system. By this time next year hopefully he will have several tests under his belt and he will be ready for the role I envisage for him.
"This time last year Eben Etzebeth had hardly played any tests, and look at him now. He is regarded as experienced and is up for the IRB Player of the Year award.”
Meyer says he rates Du Toit but believes that the Boks will need back-up in the most important position in the lineout.
Juandre Kruger is out of favour while Andries Bekker, though probably available again in the World Cup year, is ruled out of playing international rugby for the time being by Japanese club commitments.
MATFIELD RETURN?
Meyer’s headache may be eased slightly if the Bulls play Van der Merwe at No 5 in next year’s Super Rugby, but there will be those who will see his words as an indication that he still might be looking for a way to pave the way for a Victor Matfield return.
Whatever the reality, he doesn’t have many problems in most other areas, and he has professed himself particularly happy with the way a potential weakness at tighthead has resolved itself on this tour.
“I was worried when Jannie du Plessis wasn’t available to tour because I wasn’t sure we had the back-up. But Frans Malherbe was thrown in at the deep end and as a youngster, I was really pleased with the way he played. I really think he is a big player for the future.
"And Coenie Oosthuizen was given his chance against France, and he took it with both hands. I was happy with his performance,” said Meyer.
“So suddenly we have three good players at tighthead. I am satisfied now that we are well covered there,” he added.
Patrick Lambie played well against Scotland when he got his chance at flyhalf against Scotland, and with Johan Goosen due to play again next year, the Boks look well covered in the all-important pivot position too, while Lambie looks set to continue to also cover fullback, where Willie le Roux has now established himself as the No 1.
“I don’t think people realise how much we have had to work with Pat. He was lining up way too deep when he first came to us, and we have had to get him to play closer to the gainline. He is starting to do that now and I have been really happy with his progress.
"Johan (Goosen) wasn’t able to play on this tour but I want to have him ready for the incoming tours next year and what he has picked up on this trip will hold him in good stead for that.
“As for Willie, I have already said that I have been astounded at how well he has responded to the coaching he has been given. When he first came to us he had no kicking game. But he worked on it and has now become a great tactical kicker and a good tactical fullback. I have a lot of faith in him now.
“We played him on the right wing in the home leg of the Rugby Championship, but fullback is his position. He struggles with his defensive game on the wing and missed three key tackles that may have cost us the game against the All Blacks. I am happier with him at fullback.”
Meyer never made mention of it, but that does leave a potential problem at wing, where JP Pietersen’s strong showing since his rusty return in Cardiff has seen him re-establish himself as the only real option at No 14, with Bryan Habana also having no challengers at left wing.
Gio Aplon travelled on this tour ostensibly as a wing back-up more than a fullback reserve, but was never used because there were no injuries, and with the exception of perhaps Lwazi Mvovo, there aren’t many strong candidates back home.
Fourie du Preez’s return to the fold has partially solved the scrumhalf problem, but Meyer is also concerned about that position.
“I need a strong locally based scrumhalf to come through to add to the depth there but so far that isn’t really happening. I will be monitoring the progress of the youngsters closely during the coming Super Rugby season,” said the coach.
Biltong- Moderator
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Re: Heyneke Meyer's summary of his players
Such a methodical approach, really is a shame he didn't get longer at Tigers. Has a real long term view and has the Boks playing some good stuff.
formerly known as Sam- Posts : 21333
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Re: Heyneke Meyer's summary of his players
I would like to ask him why he played subbed Alberts for du Toit when he had Kolisi on the bench. Might as well have kept Siya at home if you think a Lock with Zero athleticism is a loose option
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Re: Heyneke Meyer's summary of his players
Du Toit? Zero athleticism? Emm..kingraf wrote:I would like to ask him why he played subbed Alberts for du Toit when he had Kolisi on the bench. Might as well have kept Siya at home if you think a Lock with Zero athleticism is a loose option
Rory_Gallagher- Posts : 11324
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Re: Heyneke Meyer's summary of his players
exaggeration? probably, but if you think PS is even on the same plane athletically as Kolisi you haven't watched Super rugby last two years.
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Re: Heyneke Meyer's summary of his players
You didn't say that at all though, you claimed Steph Du Toit has zero athleticism, which is a very strange statement, based on what I have seen.
Rory_Gallagher- Posts : 11324
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Re: Heyneke Meyer's summary of his players
It was am exaggeration to prove a point. The guy plays international rugby, of course he is athletic!
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Re: Heyneke Meyer's summary of his players
With that said, nothing in his play during super rugby made think he could make the grade as a Loosie. Nothing he did in his little time on the field made me think otherwise. If Meyer is thinking this is a potential way forward, I'm back on the anti-Meyer bus.
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Re: Heyneke Meyer's summary of his players
Kingraf, Meyer wanted to give Pieter Steph some exposure, something Kolisi got much more of this season.
I don't think you are seeing this in the right light. It was the end of the season, and although only a few minutes, Pieter Steph would have gained more than Kolisi.
I don't think you are seeing this in the right light. It was the end of the season, and although only a few minutes, Pieter Steph would have gained more than Kolisi.
Biltong- Moderator
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Re: Heyneke Meyer's summary of his players
hey you guys have no problem at lock as far as I see. Flip Van Der Mewe has been you bets players consistently through the Autumn. I some South Africans don't think much of him but I really think he has grown into international level.
You have another great talent in Du Toit and how much longer is Bekker in Japan or hwy isn't he being released like Fourie?
You have another great talent in Du Toit and how much longer is Bekker in Japan or hwy isn't he being released like Fourie?
Jhamer25- Posts : 1219
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Re: Heyneke Meyer's summary of his players
Bekker's contract that he signed said he isn't available for test rugby, but Meyer doesn't rate him either, his core skills is not what Meyer wants from his no5 lock.
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Re: Heyneke Meyer's summary of his players
Biltong - I can't believe that. Meyer has said many times he doesn't believe in handing out Bok caps. To say he wanted is give PS some exposure is imo a contradiction of his philosophy. Kolisi made his debut this year, less than 80 minutes in NH conditions, can't see how he doesn't benefit from a run.
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Re: Heyneke Meyer's summary of his players
When Meyer says he doesn't hand out caps, he means to a plethora of wannabees, du Toit is firmly in the plans for RWC, building experience is not handing out caps. His injury precluded him from gaining enough experience during the year.
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Re: Heyneke Meyer's summary of his players
He clearly said he wants his best XV on at all times. Don't think It's a stretch for me to then assume he sees PS as better Loose than Siya. I don't have an issue with PS being in the team, he is a future superstar, I just don't think he's done enough at Flank to warrant getting international minutes there
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Re: Heyneke Meyer's summary of his players
Is Matfield a genuine option or consideration? How old is he now?
Geordie- Posts : 28896
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Re: Heyneke Meyer's summary of his players
Kingraf, he was a sub mate, he didn't get a full game.
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Re: Heyneke Meyer's summary of his players
It's the "intent" that worries me, seems like Meyer is slowly going back into a "might is right" sort of thinking, the kind where we run at faces and not spaces
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Re: Heyneke Meyer's summary of his players
I think PSdT might be our next Danie R. Kolisi has had his chances this year.
HM was probably looking at playing tight also at the stage of the match PSdT came on. He might be the perfect loose for heavy NH winter rugby and I suppose a more like for like replacement with Alberts at least physically.
I am a Kolisi fan but can see HM's logic
HM was probably looking at playing tight also at the stage of the match PSdT came on. He might be the perfect loose for heavy NH winter rugby and I suppose a more like for like replacement with Alberts at least physically.
I am a Kolisi fan but can see HM's logic
MMaaxx- Posts : 276
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Re: Heyneke Meyer's summary of his players
oh Lord, another Alberts.... let's just announce we have given up all hope of matching the ABs in a track meet
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Re: Heyneke Meyer's summary of his players
All part of the ongiong plan to have the entire 2007 RWC-winning team in situ for 2015GeordieFalcon wrote:Is Matfield a genuine option or consideration? How old is he now?
Notch- Moderator
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Re: Heyneke Meyer's summary of his players
Out of interest who covers for jdv at 12? Fourie? Lambie? Others?
Great article - he's speaks with great openess and clarity of vision, and above all a desire to up young players good opportunities to develop in a well managed environment.
Great article - he's speaks with great openess and clarity of vision, and above all a desire to up young players good opportunities to develop in a well managed environment.
littlejohn- Posts : 279
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Re: Heyneke Meyer's summary of his players
kingraf:
Alberts is probably our player of the NI tour. He has been great particularly on defence. His presence in the scrum and rolling maul cannot be undervalued. The issue is how the big guys are used but to be fair it seems as though PSdT does have slick handling and an offloading game. It matters if they are coming at pace, at an angle and at pace all while looking for an offload. Whether they are bigger guys like Alberts or smaller like Kolisi is largely irrelevant. A Danie equivalent off the bench can only benefit the team. Furthermore, there needs to be a like for like replacement for Alberts should he get injured. Jake White always said that it's not about selecting the best players but rather the best cogs in a working machine to get a desired result. HM obviously values bulk and size to reach his desired result and an Alberts type player is important. It cannot be assumed that a larger player lacks ball skills or creativity and that selecting one means typical 'Bulls' bash and smash, three points rugby.
I can surely see HM's logic and think he deserves the right to see out his plan which seems to be methodical.
There has been a steady positive improvement and clearly signs are positive. The AB results are what they are but the first game was ruined by BduP's red and the second was played with an eye on four tries more than purely winning. I'm not saying we would've won either as it is clearly a great AB team but we need to be realistic. Hell, The Boks should've won last year in Dunedin if MS had nailed his kicks.
All I'm saying is give it a fair chance without jumping to conclusions or this will start revealing that terrible Keo website with its provincial arguments and stereotyping.
Littlejohn: F Steyn or Taute could cover for JDV. Jordan is also a seriously good young talent who hopefully will come through this season.
Alberts is probably our player of the NI tour. He has been great particularly on defence. His presence in the scrum and rolling maul cannot be undervalued. The issue is how the big guys are used but to be fair it seems as though PSdT does have slick handling and an offloading game. It matters if they are coming at pace, at an angle and at pace all while looking for an offload. Whether they are bigger guys like Alberts or smaller like Kolisi is largely irrelevant. A Danie equivalent off the bench can only benefit the team. Furthermore, there needs to be a like for like replacement for Alberts should he get injured. Jake White always said that it's not about selecting the best players but rather the best cogs in a working machine to get a desired result. HM obviously values bulk and size to reach his desired result and an Alberts type player is important. It cannot be assumed that a larger player lacks ball skills or creativity and that selecting one means typical 'Bulls' bash and smash, three points rugby.
I can surely see HM's logic and think he deserves the right to see out his plan which seems to be methodical.
There has been a steady positive improvement and clearly signs are positive. The AB results are what they are but the first game was ruined by BduP's red and the second was played with an eye on four tries more than purely winning. I'm not saying we would've won either as it is clearly a great AB team but we need to be realistic. Hell, The Boks should've won last year in Dunedin if MS had nailed his kicks.
All I'm saying is give it a fair chance without jumping to conclusions or this will start revealing that terrible Keo website with its provincial arguments and stereotyping.
Littlejohn: F Steyn or Taute could cover for JDV. Jordan is also a seriously good young talent who hopefully will come through this season.
MMaaxx- Posts : 276
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Re: Heyneke Meyer's summary of his players
Jan Serfontein was the back up to J de Villiers this season.
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Re: Heyneke Meyer's summary of his players
Of course, completely forgot about Jan.
Looking forward to watching him in the SXV in 2014. Should be a regular starter.
Going to be interesting to see how a hopefully fit and firing F Steyn fits into the mix. He could be the ace in the hole for the Bok back line.
Jake should also help get the Sharks' players sharper and fitter.
Looking forward to watching him in the SXV in 2014. Should be a regular starter.
Going to be interesting to see how a hopefully fit and firing F Steyn fits into the mix. He could be the ace in the hole for the Bok back line.
Jake should also help get the Sharks' players sharper and fitter.
MMaaxx- Posts : 276
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Re: Heyneke Meyer's summary of his players
If you consider everything we have seen this year, the players that got national contracts this season then things are definitely looking up.
Props.
We currently have Beast who is still number one loosehead, Jannie is number two, but with Coenie, Frans and Lourens, we might now see Coenie going back to Loose head. Then you still have Kitshoff at home who will surely get an opportunity.
Hookers
Bismarck and Adriaan in my view are two of the best hookers in world rugby.
So overall looking at the performance of our scrum over the year, we were never really on the backfoot, had a good few tight heads and were up to the task against all comers.
Locks
Eben Etzebeth is the incumbent number 4, FLip v d Merwe the 5. Pieter Steph du Toit will gain experience and be there. Other than that we are a tad thin, but it doesn't concern me too much.
Backrow
Here it isn't about lacking depth, it is about who combines best for the best balance.
Currently in my view you will have to go far to find a better combination in SA than Louw, ALberts and Vermeulen. But then you still have Kolisi, Arno Botha, Pierre Spies, Schalk Burger who says he is coming back and then guys like, Philip v d Walt, Lappies Labuschagne etc.
Overall I think we have one of the better packs in world rugby, if not close to being the best.
Halfback.
Currently the biggest issue for me. No back up to Fourie du Preez and that is purely down to Meyer's conservative approach in not wanting to risk youngsters.
Flyhalf
Solid dependable Steyn, nothing flashy but gets the job done. Goosen the talisman is uninjured, and Lambie the underrated. No problems there.
Centre
Jean de Villiers, Jan Serfontein and Frans Steyn.
JJ who I believe should be a wing, Jaque and JP who I believe should be at 13. Then you have Jaco Taute, I would like to see Hollenbach and De Allende get opportunities and don't forget Paul Jordaan who can also play wing.
Wings
Problem area, Habana and JP, but what about JJ and Hougaard??
Full back will be Willie.
So we need a few spots to have more depth, but overall we are getting there.
The backs can almost have a utilitarian look to it in that many can cover more than one position if necessary.
Lambie 10, 12, 15
JJ 13, 14
JP 13, 14
Frans 10, 12, 15
Willie 14, 15
Taute 13, 15
Paul 13, 14
Hougaard 9, 11
And so on.
Props.
We currently have Beast who is still number one loosehead, Jannie is number two, but with Coenie, Frans and Lourens, we might now see Coenie going back to Loose head. Then you still have Kitshoff at home who will surely get an opportunity.
Hookers
Bismarck and Adriaan in my view are two of the best hookers in world rugby.
So overall looking at the performance of our scrum over the year, we were never really on the backfoot, had a good few tight heads and were up to the task against all comers.
Locks
Eben Etzebeth is the incumbent number 4, FLip v d Merwe the 5. Pieter Steph du Toit will gain experience and be there. Other than that we are a tad thin, but it doesn't concern me too much.
Backrow
Here it isn't about lacking depth, it is about who combines best for the best balance.
Currently in my view you will have to go far to find a better combination in SA than Louw, ALberts and Vermeulen. But then you still have Kolisi, Arno Botha, Pierre Spies, Schalk Burger who says he is coming back and then guys like, Philip v d Walt, Lappies Labuschagne etc.
Overall I think we have one of the better packs in world rugby, if not close to being the best.
Halfback.
Currently the biggest issue for me. No back up to Fourie du Preez and that is purely down to Meyer's conservative approach in not wanting to risk youngsters.
Flyhalf
Solid dependable Steyn, nothing flashy but gets the job done. Goosen the talisman is uninjured, and Lambie the underrated. No problems there.
Centre
Jean de Villiers, Jan Serfontein and Frans Steyn.
JJ who I believe should be a wing, Jaque and JP who I believe should be at 13. Then you have Jaco Taute, I would like to see Hollenbach and De Allende get opportunities and don't forget Paul Jordaan who can also play wing.
Wings
Problem area, Habana and JP, but what about JJ and Hougaard??
Full back will be Willie.
So we need a few spots to have more depth, but overall we are getting there.
The backs can almost have a utilitarian look to it in that many can cover more than one position if necessary.
Lambie 10, 12, 15
JJ 13, 14
JP 13, 14
Frans 10, 12, 15
Willie 14, 15
Taute 13, 15
Paul 13, 14
Hougaard 9, 11
And so on.
Biltong- Moderator
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Re: Heyneke Meyer's summary of his players
Flip has done very well. SA have no variation in their lineout, they have no front jumper and Flip does nearly all the moves. Yet the only time SA have looked vunerable in the lineout was vs. NZ in Jozi... and this was went he was banned.
For me he has cemented his place and is a very good no.5 all of a sudden.... yet his work rate is more like a no.4.... thats a rare commodity and it looks like Lawes is joining him in that front too.
For me he has cemented his place and is a very good no.5 all of a sudden.... yet his work rate is more like a no.4.... thats a rare commodity and it looks like Lawes is joining him in that front too.
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