You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
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John Bloody Wayne
wheelchair1991
Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn
Seanusarrilius
hampo17
Strongback
mobilemaster8
Mr Bounce
TopHat24/7
Soldier_Of_Fortune
SugarWarrior
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You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
I happened to come across (on Youtube!) the fight between Alfonso Gomez and Arturo Gatti at the weekend. I remember watching the fight at the time and being somewhat saddened by the outcome. I was a fan of Alfonso on The Contender but still didn’t think he deserved to beat a guy like Gatti (even if Gatti was coming towards to the end of his career).
What instances can you think of where a fighter has a win/ opponent on his record that in your opinion he doesn’t really desrve to have?
Another example from me:
Amir Khan Win v Barrera – Barrera a Feather/ Super Featherweight legend, well past his prime blown up to lightweight and Khan had all the advantages and beat him quite well. But really Khan having a HOF guy like Barrera on his record? – not for me.
What examples can you guys come up with?? – Whether it was a lucky win/ gifted decision/ beating a well past his prime opponent/ weight drained opponent etc??
What instances can you think of where a fighter has a win/ opponent on his record that in your opinion he doesn’t really desrve to have?
Another example from me:
Amir Khan Win v Barrera – Barrera a Feather/ Super Featherweight legend, well past his prime blown up to lightweight and Khan had all the advantages and beat him quite well. But really Khan having a HOF guy like Barrera on his record? – not for me.
What examples can you guys come up with?? – Whether it was a lucky win/ gifted decision/ beating a well past his prime opponent/ weight drained opponent etc??
SugarWarrior- Posts : 69
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Soldier_Of_Fortune- Posts : 4420
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Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
Anyone who beat RJJ in the last couple of years.
TopHat24/7- Posts : 17008
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Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
Also McBride (particularly) and Williams over Tyson.
TopHat24/7- Posts : 17008
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Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
Valuev over Commander Vander (or was it "Evan Fields"?)
Mr Bounce- Posts : 3502
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Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
Good calls. Id also say Alvarez vs Mosley.
Also go with Danny Garcia vs Erik Morales and Khan vs Barrera.
In their primes, Khan and Garcia would have been battered.
Also go with Danny Garcia vs Erik Morales and Khan vs Barrera.
In their primes, Khan and Garcia would have been battered.
mobilemaster8- Posts : 4302
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Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
They would have been at different weights so the fights would never have been made. how about them taking on JCC or Pernell instead?mobilemaster8 wrote:In their primes, Khan and Garcia would have been battered.
Mr Bounce- Posts : 3502
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Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
Froch v Kessler 2.
Sad to see the better fighter had faded so much.
It's always better to judge fights when both boxers are near or close to their best.
Sad to see the better fighter had faded so much.
It's always better to judge fights when both boxers are near or close to their best.
Strongback- Posts : 6529
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Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
Can you say a fighter doesn't deserve a win on their record? The guys mentioned are still fighting in some cases so it's not like Khan dragged Barrera out of the OAPs home and stuck some gloves on him, same with Garcia vs Morales, Morales was a world champ in the first fight which says an awful lot.
That said, I was at the Khan vs Barerra fight and it should have been a NC.
That said, I was at the Khan vs Barerra fight and it should have been a NC.
hampo17- Admin
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Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
Nice list and great topic!
Will think of some that irk me.
I don't think Hatton should be on Senchenko's record really. Had Hatton been prime, Senchenko would have been mince meat
Will think of some that irk me.
I don't think Hatton should be on Senchenko's record really. Had Hatton been prime, Senchenko would have been mince meat
Seanusarrilius- Moderator
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Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
Roy Jones JR - Danny Green
James Toney - Jason Gavern
Shane Mosley - Anthony Mundine
James Toney - Jason Gavern
Shane Mosley - Anthony Mundine
hampo17- Admin
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Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
Really?? Head clash and one of the biggest cuts you're likely to see...in the first round!!! It shouldn't have even went into the 2nd round. Funny how it was stopped as soon as they could go to the cards.SugarWarrior wrote:I happened to come across (on Youtube!) the fight between Alfonso Gomez and Arturo Gatti at the weekend. I remember watching the fight at the time and being somewhat saddened by the outcome. I was a fan of Alfonso on The Contender but still didn’t think he deserved to beat a guy like Gatti (even if Gatti was coming towards to the end of his career).
What instances can you think of where a fighter has a win/ opponent on his record that in your opinion he doesn’t really desrve to have?
Another example from me:
Amir Khan Win v Barrera – Barrera a Feather/ Super Featherweight legend, well past his prime blown up to lightweight and Khan had all the advantages and beat him quite well. But really Khan having a HOF guy like Barrera on his record? – not for me.
What examples can you guys come up with?? – Whether it was a lucky win/ gifted decision/ beating a well past his prime opponent/ weight drained opponent etc??
I'm saying that even though I had Khan to win between rounds 4-6 and got the bet up. But that fight was a shambles.
Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
"WHEN YOU BEAT A LEGEND, YOU BECOME ONE!!!!"hampo171 wrote:Roy Jones JR - Danny Green
James Toney - Jason Gavern
Shane Mosley - Anthony Mundine
Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
Berbick v Ali in 1981 (no explanation needed)
Mcbride win over a shell of iron mike in 2005
senchenko v Hatton as in his prime hatton would have smashed him
Derek Chisora V Danny Williams, for this one im not saying chisora would not have beat Williams in his prime but on the record it will show a ko in round 2(I think it was) don't think that fight should have happened
castillio has also been beat recently by some very average fighters
Moseley against Mundine is another example, no way on earth Shane would have lost that in his prime
Mcbride win over a shell of iron mike in 2005
senchenko v Hatton as in his prime hatton would have smashed him
Derek Chisora V Danny Williams, for this one im not saying chisora would not have beat Williams in his prime but on the record it will show a ko in round 2(I think it was) don't think that fight should have happened
castillio has also been beat recently by some very average fighters
Moseley against Mundine is another example, no way on earth Shane would have lost that in his prime
wheelchair1991- Posts : 2129
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Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
I disagree, Hatton always struggled at Welter even before he got mopped up by Manny.Seanusarrilius wrote:Nice list and great topic!
Will think of some that irk me.
I don't think Hatton should be on Senchenko's record really. Had Hatton been prime, Senchenko would have been mince meat
Shenschenko would still have the height and awkwardness for someone like Hatton, so couple with how average Hatton was at welter I reckon it would still be a fight Hatton could have lost.
The only quesiton is, would he have blubbered like a new born baby if he had of lost back then?
Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
Bruno - Bugner
Collins - Benn or Eubank
Oscar - JCC/Sweet Pea
Manny - Oscar
Holmes/Berbick - Ali
Marciano - Louis
Ali - Archie Moore
Jack Johnson - Jim Jeffries
and last but not least.......
Jim Jeffries - Peter Jackson
Collins - Benn or Eubank
Oscar - JCC/Sweet Pea
Manny - Oscar
Holmes/Berbick - Ali
Marciano - Louis
Ali - Archie Moore
Jack Johnson - Jim Jeffries
and last but not least.......
Jim Jeffries - Peter Jackson
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Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
What?? Eubank was unbeaten when Collins first beat him. Why shouldn't that have been allowed to happen?? Agree with Benn by the way.DAVE667 wrote:Bruno - Bugner
Collins - Benn or Eubank
Oscar - JCC/Sweet Pea
Manny - Oscar
Holmes/Berbick - Ali
Marciano - Louis
Ali - Archie Moore
Jack Johnson - Jim Jeffries
and last but not least.......
Jim Jeffries - Peter Jackson
Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
Eubank wasn't the same fighter after Watson and the guy Collins beat was, for me at least, Eubank in name alone. Eubank never finished off opponents with the same spite post-Watson and I think Collins benefitted from Eubank's reluctance to engage.Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:What?? Eubank was unbeaten when Collins first beat him. Why shouldn't that have been allowed to happen?? Agree with Benn by the way.DAVE667 wrote:Bruno - Bugner
Collins - Benn or Eubank
Oscar - JCC/Sweet Pea
Manny - Oscar
Holmes/Berbick - Ali
Marciano - Louis
Ali - Archie Moore
Jack Johnson - Jim Jeffries
and last but not least.......
Jim Jeffries - Peter Jackson
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Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
I dont think that can be held against Collins though. He was facing an undefeated fighter for his world title. I think Calzaghe vs Eubank would be more appropriate
Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
Lebedev v Toney/RJJ
John Bloody Wayne- Posts : 4460
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Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
Rahman vs Lewis
Rahman just got a hail mary in, the rematch showed what Rahman was really about - but Rahman traded off beating Lewis for years after.
Anyone who beat RJJ after Calzaghe, he was no longer the fighter he was after Calzaghe and some might say even Calzaghe doesn't deserve his name because had they fought 2/3 years earlier it would have been very different.
Rahman just got a hail mary in, the rematch showed what Rahman was really about - but Rahman traded off beating Lewis for years after.
Anyone who beat RJJ after Calzaghe, he was no longer the fighter he was after Calzaghe and some might say even Calzaghe doesn't deserve his name because had they fought 2/3 years earlier it would have been very different.
JabMachineMK2- Posts : 2383
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Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
Was JC-RJJ ever really a viable match-up?
TopHat24/7- Posts : 17008
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Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
Jeffries on Johnson's resume shouldn't be shouted out of the history pages for a great win. Jeffries had 6 years out of the ring. You don't just brush off 6 years of pigging out and not training. He was a shell of his former self when he fought Johnson. Not saying he would have beaten Johnson in his prime, but if this fight were taking place today, boxing fans would be screaming about what a joke it was. Other than as a testament to racial implications this fight means nothing as far as boxing history. Even Tyson v Holmes was more legitimate .
Cheers Rodders
Cheers Rodders
Rodney- Posts : 1974
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Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
The first person to beat Floyd will not deserve his name on their record.....36 years old, brittle hands etc.
Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
What do you mean EVEN Tyson-Holmes was more legitimate.......
Holmes is a good win for Tyson..........
Stop taking cheap pops at modern fighters..
Holmes is a good win for Tyson..........
Stop taking cheap pops at modern fighters..
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40687
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Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
Whilst rushing to pay £15 for PPV as a "legend" was making his ring retunRodney wrote:Jeffries on Johnson's resume shouldn't be shouted out of the history pages for a great win. Jeffries had 6 years out of the ring. You don't just brush off 6 years of pigging out and not training. He was a shell of his former self when he fought Johnson. Not saying he would have beaten Johnson in his prime, but if this fight were taking place today, boxing fans would be screaming about what a joke it was. Other than as a testament to racial implications this fight means nothing as far as boxing history. Even Tyson v Holmes was more legitimate .
Cheers Rodders
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Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
It wasn't a pop it was a relevant comment. I forgot you hold the Marciano fight against Louis maybe you don't give old faded fighters a pass, but I do.
Cheers Rodders
Cheers Rodders
Rodney- Posts : 1974
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Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
I don't care, write my name in the sky with a 100 mile high fet tip pen.Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:The first person to beat Floyd will not deserve his name on their record.....36 years old, brittle hands etc.
I smacked Floyd Mayweather in the teeth and he got on his knees and begged me to do it again....biyyyatch!!
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Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
Don't hold it against Louis.......Point out that he lost to his best opponents which is true.......Rodney wrote:It wasn't a pop it was a relevant comment. I forgot you hold the Marciano fight against Louis maybe you don't give old faded fighters a pass, but I do.
Cheers Rodders
But smokescreen away...........You do pick on modern fighters........."Mayweather isn't great"..........Be honest Jeffries is higher on your list Isn't he ??
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40687
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Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
But it isn't a point is it ? Do you say the same about Tyson ?
We're not going down the old Mayweather and lists route again are we ? Cheers Rodders
We're not going down the old Mayweather and lists route again are we ? Cheers Rodders
Rodney- Posts : 1974
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Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
I don't have Tyson top 10...........
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40687
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Rodney- Posts : 1974
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Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
I rate his oposition accordingly to his position......Louis best opponents beat him...Past it or not.........
Tony Tubbs plays with Schmelling..........
Look I appreciate your stuff.........But this down-rating of modern fighters.........Like old Grandad resenting the present just seems silly.........
Fitz does make Jones jr look like a bum.........But only in dreams..
Tony Tubbs plays with Schmelling..........
Look I appreciate your stuff.........But this down-rating of modern fighters.........Like old Grandad resenting the present just seems silly.........
Fitz does make Jones jr look like a bum.........But only in dreams..
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40687
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Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
Truss when I rate fighters I tend to look past head to head, you know your boxing well enough when hypothetically putting Jones Jnr in with Fitz doesn't work , whose rules are we using for starters ?
Fitzsimmons achievements standout as exceptional that's why he ranks so highly in my lists , if you can't see past that fair enough, share a conversation with Azania. If we're saying Louis best opponents beat him then I presume you'd say the same about Tyson.
Ps Schmeling drills the bejesus out of the lazy Tony Tubbs
Cheers Rodders
Fitzsimmons achievements standout as exceptional that's why he ranks so highly in my lists , if you can't see past that fair enough, share a conversation with Azania. If we're saying Louis best opponents beat him then I presume you'd say the same about Tyson.
Ps Schmeling drills the bejesus out of the lazy Tony Tubbs
Cheers Rodders
Rodney- Posts : 1974
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Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
You do realise, Rodders, that Tubbs had the fastest hands of any HW.
An unofficial record was set at an experimental all-you-can-eat buffet at KFC (shortly before KFC recorded it's biggest ever financial loss)
An unofficial record was set at an experimental all-you-can-eat buffet at KFC (shortly before KFC recorded it's biggest ever financial loss)
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Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
Rodders might realise it.........But you'd have to have seen him fight.........DAVE667 wrote:You do realise, Rodders, that Tubbs had the fastest hands of any HW.
An unofficial record was set at an experimental all-you-can-eat buffet at KFC (shortly before KFC recorded it's biggest ever financial loss)
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40687
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Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
When he applied himself...sadly the argument that he beats Schmeling is a spurious one as the likelihood of an "in-shape" motivated Tubbs turning up on fight night seems but a pipe dream.
Still, that's the beauty of opinion and conjecture. You think Tubbs beats Max, Rodders thinks Max whips that right hand over the top enough times to discourage Tony and eventually drop him.
Me? I don't care enough.
Still, that's the beauty of opinion and conjecture. You think Tubbs beats Max, Rodders thinks Max whips that right hand over the top enough times to discourage Tony and eventually drop him.
Me? I don't care enough.
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Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
Norris v Leonard, Ray was well past his best, easy win for Leonard anywhere near his best.
Calzaghe v RJJ a well past it Jones puts Calzaghe down, Jones closes the show at his best.
Berbick v Ali,prime Ali makes him look like a poor sparring partner.
Pender v Robinson, Robinson anywhere near his best kills him.
Calzaghe v RJJ a well past it Jones puts Calzaghe down, Jones closes the show at his best.
Berbick v Ali,prime Ali makes him look like a poor sparring partner.
Pender v Robinson, Robinson anywhere near his best kills him.
Nico the gman- Posts : 1753
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Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
An out of shape Tubbs went 15 rounds and lost a split to Tim witherspoon...at a good pace..DAVE667 wrote:When he applied himself...sadly the argument that he beats Schmeling is a spurious one as the likelihood of an "in-shape" motivated Tubbs turning up on fight night seems but a pipe dream.
Still, that's the beauty of opinion and conjecture. You think Tubbs beats Max, Rodders thinks Max whips that right hand over the top enough times to discourage Tony and eventually drop him.
Me? I don't care enough.
He'd be quicker, bigger and rap harder than schmelling......who was a small heavy..
You haven't seen him fight admit it.
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40687
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Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
What shape was he in when getting pancaked in 1 by Butler (a much smaller heavy)?? [just watched in on YT]
TopHat24/7- Posts : 17008
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Re: You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!
You're absolutely right...42 years old with no terrestrial tv back in the day or computer access these days. How could I possibly have? And Tim was hardly the poster boy for application was he? Still I forgot that Max was going to just stand there and let Tony have free shots all night long.TRUSSMAN66 wrote:An out of shape Tubbs went 15 rounds and lost a split to Tim witherspoon...at a good pace..DAVE667 wrote:When he applied himself...sadly the argument that he beats Schmeling is a spurious one as the likelihood of an "in-shape" motivated Tubbs turning up on fight night seems but a pipe dream.
Still, that's the beauty of opinion and conjecture. You think Tubbs beats Max, Rodders thinks Max whips that right hand over the top enough times to discourage Tony and eventually drop him.
Me? I don't care enough.
He'd be quicker, bigger and rap harder than schmelling......who was a small heavy..
You haven't seen him fight admit it.
Anyway, home time....play nicely fellas!
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