Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[MontysMerkin]

That's why these pursuits should be undertaken in videogames and not in real life. Real life has a nasty habit of finding you out to be the hopeless loser you don't think you are.

[mystiroakey]

I like the new Grand theft auto. Havent picked it up for a month or so. BUt yeah top game Monty.

Have you completed it?

[MontysMerkin]

Trying not to, cos I don't want it to end  
Have started playing online quite a bit now. Me n me bro meet up and do quite a few mission and stuff. Great laugh.

[mystiroakey]

Nice.

[McLaren]

From the well known anti apartheid campaigner Gary Player

Gary Player ‏@garyplayer
"Sport has the power to change the world. To inspire, to unite people & speak to the youth in a language they understand" Nelson Mandela RIP

[super_realist]

I think he's effectively been dead for months Mac, probably a relief for him and his family.

Great innings though. 95 is a feat to be celebrated rather than mourned.

[navyblueshorts]

From the well known anti apartheid campaigner Gary Player

Gary Player ‏@garyplayer
"Sport has the power to change the world. To inspire, to unite people & speak to the youth in a language they understand" Nelson Mandela RIP

I assume your "well known anti apartheid campaigner" bit is tongue-in-cheek???

Player, in his own words:

"I must say now, and clearly, that I am of the South Africa of Verwoerd and apartheid ... a nation which is the result of an African graft on European stock and which is the product of its instinct and ability to maintain civilised values and standards amongst the alien barbarians ... The African may well believe in witchcraft and primitive magic, practise ritual murder and polygamy; his wealth is in cattle. More money and he will have no sense of parental or individual responsibility, no understanding of reverence for life or the human soul which is the basis of Christian and other civilised societies. ... A good deal of nonsense is talked of, and indeed thought about 'segregation'. Segregation of one kind or another is practised everywhere in the world."

Frequent golfing partner of John Vorster I believe. Ah yes, the true anti-apartheid campaigner. To be fair, he was younger then but even so...

[McLaren]

Yes, of course it is tongue in cheek.

That quote is astounding. Where did you find it?

[navyblueshorts]

A Guardian article by George Monbiot. I think it's from Player's autobiography.

Actually, Googling <gary player apartheid> throws up quite a few interesting alleged tid-bits about the man.

[MontysMerkin]

Ahh from terrorist to national hero. Bet the 2 faced tory *rseholes are feeling a little nervous at the moment....

[super_realist]

Ahh from terrorist to national hero. Bet the 2 faced tory *rseholes are feeling a little nervous at the moment....

?

[MontysMerkin]

The tory support of apartheid for many years may come out to bite them on the bum. Especially in light of the Iraqi and Afghan freedom fighters terrorists and they way we treat (murder?) them.

[super_realist]

 

Mmm, which Tory and which Tory party led the UK into Iraq and Afghanistan?

[MontysMerkin]

I didn't mean it was the tories wot done it. Just that 1 mans freedom fighter etc etc. I meant the unswerving support by the tories for apartheid. But it's ok cos Dave sez he was a great bloke n that.

[McLaren]

A Guardian article by George Monbiot. I think it's from Player's autobiography.

Actually, Googling <gary player apartheid> throws up quite a few interesting alleged tid-bits about the man.

Thanks navy.

The more you hear and read about Player the more of a disgusting human being he becomes.

[raycastleunited]

I didn't mean it was the tories wot done it. Just that 1 mans freedom fighter etc etc. I meant the unswerving support by the tories for apartheid. But it's ok cos Dave sez he was a great bloke n that.

Right... so it's Dave's fault, cos he was responsible for Tory policies in the 70's and 80's. Ruling the nation after school. How did he ever finish his homework before lights out?

[mystiroakey]

A Guardian article by George Monbiot. I think it's from Player's autobiography.

Actually, Googling <gary player apartheid> throws up quite a few interesting alleged tid-bits about the man.

Thanks navy.

The more you hear and read about Player the more of a disgusting human being he becomes.

pffft.

the man is a legend.

[MontysMerkin]

I didn't mean it was the tories wot done it. Just that 1 mans freedom fighter etc etc. I meant the unswerving support by the tories for apartheid. But it's ok cos Dave sez he was a great bloke n that.

Right... so it's Dave's fault, cos he was responsible for Tory policies in the 70's and 80's. Ruling the nation after school. How did he ever finish his homework before lights out?

Nothing to do with Dave directly I s'pose, but he does represent a party that encouraged it's young members to wear shirts in the 80's demanding mandella be strung up. Cameron did go on a trip to SA when he was a youth during apartheid years sponsored by a rather unsavoury company that backed the apartheid lobby. However I'm sure he will come out now and say what a great bloke I loved the guy etc etc...

[super_realist]

And I'm sure all Labour supporters and politicians were extremely right on in regard to the whole situation and no Labour person ever went to SA during Apartheid and none have ever transgressed a social no no in regard to the country.

This distinction between parties as a ruse to simply Tory bash is stupid.
It's basically like saying that being because of the slave trade in Bristol that it will come back to haunt the current residents one day. Or maybe the current cricketers because England played in SA during the Apartheid era.

[MontysMerkin]

It's basically like saying that being because of the slave trade in Bristol that it will come back to haunt the current residents one day. Or maybe the current cricketers because England played in SA during the Apartheid era.

Not really like that at all is it?

[super_realist]

No, that would fit a model better than what you suggested.

You suggested that "two faced tories" would be nervous in the wake of Mandela's death because they supposedly "condoned" Apartheid and somehow made a link that the Labour governed Iraq and Afghanistan invasions would somehow come back to haunt the Tories.
Well done, great analogy.

[kwinigolfer]

I went to South Africa a couple of times during Apartheid and was struck how prejudiced every nationality seemed fiercely protective of its own ethnicity, not just black and white or Cape Coloured or Indian, but Africaans, Scots, Italian, English, you name it they weren't going to let their daughter consort with someone of a different background.
Exaggeration I'm sure but that was the first impression I took away.

Sickening sights abounded like whiteman hitting balls on the practice range at The Wanderers and blackboy fetching them.
Not to mention some of the "trophies" "acquired" by regiments in Angola and displayed at a sergeants' mess I was invited to.

Not nice and very happy to be outathere.

[MontysMerkin]

Sorry if you didn't get what I meant. Never mentioned Labour once.
The tories (Mrs T) were categorically against Mandela (some of whom are still active in the party). Tory youth movement printed tshirts with hang mandela on them. Dave was sponsored by apartheid loving company for a jolly round SA in the 80's.

Are afghan and iraqi 'terrorists' going to be treated as heroes one day? We'll see.

Come along now do keep up...  

[super_realist]

Loads of non tories also supported apartheid.

[MontysMerkin]

Great point.

Of course people are free to change their minds about all sorts of issues and I hope that the tory standpoint has changed for real (and not just for the media). However they do support social fragmentation and social division which unfortunately is pretty much what apartheid tried to do. You could never accuse the tory party of being inclusive and socially unifying.

[super_realist]

Great point.

Of course people are free to change their minds about all sorts of issues and I hope that the tory standpoint has changed for real (and not just for the media). However they do support social fragmentation and social division which unfortunately is pretty much what apartheid tried to do. You could never accuse the tory party of being inclusive and socially unifying.

Such as?

[MontysMerkin]

Come come now, you should be able to work that out without my help.

[super_realist]

You can't simply assert it as something "they do support". If you claim it's one of their policies and something they actively seek to enforce then let's see some examples.

[navyblueshorts]

A Guardian article by George Monbiot. I think it's from Player's autobiography.

Actually, Googling <gary player apartheid> throws up quite a few interesting alleged tid-bits about the man.

Thanks navy.

The more you hear and read about Player the more of a disgusting human being he becomes.

pffft.

the man is a legend.

...in his own head.

[MontysMerkin]

They go after benefit cheats and dole scroungers (worth a few millions) but let off corporations owing billions.
They have abolished grants for education.
They are trying to sell off the NHS.
They have sold off many social care facilities.
They have (or nearly have) sold off the prison service and the probation service.
The gap between rich and poor has widened and social inequality is at it's highest.
They promote the make money at all costs approach.

That's not to say any other party is any better, but I should think even you would have to admit that they are not the last bastion of social justice and equality.

[MontysMerkin]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25237844
absolutely beggars belief.

[mystiroakey]

A Guardian article by George Monbiot. I think it's from Player's autobiography.

Actually, Googling <gary player apartheid> throws up quite a few interesting alleged tid-bits about the man.

Thanks navy.

The more you hear and read about Player the more of a disgusting human being he becomes.

pffft.

the man is a legend.

...in his own head.

I met him and he was a legend to me. A bit of an a hole, but his intentions were honourable. I will never ever forget that 5 minute lecture from him

[super_realist]

Actually Monty it was Labour who abolished grants and introduced tuition fees.
They are not trying to sell off the NHS
Labour has also sold off public assets. We're a mixed economy, that's what happens.
So what if the gap has widened between rich and poor, it isn't a Tory policy for it to happen and not something they've actively been trying to achieve. If you haven't noticed it's the same the world over in this current climate, not a Tory product.
They have actually reduced taxes and increased the tax threshold for those on lower incomes than it was under labour and it was Labour who failed to restrict the actions of the banks and presided over the worst economic situation since the war. They seldom keep their promises on anything, so lets not try and paint one as being worse than any other. None really deserve our vote, and none have really done a great deal in recent years for our country.

[MontysMerkin]

Actually Monty it was Labour who abolished grants and introduced tuition fees. CORRECT but torys doing nothing to change it back.
They are not trying to sell off the NHS INCORRECT several departments have been sold to Virgin and Blue Cross in our region already. They have not paid for infrastructure, training or assets but have been given the contracts and taking the tariff.
Labour has also sold off public assets. CORRECT not sure I said otherwise.
So what if the gap has widened between rich and poor, it isn't a Tory policy and not something they've actively been trying to achieve. CORRECT but that is what social equality is.
They have actually reduced taxes and increased the tax threshold for those on lower incomes. CORRECT they have reduced taxes all round in order to reduce the role of all social services. It may not mean much to you n me but if you are in any way disenfranchised (disabled, elderly,  mental, thick, workshy) you will find yourself being left further and further behind

[super_realist]

Are you seriously expecting me to feel sympathy for the workshy, or give credit for Labour for allowing them to maintain that lifestyle?

Listen, I'm not a Tory and I'm not a Labour supporter, but by constantly having a dig at the Tories without mentioning the harm that Labour has done over the years is disingenuous.

Better to admit there is good AND bad in all, rather than only mention Tories which comes across as you not blaming any other hapless party which might have been responsible.

As for reversing policies, it simply isn't something which can be done immediately and sometimes it isn't a bad thing for things to be privatised or sold off.

You said that Tory's supported social exlusion and disparity. It simply isn't true, just because it may have happened, doesn't mean it is condoned or part of the manifesto. Show me where in their manifesto it says that's what they want to do.

It's like saying Labour were in favour of the banks going bust, simply because it happened on their watch.

[super_realist]

England, Italy, Uruguay and Costa Rica.

Qualification from their group is nowhere near guaranteed.

[MontysMerkin]

I think comparing them to nulabour isn't fair either. Labour had moved so far from socialist ideals that they were more Tory than Tory! They certainly didn't reverse any of the problems created by successive Tory governments which we are paying for now. I'm not a socialist at heart but feel that a fairer system would be best all round. It is idealistic but you have start somewhere. There's enough money sloshing round the world to sort the whole blinking human race out but unfortunately the sort of policies put forward but Tory's (and labour more recently) will never allow that to happen. The sort of altruism shown in previous generations has been overshadowed by personal greed and manipulation in more recent times. It certainly makes you wonder what sort of country/world our children and grandchildren will have to live in.

[mystiroakey]

Nonsense qualification situation.

Group B and E have 6 of the top 15 sides in the world within!!

Fifa change the pot situation last minute to save frances blushes(as they did before the euro play offs!!)

you have two groups with 6 top 15 teams and then a group that has Switzerland and the next best is ranked 19th!

lol

Oh well I am not bothered as an England fan. But what a mess. I would rather have a tough group

[MontysMerkin]

Well it'll be interesting to see if we get out the group that's for sure. Gonna be good games whatever, love the wc, ale n footy, classic combo!

[mystiroakey]

Nice to be an underdog for the groups,

Italy and Suarez!!

yikes!

[MontysMerkin]

Quite like the way we've played recently even with poor results. Bit of luck and the right bounce reckon we could win it  

[mystiroakey]

Suraez as we know can beat anyone on his own.

He is that good.

I think we could have a chance v them if he isnt on top form , and against italy its allways a close scoring game..

But I wouldn't be surprised if we lost them both even if we play really well.

[Davie]

Fifa change the pot situation last minute to save frances blushes(as they did before the euro play offs!!)

I don't understand this bitching about FIFA (this time) ... there has never been any secret in FIFA's decision to make the pools geographically based

One could argue it could have been seeded - but it wasn't - and it has been made very public right from the start. In many ways, geographical groupings make a lot of sense from a tournament and commercial point of view. These are the rules (like them or not) and we live and die by them. Anyone not liking them is on dodgy ground like claiming it's OK to tap down a spike mark on a green because you don't agree with the rules that are set by the governing bodies

And can anyone tell me why France should get preferential treatment by FIFA? Platini is a UEFA official isn't he? Not FIFA

[raycastleunited]

Well it'll be interesting to see if we get out the group that's for sure. Gonna be good games whatever, love the wc, ale n footy, classic combo!

Monty I'm surprised you like the World Cup. It's not very fair is it? Not much equality when some teams are so much better than others. Maybe Spain should have to hand over some of its best players to disadvantaged and disenfranchised teams like England. Also maybe they should change it so there is no winner, because that's too elitist

[raycastleunited]

Er Davie, think you've missed the point. There were 9 unseeded European teams so one had to go into a different pot, meaning one group would potentially feature a seeded team and two European heavyweights.

FIFA changed the rule at the last minute so that France would not be the country in the different pot. And guess which group ended up with a seed AND two heavyweights?

[Davie]

Which rule was changed at the last minute Ray?

[mystiroakey]

Fifa change the pot situation last minute to save frances blushes(as they did before the euro play offs!!)

I don't understand this bitching about FIFA (this time) ... there has never been any secret in FIFA's decision to make the pools geographically based

One could argue it could have been seeded - but it wasn't - and it has been made very public right from the start. In many ways, geographical groupings make a lot of sense from a tournament and commercial point of view. These are the rules (like them or not) and we live and die by them. Anyone not liking them is on dodgy ground like claiming it's OK to tap down a spike mark on a green because you don't agree with the rules that are set by the governing bodies

And can anyone tell me why France should get preferential treatment by FIFA? Platini is a UEFA official isn't he? Not FIFA

The problem isn't the geographical pots . That allways  happens.

The problem was changing last minute the way the euro 9 non seeds were to be dealt with.

Which again favours France.. just like what happened when the play offs changed last minute for the last euro.

[super_realist]

Er Davie, think you've missed the point. There were 9 unseeded European teams so one had to go into a different pot, meaning one group would potentially feature a seeded team and two European heavyweights.

FIFA changed the rule at the last minute so that France would not be the country in the different pot. And guess which group ended up with a seed AND two heavyweights?

Germany's group looks pretty tricky, England are not a European heavyweight and all the rest are fairly even. So looks like the draw is decent for everyone and no conspiracy can be drawn.

[Davie]

I repeat - how was it changed at the last minute? What makes you say France were favoured? I don't see Septic Bladder having any love for les frogs

[1GrumpyGolfer]

The rule they used last time around this happened in 2006 was the lowest ranked of the 9 European teams would get moved to pot 2.  The same was expected this time around with France being the one to move pots as they were the lowest ranked side however they decided to go with a draw for the one to move.

Ignoring probabilty and all that I wouldn't have thought there was too much difference from Uruguay, France, Costa Rica to Uruguay, Italy, Costa Rica.  We still would have got group D and not the easier group E but I'm sure the Italians would have been a little bit happier.

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