About v2Premiership Club owners want to take over from the RFU and run international rugby.
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beshocked
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Premiership Club owners want to take over from the RFU and run international rugby.
by maestegmafia Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:09 pm
From an article by Paul Ackford
A couple of weeks ago, I was in a cab with a senior executive of a Premiership club. It was late, drink had been taken and the talk turned to the state of European rugby politics, which, at that stage, appeared to be favouring the English clubs’ desire to exercise greater influence over the two European rugby tournaments.
“This is only the beginning,” the grandee said. “What if I were to tell you that some of us are looking at how we can run the whole of the professional game in England, including the national team. We reckon it would cost us about £200 million to acquire those rights from the Rugby Football Union.”
Just the tired and emotional, delusional ramblings of a maverick potentate? That’s what I thought, until I raised the topic with another leading club administrator this week. “It’s true,” he said. “There are some individuals having those conversations at the moment. The figure I heard is £250 million, which they reckon is the RFU’s approximate annual profit [£25 million], ramped up by a multiple of ten. Take that to a venture capitalist and he might be interested.
A couple of weeks ago, I was in a cab with a senior executive of a Premiership club. It was late, drink had been taken and the talk turned to the state of European rugby politics, which, at that stage, appeared to be favouring the English clubs’ desire to exercise greater influence over the two European rugby tournaments.
“This is only the beginning,” the grandee said. “What if I were to tell you that some of us are looking at how we can run the whole of the professional game in England, including the national team. We reckon it would cost us about £200 million to acquire those rights from the Rugby Football Union.”
Just the tired and emotional, delusional ramblings of a maverick potentate? That’s what I thought, until I raised the topic with another leading club administrator this week. “It’s true,” he said. “There are some individuals having those conversations at the moment. The figure I heard is £250 million, which they reckon is the RFU’s approximate annual profit [£25 million], ramped up by a multiple of ten. Take that to a venture capitalist and he might be interested.
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Re: Premiership Club owners want to take over from the RFU and run international rugby.
by lostinwales Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:14 pm
[b]maestegmafia[/b] wrote:From an article by Paul Ackford
A couple of weeks ago, I was in a cab with a senior executive of a Premiership club. It was late, drink had been taken and the talk turned to the state of European rugby politics, which, at that stage, appeared to be favouring the English clubs’ desire to exercise greater influence over the two European rugby tournaments.
“This is only the beginning,” the grandee said. “What if I were to tell you that some of us are looking at how we can run the whole of the professional game in England, including the national team. We reckon it would cost us about £200 million to acquire those rights from the Rugby Football Union.”
Just the tired and emotional, delusional ramblings of a maverick potentate? That’s what I thought, until I raised the topic with another leading club administrator this week. “It’s true,” he said. “There are some individuals having those conversations at the moment. The figure I heard is £250 million, which they reckon is the RFU’s approximate annual profit [£25 million], ramped up by a multiple of ten. Take that to a venture capitalist and he might be interested.
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Re: Premiership Club owners want to take over from the RFU and run international rugby.
by maestegmafia Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:42 pm
lostinwales wrote:[b]maestegmafia[/b] wrote:From an article by Paul Ackford
A couple of weeks ago, I was in a cab with a senior executive of a Premiership club. It was late, drink had been taken and the talk turned to the state of European rugby politics, which, at that stage, appeared to be favouring the English clubs’ desire to exercise greater influence over the two European rugby tournaments.
“This is only the beginning,” the grandee said. “What if I were to tell you that some of us are looking at how we can run the whole of the professional game in England, including the national team. We reckon it would cost us about £200 million to acquire those rights from the Rugby Football Union.”
Just the tired and emotional, delusional ramblings of a maverick potentate? That’s what I thought, until I raised the topic with another leading club administrator this week. “It’s true,” he said. “There are some individuals having those conversations at the moment. The figure I heard is £250 million, which they reckon is the RFU’s approximate annual profit [£25 million], ramped up by a multiple of ten. Take that to a venture capitalist and he might be interested.
Thats it attack the poster and ignore the topic...!!! How incredibly lazy...
This is something you should be very interested in if you are an English Rugby fan.
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Re: Premiership Club owners want to take over from the RFU and run international rugby.
by GloriousEmpire Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:54 pm
Wait, here's another slant:
Cunning premiership boss takes journalist out, gets him liquored and then seeds an idea for a scandalous yet almost anonymous story into the press...putting the wind up the worried blazers at RFU and adding extra leverage to negotiations.
Any top boss worth his salt doesn't accidentally get drunk with a journalist and let things slip...if he wants to keep his cushy 6+ figure executive pay packet.
Cunning premiership boss takes journalist out, gets him liquored and then seeds an idea for a scandalous yet almost anonymous story into the press...putting the wind up the worried blazers at RFU and adding extra leverage to negotiations.
Any top boss worth his salt doesn't accidentally get drunk with a journalist and let things slip...if he wants to keep his cushy 6+ figure executive pay packet.
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Re: Premiership Club owners want to take over from the RFU and run international rugby.
by GunsGerms Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:02 pm
I have no idea why so many people take the PRL so seriously. What they have managed to get as a "compramise" already is impressive. How they have managed to pull the wool over so many peoples eyes I cant understand.
Is it human nature to give in eventually and compramise even when compramise is in reality a swing in the wrong direction?
Is it human nature to give in eventually and compramise even when compramise is in reality a swing in the wrong direction?
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Re: Premiership Club owners want to take over from the RFU and run international rugby.
by GloriousEmpire Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:10 pm
Compromise? Human Nature?
Only for the weak minded.
Only for the weak minded.
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Re: Premiership Club owners want to take over from the RFU and run international rugby.
by Guest Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:14 pm
Wonder what the players think about clubs? Pay me more pay me more!!! Scoff scoff oink scoff.
Guest- Guest
Re: Premiership Club owners want to take over from the RFU and run international rugby.
by maestegmafia Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:24 pm
"Those Jedi mind tricks won't work on me...!"GloriousEmpire wrote:Compromise? Human Nature?
Only for the weak minded.
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Re: Premiership Club owners want to take over from the RFU and run international rugby.
by beshocked Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:47 pm
GunsGerms not quite sure I understand this comment of yours.GunsGerms wrote:I have no idea why so many people take the PRL so seriously. What they have managed to get as a "compramise" already is impressive. How they have managed to pull the wool over so many peoples eyes I cant understand.
Is it human nature to give in eventually and compramise even when compramise is in reality a swing in the wrong direction?
You evidently take the PRL deadly seriously. Many of your posts seem to be about them. Pulling wool over so many eyes? How so?
I would say the wool pulling has all come from the French. Jedi mind tricks? Again the French.
Interesting isn't it - two points of view.
These are two points of view also: A French and English one:
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/nov/30/rugby-champions-cup-french-european?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/nov/29/nigel-wray-english-clubs-heineken-cup-boycott
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Re: Premiership Club owners want to take over from the RFU and run international rugby.
by Sin é Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:49 pm
I seem to remember them threatening to go on strike in '07 if there was going to be no Heineken Cup! The French were doing all the running that time though.ebop wrote:Wonder what the players think about clubs? Pay me more pay me more!!! Scoff scoff oink scoff.
No doubt about it, the players want to be playing European Cup Rugby and if English clubs are not, quite a few of them will be moving to France (or Wales)
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Re: Premiership Club owners want to take over from the RFU and run international rugby.
by GunsGerms Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:51 pm
I dont take them seriously at all. I think their proposals make about as much sense as Anders Breivik's manifesto. They have played a blinder in convincing the Hcup nations to make the proposed changes that they have though.
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Re: Premiership Club owners want to take over from the RFU and run international rugby.
by beshocked Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:57 pm
Gunsgerms you don't take them seriously yet you seem to comment on them a lot. If you didn't take them seriously you would ignore them. You cannot ignore the PRL. They represent the English clubs. As much as you don't like it the English clubs are important in an European context. There could be a HC without them of course but it will diminish the value significantly.
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Re: Premiership Club owners want to take over from the RFU and run international rugby.
by Sin é Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:57 pm
They have stabbed themselves in the back though because they are out of it now, and its all their own fault.GunsGerms wrote:I dont take them seriously at all. I think their proposals make about as much sense as Anders Breivik's manifesto. They have played a blinder in convincing the Hcup nations to make the proposed changes that they have though.
You think they would have learned from their past experiences dealing with the French clubs !
We learned our lesson with the French back in 1798 and have never forgotten it!
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Re: Premiership Club owners want to take over from the RFU and run international rugby.
by Sin é Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:00 pm
We'll miss 1 English club - Leicester who have a great Heineken Cup history. The rest just make up the numbers and I'd be quite happy never to see Saracens in the competition again in its present guise.beshocked wrote:Gunsgerms you don't take them seriously yet you seem to comment on them a lot. If you didn't take them seriously you would ignore them. You cannot ignore the PRL. They represent the English clubs. As much as you don't like it the English clubs are important in an European context. There could be a HC without them of course but it will diminish the value significantly.
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Re: Premiership Club owners want to take over from the RFU and run international rugby.
by Sin é Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:03 pm
Just a reminder of a supposed leak a few months back from an insider:
A few random musings:
Obviously in this litigious society no one should make statements in relation to other peoples private dealings without having proof. Therefore all we can do is make Hypothetical assumptions about what may be going on. Let's pretend an imagined employee of a national rugby union had seen a copy of the BT deal. He could then give hypothetical explanations to the following recent occurrences.
1) Why the PRL have been so vocal about trying to push their new European league on the rest of us and increasingly so as the deadline draws near.
2) Why the RFU have been so quiet about the whole matter.
3) The French clubs interest over an extended T14.
4) LNR representatives making references to “Contracts being signed” and “having to help the English from the mess they have created”.
5) And most importantly why no one has been shown a copy of the BT agreement except the RFU.
This imagined employee might say that the BT deal "Allegedly" states that:
1) The European pot is highly dependent on the number of tier 1 nation clubs taking part. Less than four nations and only travel costs for each team are paid. Only four and 50% is paid, 5 nation’s means 75% and all 6 are needed for the full 100%.
2) The European pot is for a “NEW” European cup of which the PRL, LNR and BT are the majority shareholders and control 60% of the vote,
3) The amount paid for the premier league is also highly dependent on the formation of a new PRL/LNR European Cup. The figure paid this year consists of a significant % of a “Signing on bonus” this applies to the first year only. For each successive year, a similar bonus exists dependent on the PRL having provided BT with a new European Cup. This is also graded according to the number of Tier 1 nations clubs involved, identical to the conditions above. Zero for less than 4, 75% for 5 etc. If PRL are not able to provide a new European Cup their league payments drop to a lower figure than the previous SKY deal.
4) The BT deal applies to all home games in England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland. The percentages offered to Scotland, Wales and Ireland as stated by PRL are correct. They however receive around 50% of the total pot and France receives the remainder. How can this be true? Why is the LNR share smaller than now and Italy have none.
5) The LNR have been offered a share of the pot equal to that of Wales, Scotland and Ireland but have also been given the right to negotiate their own TV deal of which PRL will receive, an equal percentage as the LNR receive from the BT deal. To legitimise this based on TV markets, the Italians are allowed (have to) negotiate their own TV deal.
What would this all mean? Yes the other nations would all make more money than they are now. The PRL clubs will however make substantially more money than the Celts. 50% of BT deal plus 11% of LNR deal compared to just 11% of the BT deal for the Celts. The French stand to make even more from a new deal due to the competition between Canal and a new competitor.
However if a new European Cup does not come about the PRL will receive no European money, even for a French/English league. They will also lose their bonus league payments leaving them worse off financially than they are now. By signing the deal they excluded themselves from taking part in any ERC competition, hence it’s all or nothing for them. The LNR have signed a contract for a new European CUP but it is also conditional on having four Tier one nation members before coming into affect. This provides them with the guarantees but it also means they are not prohibited from re-entering the ERC.
This would explain why the RFU are the only ones who have been shown the Deal, and why they have refused to come out against the clubs. Despite not being in favour of the PRL’s actions they now have no choice but to allow a new European Cup or else most of the premier clubs will be bankrupt in time for the World Cup.
Just as well this is all Hypothetical "
A few random musings:
Obviously in this litigious society no one should make statements in relation to other peoples private dealings without having proof. Therefore all we can do is make Hypothetical assumptions about what may be going on. Let's pretend an imagined employee of a national rugby union had seen a copy of the BT deal. He could then give hypothetical explanations to the following recent occurrences.
1) Why the PRL have been so vocal about trying to push their new European league on the rest of us and increasingly so as the deadline draws near.
2) Why the RFU have been so quiet about the whole matter.
3) The French clubs interest over an extended T14.
4) LNR representatives making references to “Contracts being signed” and “having to help the English from the mess they have created”.
5) And most importantly why no one has been shown a copy of the BT agreement except the RFU.
This imagined employee might say that the BT deal "Allegedly" states that:
1) The European pot is highly dependent on the number of tier 1 nation clubs taking part. Less than four nations and only travel costs for each team are paid. Only four and 50% is paid, 5 nation’s means 75% and all 6 are needed for the full 100%.
2) The European pot is for a “NEW” European cup of which the PRL, LNR and BT are the majority shareholders and control 60% of the vote,
3) The amount paid for the premier league is also highly dependent on the formation of a new PRL/LNR European Cup. The figure paid this year consists of a significant % of a “Signing on bonus” this applies to the first year only. For each successive year, a similar bonus exists dependent on the PRL having provided BT with a new European Cup. This is also graded according to the number of Tier 1 nations clubs involved, identical to the conditions above. Zero for less than 4, 75% for 5 etc. If PRL are not able to provide a new European Cup their league payments drop to a lower figure than the previous SKY deal.
4) The BT deal applies to all home games in England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland. The percentages offered to Scotland, Wales and Ireland as stated by PRL are correct. They however receive around 50% of the total pot and France receives the remainder. How can this be true? Why is the LNR share smaller than now and Italy have none.
5) The LNR have been offered a share of the pot equal to that of Wales, Scotland and Ireland but have also been given the right to negotiate their own TV deal of which PRL will receive, an equal percentage as the LNR receive from the BT deal. To legitimise this based on TV markets, the Italians are allowed (have to) negotiate their own TV deal.
What would this all mean? Yes the other nations would all make more money than they are now. The PRL clubs will however make substantially more money than the Celts. 50% of BT deal plus 11% of LNR deal compared to just 11% of the BT deal for the Celts. The French stand to make even more from a new deal due to the competition between Canal and a new competitor.
However if a new European Cup does not come about the PRL will receive no European money, even for a French/English league. They will also lose their bonus league payments leaving them worse off financially than they are now. By signing the deal they excluded themselves from taking part in any ERC competition, hence it’s all or nothing for them. The LNR have signed a contract for a new European CUP but it is also conditional on having four Tier one nation members before coming into affect. This provides them with the guarantees but it also means they are not prohibited from re-entering the ERC.
This would explain why the RFU are the only ones who have been shown the Deal, and why they have refused to come out against the clubs. Despite not being in favour of the PRL’s actions they now have no choice but to allow a new European Cup or else most of the premier clubs will be bankrupt in time for the World Cup.
Just as well this is all Hypothetical "
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Re: Premiership Club owners want to take over from the RFU and run international rugby.
by lostinwales Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:04 pm
Lazy probably. I just couldnt think of anything more sensible to add to yet another PRL-as-pantomime-villains-plotting-world-domination-whilst-twiddling-their-moustaches-so-lets-all-leap-on-the-bandwagon-and-slag-them-off threadmaestegmafia wrote:Thats it attack the poster and ignore the topic...!!! How incredibly lazy...lostinwales wrote:[b]maestegmafia[/b] wrote:From an article by Paul Ackford
...
This is something you should be very interested in if you are an English Rugby fan.
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Re: Premiership Club owners want to take over from the RFU and run international rugby.
by Sin é Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:23 pm
Former RFU chief calls for McCafferty to quit
December 2, 2013
Former RFU chairman Martyn Thomas has said it is time for Premiership Rugby's chief executive Mark McCafferty to stand down.
"The practical reality is that McCafferty has led the Premiership into the wilderness," Thomas told the Rugby Paper. "Now he's either got to lead them back from the wilderness, or they've got to find someone else to do it.
"CEOs have to move on, and just as it was right for Francis Baron to move on from the RFU, it's time for Mark to move on. He's been there since 2005, and it probably needs a change of personnel so they can rebuild."
Thomas warned the planned breakaway competition was a doubtful starter when it was first launched and questioned "how could they have misjudged the French position so badly?" adding: "The leadership of Premiership Rugby has got to answer some questions. If they feel ERC and the RFU are dysfunctional, they also stand accused of the same failings."
Thomas then said that McCafferty was guilty of other errors of judgment and that his credibility "was in question even two years ago during the 2011 World Cup when McCafferty and (PRL chairman) Quentin Smith were traipsing around Auckland like Trappist monks in sackcloth and ashes lashing themselves over the conduct of the England players, the vast majority of whom were contracted to Premiership clubs."
http://www.espn.co.uk/england/rugby/story/207845.html
English rugby is very dysfunctional. I love the trappist monks comment.
December 2, 2013
Former RFU chairman Martyn Thomas has said it is time for Premiership Rugby's chief executive Mark McCafferty to stand down.
"The practical reality is that McCafferty has led the Premiership into the wilderness," Thomas told the Rugby Paper. "Now he's either got to lead them back from the wilderness, or they've got to find someone else to do it.
"CEOs have to move on, and just as it was right for Francis Baron to move on from the RFU, it's time for Mark to move on. He's been there since 2005, and it probably needs a change of personnel so they can rebuild."
Thomas warned the planned breakaway competition was a doubtful starter when it was first launched and questioned "how could they have misjudged the French position so badly?" adding: "The leadership of Premiership Rugby has got to answer some questions. If they feel ERC and the RFU are dysfunctional, they also stand accused of the same failings."
Thomas then said that McCafferty was guilty of other errors of judgment and that his credibility "was in question even two years ago during the 2011 World Cup when McCafferty and (PRL chairman) Quentin Smith were traipsing around Auckland like Trappist monks in sackcloth and ashes lashing themselves over the conduct of the England players, the vast majority of whom were contracted to Premiership clubs."
http://www.espn.co.uk/england/rugby/story/207845.html
English rugby is very dysfunctional. I love the trappist monks comment.
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Re: Premiership Club owners want to take over from the RFU and run international rugby.
by HammerofThunor Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:37 pm
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2012/sep/04/rfu-apologises-martyn-thomas
Two key bits
Two key bits
AndThomas was accused in the 53-page report of having "inappropriate contact" with one of the candidates for the role of RFU performance director and of leaking information to the press. But an independent report compiled in November last year by Charles Flint QC concluded there was "no solid evidence" to support misconduct charges against Thomas.
Take from that what you will.But Flint was unable to review all the evidence because 19 of those witnesses, including five directors, refused to allow their evidence to be disclosed.
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Re: Premiership Club owners want to take over from the RFU and run international rugby.
by Luckless Pedestrian Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:12 am
No, those would be Jeudi mind tricks.beshocked wrote:I would say the wool pulling has all come from the French. Jedi mind tricks? Again the French.
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Re: Premiership Club owners want to take over from the RFU and run international rugby.
by quinsforever Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:25 am
Martyn Thomas?!?!?
now there's a man whose ego and addiction to power puts even JP Lux and Camou to shame.
I do not know a single person interested in rugby who is english who pays one whit of attention to the bleatings of this discredited, embittered ex-rfu man. Times have moved on, the RFU is much more progressive and modern and Martyn Thomas is an angry dinosaur who would have no place in the present or future of english rugby.
now there's a man whose ego and addiction to power puts even JP Lux and Camou to shame.
I do not know a single person interested in rugby who is english who pays one whit of attention to the bleatings of this discredited, embittered ex-rfu man. Times have moved on, the RFU is much more progressive and modern and Martyn Thomas is an angry dinosaur who would have no place in the present or future of english rugby.
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Re: Premiership Club owners want to take over from the RFU and run international rugby.
by beshocked Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:45 am
Such arrogance. You probably started watching rugby in 2009 didn't you? Coincidentally the year that Leinster won their first HC and Ireland won their first GS in the 6 nations......Sin é wrote:We'll miss 1 English club - Leicester who have a great Heineken Cup history. The rest just make up the numbers and I'd be quite happy never to see Saracens in the competition again in its present guise.beshocked wrote:Gunsgerms you don't take them seriously yet you seem to comment on them a lot. If you didn't take them seriously you would ignore them. You cannot ignore the PRL. They represent the English clubs. As much as you don't like it the English clubs are important in an European context. There could be a HC without them of course but it will diminish the value significantly.
Make up the numbers....such tripe. I'll be relishing your fall from grace when it happens.
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