Groves v froch II

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Was fortunate to meet tony bellew tonight I asked him what he thought about the fight and he said there was nothing wrong with the refs decision and that another 10 secs would have seen a ko. He hunted also that the second fight is pretty much signed for next June/ July as he's fighting on the undercard happy days

Didn't one journalist out of over 100 have Bradley winning. The fight is about as obvious a robbery as you are likely to see. It was so blatant.

It wasn't a "robbery" - you're one of those idiots who comes out with bull like "schooled" when someone wins a fight. As I said, I think Manny won, but to put this in the same league as Walcott/Louis and Lewis vs Holyfield is either a complete wind up or complete idiocy.

A straight face ? What are you talking about , if we're going to take any notice of the P4P rankings then surely Pacquiao is top 5. He did soundly beat Bradley around 118 out 120 media, judges and ex pros scored the fight clearly for Manny from ringside. He sums up what P4P is, a smaller man who is able to beat bigger foes with usual consummate ease. To have Wlad above him is laughable the man can't rattle off more than 2 punches before grabbing for dear life.

Cheers Rodders

I don't see how you can have Pacquiao in a top 5 when there are people who are currently operating at a higher level for more titles and with more dominance.

I swear, the guy beats Rios and you're all claiming he's back to his best?

Pacquiao was a shoe-in in 2009. I'm pretty sure you're ignoring the fact he was flattened by Marquez and left the decision open against Bradley.

I'm not saying he didn't win. I'm saying that it shouldn't have been so open to interpretation. Rodders, if you're telling me Wlad is a bad boxer then there really is no hope.

JabMachineMK2 wrote:It wasn't a "robbery" - you're one of those idiots who comes out with bull like "schooled" when someone wins a fight. As I said, I think Manny won, but to put this in the same league as Walcott/Louis and Lewis vs Holyfield is either a complete wind up or complete idiocy.

Cool it son, you'll do yourself some damage.

118 out of 120 scored it to Manny. It really wasn't close at all.

The Bradley decision really isn't open to interpretation. Couple of halfwit journalist got it wrong and that's about it. You're never going to get 100 percent agreement because some people are just a bit dim.

I'm not saying Wlad is a bad boxer but as a P4P fighter he isn't higher than Manny IMO , a guy who goes life and death with Sam Peter and Lamont Brewster isn't going to get points over Manny. It's all hypothetical anyway so it doesn't matter.

Cheers Rodders

No way is Wlad above Pacquiao.

I have Bradley and Pacquiao interchangeable, there's a little triangle with Marwuez but I think Tim has a slightly stronger resume recently.

JabMachineMK2 wrote:I don't see how anyone can have Manny inside a top 5 and still have a straight face. Manny did not "soundly beat" Bradley. I feel it was a contentious decision but if you're telling me you can't see why Bradley may have taken it then I'm assuming you watched it with the commentary on where they describe punches that never happen. I think Manny won, don't get me wrong, but Bradley went to war with Prov on purpose to show he could do it and still won - also taking out Marquez more convincingly that Pacquiao. Silly having a man who has lost 2 of his last 4 fights in a top 5 where the others have far superior records.

Yes CW, Wlad above Manny. I think you may be on drugs. Is Manny the current undisputed champion in his weight class? Has Manny been undefeated for 10 years? Has he completely and utterly outclassed every person he's faced in the last 10 years?

Well damn. I must be a "comedian"

Yep, a comedian

One thing I would like point out about Froch v Groves is that Groves did not win. He was on his way to winning, but was stopped prematurely. He would have had 3 and a half rounds to complete, and IMO, would not have made it out the 9th. Not denying he was winning, but winning and won are not the same thing.

I think Groves would have made it out of the ninth personally. There was such a grit about Groves, a desire and a look of a man who was just looked like he refused to be stopped. there was still quite a solid look about Groves too personally and having watched the fight close to about 15 times I really think Groves would have won. Mind you he may have gotten shafted on the cards.

AlexHuckerby wrote:I think Groves would have made it out of the ninth personally. There was such a grit about Groves, a desire and a look of a man who was just looked like he refused to be stopped. there was still quite a solid look about Groves too personally and having watched the fight close to about 15 times I really think Groves would have won. Mind you he may have gotten shafted on the cards.

Almost certain if it went to the cards. He was a dead man walking in that fight.

Yeah, I gave Froch 2 rounds, though he was winning the ninth, gave him the 8th and the 5th, but gave Groves the rest and one by 2 points which by my card meant Groves just had to stand up.

I gave Froch the 7th as well as the 8th and 5th, on his way to winning the 9th possibly 10-8, there's no certainty how the fight would have ended. Could feasibly have ended in decision or KO for either or even a draw.

The cards in themselves aren't that bad, I can actually understand them but it's the stoppage that makes them look worse than they actually were. 77-73 after eight rounds is reasonable enough, could even argue the 2nd round was up for grabs because so little happened. Groves won the 1st and the 6th big and was landing the majority of the eye catching punches but he was letting himself get outworked a fair bit too.

But the punches weren't landing from froch and I thought Groves won the 7th big too,, Groves landed some terrific punches in the 7th and really didn't take an awful lot back. 80% of frochs punches were landing on Groves' arms, and it looked almost like 50% of groves' right hands were landing bang on.

Have to agree with Alex here. I've been struggling to make a case for Carl in the 7th as well, in fact I thought it was another clear Groves round in the bank. Carl was falling short or being made to miss with the jab just about every single time. He looked tentative and Groves was countering him at will. I really thought that basically all of the effective, accurate punching in that round came from Groves.

I don't know, Froch had amazed a lot of people by standing up to that barrage in the sixth, and perhaps the fact that he wasn't getting as badly banjoed in the seventh helped give the impression that he was starting to get a foothold, but for me he was never really in that round.

Still, even if you see it differently, that'd still make it 5-3 to Groves in rounds, with one of them a 10-8. And if it's hard (from my point of view, anyway) to be that kind to Froch, God only knows how kind you'd have to be to him to have it only 76-75, as two of the judges did. I think those two cards were shocking, personally. For me, arguing that the fight was dead even and on an equal footing if you take out the knockdown is bordering on the insane!

Just watched the 7th again and still think it's a Froch, got the same impression I did when watching it live that of Groves quickly wilting, he looked physically weak and not as relaxed as he was. Froch was marching him down in the knowledge of what was happening. Groves landed a couple of decent right hands but nothing of significance while Froch was landing in decent flurries, some good inside work. For work rate and effective aggression it's a Froch round, landing a couple of rights and a couple of jabs isn't enough to win a round when you're on the back foot.

The flurries weren't landing and Groves' quick counters were though... Groves' jabs were landing flush and he landed an absolute corker of a right hand with around 45 seconds to go which jolted Froch down to the ground. Froch had a couple of flurries after that and only got countered and hit nothing put George's arms, I just can't see it going any other way unfortunately mate.

The flurries were landing though, you throw a six punch combination and land twice that's still two landed punches. Groves wasn't countering an awful lot, he landed two clean right hands, a cuffing right and a few jabs, was a fairly low tempo round accentuated by Frochs flurries. That they were forcing Groves onto the back foot not throwing much is effective in itself.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree then Hammersmith mate, I've watched the fight plenty of times now and I have to be honest I thought the 7th was one of the most dominant rounds aside from Round 1 and 6. Fair enough though if thats what you see.

I think I gave Froch the 5th and the 8th, although the 5th was also debatable if my memory serves me correctly, I couldn't possibly give him any others.

Obviously the 9th doesn't count because it wasn't a completed round.

Read an article on Sky Sports News app this morning which hints at a rematch this year.

Hearn says he's speaking to Froch this week about his plans and says if they can manage the egos, the big demand for a second Groves fight could become a a realisation.

Hearn then goes on to say that he's in talks with Ward's people, GGG's people and Chavez Jr's people but then says he should have some good news for the British public in the coming weeks.

This tends to suggest that, as the British public are clamouring for a rematch, the other three fights don't look likely to come off any time soon whereas I believe Groves will step into the ring with Froch tomorrow.

If Eddie is smart he will make the rematch. Froch does not have many fights left and of the ones he has available that will net him big money this would seem to be the most winnable. If he does prevail he can then have the massive swansong fight against a Ward or GGG and ride off into the sunset with another loss but a lot richer.

Is rare you have a fight over here that can fill a football stadium or even come close, Eddie would be a fool not to do it if the opportunity is there. Also Groves did enough in the first fight and on the back of the stoppage to deserve another crack, irrespective of what Froch’s increasingly large ego may tell you to the contrary.

The only thing that stops this fight is Froch. Hearn would make it in a heartbeat, as would Groves.

Eddie Hearn has done a new iFilmLondon interview with Kugan where he discusses Froch v Groves 2 as well as plans for the other fighters in his stable.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NNW_XehCEn4

With Chavez Jr/Vera II being announced and Eddie undoubtedly trying to convince Carl not to get humiliated by Ward and crippling his earning potential in the process, it can't be much longer before they announce Froch/Groves II.

If the fights in England Eddie gets to promote it. That's how he makes the most amount of money.

Funny how Eddie was saying he was in deep negotiations with Chavez Jr's team only two days ago. Has he been telling fibs? Is he stringing Froch along?

Strongback wrote: Is he stringing Froch along?

Almost certainly, Froch’s ego does seem to be a bit out of control at the minute. He is probably not going to react well to being told, you scraped past Groves last time and are getting dogs abuse for your lack of grace in victory from all corners, this rematch needs to happen. He is also not likely to want to hear that Eddie’s confidence in him beating the likes of Ward, GGG or Chavez is pretty minimal at the minute so does not want to risk him.

Making it sound as if every effort was made to make such a fight but Groves is the only decent pay day available. Would personally call it massaging Carl’s ego rather than stringing him along.

Eddie is accutely aware that once Ward bursts Froch's bubble once and for all, both Eddie's and Carl's big paydays go right out of the window.

On a risk/reward basis, Groves II makes the most sense. Right or wrong, Groves is the only fighter who will be able to generate enough interest to fill a football stadium. If Haye/Chisora can be held at Upton park then Groves/Froch will easily fill another Premier League Football Ground.

DAVE667 wrote:Eddie is accutely aware that once Ward bursts Froch's bubble once and for all, both Eddie's and Carl's big paydays go right out of the window.

On a risk/reward basis, Groves II makes the most sense. Right or wrong, Groves is the only fighter who will be able to generate enough interest to fill a football stadium. If Haye/Chisora can be held at Upton park then Groves/Froch will easily fill another Premier League Football Ground.

Never seen the appeal of being at a football ground, not exactly conducive to a great view unless they do it in one penalty box and build temporary seating on the open pitch side.

Saying that I'd most definitely go and will pay decent money if it were at Wembley. Better still the Emirates as I can stumble home from there.

Don't see how Chavez beats him, just isn't very good. Ward is a foregone conclusion and GGG would be a massive unknown for me. Almost like Benn vs GMan for me in terms if how everyone is writing off the naturally larger more wild gunslinger.

Izzi wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:Eddie is accutely aware that once Ward bursts Froch's bubble once and for all, both Eddie's and Carl's big paydays go right out of the window.

On a risk/reward basis, Groves II makes the most sense. Right or wrong, Groves is the only fighter who will be able to generate enough interest to fill a football stadium. If Haye/Chisora can be held at Upton park then Groves/Froch will easily fill another Premier League Football Ground.

Never seen the appeal of being at a football ground, not exactly conducive to a great view unless they do it in one penalty box and build temporary seating on the open pitch side.

Saying that I'd most definitely go and will pay decent money if it were at Wembley. Better still the Emirates as I can stumble home from there.

Don't see how Chavez beats him, just isn't very good. Ward is a foregone conclusion and GGG would be a massive unknown for me. Almost like Benn vs GMan for me in terms if how everyone is writing off the naturally larger more wild gunslinger.

If they do a football ground then usually that is what they do Izzi, the ring will be on the center circle then temporary seats around it with perhaps the first 20 rows of the actual stands. It would need to be a ground which has high angles as anything other would result in the first few rows of the seating being obscured views. Upton Park & Stamford Bridge would be the most likely locations.

I think it's the only fight out there for Carl now; something which Hearn is well aware of and Carl simply does not want to accept. He gets taken to the cleaners by Ward and for me whilst GGG is an unknown quantity at the very very top, I have seen enough to believe he gives 'The Cobra' an absolute shellacking. His right hand is ferocious and his boxing skills vastly underrated. Seeing how easily Groves snapped his head back, one can only imagine what a jab, right hook will do if thrown by GGG.

owen10ozzy wrote:

Izzi wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:Eddie is accutely aware that once Ward bursts Froch's bubble once and for all, both Eddie's and Carl's big paydays go right out of the window.

On a risk/reward basis, Groves II makes the most sense. Right or wrong, Groves is the only fighter who will be able to generate enough interest to fill a football stadium. If Haye/Chisora can be held at Upton park then Groves/Froch will easily fill another Premier League Football Ground.

Never seen the appeal of being at a football ground, not exactly conducive to a great view unless they do it in one penalty box and build temporary seating on the open pitch side.

Saying that I'd most definitely go and will pay decent money if it were at Wembley. Better still the Emirates as I can stumble home from there.

Don't see how Chavez beats him, just isn't very good. Ward is a foregone conclusion and GGG would be a massive unknown for me. Almost like Benn vs GMan for me in terms if how everyone is writing off the naturally larger more wild gunslinger.

If they do a football ground then usually that is what they do Izzi, the ring will be on the center circle then temporary seats around it with perhaps the first 20 rows of the actual stands. It would need to be a ground which has high angles as anything other would result in the first few rows of the seating being obscured views. Upton Park & Stamford Bridge would be the most likely locations.

I think it's the only fight out there for Carl now; something which Hearn is well aware of and Carl simply does not want to accept. He gets taken to the cleaners by Ward and for me whilst GGG is an unknown quantity at the very very top, I have seen enough to believe he gives 'The Cobra' an absolute shellacking. His right hand is ferocious and his boxing skills vastly underrated. Seeing how easily Groves snapped his head back, one can only imagine what a jab, right hook will do if thrown by GGG.

Not convinced to be honest regarding GGG vs Froch, but I stand to be corrected. To say he splatters him is jumping the gun a bit, he's never mixed at elite world level - he could be taken apart like Bute. But hey, most fighters have that defining 'welcome to the elite level' fight that they win so I'm not exactly ruling it out.

Aside from knocking the ginger tool cold GGG would be my next preference. No. Cancel that. Froch knocking de gimp cold inside 4 seconds tops them all.

Izzi wrote:

owen10ozzy wrote:

Izzi wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:Eddie is accutely aware that once Ward bursts Froch's bubble once and for all, both Eddie's and Carl's big paydays go right out of the window.

On a risk/reward basis, Groves II makes the most sense. Right or wrong, Groves is the only fighter who will be able to generate enough interest to fill a football stadium. If Haye/Chisora can be held at Upton park then Groves/Froch will easily fill another Premier League Football Ground.

Never seen the appeal of being at a football ground, not exactly conducive to a great view unless they do it in one penalty box and build temporary seating on the open pitch side.

Saying that I'd most definitely go and will pay decent money if it were at Wembley. Better still the Emirates as I can stumble home from there.

Don't see how Chavez beats him, just isn't very good. Ward is a foregone conclusion and GGG would be a massive unknown for me. Almost like Benn vs GMan for me in terms if how everyone is writing off the naturally larger more wild gunslinger.

If they do a football ground then usually that is what they do Izzi, the ring will be on the center circle then temporary seats around it with perhaps the first 20 rows of the actual stands. It would need to be a ground which has high angles as anything other would result in the first few rows of the seating being obscured views. Upton Park & Stamford Bridge would be the most likely locations.

I think it's the only fight out there for Carl now; something which Hearn is well aware of and Carl simply does not want to accept. He gets taken to the cleaners by Ward and for me whilst GGG is an unknown quantity at the very very top, I have seen enough to believe he gives 'The Cobra' an absolute shellacking. His right hand is ferocious and his boxing skills vastly underrated. Seeing how easily Groves snapped his head back, one can only imagine what a jab, right hook will do if thrown by GGG.

Not convinced to be honest regarding GGG vs Froch, but I stand to be corrected. To say he splatters him is jumping the gun a bit, he's never mixed at elite world level - he could be taken apart like Bute. But hey, most fighters have that defining 'welcome to the elite level' fight that they win so I'm not exactly ruling it out.

Aside from knocking the ginger tool cold GGG would be my next preference. No. Cancel that. Froch knocking de gimp cold inside 4 seconds tops them all.

I'm guessing your not a fan of Groves?....Any particular reason why? Given the way Froch has conducted himself since the fight I think I'm right in saying your in the minority when it comes to wanting Froch to win a rematch.

Regards GGG; Matthew Macklin is no mug, a shown in his title fights with Sturm & Martinez...add in Ishida, a man who took out Kirkland and had never been stopped and I'm not sure I'm jumping the gun too much when I say he could very easily splatter Carl.

Granted he hasn't boxed on Carls level but he is clearly a lot better than Bute (whose frailties had already been shown long before the Froch fight). Froch has always looked awkward and been difficult to catch properly clean in the past; a comment made by former opponents Ward, Dirrel & even Kessler. The fact he was rocked so many times by Groves puts up warning signs for me that he is on the slide. He holds his left hand low and could barely move his head out of the way in his last fight...a combination of weaknesses which someone such as GGG will fully exploit!

owen10ozzy wrote:

Izzi wrote:

owen10ozzy wrote:

Izzi wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:Eddie is accutely aware that once Ward bursts Froch's bubble once and for all, both Eddie's and Carl's big paydays go right out of the window.

On a risk/reward basis, Groves II makes the most sense. Right or wrong, Groves is the only fighter who will be able to generate enough interest to fill a football stadium. If Haye/Chisora can be held at Upton park then Groves/Froch will easily fill another Premier League Football Ground.

Never seen the appeal of being at a football ground, not exactly conducive to a great view unless they do it in one penalty box and build temporary seating on the open pitch side.

Saying that I'd most definitely go and will pay decent money if it were at Wembley. Better still the Emirates as I can stumble home from there.

Don't see how Chavez beats him, just isn't very good. Ward is a foregone conclusion and GGG would be a massive unknown for me. Almost like Benn vs GMan for me in terms if how everyone is writing off the naturally larger more wild gunslinger.

If they do a football ground then usually that is what they do Izzi, the ring will be on the center circle then temporary seats around it with perhaps the first 20 rows of the actual stands. It would need to be a ground which has high angles as anything other would result in the first few rows of the seating being obscured views. Upton Park & Stamford Bridge would be the most likely locations.

I think it's the only fight out there for Carl now; something which Hearn is well aware of and Carl simply does not want to accept. He gets taken to the cleaners by Ward and for me whilst GGG is an unknown quantity at the very very top, I have seen enough to believe he gives 'The Cobra' an absolute shellacking. His right hand is ferocious and his boxing skills vastly underrated. Seeing how easily Groves snapped his head back, one can only imagine what a jab, right hook will do if thrown by GGG.

Not convinced to be honest regarding GGG vs Froch, but I stand to be corrected. To say he splatters him is jumping the gun a bit, he's never mixed at elite world level - he could be taken apart like Bute. But hey, most fighters have that defining 'welcome to the elite level' fight that they win so I'm not exactly ruling it out.

Aside from knocking the ginger tool cold GGG would be my next preference. No. Cancel that. Froch knocking de gimp cold inside 4 seconds tops them all.

I'm guessing your not a fan of Groves?....Any particular reason why? Given the way Froch has conducted himself since the fight I think I'm right in saying your in the minority when it comes to wanting Froch to win a rematch.

Regards GGG; Matthew Macklin is no mug, a shown in his title fights with Sturm & Martinez...add in Ishida, a man who took out Kirkland and had never been stopped and I'm not sure I'm jumping the gun too much when I say he could very easily splatter Carl.

Granted he hasn't boxed on Carls level but he is clearly a lot better than Bute (whose frailties had already been shown long before the Froch fight). Froch has always looked awkward and been difficult to catch properly clean in the past; a comment made by former opponents Ward, Dirrel & even Kessler. The fact he was rocked so many times by Groves puts up warning signs for me that he is on the slide. He holds his left hand low and could barely move his head out of the way in his last fight...a combination of weaknesses which someone such as GGG will fully exploit!

Just not a fan of Groves to be honest, apart from when he fought degimp when I supported him. Not exactly saying I like Froch as a person either, but always enjoyed watching him fight. Not sure what it is about Groves. It might just be the gingerness.

For me the bug question is whether he's on the slide or he came in underprepared and took him lightly. If he is on the slide I expect Groves to force a corner stoppage, if Froch comes back and was only at 75% then I expect him to stops Groves.

Rematch must be made though, providing it's in the countries best city by a mile then I'll be going. Months of build up would be better for us than FMJ v Pacman could produce if they made that fight now, would go as far as saying it would be just as big as any fights held on these shores.

owen10ozzy wrote:
I'm guessing your not a fan of Groves?....Any particular reason why? Given the way Froch has conducted himself since the fight I think I'm right in saying your in the minority when it comes to wanting Froch to win a rematch.

I would root for Carl, I don't think Carl has conducted him self any worse than Groves has... Who said he should only fight him or retire.

Owen,

Froch is awkward but certainly not difficult to catch cleanly. Old man Johnson was landing right hands for fun during their Super Six fight and as I have said before, without that chin of his, Froch isn't much more than a footnote in SM history.

Izzi,

For all Froch's faults (which are growing by the day it seems) lack of preparation is not one of them. What he lacks in technical ability, he compensates for with an excellent work ethic. You do Groves a massive dis-service by suggesting Froch must have taken him lightly or underprepared because it's not something Froch has done in the past and it's unlikely he decided to cut corners when he's close to securing his biggest payday before he hangs 'em up.

The fact is, Froch came up against a younger, technically better fighter on the night and he was the recipient of some favourable refereeing. You can be your bottom dollar that next time round, the referee is likely to far less likely to step in prematurely in favour of Froch.

DAVE667 wrote:Owen,

Froch is awkward but certainly not difficult to catch cleanly. Old man Johnson was landing right hands for fun during their Super Six fight and as I have said before, without that chin of his, Froch isn't much more than a footnote in SM history.

Izzi,

For all Froch's faults (which are growing by the day it seems) lack of preparation is not one of them. What he lacks in technical ability, he compensates for with an excellent work ethic. You do Groves a massive dis-service by suggesting Froch must have taken him lightly or underprepared because it's not something Froch has done in the past and it's unlikely he decided to cut corners when he's close to securing his biggest payday before he hangs 'em up.

The fact is, Froch came up against a younger, technically better fighter on the night and he was the recipient of some favourable refereeing. You can be your bottom dollar that next time round, the referee is likely to far less likely to step in prematurely in favour of Froch.

Meant mentally prepared. It is a possibility that the trash talk of Groves not being in his league 'could' have led him to turn up under prepared. Be it that he simply thought he would just walk through him and things unravelled pretty darn quick etc.

He was miles to hit than usual and looked 'off'. Be it on the slide or not in the right mindset neither I nor you know, which only adds to the spice for the rematch in my eyes.

And can also throw in Groves putting in what could be a once in a career performance - he's not exactly set the world on fire so far.

Point is there's lots of conundrums to judge the rematch on, and I'm on the side of the fence that Froch turns up, turns it on and is too much for Groves who will be a decent Darren Barker kind of fighter but who never enters the upper echelons of being mentioned a potential P4P top tenner fighter etc.

Whereas I think Groves has all the advantages. he knows he can hurt Froch, knows he's quicker, more elusive, fights well on the front foot as well as the back foot and I can see him giving Froch a real slap. Froch backs off, Groves tees off with right hands on him. Froch comes forward, he walks onto a right hand.

Maybe it WAS a once in a lifetime performance from Groves but I think it's something that will spur him on to even greater efforts this time round and Froch gets done inside the distance. He'll call for a rematch citing the fact that he gave one to Groves (whilst conveniently ignoring the fact that he was forced into it) but I think it'll be so one-sided, it will generate as much interest as a Froch/Ward rematch.

Froch retires and remains bitter that people still won't rate him above Calzaghe.

tunes666 wrote:

owen10ozzy wrote:
I'm guessing your not a fan of Groves?....Any particular reason why? Given the way Froch has conducted himself since the fight I think I'm right in saying your in the minority when it comes to wanting Froch to win a rematch.

I would root for Carl, I don't think Carl has conducted him self any worse than Groves has... Who said he should only fight him or retire.

I'm in for Froch.

DAVE667 wrote:Whereas I think Groves has all the advantages. he knows he can hurt Froch, knows he's quicker, more elusive, fights well on the front foot as well as the back foot and I can see him giving Froch a real slap. Froch backs off, Groves tees off with right hands on him. Froch comes forward, he walks onto a right hand.

Maybe it WAS a once in a lifetime performance from Groves but I think it's something that will spur him on to even greater efforts this time round and Froch gets done inside the distance. He'll call for a rematch citing the fact that he gave one to Groves (whilst conveniently ignoring the fact that he was forced into it) but I think it'll be so one-sided, it will generate as much interest as a Froch/Ward rematch.

Froch retires and remains bitter that people still won't rate him above Calzaghe.

Don't think he has all the advantages Dave. Froch knows if Groves cranks up the pace early he could gas later on (which I think he did to a degree as Froch was starting to shrug off his punches... Either that or Froch grew instant powers of recovery well above his natural levels, if that's possible). Groves also knows if it gets past halfway he can be on the end of something that will just keep coming at a time when he starts to wilt.

Chavez met a quicker, slicker boxer than him on the night and then battered him around the ring in their rematch. Lewis the same to Rahman etc etc - just providing examples that because one fighter held the aces in the first fight doesn't necessarily mean it transcends to the second fight.

Eddie, hurry up and get this one done please. Thanks

just providing examples that because one fighter held the aces in the first fight doesn't necessarily mean it transcends to the second fight.

However they tend to prove the exception rather than the rule.

Also firmly believe Groves will be aware of any potential stamina issues and box smarter than previously

I can't see GGG splattering Froch not in a month of Sundays, for as hard as he hits he's a fairly small middleweight. Moving up to face the most iron chinned fighter in the world, I simply can't see a stoppage, Froch is the more likely to score a knockout victory.

Can't teach an old dog new tricks and Reich's flaws are there for all to see, always have been. Until now though his chin has kept him in it and whilst Groves can iron out any issues, not sure I can say the same re Froch.

There it goes again, Reich=Froch. Flipping autocorrect.

*frog marches off to another site*

ozzy just backs any fighter who doesn't tell him to f off, which must be hard as he must be spending a lot of time picking up the names he's dropped.

seanmichaels wrote:ozzy just backs any fighter who doesn't tell him to f off, which must be hard as he must be spending a lot of time picking up the names he's dropped.

Which fighters have told me to f' off?

I'm backing GGG because I watched Froch last time out and saw enough of him to believe the chin which has dragged him through multiple fights: Ward, Taylor, Kessler twice, Pascal has diminished. Given the lack of fundamentals he has in terms of actual boxing ability when age catches up with him he is going to be ripe for the picking. Something which in my opinion is already happening and will only get worse.

It's funny because I seem to remember backing Maidana to beat Broner, Groves to do well in the Froch fight, Froch to hammer Bute inside 5 rounds...so my history for fight outcomes isn't all to bad to be fair. I've been one of Froch's biggest fans in recent times but not going to allow that to cloud my judgement on future fights.

If that was a diminishing chin I saw against Groves then so be it, it was still strong enough to be unbreakable once the second round started. Factor in Groves being a classier, younger, quicker and bigger fighter than Golovkin it's seem an odd prediction to me.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:If that was a diminishing chin I saw against Groves then so be it, it was still strong enough to be unbreakable once the second round started. Factor in Groves being a classier, younger, quicker and bigger fighter than Golovkin it's seem an odd prediction to me.

His chin was as you stay still strong enough to hold up as you say; but based on his last two fights can you really see it still being as tough next time out? No one has ever, ever had Frochs head rocking back the amount of times Groves did...and whilst some of that is down to Groves and how good he was that night...part of it was down to Carl's physical attributes diminishing. He looked old, lethargic and slower than ever...that was nothing to do with not being prepared..it was age, pure and simple.

I think Golovkins skills are vastly underrated; many seem to think he is just a puncher and he is far from that. He is clever, knows when to throw his shots and can put together some beautiful combinations. He's also not a particularly small middleweight, though he isn't huge either. On the one hand I keep hearing Froch isn't big enough to go up to 175...on the other Golovkin will be too small for him...I don't buy into that (I know you didn't say that Hammersmith...just saying some of the stuff I have heard).

Froch is big enough to move up but he makes 168lbs so comfortably there is no need to, for me it comes to natural strength, both Froch and Groves are immensely strong at the weight, I don't think Golovkin would be.

Golovkin has shown his skills against a pretty poor standard of opponent if we're honest and the simple reality is he hasn't produced a performance as good as Groves against Froch. As far as I can see Groves punches harder, GGG isn't really a devastating puncher, he's hurtful with every punch but he's not the one punch KO type so think he could struggle facing better and bigger opposition.