Whose fault is Samoa Joe’s career nosedive?

Whose fault is Samoa Joe’s career nosedive?

Samoa Joe is for me one of the best wrestlers of his generation. For me he’s got a fantastic fanbase that worship him (Joe’s gonna kill ya), he puts on some of the most amazing matches going (three 5 stars matches in the Wrestler Observer Awards), he went on an incredible and believable streak, he for me is the guy who makes the best tweener in the industry post Austin.
Yet currently he cannot even get on a PPV card featuring Karen Angle wrestling and the likes of Shannon Moore, Matt Hardy and Chris Harris getting slots. He turns face and heel to complete indifference and even a feud with another great wrestler in The Pope failed to ignite the fans.

Where has it gone wrong for the Samoan Submission Machine and how can it improve?

personally id send him back to ROH for a couple months get himself back up to his best then bring him back and destroy everyone in his path leading to aj vs joe for the world title.

im a big fan of joe so hopefully it won't be long before he's back up with the big guns.

Quite simply since his leathered up kidnapping angle, he hasnt recovered. Its just bad booking.

The thing about him, and even though he hasnt been booked in a top line feud or been on any impressive win run, you could put him in with Sting tomorrow and utterly believe that he would win clean. What I mean is the fans wouldnt be shocked if he did - they could flick the switch on him at any time and he would be back to old Joe.

Terrible waste of talent. But that sums up TNA altogether these days.

I think that he may need a change of scenery to get out of his rut.

Potentially the WWE could take him and give him a push, maybe have him lead a Samoan faction with the Uso's.

Of course the WWE may not be his natural habitat.

maybe wwe could turn joe into what umaga should of become.

totally agree with you Hobo.

Joe was a killing machine and wouldnt take much to turn him back again.

Maybe have him go on another streak, destroying everyone leading up to a title match at end of the year at Final Resolution or Genesis?

Could they reintroduce the top 10 contenders (what happened to that!) and have him run through it like Angle was doing?

i think when they did the whole imortal angle they gave up on the rankings system.

Also fans kept on voting for Desmond Wolfe to be number 1 contender

Joe's nosedive can be traced back to his abysmal 'Nation of Paint A Dick on My Face' gimmick, which did him a lot of harm. As Hobo says though TNA could easily book him in a top line feud and it would be believable.

However, I don't think he'll ever hit the heights he could (or should) have in TNA, he may win the World title but it'll never be seen as a monumental victory. His first run with the title was nothing to write home about, some of that was Joe's own doing because he never carried himself like a star except for the matches in which he won and lost the belt.

It's ironic really because in his initial run with TNA he looked like more of a star than practically anybody else on the roster, he exuded an aura that screamed main eventer.

If I was going to try and rebuild Joe I'd go along the same lines as nando, get him off TV for a few months and then when he comes back have him plough through everybody to win the World title.

I will happily admit I’m a huge mark for Joe, if you asked me to pick 5 guys in the wrestling business to build a federation around, he’d be in there without a shadow of doubt.
I think it’s shocking that a couple of months prior to Hogan taking over we were getting main event PPV matches of Joe v AJ v Daniels that were absolute belters, that had the fans exactly where TNA wanted them, everything was good in the business.
Yet within a few weeks of Hogan taking over he was getting pinned in mid card matches to Orlando Jordan.

Hobo wrote:Quite simply since his leathered up kidnapping angle, he hasnt recovered. Its just bad booking.

What happened with that? Who kidknapped him I remember the promos during impact. Than he appeared from nowhere and ended up feuding with Jarrett. He is easily a better shout for main events than RVD and Sting.

I think the blame lies squarely with TNA. Joe could and should have been pushed as the franchise player in the whole company; he has such a unique look, style and charisma that I think anyone flipping the channels would see him and be drawn in. Given that he can cut a very good promo when he's not shouting, and he's capable of great matches, I think he'd have kept more viewers than he drove away.

The reason he didn't get this treatment? He'd never been in WWE or WCW. TNA and Spike thought his face wasn't recognisable enough.

Joe hasn't been inspired for most of the Hogan regime but why should he be? He'll never get the push he deserves, so why bother trying? I think Joe could have been someone who changed the industry; TNA was and is in a great position to challenge WWE if they only had that one star to grab the attention of casual viewers, that one wrestler to build the company around, who casual fans see and think "I want to watch this guy". Joe is in my opinion far and away the best man for the job.

As things stand, the people running TNA (and WWE for that matter) don't "get" Joe. As much as the fans love him, it's up to the people in charge who is treated like a star and who isn't. If he hasn't lost his faith in the industry entirely, I would love to see him back in ROH where he can once again be treated like the major player he can be.

I always felt that the Pope/Joe feud should have been for the tv title. It would have given more meaning to the feud and it would put the tv title where I feel it should be, fought between 2 decent wrestlers just below the main event scene. In TNA theres so many people who could feud over the tv title when out of the main event picture, it could become an important title

I know this isn't directly related to the thread but it would have helped joe I think and its something thats I've thought for months

There is no doubt the fans will pay to watch Joe, something TNA cant say about a lot of their main event players, TNA are only selling around 7-10 thousand PPV's these days yet 3 years ago when he was the World Champion TNA got 50,000+ buys because the fans wanted to see him in main events, not token main events like AJ/Danials/Joe II at the end of 09 but legit main events, his problem started when the booked him to join the Mafia and take a back seat to Sting and Angle, TNA just have no clue where to go with him

Great article Hero, completely agree with everything that has been said.
Joe is a brilliant asset to TNA that needs to be treated better.
Also agree with what's been said about the TV title, Gunner holding it is a complete and utter joke, the guy was a supposed security card jobber that wasn't good enough for the roster only a few months ago.
Put the title on Joe and bring some much need credibility back to Joe and the title!