Andre Villas Boas sacked by Tottenham

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I am actually quite surprised by that, backed him heavily in the transfer market and the season hasn't been a massive disaster apart from the two poor results against City and Liverpool.

Not sure what manager is available that they plan to replace him with. Unless Levy plans to spend heavily breaking somebody out of a contract.

Depends, the reactions you gave caused many a titter. Didn't realise you were so sensitive, I must hold back on these matters of national tragedy from now on.

Arsenal didn't "like it up em". Referees were as fair to them as they were to anyone else. To suggest refs were acting in favour of other teams purposefully is laughable. Teams were just working with refs for one or two games a year against one specific team?

His career didnt die. He still plays for a team on a bucket of money. Its unfortunate, yes, but it was bad luck. It wasnt physical assault. The heroes that all Arsenal players have been for all time that have never laid a finger on anyone are admirable, I'll give you that.

But I am also sure you are completely aware of other sides that lost players to poor challenges. I presume you hate Shaun Wright Phillips for ending Dean Ashton's career?

I asked you a question name another team that lost two stars to catastrophic leg breaks like that within such a short span in the league, and you chose to side step the issue with more deflection and derision. Creating bogus straw men like me claiming that no Arsenal player ever laid a finger on anyone.

You fully well know it doesnt happen often. I don't see what you think it proves though? Players got sent off didnt they? Its like saying "tell me another team Osama bin Laden has worn a replica shirt of? Clearly proves that Arsenal support the taliban".

I just think its ridiculous that you claim it was a complicit part of refereeing to allow teams to try and hurt Arsenal. Dont you see that?

I think it was poor tackles but unfortunate for Arsenal. If it had been many in one game, fine. But considering it didnt happen week in week out and hasnt continued to happen, and career ending injuries have happened to other players of other teams, it really doesnt add up to being a "break their legs" every game mentality.

It proves nothing. Especially if youre going to go on the attack if people reply facetiously on an internet forum. I didn't realise I had to address you in a completely serious manner at all times.

Shawcross' was a horrendous tackle. Sadly, those happen on occasion. More unfortunately, it badly injured Ramsey. Taylor was more mistimed, I could show you many examples of similar tackles that have merely caused bruising. I feel for both men, to some extent, but Arsenal aren't serial victims. I'm sure you didn't even no SWP ended Ashton's career. Hes a little winger so why would anyone think of him injuring someone. It is the risk of these sports.

1. The book on playing Arsenal for years was to "get up in them"

2. Arsenal lost numerous players in quick succession to catastrophic leg breaks and leg injuries

3. During this period the refs basically let these teams do it and since then there has been a concerted move to limit those type of challenges once the damage was done.

Maybe I would believe it was just bad luck if every pundit didn't come out and basically say that to beat Arsenal you basically had to get up in them and kick them around the pitch (in not so many words). Funny, how the team everyone said you had to rough up to win was the team that suffered multiple catastrophic leg breaks in short succession. Just bad luck I suppose.

socal1976 wrote:1. The book on playing Arsenal for years was to "get up in them"

2. Arsenal lost numerous players in quick succession to catastrophic leg breaks and leg injuries

3. During this period the refs basically let these teams do it and since then there has been a concerted move to limit those type of challenges once the damage was done.

Maybe I would believe it was just bad luck if every pundit didn't come out and basically say that to beat Arsenal you basically had to get up in them and kick them around the pitch (in not so many words). Funny, how the team everyone said you had to rough up to win was the team that suffered multiple catastrophic leg breaks in short succession. Just bad luck I suppose.

Dear me...everything's a conspiracy with you.

Are MI5 after Giroud yet?

1. There is physicality in football.

2. Two. Against the rules and both were punished.

3. Never seen anything to indicate the refs let things purposefully go nor that they got treated any differently to any other side.

Over zealous players unfortunately injured two Arsenal players, but you'd be hard pushed to find a footballer happy to ruin another man's career, especially these days. Thatcher and Keane both were ridiculous, and only one of those was planned.

It happens, people get very badly injured on occasion. Considering how rarely players who have been far more physical than Shawcross or Taylor have broken peoples legs then I would say it was bad luck.

shawcross and taylor were both sent off for there challenges, hows that ref allowing teams to "get it up" arsenal

every team has had a serious injury to players, smith and irwin being two united players i can remember. how your team deals with these situations is often a test of how mentally tough they are, arsenals excuse making and every body is trying to bully us attitude showed that that arsenal team didnt have it. may i also remind arsenal fans that under wenger you broke all kind of disciplinary records. dont remember arsenal fans whinging as much when adams, vieira and keown were booting people round the park

compelling and rich wrote:shawcross and taylor were both sent off for there challenges, hows that ref allowing teams to "get it up" arsenal

every team has had a serious injury to players, smith and irwin being two united players i can remember. how your team deals with these situations is often a test of how mentally tough they are, arsenals excuse making and every body is trying to bully us attitude showed that that arsenal team didnt have it. may i also remind arsenal fans that under wenger you broke all kind of disciplinary records. dont remember arsenal fans whinging as much when adams, vieira and keown were booting people round the park

Yes I was thinking that as well. Those days of Adams, Viera, Dixon, Keown, Bergkamp, and Ljungberg putting the boot in never happened, did it Socal?

The tackle from Ryan Shawcross on Aaron Ramsey personifies what is wrong with the discipline in English football. Since when did the beautiful game warrant challenges of that ugly nature? No game should incorporate such challenges, and it seems certain broadcasters, officials, managers, and players alike have forgotten what is acceptable in football.

Shawcross left the Britannia stadium in tears after his horrific tackle left Aaron Ramsey with a double fracture in his right leg. Stoke are known for their no-nonsense style of play and there is a line, but Shawcross crossed it. And he has done it before, even against ex-Arsenal player Francis Jeffers—his tackle broke Jeffers’s ankle.

On Nov. 1, 2008, Arsenal faced Stoke at the Britannia stadium. Three Arsenal players were injured but one tackle stood out due its blatant maliciousness.

The ball is going out of play while Emmanuel Adebayor is shielding the ball. Shawcross aggressively stands on Adebayor’s ankle with the clear intent to cause injury. Shawcross succeeded as Adebayor could not continue and missed three weeks of action. Wenger was rightly furious, yet the main consensus was that Adebayor’s high boot, a challenge earlier on in that match, warranted the tackle from Shawcross.

On Jan. 24, Arsenal faced Stoke in the FA Cup. Arsenal lost 3-1 in a tightly-contested game in which Stoke deserved their win. However, one tackle stood out and warranted a booking, yet the incompetent Martin Atkinson allowed the foul from Shawcross on Cesc Fabregas to go unpunished. There was no attempt to play the ball; Shawcross was late and only attempted to cause injury.

On too many occasions the English media have turned a blind eye to acts of extreme physicality against Arsenal, giving pathetic excuses such as “Arsenal are too fast.” To counter this argument, how about this: “The opposition is too slow”.






As Shawcross cried he undeservingly received sympathy and support. His malicious tackle left the career of one of the most talented youngsters in the world hanging in the balance. Shawcross’s tears were a realisation of what damage his “acceptable” physical play can do.

This is where Tony Pulis is to blame. The manager is responsible for his players and the way his team plays the game of football—such as how hard his players go in for challenges.

When Pulis spoke to Sky, he was full of guilt. He quivered and pathetically misconstrued what Wenger said. Wenger spoke about the horrendous challenge not how well he knew Shawcross, yet Pulis tries to sway the argument to cover up his player’s sickening tackle. Pulis knows he is partly to blame and has now seen the damage that his side’s “acceptable” physical play has done.

Peter Walton missed two penalties yesterday. Had the first been given, Aaron Ramsey may have finished the game. Walton had no choice but to send off Shawcross, but if Walton had taken action against Ricardo Fuller and his overzealous and late challenges, this may have discouraged the rest of the Stoke team to make such dangerous tackles. Considering Alex Song was booked for far less it shows blatant inconsistency on Walton's part not to book Fuller.

Such is the “culture of the English game”; tackles such as Shawcross’s will only get a three-match ban, whilst Adebayor gets a four-match ban for far less. Ironically, Adebayor was sent off for violent conduct against Shawcross.

The FA must change the length of punishment of malicious tackles. In the space of four years, three Arsenal players have been severely injured due to malicious and needless tackles. The only way that this may change is if a leading English player such as Wayne Rooney or Steven Gerrard receives a leg breaking tackle; the FA may realise that the thugs who are ruining players and the English game as a whole should be banned longer than a measly three matches.

Shawcross is a malicious player. This tackle was not a one-off, and he has done this before. Too many people in football are myopic and it is shown by the acceptance of Shawcross’s challenge on Aaron Ramsey.

Why shouldn’t Ryan Shawcross be banned for the rest of the season? He has done this before and obviously has not learned his lesson. Yet, he is rewarded with an England call-up. The FA needs to think long and hard about how they deal with malicious players.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/353893-why-shawcross-is-malicious-pulis-walton-and-fa-must-share-the-blame

Nice account of how coach's encouraged this type of behavior against the more technically gifted Arsenal and how the FA and the refs were complicit in the whole thing.

So basically because Arsenal players in the early 2000s committed some hard fouls it is ok for the Stoke's of the world to break the legs of Arsenal players in 2010. The Ramsey break was reflective of a reckless player, a manager who encouraged that type of play, and referees who let numerous hard fouls, cards, and penalties go in that and other contests till whoops Ramsey gets his leg sawed off.

“Everyone thinks ‘We are playing Arsenal, we have to go in hard on them’, and I have no problem with the contact game,” the Arsenal captain said.

“If opponents think that is the best way for them to beat us, no problem, but when you put your foot half a metre high on someone’s leg, that is not right.

“It is not the first time this season we have seen challenges like this, but until someone breaks their leg no-one speaks about it. It has happened twice to me this season and I was lucky I did not get badly injured.

“I am sure he [Shawcross] did not want to break Aaron’s leg, but the tackle was dangerous. It was terrible. I am sure he wanted to win the ball, but when your foot is that high only he knows what he was trying to do.”

http://footylatest.com/fabregas-accepts-no-malice-from-shawcross-but-tackle-was-dangerous/13017

I'm pretty sure thats a beautifully balanced and completely unprejudiced article

Social do you have conclusive proof that referees allowed players to deliberately injure Arsenal players?

You're hardly the first team to receive this type of treatment and you won't be the last.

“It looked to me [like it should have been a red card] but I have to look at it again as I am maybe not completely objective when it comes to Ryan Shawcross.” – Arsene Wenger.

All the outrage over Michael Owen’s (lame) punch on Mikel Arteta may well have obscured a far graver incident late on in Arsenal’s 1-0 win over Stoke on Saturday.

Arsenal fans were outraged that the tackle below did not feature on Match of the Day with some relief that it was shown on Goals on Sunday.

Whichever way you look at it, it is a horror show from Shawcross. For those who are unaware, Shawcross broke Aaron Ramsey’s leg in six places in February 2010.

Referee Chris Foy handed out a yellow card in the 89th minute with the Emirates baying for a red.

Ryan Shawcross’ shocking challenge on Laurent Koscielny is on the video below. (Via Arsenal List.) The best Tweets on the incident are further down.

http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/ryan-shawcross-shocking-challenge-on-laurent-koscielny-arsenal-1-stoke-0/

Another of Shawcross' greatest hits on Arsenal players this time on Laurent Koscieleny, oh yeah but he cried in front of the media and the Arsenal fans were mean to him so the media feels bad for that little victim Shawcross

hampo171 wrote:Social do you have conclusive proof that referees allowed players to deliberately injure Arsenal players?

You're hardly the first team to receive this type of treatment and you won't be the last.

Not what I am even alleging. This type of rough stuff was encouraged against Arsenal because Arsenal is known as a very technical team it is basically the book of how to play them. And the refs are cowards a card here maybe or there but they just aren't willing to send off half the fcuking team so basically they let the aggression go till it legs get snapped.

Liverpool lost Djibril Cisse and Jamie Carragher to leg breaks in 2004.

There is no conspiracy against Arsenal, hard tackling is a tactic not used exclusively against Arsenal and the two leg breaks were unfortunate, not deliberate attempts to hurt Arsenal's players. Shawcross has been wrongly vilified I feel for the Ramsey tackle. Only an Arsenal fan would claim there is some kind of agenda against the team, it's just pure fantasy.

socal1976 wrote:

hampo171 wrote:Social do you have conclusive proof that referees allowed players to deliberately injure Arsenal players?

You're hardly the first team to receive this type of treatment and you won't be the last.

Not what I am even alleging. This type of rough stuff was encouraged against Arsenal because Arsenal is known as a very technical team it is basically the book of how to play them. And the refs are cowards a card here maybe or there but they just aren't willing to send off half the fcuking team so basically they let the aggression go till it legs get snapped.

You are making a mountain out if a mole hill. I'm sure Arsenal have resorted to underhand tactics, I can remember Keown and Adams kicking players for 90 minutes did you complain when they didn't get punished?

Yes his 3 match ban was a real signal of intent by the FA. Basically it was like handing out a hunting license to the Shawcross type players in the world. Who needs a conspiracy when the actions of the media who feel so bad for a player who snapped two legs in 3 years and the FA who give out 10 match bans for a friendly Suarez nibble and 3 match ban for reckless hit on a player that nearly ended him. They should have banned him for at least 10 games, minimum if not the rest of the season.

Persecution Complex Socal?

liverbnz wrote:Funny you should mention Arsenal's 'poor luck' compared with AVB having a number of fortunate penalties. Last season, up until week 30 Arsenal had more 'incorrect' decisions in their favour than any other team in the league according to the debatable decisions guys. Decisions that gained you 9 more points than you deserved.

So as I said, everyone gets good and bad decisions.

http://www.debatabledecisions.com/english-premier-league-tables

Very interesting.

socal1976 wrote:Yes his 3 match ban was a real signal of intent by the FA. Basically it was like handing out a hunting license to the Shawcross type players in the world. Who needs a conspiracy when the actions of the media who feel so bad for a player who snapped two legs in 3 years and the FA who give out 10 match bans for a friendly Suarez nibble and 3 match ban for reckless hit on a player that nearly ended him. They should have banned him for at least 10 games, minimum if not the rest of the season.

It was a reckless challenge, not a malicious one. He was crying afterwards!

Socal are you trying to insinuate Shawcross deliberately broke Ramsey's leg?

Nothing could be further from the truth. Except of course the "everyone boots Arsenal" conspiracy.

Fair play to Spurs!

Crimey wrote:

socal1976 wrote:Yes his 3 match ban was a real signal of intent by the FA. Basically it was like handing out a hunting license to the Shawcross type players in the world. Who needs a conspiracy when the actions of the media who feel so bad for a player who snapped two legs in 3 years and the FA who give out 10 match bans for a friendly Suarez nibble and 3 match ban for reckless hit on a player that nearly ended him. They should have banned him for at least 10 games, minimum if not the rest of the season.

It was a reckless challenge, not a malicious one. He was crying afterwards!

He is reckless and he broke another player's ankle a couple years before, had a malicious challenge on Koscieleny as well that again went virtually unpunished a year later. Oh he get a yellow plz. Shawcross and stoke should have been punished, not to mention his high tackle on Adebayor as well. The guy is a menace and everyone coddled and enabled him. Should have lost the season in my mind, I mean ramsey lost 2 years of his career. A 3 match ban is almost comical for that challenge. FA showed how much they care about reckless challenges and protecting players. Meanwhile Suarez gets 10 for a nibble. Suarez should have broken his leg then they might not of even sent him off.

Duty281 wrote:Socal are you trying to insinuate Shawcross deliberately broke Ramsey's leg?

Nothing could be further from the truth. Except of course the "everyone boots Arsenal" conspiracy.

Who cares it was reckless and his reckless behavior had consequences, dire ones. If you drive your car recklessly and break someone's leg can you cry your way out of it?

socal1976 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Socal are you trying to insinuate Shawcross deliberately broke Ramsey's leg?

Nothing could be further from the truth. Except of course the "everyone boots Arsenal" conspiracy.

Who cares it was reckless and his reckless behavior had consequences, dire ones. If you drive your car recklessly and break someone's leg can you cry your way out of it?

I suggest you look up the difference between "accidental" and "deliberate" in the dictionary.

Tim Sherwood named until end of the season.

Good on Spurs, giving a young Englishman a managerial job. Better than seeing another foreigner in charge. Good luck to Sherwood.

Duty281 wrote:

socal1976 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Socal are you trying to insinuate Shawcross deliberately broke Ramsey's leg?

Nothing could be further from the truth. Except of course the "everyone boots Arsenal" conspiracy.

Who cares it was reckless and his reckless behavior had consequences, dire ones. If you drive your car recklessly and break someone's leg can you cry your way out of it?

I suggest you look up the difference between "accidental" and "deliberate" in the dictionary.

I think in law school they taught me the difference between negligent and reckless behavior. They are not the same thing. Before you lecture me on intent understand that I work every day with the concept of intent and the difference between negligence and recklessness is something you might want to brush up on. Recklessness is deliberate and intentional disregard, and different than negligence or accidental. Like I said drive your car at 200 miles an hour and break someone's leg and see if you can cry your way out of it.

socal1976 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

socal1976 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Socal are you trying to insinuate Shawcross deliberately broke Ramsey's leg?

Nothing could be further from the truth. Except of course the "everyone boots Arsenal" conspiracy.

Who cares it was reckless and his reckless behavior had consequences, dire ones. If you drive your car recklessly and break someone's leg can you cry your way out of it?

I suggest you look up the difference between "accidental" and "deliberate" in the dictionary.

I think in law school they taught me the difference between negligent and reckless behavior. They are not the same thing. Before you lecture me on intent understand that I work every day with the concept of intent and the difference between negligence and recklessness is something you might want to brush up on. Recklessness is deliberate and intentional disregard, and different than negligence or accidental. Like I said drive your car at 200 miles an hour and break someone's leg and see if you can cry your way out of it.

Drive my car at 200MPH?

I'd need to get a car first.

Anyway, I think it's perfectly clear that Shawcross didn't deliberately break Ramsey's leg and to cry conspiracy over it is, at best, ignorant, and, at worst, libellous.

It's a game of football Socal, these things happen, I suppose you think Taylor deserved a longer ban for his tackle on Eduardo too?

Socal man I understand you're frustrated atm, but there's not a chance Shawcross deliberately did that.

Anyways I'll veer this back on topic, and say Spurs are a joke. I agree with sacking AVB, but not to replace him with some doofus who's basically done this by duping the media into backing him. Levy is a joke of a chairman

Sherwood   

If this goes well its luck over judgement. And it is likely to go badly. I think he'll get them beating some of the lower teams but smashed by better ones. Adebayor will run out of steam, he loves proving a point but once he's done that he rarely does anything else.

If anyone thinks Shawcross did that tackle on purpose, they are a complete idiot. 

It's a man games, people can get injury's like the one Ramsey got, get over it.

NickisBHAFC wrote:If anyone thinks Shawcross did that tackle on purpose, they are a complete idiot. 

It's a man games, people can get injury's like the one Ramsey got, get over it.

Nobody claimed he purposely wanted to injure Ramsey but that he is reckless and that FA basically gave him nothing but a slap on the wrist. 10 match ban in my opinion.

socal1976 wrote:

NickisBHAFC wrote:If anyone thinks Shawcross did that tackle on purpose, they are a complete idiot. 

It's a man games, people can get injury's like the one Ramsey got, get over it.

Nobody claimed he purposely wanted to injure Ramsey but that he is reckless and that FA basically gave him nothing but a slap on the wrist. 10 match ban in my opinion.

So this should be a 10 match ban, right?

Duty281 wrote:

socal1976 wrote:

NickisBHAFC wrote:If anyone thinks Shawcross did that tackle on purpose, they are a complete idiot. 

It's a man games, people can get injury's like the one Ramsey got, get over it.

Nobody claimed he purposely wanted to injure Ramsey but that he is reckless and that FA basically gave him nothing but a slap on the wrist. 10 match ban in my opinion.

So this should be a 10 match ban, right?

Great ball win there. No complaints from The Freek over that tackle.

I agree but the moment both feet leave the ground he has lost complete control of the tackle, were he to have made contact it then becomes a reckless challenge. Nothing wrong with it at all but on the flipside we shouldn't ostracise those who mistime their tackles.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I agree but the moment both feet leave the ground he has lost complete control of the tackle, were he to have made contact it then becomes a reckless challenge. Nothing wrong with it at all but on the flipside we shouldn't ostracise those who mistime their tackles.

Totally agree.