New European Rugby cup (or whatever it is called) - Qualification agreed

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:

Sin é wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:

Sin é wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:

broadlandboy wrote:I don't think any one is argueing that the HEC is not a great comp, some are saying that it is not be all & end all & there is more to rugby.
PRL/BT have not stated the amount for Aviva & Europe separately as this would give information to Sky. However PRL have stated that PRL clubs will be better off with just the Aviva under the BT deal than they are now with the present combined Aviva/Europe.
The BT deal is for Aviva with an agreement that BT will have PRL's rights in any European comp.

It sounds like they have. The quote from Sin e suggests the BT part is worth about 20-odd million per year. Assuming he's talking in Euros and that 20-odd is about 20 (certainly reads that way). Over three years so thats 60 million. So that's about £50MM. Assuming that's top amount and therefore releases the whole "up to" £152M it means there is between £102M for the Premiership over four years. So thats £25M per year. Previous Sky/ESPN deal was for around £54M for 3 years, or about £18M per year. So that's an extra £7M a year for the Premeirship.

About

Thats working out ok so for the AP clubs. They now have a little over £2m for tv rights this year. Last year they got £1.9m (between AP & ERC).

Down guarantee of 3 home sell-out games (plus corporate entertainment ect).

They weren't sell outs. Even Tigers didn't sell out all the ERC games. But they can replace it with an English cup. Won't make as much but will probably make enough. Would be great if the Championship sides got involved and got an equal share (per team).

I wouldn't expect Tigers to sell out as they have a fairly big stadium, but clubs like Exeter were selling out (average 10k for HCup). Average about 7K for Aviva Premiership last year.

No HC sell-outs at Sandy Park last year (not even for Leinster), and the AP average was a little higher.

geoff998rugby wrote:Provided there is a play off I would have no issue.

Of course that does mean a team like Georgia or Rumania could catch say Wales or Ireland on an off day and that team would not be in the 6N the following year.

If it was France or England would not go down not well with tournament sponsors or TV broadcasters. Might result in reduced income.

For record the 6N wooden spooners have been:

Italy 8
Scotland 3
France 1
Wales 1

quinsforever wrote:

Sin é wrote:

quinsforever wrote:comedy - PRL haven't said anything rude about SRU and FIR. As opposed to the rabo league which gives zippo zilch money to either...this entire HC debate is irish deluded posters vs sensible people. the beneficiaries vs everyone else.

The PRL threatened them with financial ruin if they didn't join the McGaff Cup. They also said some nasty stuff about Scottish & Italian teams about how they didn't deserve to play in the Heineken Cup. Even the usually nice Mr O'Shea was banging on about that one.

complete nonsense. PRL people highlighted the financial impact of no european club rugby at all for several unions, a fact incontrovertibly confirmed by people within all of those unions over the last few months.

.

geoff998rugby wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

Sin é wrote:

quinsforever wrote:comedy - PRL haven't said anything rude about SRU and FIR. As opposed to the rabo league which gives zippo zilch money to either...this entire HC debate is irish deluded posters vs sensible people. the beneficiaries vs everyone else.

The PRL threatened them with financial ruin if they didn't join the McGaff Cup. They also said some nasty stuff about Scottish & Italian teams about how they didn't deserve to play in the Heineken Cup. Even the usually nice Mr O'Shea was banging on about that one.

complete nonsense. PRL people highlighted the financial impact of no european club rugby at all for several unions, a fact incontrovertibly confirmed by people within all of those unions over the last few months.

.

From what little that has been made public the PRL will be ok for a year as the money from BT is greater than Sky for the Aviva and will make up the shortfall of no HC. However it does appear that the BT money involves some 'signing up' bonus which does not extend into a second year such that overall the PRL will be worse off if there is no European competition.

From what little has been made public the Pro12 wil lbe ok as the HC money will only be reduced by the English portion i.e. stay as is for the rest, there will be some Sky TV money and a new sponsor is lined up giving more than Rabo (dependant on Wales competing I believe).
However there is no guarantee Sky will continue to pay as much for the HC without English involvement.

What I am trying to say is there is reasonable grounds for assuming everyone is ok in the short term but long term things don't look so good for all (except perhaps for the French who appear to be on the verge on a mega TV deal).

If BT stick to their Aviva deal and do not compromise on the European element it may well mean no English in a European Cup - that is bad news for both English and Pro 12 teams.
The biggest worry of all is the French no longer need European rugby

It is in both England and Pro12 countries interest in reaching an agreement for 2015-16.
The keys here are BT compromising and Welsh clubs not rocking the boat.
If we delay then the French may just sail into the sunset and leave us all behind.

Sin é wrote:Surely Sky can't dictate who competes? (as in England). They have bought the broadcasting rights to the UK (which includes England). There are going to be fewer games anyway (with the reduction to 20 teams, so less broadcasting times).

I don't think BT's money will cover the loss of the gate on home games for teams like Leicester & Northampton (teams with big stadia or those that move to a bigger stadium).

Munster's game v. Perpignam this weekend will bring in about euro1.2m alone from ticket sales in its 26k stadium. Even with a stadium with 1/3 that capacity would lose out big time on ticket sales (about 400K). Over 3 games, that is about 1.2M for the year. For Leicester, its about 3M.

Sin é wrote:
Surely Sky can't dictate who competes? (as in England). They have bought the broadcasting rights to the UK (which includes England). There are going to be fewer games anyway (with the reduction to 20 teams, so less broadcasting times).

I don't think BT's money will cover the loss of the gate on home games for teams like Leicester & Northampton (teams with big stadia or those that move to a bigger stadium).

Munster's game v. Perpignam this weekend will bring in about euro1.2m alone from ticket sales in its 26k stadium. Even with a stadium with 1/3 that capacity would lose out big time on ticket sales (about 400K). Over 3 games, that is about 1.2M for the year. For Leicester, its about 3M.

geoff998rugby wrote:Not saying Sky are dictating but they would appear to have some sort of get clauses if certain countries don't compete.

To be honest it would be pretty stupid if they didn't.

I suspect we will see a considerably more competitive/high profile LV cup

Big wrote:

Sin é wrote:
Surely Sky can't dictate who competes? (as in England). They have bought the broadcasting rights to the UK (which includes England). There are going to be fewer games anyway (with the reduction to 20 teams, so less broadcasting times).

I don't think BT's money will cover the loss of the gate on home games for teams like Leicester & Northampton (teams with big stadia or those that move to a bigger stadium).

Munster's game v. Perpignam this weekend will bring in about euro1.2m alone from ticket sales in its 26k stadium. Even with a stadium with 1/3 that capacity would lose out big time on ticket sales (about 400K). Over 3 games, that is about 1.2M for the year. For Leicester, its about 3M.

It depends what if anything Leicester were to do instead, and why not an aviva cup?  I don't know about the other clubs but Leicester get higher average gates for domestic games than they do for European games - so a domestic cup (sort of thing that could easily be done as a temporary fix) or an expanded premiership (if they expect to be out long term) could generate similar or higher ticket sales.  Plus with an Aviva Cup there'd be more TV rights to sell.  No one could stop them either - not being cross border IRB have no say and RFU have given PRL control over TV rights for the duration of the EPS agreement so fine for 2014/15.

HammerofThunor wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

quinsforever wrote:munchkin, by hegemony i mean preserving the 6N NH world order and keeping everyone else out. nothing to do with unions. all to do with fear and greed.

Fear and greed? What other European Union could enter 6N, and seriously challenge any of the 6? You would need to explain how greed comes into it, but what other European Union could afford to enter 6Ns? Say 6Ns becomes 8 Nations? What would be the knock-on effect to clubs who already complain about the number of internationals as it is? Maybe a 2 tier competition, but that wouldn't be without problems either.
Which Unions have asked for entry, but have been denied, and why?

Could afford to enter the 6 Nations? Would we just split the money with them? Are you suggesting the 6 Nations isn't a massive money-maker? How long did it take France to win anything? How long did it take Italy to beat anyone other than Scotland and Wales? It's more about exposure and opening the system.

I think the 'reasonable' proposal would be to have the 6 Nations aligned with the European Nations Cup, or whatever it is called. Moved to a two season competition and the bottom of the 6 nations (after two years) is switched for the top of the tier below.

quinsforever wrote:

Big wrote:

Sin é wrote:
Surely Sky can't dictate who competes? (as in England). They have bought the broadcasting rights to the UK (which includes England). There are going to be fewer games anyway (with the reduction to 20 teams, so less broadcasting times).

I don't think BT's money will cover the loss of the gate on home games for teams like Leicester & Northampton (teams with big stadia or those that move to a bigger stadium).

Munster's game v. Perpignam this weekend will bring in about euro1.2m alone from ticket sales in its 26k stadium. Even with a stadium with 1/3 that capacity would lose out big time on ticket sales (about 400K). Over 3 games, that is about 1.2M for the year. For Leicester, its about 3M.

It depends what if anything Leicester were to do instead, and why not an aviva cup?  I don't know about the other clubs but Leicester get higher average gates for domestic games than they do for European games - so a domestic cup (sort of thing that could easily be done as a temporary fix) or an expanded premiership (if they expect to be out long term) could generate similar or higher ticket sales.  Plus with an Aviva Cup there'd be more TV rights to sell.  No one could stop them either - not being cross border IRB have no say and RFU have given PRL control over TV rights for the duration of the EPS agreement so fine for 2014/15.

i'm all for an AP with the 4 welsh regions in once they get out of their rabo participation agreement. would be win-win for AP and the welsh clubs.

Big wrote:

Sin é wrote:
Surely Sky can't dictate who competes? (as in England). They have bought the broadcasting rights to the UK (which includes England). There are going to be fewer games anyway (with the reduction to 20 teams, so less broadcasting times).

I don't think BT's money will cover the loss of the gate on home games for teams like Leicester & Northampton (teams with big stadia or those that move to a bigger stadium).

Munster's game v. Perpignam this weekend will bring in about euro1.2m alone from ticket sales in its 26k stadium. Even with a stadium with 1/3 that capacity would lose out big time on ticket sales (about 400K). Over 3 games, that is about 1.2M for the year. For Leicester, its about 3M.

It depends what if anything Leicester were to do instead, and why not an aviva cup?  I don't know about the other clubs but Leicester get higher average gates for domestic games than they do for European games - so a domestic cup (sort of thing that could easily be done as a temporary fix) or an expanded premiership (if they expect to be out long term) could generate similar or higher ticket sales.  Plus with an Aviva Cup there'd be more TV rights to sell.  No one could stop them either - not being cross border IRB have no say and RFU have given PRL control over TV rights for the duration of the EPS agreement so fine for 2014/15.

geoff998rugby wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

Big wrote:

Sin é wrote:
Surely Sky can't dictate who competes? (as in England). They have bought the broadcasting rights to the UK (which includes England). There are going to be fewer games anyway (with the reduction to 20 teams, so less broadcasting times).

I don't think BT's money will cover the loss of the gate on home games for teams like Leicester & Northampton (teams with big stadia or those that move to a bigger stadium).

Munster's game v. Perpignam this weekend will bring in about euro1.2m alone from ticket sales in its 26k stadium. Even with a stadium with 1/3 that capacity would lose out big time on ticket sales (about 400K). Over 3 games, that is about 1.2M for the year. For Leicester, its about 3M.

It depends what if anything Leicester were to do instead, and why not an aviva cup?  I don't know about the other clubs but Leicester get higher average gates for domestic games than they do for European games - so a domestic cup (sort of thing that could easily be done as a temporary fix) or an expanded premiership (if they expect to be out long term) could generate similar or higher ticket sales.  Plus with an Aviva Cup there'd be more TV rights to sell.  No one could stop them either - not being cross border IRB have no say and RFU have given PRL control over TV rights for the duration of the EPS agreement so fine for 2014/15.

i'm all for an AP with the 4 welsh regions in once they get out of their rabo participation agreement. would be win-win for AP and the welsh clubs.

Both the IRB and the WRU have said they would block such a move. NOPE, WRONG. NO-ONE HAS SAID ANYTHING ABOUT AN EXPANDED AP.
In addition the Welsh regions have not given notice to quite the HC or the Pro12 and would be liable if they do. WRU IS THE SIGNATORY TO RABO AND HC AND CAN PUT WHATEVER TEAMS IT WANTS INTO THE COMPETITION.
Welsh in the Aviva remains a pipedream. A DREAM FOR THE WELSH AND ENGLISH, A NIGHTMARE FOR SOME OTHERS.

The English will not increas the PRL unless a European competition is dead and buried.
For all the acromony we are far from that. BUT ITS CERTAINLY NOT INCONCEIVABLE. AND IF THE RFU AND PRL GET TOO ISOLATED, DONT BE SURPRISED IF THEY TURN TO THE WRU AND WELSH REGIONS.
As I mentioend above if it goes there will be only one winner - the French.  NOT SO SURE ABOUT THAT. ANGLO WELSH LEAGUE WOULD BE AWESOME. AND VERY COMMERCIALLY ATTRACTIVE.

quinsforever wrote:summary:

final draft of FFR-LNR agreement being worked on from 5pm. Three points to agree still: H-Cup, choice of administrative base of ERC, availability of players for French XV.

Still disputing - date of top14 final in 2015

The agreement needs to be signed by Friday 6th dec. No joint announcement by FFR and Goze however until 20th Dec, when the general assemblies of each validate the agreement.

Sin é wrote:Leicester have a high number of season ticket holders though, don't they?

Are the Heineken Cup games included in the season ticket, by the way?

The worst European game attendance was 19K against Aironi.
Ospreys 20K, Toulouse 24K, Ulster 21K, Clermont 20K.

Similar to the AV (with Northampton & Quins bringing in 24K, otherwise average about 21K).

By the way, the novelty will wear off if you play a team 3 times a year.

Sin é wrote:

quinsforever wrote:summary:

final draft of FFR-LNR agreement being worked on from 5pm. Three points to agree still: H-Cup, choice of administrative base of ERC, availability of players for French XV.

Still disputing - date of top14 final in 2015

The agreement needs to be signed by Friday 6th dec. No joint announcement by FFR and Goze however until 20th Dec, when the general assemblies of each validate the agreement.

So the French clubs see the ERC as continuing to administer the Heineken Cup if they want the choice of administrative base?

How can the administrative base of the ERC be up for discussion between the FFR & LNR? (Other than we'll talk to the other union).

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Ah lads. Are yiz still at this shyte? Will someone start a new thread when this one gets full?

How many is that in total in the last 18 months? If you stacked the letters in each thread up vertically would you reach the moon?

quinsforever wrote:Both the IRB and the WRU have said they would block such a move. NOPE, WRONG. NO-ONE HAS SAID ANYTHING ABOUT AN EXPANDED AP.
In addition the Welsh regions have not given notice to quite the HC or the Pro12 and would be liable if they do. WRU IS THE SIGNATORY TO RABO AND HC AND CAN PUT WHATEVER TEAMS IT WANTS INTO THE COMPETITION.
Welsh in the Aviva remains a pipedream. A DREAM FOR THE WELSH AND ENGLISH, A NIGHTMARE FOR SOME OTHERS.

The English will not increas the PRL unless a European competition is dead and buried.
For all the acromony we are far from that. BUT ITS CERTAINLY NOT INCONCEIVABLE. AND IF THE RFU AND PRL GET TOO ISOLATED, DONT BE SURPRISED IF THEY TURN TO THE WRU AND WELSH REGIONS.
As I mentioend above if it goes there will be only one winner - the French.  NOT SO SURE ABOUT THAT. ANGLO WELSH LEAGUE WOULD BE AWESOME. AND VERY COMMERCIALLY ATTRACTIVE.

mystiroakey wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=najMxMa6RaA

Sin é wrote:

quinsforever wrote:Both the IRB and the WRU have said they would block such a move. NOPE, WRONG. NO-ONE HAS SAID ANYTHING ABOUT AN EXPANDED AP.
In addition the Welsh regions have not given notice to quite the HC or the Pro12 and would be liable if they do. WRU IS THE SIGNATORY TO RABO AND HC AND CAN PUT WHATEVER TEAMS IT WANTS INTO THE COMPETITION.
Welsh in the Aviva remains a pipedream. A DREAM FOR THE WELSH AND ENGLISH, A NIGHTMARE FOR SOME OTHERS.

The English will not increas the PRL unless a European competition is dead and buried.
For all the acromony we are far from that. BUT ITS CERTAINLY NOT INCONCEIVABLE. AND IF THE RFU AND PRL GET TOO ISOLATED, DONT BE SURPRISED IF THEY TURN TO THE WRU AND WELSH REGIONS.
As I mentioend above if it goes there will be only one winner - the French.  NOT SO SURE ABOUT THAT. ANGLO WELSH LEAGUE WOULD BE AWESOME. AND VERY COMMERCIALLY ATTRACTIVE.

1. If the RFU and PRL get too isolated from the IRB / Other Unions, they wont be playing Rugby Union. H-CUP IS NOT THE IRB. IRB MADE THAT CLEAR WHEN THEY SAID ERC IS NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE - SEE LAPASSETS COMMENTS YDAY.

2. You'd think that a Welsh / English comp. would do well, but it won't. The reason is that the Welsh & the English don't really like each other that much and don't enjoy each other's company. You can see a lot of the agro on this message board. THAT IS NOT TRUE. OF ALL THE HOME NATIONS THE WELSH GET ALONG BEST WITH THE ENGLISH - SEE ONLY 10% WOULD BE INTERESTED IN FOLLOWING SCOTLAND INTO INDEPENDENCE. BUT THE RUGBY RIVALRY IS VERY VERY INTENSE AND THIS IS WHY IT WOULD BE A GREAT GREAT ADDITION TO THE AP CALENDAR. THIS MESSAGE BOARD IS NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF ANYTHING I HOPE.

All you have to do is look at the attendances of Heineken Cup games between the Welsh/English clubs to see that. (Example, Exeter v Scarlets 9,250
Scartets v Exeter: 7,512
Scarlets v Leinster: 9,555
Exeter v Leinster: 10,198

THIS IS THE KIND OF SELECTIVE NONSENSE I WAS REFERRING TO ABOVE. YOU COMPARE EXETER AND LEINSTER AS H-CUP OPPONENTS IN TERMS OF ATTRACTING SCARLETS FANS TO WATCH? 3 TIME WINNERS WITH 2ND YEAR EVER IN THE COMPETITION?

Similarly Leicester v Ospreys had less than Ulster & Toulouse at the game and it was only a few hours down the motorway for them. MATE, THE MEANINGFUL COMPARISON IS LEAGUE VS LEAGUE. AND WELSH AVG ATTENDANCES IN THE RABO ARE WOEFUL.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=najMxMa6RaA

I'd say that one captures yiz better lads.  

geoff998rugby wrote:quinsforever it strike you are very selective in what you read and what you choose to rememeber.

The IRB have made it clear they will block a cross Union competition if it is to the detriment of existing competitions. NO, THEY SPECIFICALLY SAID THEY WILL ENDORSE A CROSS BORDER COMPETITION IF IT IS SUPPORTED BY THE RESPECTIVE UNIONS. IRB DOESNT WANT TO GET INVOLVED IN SAYING WHO SHOULD BE IN WHICH TOURNAMENTS. JUST WANTS TO MAKE SURE UNIONS ARE AT THE TOP OF EACH NATION'S GAME.
The WRU have made it quite clear they do not want an expanded Aviva. NOPE. HAVENT MADE THAT CLEAR AT ALL. FIND ME ONE LINK, A SINGLE LINK MAKING THIS CLEAR.

If you think an anglo-Welsh tournament can close to matching the French financial arrangements you obviously are not aware of the figures being talked about for French TV. The BT deal palls into insiginificance without European. SO WHAT? FRENCH RUGBY IS ALREADY THE 800LB GORILLA. AND THEY'RE GETTING BIGGER, YES I AGREE. DOESNT MEAN THAT THE AP WOULDNT BE BETTER FOR PRL CLUBS AND RRW TEAMS TOGETHER.

That is why a European deal is key for both England the Pro12 - otherwise the French will suck all of us dry.
We may be first but you will follow I UNDERSTAND YOUR FEAR, BUT JUST DONT SEE IT AS SUCH A THREAT. WHO CARES IF THEY PAY TOP DOLLAR. PLAYERS HAVE A RIGHT TO PLY THEIR TRADE WHEREVER THEY WANT. SOUTH AFRICAN STARTING PLAYERS ARE ALL OVER THE WORLD. YET THE SA TEAM ARE DOING JUST FINE. AND IF THE FRENCH TEAMS DOMINATE H-CUP, WELL DONE THEM. I LOVE SEEING THESE STAR-STUDDED FRENCH TEAMS.

I believe yo uare wrong regarding the requirment of Welsh teams and serving notice to the Pro12. NOPE. WELSH REGIONS ARE NOT SIGNED UP TO RABO OR H-CUP. THEY ARE NOMINATED BY WRU WHO ARE REQUIRED TO PROVIDE TEAMS. THAT'S WHY ALL THE MONEY GOES THROUGH THE WRU COFFERS AND NOT A SINGLE PENNY DIRECTLY TO THE REGIONS.


On the French negotiations it was widely reported last week that the clubs have signed a contract committing themselves to the HC next year. THEY HAVENT SIGNED ANYTHING. WHAT THEY SIGN WILL BE PART OF THIS "CONVENTION". What I suspect is under discussion is the nature of qualfication. splitting money between clubs and the like not participation itself. As to discussion how ERC administered I suspect this is much to do with the length of any agreement and the split of shares between FFR and LNR

The French teams want the, very lucrative, TV deal wrapped up before they commit to the coming years regarding the league

Sin é wrote:Leicester have a high number of season ticket holders though, don't they?

Are the Heineken Cup games included in the season ticket, by the way?

The worst European game attendance was 19K against Aironi.
Ospreys 20K, Toulouse 24K, Ulster 21K, Clermont 20K.

Similar to the AV (with Northampton & Quins bringing in 24K, otherwise average about 21K).

By the way, the novelty will wear off if you play a team 3 times a year.

Munster fury at Leicester’s insulting ticket allocation
Wednesday, January 29, 2003

By Charlie Mulqueen
A CYNICAL ploy by Leicester Tigers has threatened to cause a major row ahead of the Heineken European Cup quarter-final against Munster on April 13.

Leicester yesterday held what they described as their "normal monthly board meeting" after which chairman, Peter Tom, issued the following statement: "We can confirm that the Heineken Cup quarter-final between Leicester Tigers and Munster will take place at Welford Road on Sunday, April 13 at 4 pm. Our season ticket holders and members have until February 21 to apply for their tickets and they will be guaranteed priority until this deadline.

"Munster will receive an initial allocation of 1,000 tickets and we will review the situation as the requirements of our members and European Rugby Cup Ltd become clear. Any remaining tickets will go on general sale at the beginning of March."

Not surprisingly, Munster have reacted quickly and angrily to this announcement. The rules of the competition state that the visiting team is entitled to 25% of the tickets available and already chief executive Garrett Fitzgerald has written to Leicester pointing out this fact and seeking clarification of yesterday’s statement.

How Leicester could possibly believe that Munster would settle for 1, 000 tickets bearing in mind that their chief executive Peter Wheeler is on record for stating that they "could fill Twickenham for this fixture" is beyond belief. In other words, he acknowledges the unique and widespread support for the Munster team and for his club to now offer them an "initial" thousand tickets is hardly designed to improve relations between the parties.

Not surprisingly, ERC are well aware of the explosive potential of yesterday’s release and confirmed last night that they, too, have been in contact with Leicester.

"We are seeking clarification with respect to the allocation of

1,000 tickets to Munster and to the agreement that 25% should go to the visiting team", said ERC official Diarmuid Murphy.

Leicester’s decision to stage the match at their own Welford Road ground, which has a capacity of 16, 807, is perfectly understandable although they did have the alternative of a switch to the new Leicester City’s Walkers Stadium.

"To say I am disappointed at this news is putting it mildly", said Munster manager Jerry Holland last night. "Many of our supporters have already pre-booked their flights and other means of transport. If this is allowed, it will be a terrible blow to everybody. This move is effectively going to stop them getting to the match and ERC must see to it that they receive their rightful allocation".

Interestingly, the gate receipts for the game are split equally.

ERC can confirm that Leicester Tigers, in keeping with the Heineken Cup participation agreement, have guaranteed to supply Munster with 4,000 tickets for the Heineken Cup quarter-final match which takes place at Welford Road at 4.00pm on Sunday, 13 April.? (Statement ends).

quinsforever wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:quinsforever it strike you are very selective in what you read and what you choose to rememeber.

The IRB have made it clear they will block a cross Union competition if it is to the detriment of existing competitions. NO, THEY SPECIFICALLY SAID THEY WILL ENDORSE A CROSS BORDER COMPETITION IF IT IS SUPPORTED BY THE RESPECTIVE UNIONS. IRB DOESNT WANT TO GET INVOLVED IN SAYING WHO SHOULD BE IN WHICH TOURNAMENTS. JUST WANTS TO MAKE SURE UNIONS ARE AT THE TOP OF EACH NATION'S GAME.
The WRU have made it quite clear they do not want an expanded Aviva. NOPE. HAVENT MADE THAT CLEAR AT ALL. FIND ME ONE LINK, A SINGLE LINK MAKING THIS CLEAR.

If you think an anglo-Welsh tournament can close to matching the French financial arrangements you obviously are not aware of the figures being talked about for French TV. The BT deal palls into insiginificance without European. SO WHAT? FRENCH RUGBY IS ALREADY THE 800LB GORILLA. AND THEY'RE GETTING BIGGER, YES I AGREE. DOESNT MEAN THAT THE AP WOULDNT BE BETTER FOR PRL CLUBS AND RRW TEAMS TOGETHER.

That is why a European deal is key for both England the Pro12 - otherwise the French will suck all of us dry.
We may be first but you will follow I UNDERSTAND YOUR FEAR, BUT JUST DONT SEE IT AS SUCH A THREAT. WHO CARES IF THEY PAY TOP DOLLAR. PLAYERS HAVE A RIGHT TO PLY THEIR TRADE WHEREVER THEY WANT. SOUTH AFRICAN STARTING PLAYERS ARE ALL OVER THE WORLD. YET THE SA TEAM ARE DOING JUST FINE. AND IF THE FRENCH TEAMS DOMINATE H-CUP, WELL DONE THEM. I LOVE SEEING THESE STAR-STUDDED FRENCH TEAMS.

I believe yo uare wrong regarding the requirment of Welsh teams and serving notice to the Pro12. NOPE. WELSH REGIONS ARE NOT SIGNED UP TO RABO OR H-CUP. THEY ARE NOMINATED BY WRU WHO ARE REQUIRED TO PROVIDE TEAMS. THAT'S WHY ALL THE MONEY GOES THROUGH THE WRU COFFERS AND NOT A SINGLE PENNY DIRECTLY TO THE REGIONS.


On the French negotiations it was widely reported last week that the clubs have signed a contract committing themselves to the HC next year. THEY HAVENT SIGNED ANYTHING. WHAT THEY SIGN WILL BE PART OF THIS "CONVENTION". What I suspect is under discussion is the nature of qualfication. splitting money between clubs and the like not participation itself. As to discussion how ERC administered I suspect this is much to do with the length of any agreement and the split of shares between FFR and LNR

The French teams want the, very lucrative, TV deal wrapped up before they commit to the coming years regarding the league

Big wrote:

Sin é wrote:Leicester have a high number of season ticket holders though, don't they?

Are the Heineken Cup games included in the season ticket, by the way?

The worst European game attendance was 19K against Aironi.
Ospreys 20K, Toulouse 24K, Ulster 21K, Clermont 20K.

Similar to the AV (with Northampton & Quins bringing in 24K, otherwise average about 21K).

By the way, the novelty will wear off if you play a team 3 times a year.

Leicester do have a lot of season ticket holders, but they cover all home games so no difference there.  I think the main reason is you get more travelling support for domestic games - for obvious reasons it's easier for fans travelling from within England, than those that need to sort flights, hotels et.  It's not a massive difference typically 5-10% comparing group stages to league games, but still means more money for the club.

Knockout stages in Europe are good, but frankly getting there isn't something any team can count on in their financial planning - just a nice bonus as/when you do.

There are plenty of occasions where we play a team 3 times (or more) Saints last year, and back in 2004/5 I think we played Wasps 5 times.  There may not have been a lot of novelty - but there were fantastic rugby matches with good attendances and nobody bored (even if the 2005 final was painful viewing for us Tigers fans).

mystiroakey wrote:Shame they are tied..

They will get out at some point though

Intotouch wrote:The French regularly bitch about the ERC being in Dublin. At least in the articles I read in the French papers. It will be moved and will be given a different name but I'd be surprised if much else changes.

mystiroakey wrote:Shame they are tied..

They will get out at some point though

mystiroakey wrote:Shame they are tied..

They will get out at some point though

Munchkin wrote:Stuart Gallacher
Regional Rugby Wales chairman:


"And the four Welsh regions are themselves tied into agreements to play in the Pro12 alongside teams from Ireland, Scotland and Italy."


BBC Sports. 28/03/2013


As far as Gallacher is concerned, the 4 Welsh regions are tied to the Rabo.

Irish Londoner wrote:

Intotouch wrote:The French regularly bitch about the ERC being in Dublin. At least in the articles I read in the French papers. It will be moved and will be given a different name but I'd be surprised if much else changes.

Isn't the main reason that ERC is based in Dublin something to do with the tax arrangements that apply in Ireland, if they moved ERC or "son of ERC" would there be a big tax hit - particularly in Hollande's France?

Irish Londoner wrote:

Intotouch wrote:The French regularly bitch about the ERC being in Dublin. At least in the articles I read in the French papers. It will be moved and will be given a different name but I'd be surprised if much else changes.

Isn't the main reason that ERC is based in Dublin something to do with the tax arrangements that apply in Ireland, if they moved ERC or "son of ERC" would there be a big tax hit - particularly in Hollande's France?

HammerofThunor wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Stuart Gallacher
Regional Rugby Wales chairman:


"And the four Welsh regions are themselves tied into agreements to play in the Pro12 alongside teams from Ireland, Scotland and Italy."


BBC Sports. 28/03/2013


As far as Gallacher is concerned, the 4 Welsh regions are tied to the Rabo.

Is this the article you're referring to?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21977459

In this one, that's not a quote from Gallacher. It's just your bit makes it look like it's a direct quote.

mystiroakey wrote:What does annoy me though about these sporting bodies being in tax havens(ireland isnt off course a tax haven bar sports admin)

Bodies shouldn't make a profit ever!!

Everything should go back into the game