Should Gatland resign/be sacked

6 Nations dominance is insufficient, Winning a lions tour means nothing. Is Gatland holding us back?

Wales are on 90% v the NH in the last 2 seasons but can't beat a SH side for toffee, last winning in 2008. If we can't beat the SH then competing in a RWC is just pointless.

9 Ls to Aus is absolutely intolerable even if we were missing key players today, Wales need new ideas. I think if we were losing in the 6 Nations Gats would have gone by now.

So, no poll, just an honest qualitative thread.

My take is drastic change is needed in the camp and how we play and are lead, but that to sack him 2 years out would do us even more harm.

My caveat is that, if he fails at 6 Nations time i would strongly advocate change immediately.

I don't think its gatland that has lost this game. Inaccurate execution and mistakes. Gatland didn't lose us lineouts or give away penalties. I didn't see him kicking away break with two minutes on the clock. Warburton was nowhere to be seen tonight and Jenkins was the only threat at the breakdown. The pack just didn't dominate as we had hoped.

Aus were sublime today. We didn't choke. We were lucky to still be in with a chance at the death. So well done them. The gap has opened up, it seems. As we know, though, there are problems with Gatball that have been exposed before by the big SH teams and even by Samoa and Argentina.
 
A) too much kicking away possession, usually badly. Mike Phillips box-kicks have been awful for years and the same was true today. Kicking to Folau and pals in acres of space in the middle of the park is suicidal.
 
B) lineouts. Surely this has to be a coaching problem. It has been fragile for so long now.
 
C) game management. 12 man line out when an Aussie back was in the bin?  Spurning all those goal kicks against Tonga?  That last kick out by Priestland?
 
D) don't get me started on Priestland. Last week posters were howling for the end of the "Hook project" because he kicked a few down the throats of the Tongan full back (who dropped at least one). When are we going to see the end of the Priestland project? He keeps making game-losing decisions and today added another to his collection.
 
E) too much boshing around the fringes, trying to press home and advantage in power and size that was actually illusory.
 
F) Obsession with size. See above.
 
G) selection. Ok, the choices are limited. But we looked much faster and more threatening with Tipuric and Williams. On the other hand, no need to change Biggar who has been doing fine.
 
Welsh fans like to lay the blame for this on Howley and the other underlings. To go further seems sacreligous, since Gats has delivered success in the 6N we haven't seen since the 70s. But so he SHOULD with this group of  players. As someone said, Graham Henry would have given his eyeteeth for guys like North, JD2, 1/2p, Toby, AWJ, Gethin, etc.

samuraidragon wrote:Aus were sublime today. We didn't choke. We were lucky to still be in with a chance at the death. So well done them. The gap has opened up, it seems. As we know, though, there are problems with Gatball that have been exposed before by the big SH teams and even by Samoa and Argentina.
 
A) too much kicking away possession, usually badly. Mike Phillips box-kicks have been awful for years and the same was true today. Kicking to Folau and pals in acres of space in the middle of the park is suicidal.
 
B) lineouts. Surely this has to be a coaching problem. It has been fragile for so long now.
 
C) game management. 12 man line out when an Aussie back was in the bin?  Spurning goal kicks against Tonga?  That last kick out by Priestland?
 
D) don't get me started on Priestland. Last week posters were howling for the end of the "Hook project" because he kicked a few down the throats of the Tongan full back (who dropped at least one). When are we going to see the end of the Priestland project? He keeps making game-losing decisions and today added another to his collection.
 
E) too much boshing around the fringes, trying to press home and advantage in power and size that was actually illusory.
 
F) Obsession with size. See above.
 
G) selection. Ok, the choices are limited. But we looked much faster and more threatening with Tipuric and Williams. On the other hand, no need to change Biggar who has been doing fine.
 
Welsh fans like to lay the blame for this on Howley and the other underlings. To go further seems sacreligous, who has delivered success in the 6N we haven't seen since the 70s. But so he SHOULD with this group of  players. As someone said, Graham Henry would have given his eyeteeth for guys like North, JD2, 1/2p, Toby, AWJ, Gethin, etc.

Two issues with this. Actually Wales lineouts have been fairly successful since huw Bennett retired and have only looked shaky again recently. Also priestland did Ok. The kick at the end didn't work but he had to try something. Had cuthbert not been playing his first game back it may have come off. There were problems buti don't think these were as you say.

I gave beena big fan of Philips but he's on the wain. Change the 9 and let our backline thrive

The question is a simple one.

Can Gatland take Wales any further?

The situation is rather tough, are Wales good enough to beat the SANZAR teams? Surely the answer to that is yes, but in more than twenty attempts they have only managed 1 win under Gatland against Australia, and that was ten matches ago.

If the answer to my first question is no, then Wales administrators need to decide whether they are happy with Wales ruling the roost in the European pond only, which I doubt, in that case Gatland must go.

Dont see the logic is that simple biltong. For one GATS remains the best NH coach since scw. None of the other coaches have won anything. Is there someone better to replace him? Before they start asking simple questions they need to consider the alternatives. I think the post is more about feeling better if he was dropped than anything practical or logical.
S
I mean should Gatland go right now...just before the 6N? No. Of course not.

Gatland is just like Deans he will not pick Hook like Deans not picking Cooper, these are the guys that can break defences as we saw from Cooper today, yes they make mistakes but they win more than lose. Priestland, are the French clubs knocking on his door to join then, no chance but Gatland for some reason picks him!

Another player Gatland seems to like as we know from the Lions tour is Lydiate, why, he is a one trick pony and it looks as if his ankles are shot, they have been strapped up for the last two seasons. Where was Lydiate (and Warburton) at the breakdowns going forward, Wales were hammered at the breakdowns. R Jones was outstanding during the last 6N and against Tonga, he did not get a single minute today stuck on the bench.

The main issue I saw today was Wales allowing Australia the space to play. There wasn't enough aggression at the breakdown and Michael Hooper was all over it. Compare that to the England - Australia game, where England rendered Hooper ineffective.

If you give that back division possession and room to move, they're going to score tries. If you don't, they'll still score tries, just not as many.

Wales should have had enough in the setpiece and at the breakdown to control the game, but they didn't. England and Ireland have showed that you have to take the game to the SH teams, and if you do, you have a chance. Wales didn't do that well enough.

Is it Gatland's fault? I think it probably is. He has a gameplan that relies on big men playing a power game with sufficient accuracy that eventually the dam breaks. It's proven effective against the NH, but not against SH sides who are used to soaking up pressure and clinical with every chance. It's very reliant on having the right personnel and Wales suffer when a few key players are out. He focuses on conditioning his players better than anyone else, but I think he takes them to a point where they break down easily. I found the first two Lions games deeply unconvincing - literally a piece of loose turf away from a losing series - and it wasn't until we had an NH ref and a few key changes of personnel that the Lions put in a convincing performance.

But for Wales it comes down to two questions: can Gatland develop a squad enough in 2 years that they can execute his gameplan to the level required to beat the SH? Is there another coach available who could turn it around in under two years?

I'm not sure on either count.

Jumping the gun a bit again, this article is almost as embarassing as our win/loss ratio Vs Aus. No I don't think Gats should go. He could do with showing a little humility in a post match conference though if those comments about the pass, etc are true. A lot of us have wanted to get shot of Howley and McBryde for a long time and I don't think many people's opinion would have changed even if we beat Aus today.

I haven't watched the game yet, someone had to go tell me the result and ruin the anticipation...

Poorfour wrote:The main issue I saw today was Wales allowing Australia the space to play. There wasn't enough aggression at the breakdown and Michael Hooper was all over it. Compare that to the England - Australia game, where England rendered Hooper ineffective.

If you give that back division possession and room to move, they're going to score tries. If you don't, they'll still score tries, just not as many.

Wales should have had enough in the setpiece and at the breakdown to control the game, but they didn't. England and Ireland have showed that you have to take the game to the SH teams, and if you do, you have a chance. Wales didn't do that well enough.

Is it Gatland's fault? I think it probably is. He has a gameplan that relies on big men playing a power game with sufficient accuracy that eventually the dam breaks. It's proven effective against the NH, but not against SH sides who are used to soaking up pressure and clinical with every chance. It's very reliant on having the right personnel and Wales suffer when a few key players are out. He focuses on conditioning his players better than anyone else, but I think he takes them to a point where they break down easily. I found the first two Lions games deeply unconvincing - literally a piece of loose turf away from a losing series - and it wasn't until we had an NH ref and a few key changes of personnel that the Lions put in a convincing performance.

But for Wales it comes down to two questions: can Gatland develop a squad enough in 2 years that they can execute his gameplan to the level required to beat the SH? Is there another coach available who could turn it around in under two years?

I'm not sure on either count.

Don't get me started on how exactly England rendered the breakdown a problem - for some reason they can do whatever they like at the breakdown and no referee dares penalise them at twickenham. Also Australia lost Scott Fardy to a bit off English underhand play, and he was a real stand out today against Wales. He hit the rucks, cleaned out quick ball and was constantly messing with the welsh halves.

The Saint wrote:Jumping the gun a bit again, this article is almost as embarassing as our win/loss ratio Vs Aus. No I don't think Gats should go. He could do with showing a little humility in a post match conference though if those comments about the pass, etc are true. A lot of us have wanted to get shot of Howley and McBryde for a long time and I don't think many people's opinion would have changed even if we beat Aus today.

I haven't watched the game yet, someone had to go tell me the result and ruin the anticipation...

Mmmm, was that someone on this forum?

I am not embarrassed at all to ask these questions, as should you be if you rate yourself as a fan

however if your embarrassment is too much to bear feel free not to post on it

 

definitely not. as an england fan supporting england in the same group in RWC2015 i hope Gatland is still the man. not a ringing endorsement, just a personal preference.

Scratch wrote:

The Saint wrote:Jumping the gun a bit again, this article is almost as embarassing as our win/loss ratio Vs Aus. No I don't think Gats should go. He could do with showing a little humility in a post match conference though if those comments about the pass, etc are true. A lot of us have wanted to get shot of Howley and McBryde for a long time and I don't think many people's opinion would have changed even if we beat Aus today.

I haven't watched the game yet, someone had to go tell me the result and ruin the anticipation...

Mmmm, was that someone on this forum?

I am not embarrassed at all to ask these questions, as should you be if you rate yourself as a fan

however if your embarrassment is too much to bear feel free not to post on it

 

You tend to overreact to a lot of posts don't you? I think it is a bit daft to consider showing Gats the door when he's the best coach in the NH and the only coach capable of taking us forward, though I've never ever been a fan of Howley and McBryde, but I doubt Gats would consider working without them two.

The Saint wrote:

Scratch wrote:

The Saint wrote:Jumping the gun a bit again, this article is almost as embarassing as our win/loss ratio Vs Aus. No I don't think Gats should go. He could do with showing a little humility in a post match conference though if those comments about the pass, etc are true. A lot of us have wanted to get shot of Howley and McBryde for a long time and I don't think many people's opinion would have changed even if we beat Aus today.

I haven't watched the game yet, someone had to go tell me the result and ruin the anticipation...

Mmmm, was that someone on this forum?

I am not embarrassed at all to ask these questions, as should you be if you rate yourself as a fan

however if your embarrassment is too much to bear feel free not to post on it

 

You tend to overreact to a lot of posts don't you? I think it is a bit daft to consider showing Gats the door when he's the best coach in the NH and the only coach capable of taking us forward, though I've never ever been a fan of Howley and McBryde, but I doubt Gats would consider working without them two.

Not quite sure where i have over reacted. I asked for a debate on the issue and if you find that embarrassing then , as i suggested, go post on a thread celebrating his achievements.  

You are talking utter nonsense about us moving forward.

He may be the best coach in the NH but he has resolutely not taken us forward by even the most liberal of assessments.

IMO we have stalled since RWC 2011 when he went off on his career jaunt.

We set a target of 3/4 for this autumn and we failed, again, to take Australia.

How is that 'taking us forward' please do enlighten me?

you are right scratch. gatball is never going to win a RWC. never. it's too predictable. maybe he is getting the best of the players but i doubt it. wales entire coaching focus should be on 10 decision-making, flat-passing and kicking. it is by far the most glaring weakness vs Aus and SA (proper examinations under pressure)

Because you get all defensive if somebody disagrees with you, you've just done it again and also left a childish remark which was unnecessary.

Not sure how I'm talking nonsense either. I said I think he's the best coach capable of taking us forward, not that he will, but we'd probably have a better chance of progressing with him than another coach from the NH. Who exactly do you think could come in and wave a magic wand?

quinsforever wrote:you are right scratch. gatball is never going to win a RWC. never. it's too predictable. maybe he is getting the best of the players but i doubt it. wales entire coaching focus should be on 10 decision-making, flat-passing and kicking. it is by far the most glaring weakness vs Aus and SA (proper examinations under pressure)

Wish there was an emoticon for biting your fist off

This hurts

I agree

england have a fairly pants 10 too. if a good one emerges maybe we can flip for him?

Above suggesting that gatland hadn't moved us on should remember where we were just after the 2007 wc. We have become hard to beat since then. Taking the next step is something else. Don't think gatland needs to go but he dies need a new approach

beer is off

wales 9 australia nil

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/8379349.stm

Not much changes over the years.

The whole Welsh psyche is wrong. From Gatland to Scott (rugby club) to most of the Welsh supporters to a man talked only about Wales would win. Even the players when interviewed talked about beating Australia. They raise expectations to ridiculous levels whilst firing up their opponents at the same time.

They all thought it was only a matter of turning up and Wales would win. We're going to win. It's about time we won. Etc.

Gatland and his players need to talk more about the effort and processes and the steps they need to get right during the match and then just maybe they might get a win. They need to acknowledge all the hard graft required and that their opponents are not in the top 3 for nothing. More respect wouldn't go a miss.

Scratch wrote:6 Nations dominance is insufficient, Winning a lions tour means nothing. Is Gatland holding us back?

Wales are on 90% v the NH in the last 2 seasons but can't beat a SH side for toffee, last winning in 2008. If we can't beat the SH then competing in a RWC is just pointless.

9 Ls to Aus is absolutely intolerable even if we were missing key players today, Wales need new ideas. I think if we were losing in the 6 Nations Gats would have gone by now.

So, no poll, just an honest qualitative thread.

My take is drastic change is needed in the camp and how we play and are lead, but that to sack him 2 years out would do us even more harm.

My caveat is that, if he fails at 6 Nations time i would strongly advocate change immediately.

Why would you sack him, the answer very simple, Wales are just not good enough.

Can the advocates for sacking Gats suggest someone better who is willing and available?

Don't think Wales should get shot of Gatland (though as a neutral I rarely make it through the entire 80mins of a Wales game at the moment, yesterday being an exception). He has Wales playing to a plan that has brought success and can still be very effective. The players clearly have huge respect for the man as well.

Personally I think Wales have 8-10 top players and the rest are solid. The trouble is that some of these 'solid' players fill key positions. You can carry a solid back 3 player or two, maybe a backrow or lock but it's more difficult when weaker players fill both the 9 and 10 jerseys. For me, this shows when Wales play the SH teams, in particular the top two who tend to be excellent from 1-15. With a pair of halfbacks delivering slow, poor quality ball and sending their ball carriers directly into contact instead of space Wales may as well be banging their collective head off a wall.

Currently I don't think Phillips and Biggar/Priestland would start for New Zealand, South Africa, Australia, England, France or Ireland. Scotland MIGHT take an outhalf but not a scrumhalf. This is why I would back Wales to beat England in a one-off but would think England more likely to go further in the world cup.

Robbie Deans?
Wayne Smith?
Pat Lam?

Declan Kidney is available, I seem to remember a few posters mentioning that they would take him over Howley last year.

Gatland is the best coach in the world, I would loathe to lose him.
I'd take 6 Nations titles and grand slams over November wins over the tri nations teams every day of the week.

Shifty wrote:...I'd take 6 Nations titles and grand slams over November wins over the tri nations teams every day of the week....

If November was the only month Wales couldn't get wins over the southern big 3, there would probably be less of a fuss on these forums.

Do Welsh supporters have no ambition for their side to win the World Cup? The only way that's going to happen is by beating one, or probably two, of those sides.

Shifty wrote:Gatland is the best coach in the world, I would loathe to lose him.
I'd take 6 Nations titles and grand slams over November wins over the tri nations teams every day of the week.

The problem isnt losing in the November . The problem is losing to SH teams all year round in general.

Shifty wrote:Gatland is the best coach in the world, I would loathe to lose him.
I'd take 6 Nations titles and grand slams over November wins over the tri nations teams every day of the week.

Settling for 6 nations titles over winning the world cup, that's a strange excuse.

To me looking in from the outside something needs to change, there just isn't that top two inches of performance you need to beat the big 3 SH teams. Could it be that Gatland has introduced too much confidence into his players - comments in the media certainly won't help that.

Shifty wrote:Gatland is the best coach in the world, I would loathe to lose him.
I'd take 6 Nations titles and grand slams over November wins over the tri nations teams every day of the week.

But Wales already have proved they are currently the top team in the NH and have been for a few years now.. why would you want Wales to stop there?  That is a bit of a defeatist attitude.

I don't know if he should be sacked. But, If Gatland as taken Wales as far as he can, then what is the point of staying on?

Maybe a really good look at the Welsh set up. I know Gatland is over all in charge of Wales,But maybe rather than blaming him, they should take a look at the other coaches,Howley, Edwards. the Players  in the team

And also the captain, is Sam Warburton actualy the best player to be Captain of Wales all the time?

The final score flattered Wales, we were second best throughout. And with such poor ball-retention, kicking strategies and an uninventive, ultra-predictable attacking pattern I don't know how the coach or the players could have expected any less.

The Saint wrote:Because you get all defensive if somebody disagrees with you, you've just done it again and also left a childish remark which was unnecessary.

Not sure how I'm talking nonsense either. I said I think he's the best coach capable of taking us forward, not that he will, but we'd probably have a better chance of progressing with him than another coach from the NH. Who exactly do you think could come in and wave a magic wand?

Saint grow up and get some thicker skin. If you recall you described the thread as embarrassing. There is nothing embarrassing about debating -on a forum- whether the coach of Wales should go after he has lead us to another defeat, the 20th i believe - against the SH.
Never seen a poster on a forum more apt to taking offense and shouting foul. Either discuss the issue or don't post on the thread

Yes calling for Gats to be sacked after everything he's done with our team from 2008 is an embarrassing suggestion. I discussed my point as far as it could be discussed, so either you missed it or just ignored it because you disagree, you even seen it posted last night. I haven't taken offense to your view, I just think it's an embarrassing suggestion. Bit of a rich accusation too, seeing as you always get so defensive when someone has a different opinion. So perhaps it is you that needs thicker skin?

GloriousEmpire wrote:

Poorfour wrote:The main issue I saw today was Wales allowing Australia the space to play. There wasn't enough aggression at the breakdown and Michael Hooper was all over it. Compare that to the England - Australia game, where England rendered Hooper ineffective.

If you give that back division possession and room to move, they're going to score tries. If you don't, they'll still score tries, just not as many.

Wales should have had enough in the setpiece and at the breakdown to control the game, but they didn't. England and Ireland have showed that you have to take the game to the SH teams, and if you do, you have a chance. Wales didn't do that well enough.

Is it Gatland's fault? I think it probably is. He has a gameplan that relies on big men playing a power game with sufficient accuracy that eventually the dam breaks. It's proven effective against the NH, but not against SH sides who are used to soaking up pressure and clinical with every chance. It's very reliant on having the right personnel and Wales suffer when a few key players are out. He focuses on conditioning his players better than anyone else, but I think he takes them to a point where they break down easily. I found the first two Lions games deeply unconvincing - literally a piece of loose turf away from a losing series - and it wasn't until we had an NH ref and a few key changes of personnel that the Lions put in a convincing performance.

But for Wales it comes down to two questions: can Gatland develop a squad enough in 2 years that they can execute his gameplan to the level required to beat the SH? Is there another coach available who could turn it around in under two years?

I'm not sure on either count.

Don't get me started on how exactly England rendered the breakdown a problem - for some reason they can do whatever they like at the breakdown and no referee dares penalise them at twickenham. Also Australia lost Scott Fardy to a bit off English underhand play, and he was a real stand out today against Wales. He hit the rucks, cleaned out quick ball and was constantly messing with the welsh halves.

Well done, GE, you've brought your obsession to yet another thread. You must be so proud. But this thread's about Wales, and what they didn't do was control the breakdown and contain Hooper. It's not very relevant what England were or weren't allowed to get away with, but Wales barely even tried. They're not going to beat the SH teams that way.

By the way, I notice no-one's been cited for Fardy's injury, so it can't have been that underhand.

nathan wrote:

Shifty wrote:Gatland is the best coach in the world, I would loathe to lose him.
I'd take 6 Nations titles and grand slams over November wins over the tri nations teams every day of the week.

Settling for 6 nations titles over winning the world cup, that's a strange excuse.

To me looking in from the outside something needs to change, there just isn't that top two inches of performance you need to beat the big 3 SH teams. Could it be that Gatland has introduced too much confidence into his players - comments in the media certainly won't help that.

He didn't say a World Cup win Nathan. He clearly said Autumn International wins. And i agree with him. I'd love us to win AI games, but they are just friendlies really. As are the summer tours. The 6N is an actual tournament, with points and cups and stuff. I don't care if it's not featuring the top 3 sides in the world, a tournament is a tournament, and for me I'd prefer to challenge for and win that than the AIs. Or to put it another way, I wouldn't trade an AI win for a 6N title. Ideally we'd be able to do both, but there you go.

I'd trade a World Cup win for a 6N title though, but then that's a proper tournament with points and cups and stuff.

Ok, better ring up NZ, SA and Aus and tell them they don't have to play us any more as the 6N is all we need  

Knowsit17 wrote:The final score flattered Wales, we were second best throughout. And with such poor ball-retention, kicking strategies and an uninventive, ultra-predictable attacking pattern I don't know how the coach or the players could have expected any less.

I agree. Wales were comprehensively out played for large parts of the match. If you take out that extremely fortuitous try in the first few minutes then the scoreline would have been more representative of the game overall.

Gatland is a great coach no question.

But he keeps backing himself into a corner by refusing to meet Refs before games (they might explain the forward pass rule to him) the way he conducts himself before and after games is a shambles and lets wales down IMO.

His track record vs SH teams is dreadful if he was the England coach he would have gone by now, IMO he has taken this group of players/coaches as far as he can.

He needs to change a few things or walk away.

Tbh I'm not sure whether it's Gatland's fault though. It could just be that the players are taking his gameplan too rigidly or one-sidedly. There is nothing wrong in theory with trying to lay a foundation for forward-oriented play as it can be very effective when done well but therein may lie the problem, the players take his strategy as instruction to concentrate on forward momentum at the neglect of largely everything else. There appears to be a lack of natural initiative and invention about the Welsh camp which is worrying seeing as all other top nations have it to an extent.

What is the consensus regarding Warburton

I really think he must be dropped at the very least as Captain and possibly entirely, i just think Tips has more to offer.

Tips is the better player

Lydiate or Warburton at 6….or Ryan Jones.

No Gatland should not go. It should be accepted that Wales do not have the depth of players to fill in against the top teams.
Justin Marshall on Scrum V was realistic and Australia if they had taken their chances would have won at a canter.
All the talk of ref decisions is not facing up to reality. Gats comments were very ungracious in defeat but that doesn't make him a bad coach.
If Wales or England for that matter had the sort of strike runners and skillful players such as QC they would be in the team but right now neither have.

The Saint wrote:Because you get all defensive if somebody disagrees with you, you've just done it again and also left a childish remark which was unnecessary.

Not sure how I'm talking nonsense either. I said I think he's the best coach capable of taking us forward, not that he will, but we'd probably have a better chance of progressing with him than another coach from the NH. Who exactly do you think could come in and wave a magic wand?

  Itchy and scratchy in a "Blue on blue" B1tch fight..........hilarious. I thought you two came as a bogof offer?

I tihnk Warbs and Tips is our best combo now, especially against guys like Hooper. Poor Lydiate had his ankle strapped up again, doesn't look as if they can take much more punishment. Our game plan is based around blitz defence, works a charm against the 6 Nations teams. Against the SH you need to perfectly execute a rush defence. Yesterday Aus backs not only had the ball kicked straight to them but were given too much space to work with. Do that and they'll score a lot more tries than usual. It's easy to say Aus could have scored more but they didn't because our defence was enough to pressurise them and keep them out; saying that, how they recovered from two massive hits and give the ball to Folau to score a try was remarkable. I was surprised at Phillips not nailing his man though.

samuraidragon wrote:Aus were sublime today. We didn't choke. We were lucky to still be in with a chance at the death. So well done them. The gap has opened up, it seems. As we know, though, there are problems with Gatball that have been exposed before by the big SH teams and even by Samoa and Argentina.
 
A) too much kicking away possession, usually badly. Mike Phillips box-kicks have been awful for years and the same was true today. Kicking to Folau and pals in acres of space in the middle of the park is suicidal.
 
B) lineouts. Surely this has to be a coaching problem. It has been fragile for so long now.
 
C) game management. 12 man line out when an Aussie back was in the bin?  Spurning all those goal kicks against Tonga?  That last kick out by Priestland?
 
D) don't get me started on Priestland. Last week posters were howling for the end of the "Hook project" because he kicked a few down the throats of the Tongan full back (who dropped at least one). When are we going to see the end of the Priestland project? He keeps making game-losing decisions and today added another to his collection.
 
E) too much boshing around the fringes, trying to press home and advantage in power and size that was actually illusory.
 
F) Obsession with size. See above.
 
G) selection. Ok, the choices are limited. But we looked much faster and more threatening with Tipuric and Williams. On the other hand, no need to change Biggar who has been doing fine.
 
Welsh fans like to lay the blame for this on Howley and the other underlings. To go further seems sacreligous, since Gats has delivered success in the 6N we haven't seen since the 70s. But so he SHOULD with this group of  players. As someone said, Graham Henry would have given his eyeteeth for guys like North, JD2, 1/2p, Toby, AWJ, Gethin, etc.

So much sense in this post. I agree with all of it - bar the comment about Priestland. Yes, that kick at the end was a gamble we didn't need to take, but anyone saying he should never play again because of it should remember Scotland 2010 when Stephen Jones put in a cross kick that could easily have bounced out and we'd have lost. It didn't, it was gathered, and Shane Williams scored a match-winning try. Similarly, Dan Biggar's kick through for George North's try could easily have bounced into touch, but his supporters point to it as a piece of genius because of a favourable bounce.

But Priestland really should have kept the ball in hand.