Dr Roberts claims being Wales based is not crucial issue!

So is Jamie Roberts right to claim that not being Wales based is not a crucial issue?

I have to be honest from a players point of view I agree with him, the standard of rugby will only make these players better IMO, although they will play more games and are more likely to pick up injuries but a rugby players career is only a short one for most so why not cash in and let your bank balance grow.

But, and it is a BIG but, playing abroad (not so much England) in France for example does limit the chances of fans getting to see their hero's up close on a weekly basis and that can only be a negative.   


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25338511

Plus the quality of rugby in the Top 14 is shoite. That won't help much either.

Interesting. The French based players WILL turn up to training on the same Monday. As will the England based players. But if they don't have a release contract they have to go back for the weekend to play for their club. Has he got a release contract in his?

Also, it doesn't matter to the International team. It will bring the domestic game to it's knees however.

rodders wrote:Plus the quality of rugby in the Top 14 is shoite. That won't help much either.

This, Top 14 is very slow, has to be the most overrated thing around.

Scrumpy wrote:So is Jamie Roberts right to claim that not being Wales based is not a crucial issue?

I have to be honest from a players point of view I agree with him, the standard of rugby will only make these players better IMO, although they will play more games and are more likely to pick up injuries but a rugby players career is only a short one for most so why not cash in and let your bank balance grow.

But, and it is a BIG but, playing abroad (not so much England) in France for example does limit the chances of fans getting to see their hero's up close on a weekly basis and that can only be a negative.   


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25338511

This article is based on a radio Wales interview aired last night. I listened to it and Jaw is quite correct in tweeting the following....

Jamie Roberts ‏@Jamiehuwroberts 2h
just read the article. Shame a lot of what I said has been left out!

Things Roberts said that mysteriously didn't appear in the BBC website article:

“From a player view, it’s frustrating that it’s all above our heads”

“I’d echo Ryan Jones comments the other day” (he came out in favour of an anglo-welsh cup)

“This has the potential to leave a scar on the domestic game, which will take a long time to heal”

“Young kids want to go down the arms park and see the best welsh players. That’s not going to be happening and is one thing that does worry me. You’ll be losing a generation of top international players”

“A British league with 2 divisions of 14 teams would be a fantastic product”

“The Aviva Premiership is where the tv money, the crowds and it’s something very appealing for Welsh regions to go and join”

From a players point of view, then yes maybe better pay and lifestyle. But 2 important factors for me:

1. None of the current players so far has gone to France and come back a better player. It therefore does not benefit the player or the national team. Maybe in the past Alfie and Stephen Jones improved, but they are not around now to use that improvement.
2. If the best players leave Wales then the teams here get worse. Fans won't pay to watch a poorer product and so stop going. Kids are not taken along, they don't idolise rugby players. They then don't play rugby, so instead go to football and play that instead. Numbers then dwindle, so the odds of finding stars is less.

So yes, from the lucky players point of view then everything is healthy. For the national team and the domestic game in general it doesn't help things IMO. Some will say that it creates places in teams for youngsters. I want a situation where youngsters need to be good enough to fight for a place and oust stars, rather than be given a place by default as there are gaps to be filled. We've been there before with Welsh Rugby - a Welsh league with teams filled with 'professionals' claiming a pro wage when they were semi-pro standard at best. That's why we went regional in the first place, to concentrate the talent. If the talent goes abroad in the majority the we're left trying to fill sides to fulfill fixtures which is no good for anybody.

Griff wrote:From a players point of view, then yes maybe better pay and lifestyle.  But 2 important factors for me:

1.  None of the current players so far has gone to France and come back a better player. It therefore does not benefit the player or the national team.  Maybe in the past Alfie and Stephen Jones improved, but they are not around now to use that improvement.  
2. If the best players leave Wales then the teams here get worse.  Fans won't pay to watch a poorer product and so stop going.  Kids are not taken along, they don't idolise rugby players.  They then don't play rugby, so instead go to football and play that instead.  Numbers then dwindle, so the odds of finding stars is less.

So yes, from the lucky players point of view then everything is healthy.  For the national team and the domestic game in general it doesn't help things IMO.  Some will say that it creates places in teams for youngsters.  I want a situation where youngsters need to be good enough to fight for a place and oust stars, rather than be given a place by default as there are gaps to be filled.  We've been there before with Welsh Rugby - a Welsh league with teams filled with 'professionals' claiming a pro wage when they were semi-pro standard at best.  That's why we went regional in the first place, to concentrate the talent.  If the talent goes abroad in the majority the we're left trying to fill sides to fulfill fixtures which is no good for anybody.

i dont agree about kids and stars. gareth bale is most boy's hero. and he has never ever played club football in wales. joined southampton for coaching aged 11 or something ridiculous like that.

and yet football's popularity in wales is going from strength to strength, along with the success (chicken and egg scenario) of swansea and cardiff in the English Premiership.

in this era of modern media, i dont think it matters where a player plays (from the perspective of inspiring kids, especially as the national team is the more important), and they can easily be followed on t'internet or SKY or wherever.

quinsforever wrote:

in this era of modern media, i dont think it matters where a player plays (from the perspective of inspiring kids, especially as the national team is the more important), and they can easily be followed on t'internet or SKY or wherever.

I disagree with that, yes they can watch it on a tv, laptop tablet etc.. But the impact of seeing their heroes in the flesh and maybe even meeting them after a game is huge.

Scrumpy wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

in this era of modern media, i dont think it matters where a player plays (from the perspective of inspiring kids, especially as the national team is the more important), and they can easily be followed on t'internet or SKY or wherever.

I disagree with that, yes they can watch it on a tv, laptop tablet etc.. But the impact of seeing their heroes in the flesh and maybe even meeting them after a game is huge.

gareth bale has an awful lot more fans than have seen him play in the flesh.

Scrumpy wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

in this era of modern media, i dont think it matters where a player plays (from the perspective of inspiring kids, especially as the national team is the more important), and they can easily be followed on t'internet or SKY or wherever.

I disagree with that, yes they can watch it on a tv, laptop tablet etc.. But the impact of seeing their heroes in the flesh and maybe even meeting them after a game is huge.

Agree fully with this the atmosphere and even the small things like watching them warm up, can be really inspiring to youngster allows them to get some sense of the feeling that the top players get.

Welly wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

in this era of modern media, i dont think it matters where a player plays (from the perspective of inspiring kids, especially as the national team is the more important), and they can easily be followed on t'internet or SKY or wherever.

I disagree with that, yes they can watch it on a tv, laptop tablet etc.. But the impact of seeing their heroes in the flesh and maybe even meeting them after a game is huge.

Agree fully with this the atmosphere and even the small things like watching them warm up, can be really inspiring to youngster allows them to get some sense of the feeling that the top players get.

fair enough. but if they are at the games they are already fans. if i were a welsh boy i would find it pretty inspiring to know that halfpenny had moved to Clermont and would love him to have a chance of lifting the Heineken Cup, in addition to still seeing him play in every Wales match. it's pretty hard to idolise players in teams that keep losing. sorry, it's a bit mean, but it's true.

Chunky Norwich wrote:Things Roberts said that mysteriously didn't appear in the BBC website article:

“From a player view, it’s frustrating that it’s all above our heads”

“I’d echo Ryan Jones comments the other day” (he came out in favour of an anglo-welsh cup)

“This has the potential to leave a scar on the domestic game, which will take a long time to heal”

“Young kids want to go down the arms park and see the best welsh players. That’s not going to be happening and is one thing that does worry me. You’ll be losing a generation of top international players”

“A British league with 2 divisions of 14 teams would be a fantastic product”

“The Aviva Premiership is where the tv money, the crowds and it’s something very appealing for Welsh regions to go and join”

Not mysterious anymore is it really.

quinsforever wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

in this era of modern media, i dont think it matters where a player plays (from the perspective of inspiring kids, especially as the national team is the more important), and they can easily be followed on t'internet or SKY or wherever.

I disagree with that, yes they can watch it on a tv, laptop tablet etc.. But the impact of seeing their heroes in the flesh and maybe even meeting them after a game is huge.

gareth bale has an awful lot more fans than have seen him play in the flesh.

Does he!

or is it all just media hype created to sell computer games and fizzy drinks?

wonder how many Real Madrid shirts he has sold in Wales? pretty unlikely the welsh boys would have bought a tottenham shirt, but i bet you there's a fair few Real Madrid shirts in the valleys now

my little boy wears a Barca Messi shirt!

quinsforever wrote:
my little boy wears a Barca Messi shirt!

Can't you buy him a tidy one?

Whether Dr Roberts is right or wrong is not the issue.  My issue would be at how casually a Welsh International can say it doesn't take a feather out of him to help a French team achieve its goals in a Top14 and European context rather than helping along one of his own Regions do the very same thing.

He's right of course in the detail as in it isn't crucial (as if most of your best players are abroad, you'll be forced to make the best of it anyway in recalling them home for International)  But I personally was struck by what I regarded as an oh so casual approach to that truth. Culturally, I personally find it a little - well, off.

Can playing in your country for one of your own Regions, helping them finally succeed in a European context, be such a turn off? Ah well, different folks for different emotions.

fly

I agree with that sentiment. I think he's missing the point a bit. There are echos of the Welsh played going North in all this. All the best players leave for money leaving a poor quality competition which didn't develop the next generation of players. Give it 5 - 10 years and Welsh Rugby will be in the doldrums again

Players playing out of Wales in not an issue, not getting contracts sorted for full release is however an issue.

mckay1402 wrote:fly

I agree with that sentiment.  I think he's missing the point a bit.  There are echos of the Welsh played going North in all this.  All the best players leave for money leaving a poor quality competition which didn't develop the next generation of players.   Give it 5 - 10 years and Welsh Rugby will be in the doldrums again

When players went North there was no return as long as contracts are sorted there's nothing stopping them playing for Wales still.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Players playing out of Wales in not an issue, not getting contracts sorted for full release is however an issue.

But given that it has been mostly players playing In wales that have been doing the business in Europe at International level in the last few years; - if the Regions play on (in whatever contest) and maintain position or increase yearly presence in play-off stages of whatever league they happen to play in - who does the coach choose?  The guys who are all away?  Or does he trust his ability to again unearth his International team from mostly home based players?

I mean his current favourites didn't need to be from the best sides in the Pro12 league to prove themselves.  Do the future favourites have to come home to International duty from one of the supposedly Better Quality leagues? And is that belief expressed by Roberts actually his assertion that he's still comfortable nobody back home will take his International spot?

SecretFly wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Players playing out of Wales in not an issue, not getting contracts sorted for full release is however an issue.

But given that it has been mostly players playing In wales that have been doing the business in Europe at International level in the last few years; - if the Regions play on (in whatever contest) and maintain position or increase yearly presence in play-off stages of whatever league they happen to play in - who does the coach choose?  The guys who are all away?  Or does he trust his ability to again unearth his International team from mostly home based players?

I mean his current favourites didn't need to be from the best sides in the Pro12 league to prove themselves.  Do the future favourites have to come home to International duty from one of the supposedly Better Quality leagues?  And is that belief expressed by Roberts actually his assertion that he's still comfortable nobody back home will take his International spot?

At the moment nobody really can challenge him in the gameplan Gatland wants and likes to play, Jack Dixon could if gets a crack and allowed to develop. If and we know its a big IF, the gameplan changed then he may not be so irreplaceable.

Article amended.
The full interview should be on iplayer I guess.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25338511

Scrumpy wrote:So is Jamie Roberts right to claim that not being Wales based is not a crucial issue?

I have to be honest from a players point of view I agree with him, the standard of rugby will only make these players better IMO, although they will play more games and are more likely to pick up injuries but a rugby players career is only a short one for most so why not cash in and let your bank balance grow.

But, and it is a BIG but, playing abroad (not so much England) in France for example does limit the chances of fans getting to see their hero's up close on a weekly basis and that can only be a negative.   


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25338511

How does he know?????

He has only been there a few months during which time he has played just a handful of games for Racing and NO games for Wales! I am sure that the salary he is getting is more than enough reward for missing the whole Autumn series, I am equally sure he is having a great time living and working in Paris.

But its not just about Jamie. Team Wales will inevitably suffer when the squad get together from all over Europe, battered and bruised from a long hard campaign with their clubs. And what about the long suffering Welsh supporters, and the young kids who want to see their hero's playing at their local pitch.

Its quite clear now what Roger Lewis's strategy is; to grind the Regions into bankruptcy. Let the benefactors and other local creditors take the pain so that the WRU can start again with their own puppet pro sides. Roger will continue to pick up his bankeresque bonuses, whilst the loyal supports suffer watching their favourite teams wither and die.