My Ten Brits that didn't fulfil their potential

10. John Conteh - World champion for sure but from what I've seen..could have been very special
9. Tony Sibson - Maybe at another time..Not his fault perhaps.
8. Ryan Rhodes - First saw him I thought he had it all...
7. Michael Watson - Thought he'sd beat Eubank and Mccallum..fought the wrong fights..
6. Colin jones - One of the most talented guys I've ever seen.
5. Audley Harrison - Southpaw, good jab, all the tools but lacked something..
4. Barry Mcguigan - Does Cruz in a rematch but came back too late..
3. Naseem Hamed - All the big fights he missed out on...Barrera could've been forgiven.
2. Herol Graham - Probably the most talented of the lot.
1. Kirkland Laing -criminal the way he wasted it..

Obviously the fact I have restricted knowledge of British boxing weights the list more in favor of the modern fighter... who I'm more clued up on but I'd be glad to hear of more worthy candidates old and new..

But this is my list.

BTW I know Mcguigan is contentious but let's not dwell on it..He's in my list..

honorary Brit..

[quote="TRUSSMAN66"]10. John Conteh - World champion for sure but from what I've seen..could have been very special
9. Tony Sibson - Maybe at another time..Not his fault perhaps.
8. Ryan Rhodes - First saw him I thought he had it all...
7. Michael Watson - Thought he'sd beat Eubank and Mccallum..fought the wrong fights..
6. Colin jones - One of the most talented guys I've ever seen.
5. Audley Harrison - Southpaw, good jab, all the tools but lacked something..
4. Barry Mcguigan - Does Cruz in a rematch but came back too late..
3. Naseem Hamed - All the big fights he missed out on...Barrera could've been forgiven.
2. Herol Graham - Probably the most talented of the lot.
1. Kirkland Laing -criminal the way he wasted it..

Obviously the fact I have restricted knowledge of British boxing weights the list more in favor of the modern fighter... who I'm more clued up on but I'd be glad to hear of more worthy candidates old and new..

Truss, what if, and it's a big if I know, Rhodes beats Alvarez. Does he then be classed as having fufilled his potential or do you think he should have done more already?

Decent list though.

The one that leaps out to me is Benny Lynch. A truly terrific fighter, many argue he is good as anything we ever produced, who like Conteh frittered away what could have been his finest years through booze. Still one of the finest flyweights of all time but according to all reports could have been so much more.

Some great picks, in my opinion, Truss.

A couple who spring to mind as possible additions would be two men who gave their all but who, through no fault of their own, fell short of world level.

One would be our fine lightweight from the late fifties / early sixties, Dave Charnley, who, among other things, probably found himself on the wrong side of a poor decision in one of his tilts at Joe Brown's lightweight title.

The other would be the perennial bantamweight contender from the sixties, Alan Rudkin, whose misfortune it was to inhabit the same period in history as Fighting Harada, Lionel Rose, ( whom he came within a split decision of dethroning, ) and the awesome Olivares.

Must say that I'd have had Benny Lynch and Joe Bugner in the top ten, also, but it's all about opinions.

Herol Graham - Probably the most talented of the lot.

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Herrol was extremly gifted but liked a tool that is essential at World level boxing and that is a good chin.

Definatley the best Bristish boxer not to pick up a world title. That Jackson knockout probs sums his career up.

Think most of the right names are there, Truss. For me though, Conteh would have to be nearer to the top (unless you're using random ordering, of course). He had it all and I'm convinced that he'd have beaten Foster in 1974 had he not retired when Conteh was his mandatory.

Lynch is another good shout by Rowley. As I've said before, Gilbert Odd saw every great Flyweight, in the flesh, from the days of Wilde and Villa, to Perez and Kingpetch, to Canto and Chitalada, and he maintained that in his finest form, Lynch was probably the best of the lot.

Think I might have to add Howard Eastman to the lower end of the list. A much better fighter than many people (including himself, oddly enough) seem to think and he should have kicked himself all the way back over the Atlantic for that loss to Joppy in 2001; clowned away his chance of taking a world title against a fighter who was there to be beaten.

Dave Charnley springs to mind, too; although you can argue that rather than underachieving, he was simply unlucky to be a contemporary of an all-time great Lightweight in Joe Brown back in the days of one world title per division. I still think he deserved the nod in their second title bout in London, but it wasn't controversial enough to call it a "robbery" in Brown's favour.

Not sure I would have him in because I was never convinced he was that good but where do people stand on Scott Harrison, as I know some rated him a little higher than me so does anyone feel he justifies inclusion?

Its not a bad a list but theres a couple I would argue.

I think McGuigan acheived to quite a considerable level. Ended up a world champion and HoF. Dont think he could have done a huge amount more. Beating Cruz in a rematch wouldnt really meant a great deal in an overall sense. I think he was on the way out then.

Another is Audley Harrison. I pondered a while ago about the so called potential he never realised and my conclusion is that he just wasnt all that great. I believe the step up in level between amateur and pro is massive and a medal in the amateurs is no garauntee of success in the pros. When you look at some of Harrisons losses in the amateurs to guys who turned pro then it indicates the writing may have been on the wall early. He lost to guys like Sergei Liakyhovitch in the amateurs who was nothing special as a pro. Probably fair to say the amateur style suited Harrison better also but I tend to think now that he just wasnt all that good.

Tricky to say what would have happened with Watson but I tend to think he would not have risen above anything Benn or Eubank managed.

Can understand why Harrison and Watson are in there (not so much McGuigan) but I would probably sacrifice them and add in the likes of Benny Lynch or even Scott Harrison who could have gone on to even better things.

Truss, what about Howard Eastman? Very talented guy and had all tools, just didn't seem to believe in himself enough after the Joppy fight.

Michael Brodie and Howard Eastman are two that stand out for me. (Bloody hell, Chris beats me to the shout for Eastman)

If your adding Conteh despite him winning a World title then surely Calzaghe has to be up there given the opportunities he missed.

Manos, I was going to mention harrison but I think he pretty much plateaued and never looked like getting any better after winning his title.

Alex Arthur is another one who showed great potential but after being beaten by Gomez, they tailored his style towards being more defensive minded and it took something away from his boxing.

As a result he was left behind in favour of other Warren bright lights

DAVE667 wrote:Michael Brodie and Howard Eastman are two that stand out for me. (Bloody hell, Chris beats me to the shout for Eastman)

If your adding Conteh despite him winning a World title then surely Calzaghe has to be up there given the opportunities he missed.

He beat me to it as well. Show-off.

Howard Eastman is a good call.....Brodie was unlucky too especially against the mexican....Certainly worthy mentions..

Charnley and lynch I'll say I know very little about although I have heard of Lynch......Must look into Charnley..

Cheers..

Mcguigan had so many opportunities left...Cruz return....Nelson...

Quit way too soon...Thought he was a good pressure fighter with plenty left to offer..

But opinions differ and yours is welcome..

If it's fulfilling potential, how about Joe Calzaghe? Surely he was better than wins in this order:

Kessler
Hopkins
Eubank
Lacy
Reid

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Howard Eastman is a good call.....Brodie was unlucky too especially against the mexican....Certainly worthy mentions..

Charnley and lynch I'll say I know very little about although I have heard of Lynch......Must look into Charnley..

Cheers..

Mcguigan had so many opportunities left...Cruz return....Nelson...

Quit way too soon...Thought he was a good pressure fighter with plenty left to offer..

But opinions differ and yours is welcome..

I dont think he much left after the Cruz fight. He retired because he was wrecked and was never the same after the death of his father. Facing Nelson at that point in his career would have been an almost garaunteed beating. Didnt look to be the same fighter to me after Cruz and may have even been on the slide prior to that.

He only lost to Mcdonnell and that was because he got cut.

Think Audley was useless and was in right place, right time for Olympic gold.

Jones, Watson and Sibson did what they could with what they had against who they fought.

Graham had plenty of chances, but agree about his quality.

Hamed, Laing and Conteh I fully agree with. Laing is the biggest waste.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:He only lost to Mcdonnell and that was because he got cut.

Yeah but he was facing no hopers. His heart just wasnt in it anymore and to try and face someone like Nelson at that point would have been a disaster. I dont think he would have retired if he genuinely felt he could reach the top or could perform to near his best.

He wasted a couple of years motor racing and singing didn't he???

Alot easier for heavier men to get away with long periods of inactivity..not so good for the little guys.

No doubt about Conteh, Lynch, Hamed and Laing in this category. I've always thought that Bomber was just cursed by misfortune, although he made a couple of particularly witless decisions (going to Eastwood, messing around with Jackson, rather than finishing the job and so on). A contentious point deduction and he gets a re-match with McCallum that he might have won. Calling him chinny is extremely unfair, in my view. McCallum couldn't shift him, and Bomber was well into his 30s when he came unstitched a couple of times late on in his career. There is no shame in being sparked by Jackson, who did it to everyone (bar McCallum) that he ever tagged properly.

Walter McGowan is a good choice here. One of the best pure boxers we've ever had and briefly world flyweight champion, but a worse propensity to cut than Henry Cooper and Alan Minter put together meant that he never could fulfil his real potential. An unsung hero of the British ring.

Michaels, Sean wrote:If it's fulfilling potential, how about Joe Calzaghe?

I think this is a really good shout. Hard to say that a two weight world champion never lived up to his potential, but he never fought the truly greats until he thought they were past it. Even a fight against Ottke would have given him more currency in the street cred market and most people, including me, think he would have won that. Lots of arguments you can put in on why it didn't happen, but lack of ambition will be his legacy.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:He wasted a couple of years motor racing and singing didn't he???

Alot easier for heavier men to get away with long periods of inactivity..not so good for the little guys.

He was involved in a fairly serious legal battle with his former manager. I think the legal issues, death of his father and grueling loss meant he was pretty much a spent force. He said himself the reason he retired after McDonnell was because he knew he didnt have it anymore.

Had he lasted a bit longer at the top I would agree that a fight with Nelson would have been an obvious choice. But afer his loss to Cruz I think he was mentally and physically finished.

Given his talents and what he ended up acheiving I think he did ok in terms of realising potential.

maybe you're right..only a k**b what make an Irish boy fight a guy used to heat in 130 fahrenheit...

Crazy.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:maybe you're right..only a k**b what make an Irish boy fight a guy used to heat in 130 fahrenheit...

Crazy.

Yeah bad idea. I dont think they viewed Cruz as a big threat but outdoors in Vegas at the height of the Summer is a definate career shortner. Especially with McGuigans style.

Fernando Sosa was the opponent and Cruz substituted for him at the last minute..

Sosa was a plodder.........

He might not make my top 10 but Scott Harrison was a very good fighter who threw it away when his career was starting to tak off.

As I said earlier Kev, I think harrison had already peaked when he was Chmpion. he showed some goo early promised but then just seemed to stop. He was a huge FW and before he managed to drag former SBW Brodie into a scrap, Michael was making him look silly at times

One fight I would have loved to see would have been Harrison against In Jin Chi

i think naz is the best shout- with only himself to blame, no denying he had bags and bags of natural talent, which he relyed on too much, shirking of training and the lifestyle for the clubs and nightlife. he didn't embaress himself against barrera and could have been an atg imo if he had the dedication to see his career through. great shame.

bhb001 wrote:

Michaels, Sean wrote:If it's fulfilling potential, how about Joe Calzaghe?

I think this is a really good shout. Hard to say that a two weight world champion never lived up to his potential, but he never fought the truly greats until he thought they were past it. Even a fight against Ottke would have given him more currency in the street cred market and most people, including me, think he would have won that. Lots of arguments you can put in on why it didn't happen, but lack of ambition will be his legacy.

You're missing something here.Ottke fought in a ,ahem, "controlled environment" whereby he could not lose.The one fight Joe should definitely not have taken.

DAVE667 wrote:As I said earlier Kev, I think harrison had already peaked when he was Chmpion. he showed some goo early promised but then just seemed to stop. He was a huge FW and before he managed to drag former SBW Brodie into a scrap, Michael was making him look silly at times

One fight I would have loved to see would have been Harrison against In Jin Chi

He wasted his talent with his behaviour outside the ring. He undoubtedly had more to offer than he showed if he had stayed away from the drink. The Brodie fight was a strange performance he never looked his best that night and should have dealt with Brodie much better.

Anthony Logan, Gary Stretch, Glenn McRory, Junior Witter.

andygf wrote:

bhb001 wrote:

Michaels, Sean wrote:If it's fulfilling potential, how about Joe Calzaghe?

I think this is a really good shout. Hard to say that a two weight world champion never lived up to his potential, but he never fought the truly greats until he thought they were past it. Even a fight against Ottke would have given him more currency in the street cred market and most people, including me, think he would have won that. Lots of arguments you can put in on why it didn't happen, but lack of ambition will be his legacy.

You're missing something here.Ottke fought in a ,ahem, "controlled environment" whereby he could not lose.The one fight Joe should definitely not have taken.

As I said, lots of arguments why it didn't happen. I will never be convinced he wanted the fight; just that little bit too risky, eventhough I am convinced the man as a fighter was as talented a man as we are likely to see from these shores.

Not sure how you could think that Audley Harrison had a good jab. He had a massive reach but his jab had no snap and lacked any authority. He also appeared to scared to throw it half the time.
Naz is an obvious choice for unfulfilled potential. However, I think his unorthodox style would have always come off 2nd best against the more elite boxers. MAB would have beaten any version of Naz imo, as would Morales, Paquaio, JMM etc.
Witter is a decent shout. Had the ability to achieve more than he did.

Kirkland Laing is a very decent shout for number 1, 'the gifted one' was a truly appropriate nickname, he managed to fritter it all away nonetheless.

errol christie would have made my list , now he did have a glass jaw!

Errol Christie is an interesting shout.Saw him at close quarters right from his schoolboy days.Schoolboy international,great Amateur.Dedicated,good all round fighter but never quite achieved in the pro ranks
He was a bit chinny but the fight with Kaylor is a British title classic.Not sure where it went wrong but i thought Errol was a certain world champion.
I would have Conteh top of the list as he was a great athlete and a fine boxer.
Lynch from back in the day ranks the same
I am a huge McGuigan fan but think Barry got the most out of himself.Fine champion but not in the league of the brilliant Nelson and Sanchez (no shame there)
I would add Honeyghan .On his day a match for anyone.Trouble was he was erratic.You would never know what Lloyd would turn up.Same attitude to his training .He beat the best pound for pound fighter at the time in Curry and that should not be forgotten.Never reached those heights again though and that was down to a lack of dedication and poor attitude.

To be fair, in a weird way Howard Eastman could be another.

Got jacked for a world title (and the elevation he deserved) and never seemed to go onto bigger things which most thought he would do... Not a clear cut waste of talent, but certainly didn't get to the echelon of ratings etc i thought he personally would

Not sure about Eastman.

Maybe he should have got the nod v Joppy, but with B-hop around he was always going to be an 'also-ran'.

Kirk Laing for me. He had everything but liked to party too much.

Barry McGuigan, I feel could have potentially achieved more and if circumstances were different then he probably would have. The death of his father affected him badly, he had a very public split with his promoter and putting him in 100 degree heat against substitute Stevie Cruz was absolutely stupid - that fight and his own courage took alot out of him.
I certainly believe that he was a better fighter than Cruz and on a different day and out of the glaring sun - he'd have won.

I believe something like 18 million UK TV viewers watched Barry win the World title, which is an amazing figure. He beat the likes of Juan LaPorte and Bernard Taylor.

While I believe his reign could have been longer, I don't think he would have beaten his rival Azumah Nelson - no shame in that.

Kirkland Laing is normally top of the list for unfulfilled potential and its easy to see why, so much natural ability.

Spot on about Conteh, had to the talent to be a true great.

I agree to some extent that JC's achievements are outwieghed by his talents, but anyone who seriously thinks Ottke would have beaten him is deluded

Day V Lately wrote:Spot on about Conteh, had to the talent to be a true great.

I agree to some extent that JC's achievements are outwieghed by his talents, but anyone who seriously thinks Ottke would have beaten him is deluded

Agree wholeheartedly about the Ottke situation. Whilst I fully understand Joe's reluctance to travel to Germany I seriously believe all Joe needs is a ref who can count to ten as when the fight was realistic he beats Ottke six ways to Sunday. Pity the fight never happened because if Joe could have unified shorter in his reign have to think some big fights could have come sooner because anyone wnating to do anything at supermiddle would have had to go through Joe to do so.

To be honest, it didn't even really matter too much if Calzaghe didn't get the decision. No-one honestly believes Robin Reid deserved to lose against Ottke and no-one holds it against him in the great scheme of things.

So, Calzaghe gets robbed in a fight he clearly wins in the eyes of everyone watching (except the judges). As the better fighter, would it severely impact on his future plans if he wanted to go out and challenge the top guys? Didn't bother Barrera that he didn't have a strap, everyone knew who the "man" was in the division.

Same applies to RJJ fighting Michelczewski. So Roy may have been robbed, doesn't mean people are going to stop watching him fight.

Too much significance put on being a belt holder and it's a situation that's getting worse

Dave not really boxing related but did everything work itself out work wise. Hope I can interpret your continued posting on here as an indicator everything turned out alright

rowley wrote:Dave not really boxing related but did everything work itself out work wise. Hope I can interpret your continued posting on here as an indicator everything turned out alright

Likewise.

The best I can say is that I've been given a stay of execution for the next six months. However, no-one seems to be able to say with any certainty that things won't change after then.

We've put in a number of reports outlining how my unit is the busiest and most cost effective in the Force (West Yorkshire) and, should any changes be made, they should be made with a view to bringing others into line with our working practices. Management seem to concur with that idea, but sadly, sometimes, the sensible thing to do isn't what actually gets done.

Doesn't help matters that my wife is desperate to move house. If we keep our jobs, it isn't a problem but without that guarantee, we're reluctant to make such a step.

Billy Schwer always struck me as someone who maybe could have achieved a bit more. Unlucky with fragile skin and lost to good champions in Ruelas and Johnston but definitely had something about him. Maybe with a bit more luck he could have nabbed a world belt. Would have had some decent fights with Murray/Mitchell/Rees if he was about now.

My wife is desperate to move house......

To any house without you in it!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:My wife is desperate to move house......

To any house without you in it!

Why doesn't she stay where she is then? I don't live in your house, she''l be fine

Oh I get it, you were trying to be funny and infer that MY wife wants to move to a house without ME!

Oh yes, very good, very witty, very droll













Assclown!