Leinster v Northampton

First topic message reminder :

Team in an hour or so. Not expecting too many changes.

Kind of anti climactic really. What can we do to them that we didn't last week?

Big crowd of 45000 or so might help.

NH should be seriously fired up after that shaming at home, and Leinster would have to be a LITTLE bit complacent. Expecting the scores to be a lot closer.

Hopefully we are pro enough to get the job done. Any win will do. we don't need anything fancy.

George North looked really good in the centre for the Saints today. Do you think he may end up playing their or Wales?

Cracking defence by Saints in the last 2/3 minutes. Leinster came so close in the closing minutes though.

But still a great game.

Well played both teams.

It is a shame some one had too lose.

Brilliant win northampton. Congrats.

A deserved win.

English teams in the H cup next year.

IRFU - get it sorted!

Another nail biting finish. Gutted for Leinster, but congrats to Northampton on the win, and for some pride restored.

Fantastic game. Saints were well deserved winners, although Leinster had their chances they were second best today.

Yep - it would have unbelievably hard on Saints had they lost that to a last minute try, they were the better team.

majesticimperialman wrote:George North looked really good in the centre for the Saints today. Do you think he may end up playing their or Wales?

Cracking defence by Saints in the last 2/3 minutes. Leinster came so close in the closing minutes though.

But still a great game.

Well played both teams.

It is a shame some one had too lose.

maj,

I think we would all like to see him get some gametime there, hes big enough to play the Roberts role Gatland likes, how did Saints use him today?

bedford - I didn't think they used him anywhere near enough as he caused a lot of problems for the Leinster defensive line when he did get the ball, apart from getting isolated from his support once or twice.  I suppose a lot of the lack of ball he got came down to the problems Saints had at half back, which in the end nearly cost them the match.

Artful_Dodger wrote:bedford - I didn't think they used him anywhere near enough as he caused a lot of problems for the Leinster defensive line when he did get the ball, apart from getting isolated from his support once or twice.  I suppose a lot of the lack of ball he got came down to the problems Saints had at half back, which in the end nearly cost them the match.

AD,

Cheers for that like said I think most of us Welsh fans would like to see him given a run there at some stage and if JD is out for the 6 Nations then who knows, though a centre pairing of Roberts and JD wouldn't be the hardest to work out what they going to do lol.

Brilliant win by Saints today.

Hopefully that'll curb Barnes Irish Provinces lovein.

Thought North looked a natural at 13 and that youngster (Collins?) looked at home on the wing. I still think Saints are a top quality fly half away from being the complete side but they're close, very close! Their pack is monstrous and so many of those forwards are multi talented and inter changeable. Lawes was my MoM. Organised a class lineout, brought the Saints powerful maul in to the game and was everywhere making gainline tackles. Carried well as well.

Leinster looked a little off the pace today, still had those flashes of lethality but just couldn't string enough together. Fitz and Kearney both suspect in defence and positionally.

North looks more natural in the centre for me. Out wide he can be isolated and caught out defensively, like Lomu he struggles to turn being such a big man. He has really good hands though and picks great lines - he can run through people and around them - his potential in midfield is scary so I'd prefer he's left on the wing!

Congrats Saints. Two years in a row. Saints fans must be a frustrated bunch. Capable of performances like that but only after getting hammered at home the week previous!!

Well done lads

rodders wrote:North looks more natural in the centre for me. Out wide he can be isolated and caught out defensively, like Lomu he struggles to turn being such a big man. He has really good hands though and picks great lines - he can run through people and around them - his potential in midfield is scary so I'd prefer he's left on the wing!

From a neutral to this game its good to read the reports about North in the centre, out of interest why was he playing there today, was it a concious selection or forced due to injuries etc?

That's how you come back from an embarrassment.
Great win, thought the Leinster fans let themselves down though booing Myler when he was kicking; they usally have a good reputation for respecting the kicker. I mean lets be honest Myler wasn't going to kick them anyway.
Great win for Northampton, North at Centre?
Could be a good option for us int he future, thanks Northampton   

bedfordwelsh wrote:

rodders wrote:North looks more natural in the centre for me. Out wide he can be isolated and caught out defensively, like Lomu he struggles to turn being such a big man. He has really good hands though and picks great lines - he can run through people and around them - his potential in midfield is scary so I'd prefer he's left on the wing!

From a neutral to this game its good to read the reports about North in the centre, out of interest why was he playing there today, was it a concious selection or forced due to injuries etc?

Injury I think Bedford. He had a very good game up against O'Driscoll I thought, looked like a guy who's played there all his life. The pack gave the saints backs a good platform though.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:George North looked really good in the centre for the Saints today. Do you think he may end up playing their or Wales?

Cracking defence by Saints in the last 2/3 minutes. Leinster came so close in the closing minutes though.

But still a great game.

Well played both teams.

It is a shame some one had too lose.

maj,

I think we would all like to see him get some gametime there, hes big enough to play the Roberts role Gatland likes, how did Saints use him today?

I thought he played well in the centre to be honest. I also think Saints used him more of a deterrent, he certainly mad the Likes of O'Driscoll and Darcy think twice....Normaly they (Odriscol Darcy) usualy rise above being fritend by any one...Like as been said by others he coulds either step around players, or in his case run straight through them.

Jhamer25 wrote:That's how you come back from an embarrassment.
Great win, thought the Leinster fans let themselves down though booing Myler when he was kicking; they usally have a good reputation for respecting the kicker. I mean lets be honest Myler wasn't going to kick them anyway.
Great win for Northampton, North at Centre?
Could be a good option for us int he future, thanks Northampton   

Irish fans boo the kicker never thought that never happened in Ireland, well it doesn't if you read all on here.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Jhamer25 wrote:That's how you come back from an embarrassment.
Great win, thought the Leinster fans let themselves down though booing Myler when he was kicking; they usally have a good reputation for respecting the kicker. I mean lets be honest Myler wasn't going to kick them anyway.
Great win for Northampton, North at Centre?
Could be a good option for us int he future, thanks Northampton   

Irish fans boo the kicker never thought that never happened in Ireland, well it doesn't if you read all on here.

Think the fans were booing the decision. If you listen again you should find that the fans were protesting at some incident just prior.

it generally doesn't but you had 50000 odd in the Aviva. this wasn't 16500 hardcore fans that you would get at the RDS. and even then there are muppets everywhere

Munchkin wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Jhamer25 wrote:That's how you come back from an embarrassment.
Great win, thought the Leinster fans let themselves down though booing Myler when he was kicking; they usally have a good reputation for respecting the kicker. I mean lets be honest Myler wasn't going to kick them anyway.
Great win for Northampton, North at Centre?
Could be a good option for us int he future, thanks Northampton   

Irish fans boo the kicker never thought that never happened in Ireland, well it doesn't if you read all on here.

Think the fans were booing the decision. If you listen again you should find that the fans were protesting at some incident just prior.

Yes they were but they were still booing prior to that and it was done on more than one occasion. Not fair really, it's one thing that really peeves me off.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Jhamer25 wrote:That's how you come back from an embarrassment.
Great win, thought the Leinster fans let themselves down though booing Myler when he was kicking; they usally have a good reputation for respecting the kicker. I mean lets be honest Myler wasn't going to kick them anyway.
Great win for Northampton, North at Centre?
Could be a good option for us int he future, thanks Northampton   

Irish fans boo the kicker never thought that never happened in Ireland, well it doesn't if you read all on here.

You're right - it is the welsh who keep going on about it.

Jhamer25 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Jhamer25 wrote:That's how you come back from an embarrassment.
Great win, thought the Leinster fans let themselves down though booing Myler when he was kicking; they usally have a good reputation for respecting the kicker. I mean lets be honest Myler wasn't going to kick them anyway.
Great win for Northampton, North at Centre?
Could be a good option for us int he future, thanks Northampton   

Irish fans boo the kicker never thought that never happened in Ireland, well it doesn't if you read all on here.

Think the fans were booing the decision. If you listen again you should find that the fans were protesting at some incident just prior.

Yes they were but they were still booing prior to that and it was done on more than one occasion. Not fair really, it's one thing that really peeves me off.

Not a fan of that behaviour myself, but then it just takes a few to let down everyone else. The booing at the Munster game today was so bad it was funny. They (Perpignan) boo everything  

On the subject of North in the center, I only caught the last twenty minutes as I was finishing an essay, but he gave a lovely little pop pass that fixed O'Driscoll and gave Pisi lots of space to make a break.

On the whole booing ,Just too let everyone know most if the prople in the stadium have I'm sure barely ever been to a rugby match let alone a Leinster game.

During the kicks there were loads of us tellibg the crowd to hush.

I was very impressed with North's defence. His scanning of the field, and then his tackling was superb.

Great ending to the game. Leinster unlucky but great defense from the Saints.


What a difference a week makes! Northampton played a clever game and Leinster never really got going. They turned down plenty of kicks at goal which could have come back to haunt them but it won't matter now.

Munchkin wrote:

Jhamer25 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Jhamer25 wrote:That's how you come back from an embarrassment.
Great win, thought the Leinster fans let themselves down though booing Myler when he was kicking; they usally have a good reputation for respecting the kicker. I mean lets be honest Myler wasn't going to kick them anyway.
Great win for Northampton, North at Centre?
Could be a good option for us int he future, thanks Northampton   

Irish fans boo the kicker never thought that never happened in Ireland, well it doesn't if you read all on here.

Think the fans were booing the decision. If you listen again you should find that the fans were protesting at some incident just prior.

Yes they were but they were still booing prior to that and it was done on more than one occasion. Not fair really, it's one thing that really peeves me off.

Not a fan of that behaviour myself, but then it just takes a few to let down everyone else. The booing at the Munster game today was so bad it was funny. They (Perpignan) boo everything  

Very true, when i'm down at the Scarlet's and I hear people booing, it really annoys me i just want to boo at them. The french are the worse for it (booing) and the Irish are usually the best (not booing), the RDS, Thomand and Ravenhill always a great crowd. Just made a bad mood at the Aviva I thought.

Being a Saints fan, once Leinster got to our 5m line in overtime i was convinced we were going to lose it (just like the munster game a few years back). The fact that we didn't and then stole the LBP was the icing on the cake. I really hope this game is a turning point for us as some were doubting whether Mallinder was up for taking us that next step to frequently challenge some of the big european clubs.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:On the whole booing ,Just too let everyone know most if the prople in the stadium have I'm sure barely ever been to a rugby match let alone a Leinster game.

During the kicks there were loads of us tellibg the crowd to hush.

Thing is the Welsh get stick for it and to be fair, the MS probably attracts more day on the razz supporters more than anyone. No difference really is there. I ain't accusing you personally of doing it, just saying.

rodders wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

rodders wrote:North looks more natural in the centre for me. Out wide he can be isolated and caught out defensively, like Lomu he struggles to turn being such a big man. He has really good hands though and picks great lines - he can run through people and around them - his potential in midfield is scary so I'd prefer he's left on the wing!

From a neutral to this game its good to read the reports about North in the centre, out of interest why was he playing there today, was it a concious selection or forced due to injuries etc?

Injury I think Bedford. He had a very good game up against O'Driscoll I thought, looked like a guy who's played there all his life. The pack gave the saints backs a good platform though.

Late move due to injury, I heard sky say (I'm sure)

True Risca I suppose there is no real excuse and it was really annoying me. I will say at least there were loads of fans telling them to shush.

For what its worth I think a large part of it was to do with the awful performance of the ref. It really makes you appreciate how good Owens is.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Jhamer25 wrote:That's how you come back from an embarrassment.
Great win, thought the Leinster fans let themselves down though booing Myler when he was kicking; they usally have a good reputation for respecting the kicker. I mean lets be honest Myler wasn't going to kick them anyway.
Great win for Northampton, North at Centre?
Could be a good option for us int he future, thanks Northampton   

Irish fans boo the kicker never thought that never happened in Ireland, well it doesn't if you read all on here.

You're right - it is the welsh who keep going on about it.

Like I said, probably cos they get a lot more stick for it than anyone, especially off some Irish guys who did used to get a bit uppity over booing.

Liam wrote:I was very impressed with North's defence. His scanning of the field, and then his tackling was superb.

Think the Aus game showed he can naturally defend at 13, judging by how he felt he had to cut in all the time to protect Owen Williams

Jhamer25 wrote:Very true, when i'm down at the Scarlet's and I hear people booing, it really annoys me i just want to boo at them.  The french are the worse for it (booing) and the Irish are usually the best (not booing), the RDS, Thomand and Ravenhill always a great crowd. Just made a bad mood at the Aviva I thought.

Thats it in a nutshell- games in the Aviva are always big occasions, marketed as such and the ratio of people who go to rugby all the time and have this great rugby tradition ingrained in their psyche and people who are new to the game and just having a day out is a lot more even than a normal provincial home game.

As an Irish fan, it really pains me and embarrasses me whenever I hear the fans of an Irish side booing the kicker. It really hurts. But to be profitable we have to get the kind of fans who are likely to boo the kicker into the grounds. It's a sad, sad thing that we can't have popularity and tradition at the same time.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:True Risca I suppose there is no real excuse and it was really annoying me. I will say at least there were loads of fans telling them to shush.

For what its worth I think a large part of it was to do with the awful performance of the ref. It really makes you appreciate how good Owens is.

True rugby supporters always do that. We get cheat chants at the Dragons sometimes (which correctly get criticised), but always get self policing at our games. It's hard to not get too wound up watching a game sometimes, isn't it.

That Saints performance was definitely closer to what they've been showing in the AP this year. In the forwards at least. Foden, Wilson and G.Pisi are still very much being missed in the backs. Without them they don't have much of a plan B outside of physicality and structured play centred on the set-piece.

LeinsterFan4life what was wrong with the ref? Interpretation? When I found out that a Frenchman was reffing I was pleased. Despite Owens clearly being one of the best I never feel like we (saints) get the rub of the green with him. Like I said Interpretation?

Colt I'm sure he was bad for both sides. I haven't watched it on tv yet so I guess I shouldn't really have a go at him.

Btw the away NH fans were great. Very vocal.

Good glad to hear that. Wish I could have gone but alas no. Shame for us last week at FG as it was not what we have been watching all season. Today was much closer to the mark.
I somehow think that Saints always fair better with a French ref than an Irish or Welsh ref. it was a nice surprise to not feel disadvantaged (incorrectly) at the start. Still, not sure many predicted this result. I didn't! Performance was everything. For me the result was not important, but I'll take it!

Well we knew they could do, as they had previously done against Scarlets and Ulster... Now Leinster. Great turnaround. Well done Saints, still strikes me as a bit odd how you get these results though.

Great game, and a huge turnaround from Saints.

I thought the refereeing was fine, though Leinster were very lucky not to concede a penalty try and a yellow early on for the barge on Collins. But a Top 14 ref uses a different interpretation from a Rabo or AP ref. To be honest, I am always uncomfortable when a Rabo ref refs a Rabo team in the HEC, even when the nationality is different and the ref is as good as Owens. There is an advantage from facing a referee who regularly referees in your league as you are more likely than the other team to understand his interpretation. It would be better to have a referee from the neutral league for each game.

Poorfour I totally agree about the refs and have been saying this for a long time. Has nothing to do with bias but all to do with interpretation!

Agree completely on the refs thing PoorFour.

Much better display by Saints. That's the team we've been seeing in the AP this season. Leinster looked a little slow out the blocks, maybe they expected to win again.

On the subject of refs it seems a bit odd that J.P. Doyle (Irish) referreed the Perpignan v Munster game. Seems a bit odd to me & I would have felt disadvantaged before the game if I was a Perpignan supporter.

Nb. I'm not suggesting he was biased but it doesn't sit right with me?

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:On the subject of refs it seems a bit odd that J.P. Doyle (Irish) referreed the Perpignan v Munster game. Seems a bit odd to me & I would have felt disadvantaged before the game if I was a Perpignan supporter.

Nb. I'm not suggesting he was biased but it doesn't sit right with me?

Doyle is RFU affiliated, I guess the fact he is Irish might mean something but he wasn't in any way biased yesterday in fact I think he found it hard to keep things under control at times and at one stage I thought he was going to blow Munster off the park. Even for the penalty try for Munster he gave USAP four or five attempts to get it right where another ref would have given the penalty try sooner. I would say for the French teams its no different if they get a British referee when playing a British team.

Leinster surely missed SOB and Healy yesterday...no ability to get over the gain line...

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:On the subject of refs it seems a bit odd that J.P. Doyle (Irish) referreed the Perpignan v Munster game. Seems a bit odd to me & I would have felt disadvantaged before the game if I was a Perpignan supporter.

Nb. I'm not suggesting he was biased but it doesn't sit right with me?

We have this situation in the Rabo every week (away team has a home ref - mainly for Irish v welsh games). We just get on with it. Sort of...   

Good morning,
As a Saints fan I am obviously delighted with the result.  I expected a good response, but this was terrific.  A lesser team than Leinster would have crumbled under all the pressure Saints applied spending all that time on the Leinster line.  Leinster are so technically strong and mentally tough.  Against almost anyone else, the match could have been over by the three-quarter mark, if not sooner.  Shows exactly why Leinster are multiple champs.

The big difference from last week was the physical and technical approach Saints brought to the breakdown and the set-pieces.  Clearly the better team in those parts of the game.  

Saints big players played a big game, as they should.  Hartley, Lawes, Day, Wood, Manoa, Clark, North.   Collins and Elliott, the 19 and 21 year old wingers showed they are a threat.  Strangely, Collins, after putting Leinster under massive pressure never saw the ball again.  The young replacements Ethan Waller and Mike Haywood played like seasoned pros and were part of that inspiring last minute defensive stand.  

The pressure Saints applied conversely took pressure off Ken Pisi at fullback.  He was mostly OK, but is still a winger out of position.

All in all, the type of mentally tough match I expected to see from Saints.  Matches like this are why Rugby is such a terrific sport.

Notch wrote:

Jhamer25 wrote:Very true, when i'm down at the Scarlet's and I hear people booing, it really annoys me i just want to boo at them.  The french are the worse for it (booing) and the Irish are usually the best (not booing), the RDS, Thomand and Ravenhill always a great crowd. Just made a bad mood at the Aviva I thought.

Thats it in a nutshell- games in the Aviva are always big occasions, marketed as such and the ratio of people who go to rugby all the time and have this great rugby tradition ingrained in their psyche and people who are new to the game and just having a day out is a lot more even than a normal provincial home game.

As an Irish fan, it really pains me and embarrasses me whenever I hear the fans of an Irish side booing the kicker. It really hurts. But to be profitable we have to get the kind of fans who are likely to boo the kicker into the grounds. It's a sad, sad thing that we can't have popularity and tradition at the same time.

From what I can tell with Irish fans, you're great at respecting the kicker, so long as the kick isn't the match deciding one. Think Halfpenny in 2012, Cruden a few weeks ago and so on.

Congrats Doc. I'm sure you're happy will the response, but I'm equally sure you'd prefer they did that last week . It seems this has happened for the Saints a few times. Any idea why?

Regarding the refs, Doyle has nothing to do with Ireland, just as Walsh and Small have nothing to do with New Zealand. IMO the biggest advantage you get from a ref is familiarity. So the English clubs are used to Doyle and his interpretation! where as the Irish teams aren't.

Hammer,
I wish I knew the answer.  Saints mental makeup is certainly strong enough, because we saw that yesterday and also last year in Belfast.  

Has to be something in how the coaching staff prepare the team.  They almost seem to be better understanding the needs of a match after playing a team once before.  Maybe that's why they are doing pretty well in the Premiership, they know the teams already?  

Mallinder does make good adjustments in the second match.  We saw the lineup changes for the second of the two Ulster matches last year and again against Leinster this year.  But that is only part.  There is a mental/emotional aspect that I still can't grasp.  Weird, eh?

I agree about the referees.  So much of it is being familiar with how a referee calls a match.  I thought yesterday the referee was quite good.  I thought he could have called Leinster for bringing down the mauls a couple of times, and I thought when Manoa dropped the ball around the 50 minute mark it clearly went backwards and not forward as it was called.  Killed another promising attack (but I thought that just a bad break - no ref can see everything 100% of the time).  I also liked the TMO discussions in French.  They didn't say anything different than in English, but it made sense: No confusion.