Degale v Bika

Ok, on the heels of the Ward v Groves article, I thought I'd offer this match-up for debate. Degale is going the WBC route at the moment and is apparently looking for an Eliminator in the New Year. If he gets one and wins, he will be looking at Bika. Can Degale hang with Bika? I would have to say no. Bika is incredibly tough, dirty and a bully. I could see him walking Deale down and battering him against the ropes.

Does anybody think Degale can take Bika? He has the skills, but Degale’s performances haven't inspired me.

I dont see Degale having enough to keep Bika off him and i think it would be a painful night for him ending in a late stoppage or a severe hammering. That said i will be cheering Degale on and would be delighted to be proved wrong as i hate watching Bika and all his fouling.

Funny to look on boxrec and just count how many times the phrase accidental headbutt/clash appears on bikas record! Would i be right in assuming this is no accident?

Degale does seem to switch off for a few rounds every fight, and lets his opponent get back into it. If he can work for a full 12 rounds, then I think he can nick a close decision. Not confident of it though. Bika has fought at a decent level for a while and does know a lot of tricks..

DeGale is currently still going the bin men route. Decent prospect tho

It is most definitely a step up for Degale, But I cant see why he wont have a good chance of beating Bika.

For me when he looks good he looks top top class, then he suddenly looks crap for a couple rounds and then does what he needs to do to win the fight.

He is out classing his opponents so his step up is merited.

I think his fight with Periban (if he gets it) will also be a bit of a step up for him and from there we will really see how he will fair against the better fighters.

For me I would like to think a bigger challenge is exactly what Degale needs and we may just see the best of him... Maybe also a bit of wishful thinking there but I do feel Degale looks unmotivated against his current opposition, which he should not really be but thats what a gold medal does to you I guess.

DeGale would lose

Degale to take the first half of the fight then gasses, gets walked down, stalked, and stopped/koed late.

but Bika is 1 dirty fighter who cannot jab.

A style which consists of only moderate punching power, often low punch output and spending a lot of time backed to the ropes doesn't bode too well against someone like Bika!

DeGale seems to have a sturdy enough chin, and Bika is a hurtful and accumulative puncher rather than a genuine knockout one, so I could see Chunky going the distance, but based on what he's shown so far in his career he'd lose a decision and get pretty banged up in the process.

He's got the basic speed to give Bika some trouble, but until I see him utilise it properly for the full twelve rounds or cut out the big lulls in activity he seems to have in every fight, I won't hold my breath that he can win this one, if it ever gets made.

The final eliminator for the right to face Bika is against Julio Cesar Chavez Jr.

DeGale has no chance of beating Chavez Jr.

Chavez Jr. is a bum. Degale should be able to box his ears off if Vera can blow himself up and beat him (in many peoples eyes)

I think Degale will have done a disservice to his talent if he doesn't win a world title at some point. He does look to be moving and boxing better, perhaps that knee injury was for real. I think if he's focused he can outbox Bika, and he's not shy in the clinches himself.

I've said it before, but I really think Degale could benefit from an American trainer

Imagine what Mayweather gym could turn Degale into

Degale would benefit from any change of trainer, the current guy is a moron. Loyalty is all very good but the guy has stood still talent-wise for two years now.

BallchinianMuffwig wrote:Imagine what Mayweather gym could turn Degale into

What exactly would they turn him into? He's certainly no Floyd Mayweather.

sittingringside wrote:I think Degale will have done a disservice to his talent if he doesn't win a world title at some point. He does look to be moving and boxing better, perhaps that knee injury was for real. I think if he's focused he can outbox Bika, and he's not shy in the clinches himself.

You must have missed his last fight to make a statement like that,Degale's nothing more than average.

Nico the gman wrote:

sittingringside wrote:I think Degale will have done a disservice to his talent if he doesn't win a world title at some point. He does look to be moving and boxing better, perhaps that knee injury was for real. I think if he's focused he can outbox Bika, and he's not shy in the clinches himself.

You must have missed his last fight to make a statement like that,Degale's nothing more than average.

Are you saying that he doid not clearly outbox the guy just because he had a couple bad rounds?

Who was he fighting again Tunes, a guy known only because his dad was fairly successful 30 years ago.

I have seen Degale's last fight yes. He has a lot of natural ability and I think that still shines through, I don't know many British fighters that can avoid punches the way he was doing for the first six rounds. Obviously the opposition was well short of top class, but even given that it shows real skill. The mistakes are still there, but I really think all his problems are fixable with the right training.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Who was he fighting again Tunes, a guy known only because his dad was fairly successful 30 years ago.

Thats not the issue, Degale was expected to outbox him and win, and he did.... but because he had a couple sloppy rounds, all of a sudden he is average.

Bika only just about stopped him in the 10th of a 10 rounder...

That is entirely the issue, outboxing a guy who's not throwing anything isn't difficult and shouldn't really be praised to the level you are.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:That is entirely the issue, outboxing a guy who's not throwing anything isn't difficult and shouldn't really be praised to the level you are.

Its not at all the issue as you can only beat whats put in front of you, and he has, convinsingly. So how can people point to this fight to say he is poor.

The guy is not a world class fighter, but he has fought world class fighters, and Bika only done a little better against him him self... If we can make a complete assessment on that then good luck to you

Bika has been in the ring with the best in the division and had 40 fights, and stopped this Davis guy in the last round.

I would think Degale only having fought 18 times can be expected to possibly improve. Unless you hate him and dont want him too of course

Nothing to be with hating him it's acknowledging that he makes a lot of basic errors and doesn't seem to be progressing at all, the only world class fighter he's faced beat him. Against Davis he just looked poor, very little work rate, getting caught with silly shots and looked to be gassing in the final third of the fight.

Lets not forget the world class fighter that beat him was not world class at the time. Groves however, has evolved whereas Degale has stood still.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Nothing to be with hating him it's acknowledging that he makes a lot of basic errors and doesn't seem to be progressing at all, the only world class fighter he's faced beat him. Against Davis he just looked poor, very little work rate, getting caught with silly shots and looked to be gassing in the final third of the fight.

I agree he makes basic errors But in the same fights he also shows skills that show he is more than capable of not making such errors... which for me underlines potential... also these basic errors are not constant through a fight... He also made these errors against Groves and while he "lost" he more than matched Groves.

So while I agree he has had faults, when people brand him as "Average" it just sounds like hater talk...

No he is not perfect but neither is Bika.

KingMonkey wrote:Lets not forget the world class fighter that beat him was not world class at the time. Groves however, has evolved whereas Degale has stood still.

This is a fallacy.

Groves was very poor against Anderson when his defense was too open. Against Degale he tightened it up and looked a much better fighter, And since then has fought fighters that Degale would have also out boxed...

Both Groves and Degale lacked experience in that fight and it was the first time Degale had is hands full as a pro, But to say Groves has leaped forward since when he did not fight anyone he would not have been expected to beat easily is a bit of a leap for me...

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Nothing to be with hating him it's acknowledging that he makes a lot of basic errors and doesn't seem to be progressing at all, the only world class fighter he's faced beat him. Against Davis he just looked poor, very little work rate, getting caught with silly shots and looked to be gassing in the final third of the fight.

I think we're just going to have to agree to differ on our assessment of 'looking poor'. For the first half of the fight I thought he looked excellent, Davis hardly put a glove on him. There were two bad rounds just after halfway, and then he got the back under control and finished on top. I just think that Degale's work rate and stamina can be improved with training, whereas his hand-speed and reflexes show that he has talent.

tunes666 wrote:

KingMonkey wrote:Lets not forget the world class fighter that beat him was not world class at the time. Groves however, has evolved whereas Degale has stood still.

This is a fallacy.

Groves was very poor against Anderson when his defense was too open. Against Degale he tightened it up and looked a much better fighter, And since then has fought fighters that Degale would have also out boxed...

Both Groves and Degale lacked experience in that fight and it was the first time Degale had is hands full as a pro, But to say Groves has leaped forward since when he did not fight anyone he would not have been expected to beat easily is a bit of a leap for me...

What's not a fallacy is your DeGale man-crush.

You're just guessing that he'd have outboxed people who were, for the most part, better/higher calibre opponents than those De Gale has actually looked pretty naff against. For example his very next match was against a JdG victim (Smith) and he whalloped him. He then outboxed a guy who's a thousand times better than anything JdG has fought.

You're making JdG sound like his performances have been Rigo-esque - now that's a fallacy! He's looked average, at best, against very poor opponents.

GG has looked more and more competent as he's gone on, James hasn't shown any improvement whatsoever.

Put the Vaseline down and open your eyes.

I think Degale can beat Bika if he gets in better shape, basically.

sittingringside wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Nothing to be with hating him it's acknowledging that he makes a lot of basic errors and doesn't seem to be progressing at all, the only world class fighter he's faced beat him. Against Davis he just looked poor, very little work rate, getting caught with silly shots and looked to be gassing in the final third of the fight.

I think we're just going to have to agree to differ on our assessment of 'looking poor'. For the first half of the fight I thought he looked excellent, Davis hardly put a glove on him. There were two bad rounds just after halfway, and then he got the back under control and finished on top. I just think that Degale's work rate and stamina can be improved with training, whereas his hand-speed and reflexes show that he has talent.

I agree.

You cant dismiss how he completely dismantles people at times..

I think his attitude is where he is at fault and his mind set does not look focused enough IMO, its like he sees these fights as a nuisance as he looks to a world title shot but he is still facing some durable fighters that need taking care of... At his stage every fight should be a massive fight but its like its a training session for him.

Dismantles??

TopHat24/7 wrote:

What's not a fallacy is your DeGale man-crush.

If you want to call it a man crush then knock your self out! lol , If its man crush then I think this forum should be renamed mens man crush forum, as there seems to be a fair bit of crushes here! lol

You're just guessing that he'd have outboxed people who were, for the most part, better/higher calibre opponents than those De Gale has actually looked pretty naff against. For example his very next match was against a JdG victim (Smith) and he whalloped him.  He then outboxed a guy who's a thousand times better than anything JdG has fought.

See, forum of man crushes!

I disagree, If anything Degale has faced the more live opponents, all be it quite even. Who on earth are you implying Degale would have lost to?

You talk a man crushes, I think its more a case of a man vendetta!

Either you did not see the Degale Smith fight or you dont know anything about Boxing. Because Degale went to Liverpool in his home town outboxed him every round and then stopped him in the 9th.

Groves KOed him yes, he also got wobbled by him in the first where he was saved by the bell.
Power is not the only thing that makes you good, it can just make you win fights quickly if you manage to land clean enough... if you cant then you need other things.

You're making JdG sound like his performances have been Rigo-esque - now that's a fallacy! He's looked average, at best, against very poor opponents.

Not at all, I'm only responsible for what I say not what you understand. I have said Degale has faults and listed them, but also addressed that he is completely out boxing people and still winning despite those flaws... If you cant see that then its because you dont like him, simple as that.

GG has looked more and more competent as he's gone on, James hasn't shown any improvement whatsoever.

I think Degale has improved slightly, but still lacks in some areas. I think Groves showed he can box against world opposition despite his loss against Froch... but at what fight did you sudenly see him become the second coming, as far as I know he has always had a dig on him and able to stop people, apart from Froch, Degale, and a very old Johnson, the hardest fights he has had.

But im not knocking your fetish for Groves, as he has proven to be world class despite his own stamina flaws.. (when he is not able to KO people) ...

Im just pointing out that if you think Degale has no chance against Bika, then I think your wrong.

Put the Vaseline down and open your eyes.

You mean you want me to leave it there for you and your Groves pics   

TopHat24/7 wrote:Dismantles??

Dismantled

Sorry to confuse you.

Like I say TopHat, he has haters, But I like to assess boxers for what they are, not who I fancy most.

tunes666 wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Dismantles??

Dismantled

Sorry to confuse you.

No, your grammar was correct, your conclusions were where you went awry.

I've always though DeGale looks physically weaker the the top SMW's. The very short range pitter patter punches don't help the perception he is not going to do much damage to an opponent.

Bika looked a beast against Dirrell and Direll is a big SMW. I could see DeGale getting steam rolled.

tunes666 wrote:Like I say TopHat, he has haters, But I like to assess boxers for what they are, not who I fancy most.

No, you've always had a serious hard on for James De Gale, remember it way back to the GG fight (and pretty much everything you've ever posted since that's in any way connected to him).

I don't like Floyd as a person, but I still rate him as a fantastic boxer. I can separate the two just fine.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

tunes666 wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Dismantles??

Dismantled

Sorry to confuse you.

No, your grammar was correct, your conclusions were where you went awry.

Well, bubbles can be bliss I guess! I would say winning 6 rounds on the trot while nearly stopping a guy a couple times is pretty much dismantling someone.

But of course because then had two crud rounds before coasting to the end of the fight, then it was an abomination of boxing, and he of course has no talent.

I always think DeGale looks physically weaker than the top SMW's.  The very short range pitter patter punches don't help the perception he is not going to do much damage to an opponent.

Bika looked a beast against Dirrell and Direll is a big SMW.  I could see DeGale getting steam rolled.

More live opponents - it's comments like that that make you look silly. His opponents have never been better than average Euro level fighters. GG has had filler on the same level but has also fought substantially better - Froch and Glen Johnson.

Also, re Paul Smith, JdG boxed handily against him, nice performance, but GG blew him away. There's a difference.

But hey ho, you keep getting over-excited about JdG 'out-boxing' nobodies (you must be a big Calzaghe fan?) and I'll leave GG to do the talking at world level.

tunes666 wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

tunes666 wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Dismantles??

Dismantled

Sorry to confuse you.

No, your grammar was correct, your conclusions were where you went awry.

Well, bubbles can be bliss I guess!  I would say winning 6 rounds on the trot while nearly stopping a guy a couple times is pretty much dismantling someone.

But of course because then had two crud rounds before coasting to the end of the fight, then it was an abomination of boxing, and he of course has no talent.

Nice, so by those guidelines GG 'dismantled' Froch??

Wow, proof indeed that he's miles ahead of DeGold.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

No, you've always had a serious hard on for James De Gale,

Well he is a good looking chap, im sure there are guys who has a hard on for him, dont beat your self up over it!

remember it way back to the GG fight (and pretty much everything you've ever posted since that's in any way connected to him).

I am a supporter yes as I am of a good few other boxers (mostly British)  So "everything connected to him" for me seems to address your own obsession than mine mate! ... Dont let him upset you so much!

For example Im also a fan of Froch, but it does not mean I want to bum him! ... is this how you rate your own favs? , by how much you want to give them a good seeing to? , as its not mine! lol

What about Fury?, I like him too and fancied him to give Haye a good fight, But there is no way Im letting him kock on my back door! lol

TopHat24/7 wrote:

tunes666 wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

tunes666 wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Dismantles??

Dismantled

Sorry to confuse you.

No, your grammar was correct, your conclusions were where you went awry.

Well, bubbles can be bliss I guess!  I would say winning 6 rounds on the trot while nearly stopping a guy a couple times is pretty much dismantling someone.

But of course because then had two crud rounds before coasting to the end of the fight, then it was an abomination of boxing, and he of course has no talent.

Nice, so by those guidelines GG 'dismantled' Froch??

Wow, proof indeed that he's miles ahead of DeGold.

LOL im not talking about Groves, you seem more hell bent of defending your lover GG than assessing if Degale is good enough to beat Bika!

YES, Groves did dismantle Froch for about 6 - 7 rounds and was doing fantastic, which I stated here on the evening he lost to him.

And if that gives you multiple organisms then good for you.

But how can you compare Groves fighting a world class fighter to Degale, when Degale has not had the chance yet???

Thats the point of this thread I think, to assess his own chances.  

By 'connected' the most obvious recent example was your snooker-loopy assessment of the Froch-GG fight where you achieved Az levels of contrarianism to find a way the bash JdG's vanquisher.

TopHat24/7 wrote:By 'connected' the most obvious recent example was your snooker-loopy assessment of the Froch-GG fight where you achieved Az levels of contrarianism to find a way the bash JdG's vanquisher.

You mean where I thought Groves would have been stopped in the 9th and it was not as outragious as most Groves fans thought? , Yes and I stand by that.

He was gassing and was getting beat up as many predicted he would late in the fight, just because he smashed Froch up till round 8 it does not mean he had it in the bag.  Deal with it.

And how is that "connected" to Degale? Makes no odds who won that fight as Degale is taking the Bika root.

tunes666 wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

tunes666 wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

tunes666 wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Dismantles??

Dismantled

Sorry to confuse you.

No, your grammar was correct, your conclusions were where you went awry.

Well, bubbles can be bliss I guess!  I would say winning 6 rounds on the trot while nearly stopping a guy a couple times is pretty much dismantling someone.

But of course because then had two crud rounds before coasting to the end of the fight, then it was an abomination of boxing, and he of course has no talent.

Nice, so by those guidelines GG 'dismantled' Froch??

Wow, proof indeed that he's miles ahead of DeGold.

LOL im not talking about Groves, you seem more hell bent of defending your lover GG than assessing if Degale is good enough to beat Bika!

YES, Groves did dismantle Froch for about 6 - 7 rounds and was doing fantastic, which I stated here on the evening he lost to him.

And if that gives you multiple organisms then good for you.

But how can you compare Groves fighting a world class fighter to Degale, when Degale has not had the chance yet???

Thats the point of this thread I think, to assess his own chances.  

I think the point is you're coming up with wild assessments of JdG based on showings versus non-entities. GG simply provides a useful yardstick because nobody else he's fought does.

tunes666 wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:By 'connected' the most obvious recent example was your snooker-loopy assessment of the Froch-GG fight where you achieved Az levels of contrarianism to find a way the bash JdG's vanquisher.

And how is that "connected" to Degale?  Makes no odds who won that fight as Degale is taking the Bika root.

Connected because you've had a bitter dislike of GG ever since "and the NEW...", which manifested itself in your contrarian assessment of the Froch fight (which wasn't as simplistic as you're now trying to make out, people were even proving you wrong with slow-mo clips because you were making so much rot up).

Not sure DeGale can keep Bika off for 12 rounds. no doubt he will at times outbox Bika and maybe even make him look stupid at times. Dirrell certainly did the other night. but degale doesn't have as much power as dirrell, and bika wont respect him. he will walk him down all fight, willing to take plenty in order to land some. can degale keep off the ropes? protect himself from bikas dangerous body shots? a lot would depend on where its held and who the ref is. if bika is allowed to fight his fight he becomes very tough. im not sure degale is tough enough to last it out.

Groves outboxing, dropping and performing brilliantly against Froch is a huge difference in quality faced. If we compare the pairs last performances we can see a clear progression in one and not the other. Groves might have lost but very few would have been hanging still in the 9th after such a beating.