Samoa Joe

Samoa Joe is one of my favourite wrestlers of the past 15 years without question, for me he's a guy that when he's in the zone has hardly any equal but he's also one of the most underutilised guys of the past few years.
So I have the following statements/questions (taken from http://wallsofjerichoholic.blogspot.com/2012/03/friday-five-samoa-joe.html) for you to discuss:

1. If Joe had gone to WWE with CM Punk, he'd have outgrown the Umaga gimmick earmarked for him and become a part of the main event with Punk by now.

2. What's your favorite Joe match?

3. Samoa Joe is the most influential independent wrestler of the last 12 years.

4. What match do you want to see Joe in most among opponents he hasn't faced yet?

As much as TNA has miused/wasted Joe, I don't have any belief that the WWE would have done any better with him and I think he'd be in a similar position as the one he is in now, just with another company.

I like Joe and when I first started watching TNA he is one of the guys that constantly stood out. Through a combination of bad booking, and what I see as a lack of effort at times, he has floundered in the midcard.

People talk about WWE's inability to 'make a star', with Punk getting to the top through his own actions rather than a spell of good booking. I don't think that would have changed for Joe.

I'm saying no as CM Punk is amazing on the mic. Joe isn't bad but he is nowhere near the same league.

Fav Joe match against AJ Styles at Sacrifice 2005. Love the fued that they had then for me they were both at their peak then.

Most influential wrestler in the last 12 years? No I'd say Christopher Daniels I just think more people have taken elements of what Daniels has done and tried to immitate him in small ways.

Love to see Joe take on Angle again but you say who he hasn't faced....How about Jericho. I know similar to the current CM Punk feud.

1. If Joe had gone to WWE with CM Punk, he'd have outgrown the Umaga gimmick earmarked for him and become a part of the main event with Punk by now.

I doubt it due to the way the WWE likes their superstars all 6ft6 freaks of nature

2. What's your favorite Joe match?

Joe VS Punk II

3. Samoa Joe is the most influential independent wrestler of the last 12 years.

Id say so mainly has made people realize that their are people outside of TNA/WWE that are top class wrestlers whatever shape or size they are.

4. What match do you want to see Joe in most among opponents he hasn't faced yet?

Joe vs Wade Barrett

Samoa Joe vs Brock Lesnar would be all kinds of epic.

Back to planet earth, Samoa Joe vs Austin Aries fued would be decent.

Hard for me to answer some of those questions having not seen a lot of Samoa Joe and TNA in general but... I suspect he would have been built up and fed to John Cena just like Jamal was as Umaga and he'd probably be somewhere in the mid-card by now.

1. If Joe had gone to WWE with CM Punk, he'd have outgrown the Umaga gimmick earmarked for him and become a part of the main event with Punk by now.

I'd say no, obviously if motivated and used correctly Joe is one of, if not the, best in the world. But thats a big if, Joe isn't the conventional wrestler, which is obviously part of his appeal, but WWE, particuarly these days, isn't known for making the most of unique talents. In regards to Joe's motivation, he strikes me as a guy who feeds on confidence and having his ego massaged, his best work obviously came when he was the indy megastar/being pushed hard in TNA, now that he is in a low period, which has been on forever to be fair, he seems to have lost a certain spark that made him special in the first place. Both Punk and Bryan have had to both endure mistrust and large amounts of booking apathy, in their WWE careers thus far and have both endured, by proving themselves to be undeniable talents anywhere on the card. Given the evidence on how Joe has looked when he has been mismanaged by TNA and reports of his outspoken attitude backstage, I don't see him going far in the WWE when the going got tough.

2. What's your favorite Joe match?

Either Joe vs Angle 1 at Genesis 2005, Joe vs Necro Butcher from IWA mid-south, or Joe vs Kobashi from ROH

3. Samoa Joe is the most influential independent wrestler of the last 12 years.

Not sure about that, Punk certainally has an argument for that, not only do his acheivments much outstrip anything Joe has acheived since they moved from ROH, but he has also flown the flag as being outspokenly drug, and most significantly, steroid free, not that I am saying Joe isn't but, as you said with him being earmarked for the role as Umaga, he does have a certain amount of physical presance that Punk lacks.

4. What match do you want to see Joe in most among opponents he hasn't faced yet?.

Although it may have been done on a minor scale, I would like to see Joe vs Davey Richards, since Richards rise to promenance.

Not that I know much about WWE, but I'm guessing he wouldn't have fared any better, in terms of becoming "mainstream" or a superstar.

TNA have underused / wasted a lot of their talent. Having watched for the last couple of years and seen Joe in a good few fights (both singles and tag team matches) I agree is a great wrestler. Like Angle he is great "on the mat" and for a guy with his build, he's pretty athletic too. His only real weakness is his mic work. His speeches tend to be short and to the point and he tends to make his point with actions rather than words. For all that I still like him as a character, as well as a fighter.

However, just like Hollwood has their favourite actors, the wrestling business seems to have its favoured sons and daughters. I'd say that Joe has found his niche as an "outsider" and he isn't doing too badly right now. He currently holds the Tag Team title with Magnus and before that was usually on the fringes of the Heavyweight title scene.

All I would say is that TNA need to make sure he continues to get regular appearances. He may not be as big a character as some of the others, but he's worth keeping for his ring work alone.


Favourite match? I think his most recent ones with Magnus, against Crimson and Matt Morgan. They've shown a different side to him and allowed him to be a little more vocal outside the ring.

Don't know about THE most influential independent wrestler of the last 12 years, but I'd say he's up there as one of them.

As to who I'd like to see him against...Bully Ray or Abyss are the names that spring to mind.

dyrewolfe wrote:Not that I know much about WWE, but I'm guessing he wouldn't have fared any better, in terms of becoming "mainstream" or a superstar.

TNA have underused / wasted a lot of their talent. Having watched for the last couple of years and seen Joe in a good few fights (both singles and tag team matches) I agree is a great wrestler. Like Angle he is great "on the mat" and for a guy with his build, he's pretty athletic too. His only real weakness is his mic work. His speeches tend to be short and to the point and he tends to make his point with actions rather than words. For all that I still like him as a character, as well as a fighter.

However, just like Hollwood has their favourite actors, the wrestling business seems to have its favoured sons and daughters. I'd say that Joe has found his niche as an "outsider" and he isn't doing too badly right now. He currently holds the Tag Team title with Magnus and before that was usually on the fringes of the Heavyweight title scene.

All I would say is that TNA need to make sure he continues to get regular appearances. He may not be as big a character as some of the others, but he's worth keeping for his ring work alone.

If you ever get a chance mate, get yourself a gander at pre-Russo booking TNA, Joe, the guy had an aura about him that was something to behold, and while he was certainally an unconventional performer, I wouldn't say he was niche, he was arguably the most over star, anywhere outside the WWE, and for me should defiinatly have been given the NWA belt at BFG 2006, and have what would have been a massive feud with the newly signed Kurt Angle, eaked out over a period of 6 months to a year, instead Sting faced Jeff Jarrett at BFG and Russo spunked any unique value Joe vs Angle had out over 3 consecutive PPV matches and weekly interactions on Impact, that for me was the beginning of the end for the Joe, I'm guessing Hero is thinking of main eventing in the WWE

1. If Joe had gone to WWE with CM Punk, he'd have outgrown the Umaga gimmick earmarked for him and become a part of the main event with Punk by now.

He would've outgrown it and been re-packaged as something completely crap. Though he would've given Lashley a better match at Mania and may even got the best out of Kozolov.

2. What's your favorite Joe match? v Angle Genesis 2006

3. Samoa Joe is the most influential independent wrestler of the last 12 years.

I would go with that statement. Physically he looks like Dusty Rhodes, but wrestles ten times better.

4. What match do you want to see Joe in most among opponents he hasn't faced yet?

Go with H on this. v Lesnar would be epic in all proportions. Aside from that, HHH.

I loved Samoa Joe back in 05

Everything about him, his intensity, his music, the "Joe's gonna kill you" chants from the crowd - he was as hot as he's ever been back then.

Jow is an exceptionally agile guy for being his size. As stated in the OP when he's in the zone he brings an intensity that few can match.

That being said, I doubt he would be any better off in WWE. He doesn't fit in to their mould of being extremely well built, or massive. I can see them lumbering him with some terrible gimmick and then his head would go down and his effort would drop.

My favourite Joe match is probably Joe Vs Daniels Vs Styles. The first of these was epic...the second came very close to matching it.

Anyone that has Musclebusted Pope through a pig on TV deserves instant respect.

If we're talking a full on feud, then Lesnar is a great shout, but if we're talking a one off match...dues to his succes with guys like Styles and Daniels...perhaps someone like Truth or Kofi would put on a good show. I wouldn't mind seeing him up against Sheamus either as they can both be pretty brutal and devastating.

Despite Joe's obvious talents I just don't think he would have ever escaped that gimmick or have ever become a part of the main event, ironically, had he jumped to the WWE failed and returned to TNA he would most likely be held in higher esteem than now.

Even in TNA where the talent pool had been less for many years he eventually dropped out of the main event, even without a silly gimmick. I realise than TNA are hardly very good at dealing with talent, but I think his failure to maintain his spot in TNA is translatable to the likely failure to effectively climb the ladder of WWE.