The Bottom ELEVEN

Well, as we have a top six thread, the bottom is as enticing a prospect as ever. There's no glory in it, but a relegation battle is great to watch from the outside (I remember those days).

Only one team has survived after being bottom at Christmas, and whilst Sunderland can take heart from getting past Chelsea in the League Cup, its not a great deal of use when you can't beat a fellow struggler at home a few days later.

There are plenty of teams who seemingly look too lazy to keep out of it. From 10th and Stoke downwards. Swansea surely have too much class, but Europa League and some injuries to key players have stretched the squad. Newcastle fans will sympathise at how that combination can make life dangerous.

Hull have ground it out in great fashion, but they do lack quality, especially up front. Villa are their usual inconsistent self, the youth playing a factor again. Norwich at times look god awful, but Hughton may find favour in going direct to Elmander and seeing how Hooper reacts.

Cardiff as a club are a mess and they lack quality. West Brom need to get someone new in charge and hope it works. Were Clarke's buys any good? Do they have anything to spend? Has the glory of one year of Lukaku put them steps back as they get over his absence?

My beloved are in the doldrums with a big injury list and god awful displays to go along with it. For 50 mins apiece at Norwich and Palace we were the worst team this league has seen so far. Carroll's return, Reid's fitness and some January acquisitions to save the season.

Palace have found some resurgence, but the new manager rub will fade and quality could tell. Pulis won't let them whimper away like Holloway was trying to; there's life in the old dog yet.

Fulham. A team full of luxury players that can be class and can be completely lost when they are needed most. Is Meulensteen a manager? Scotty Parker will do what he always has and fight for every last second, its kept teams up before.

And then its bottom at Christmas Sunderland. Poyet is at a loss currently as to why his team are playing so poorly. A touch worrying. He seems not to fancy Fletcher, but the guy will score goals. Many a club will hope to snatch him if they go down.

10 Stoke 17 -4 21
11 Swansea 17 0 20
12 Hull        17 -6 20
13 Aston Villa 17 -6 19
14 Norwich 17 -14 19
15 Cardiff 17 -12 17
16 West Brom 17 -5 16
17 West Ham 17 -8 14
18 Palace 17 -16 13
19 Fulham 17 -17 13
20 Sunderland 17 -18 10

What are our predictions?

The bottom 6 as they are seem to me to be likely to be the bottom 6 cometh the hour, although a Hull plummet isn't beyond the bounds of possibility. It is usually much more interesting than the top, but this year the table is is a bit like Natalie Portman and looks good at both ends.

My opinions only (and trust me they aren't worth a dime as any bet I put on instantly turns to merde!).

Sunderland - are appalling, can't see them climbing higher than 20th at the moment. Think Poyet might be a good appointment, but I worry that the ex UTD players may be sulking around thinking they're better than this and that the team may be a collective of individuals. Not sure if even cash could save them. Craig Cash might have the best chance!

Fulham - don't seem to have had the bump a new manager seems to give other teams. Jury out on Meulensteen as top job although spoken very, very highly of as a coach. Relegation scrap isn't for Berbatov but Parker will give his all regardless. Taraabt (I'm a QPR fan) thinks he's a top 3 in the world player, and simply isn't. Sulky little so and so, could harm the dressing room like he did with us (please, please keep him). Jury's out but think they will be 18/17 at the reckoning.

Palace - Unknown quantity under Pulis as the honeymoon is still in play. Gritty, ugly play to come methinks. Suits the situation better than the teams around them. Contender for 20th on squad (ex QPR players in there that I didn't think were good enough for top flight any more, but were in a terrible team/atmosphere at Loftus), but a siege mentality around the team has worked before and Stoke's early PL teams weren't exactly long on talent. Guess 19th though.

West Ham - Rock and a hard place for Samuel J Allardyce (with a made up J). Fans demand good silky attacking football, situation demands anything that keeps you up. Should be good enough on paper (blah blah blah cliche cliche) but always worry when a team shows a player the door for not being good enough, then brings him straight back. Unknown element could hold the key, and love him or loathe him, Andy Carroll could have a big part to play when (if?) he gets fit. Should stay up 15th.

West Brom - Some decent players but lacking a manager still. Good appointment and good honeymoon = up. Dithering and no reaction = down. Will certainly be hoping Boing Boing won't be a return to the division hopping days. 18/17.

Cardiff - Blue vs Red. Boardroom vs Dug Out. Malky getting his hide Tanned? Could disintegrate or could galvanise the players. I'd gamble on up this year and a difficult second season. But be careful what you wish for when you ask for the owner to bugger off before having money in the wings to replace. 16th.

Possible that 3 sets of stripey shirts could go. Has that ever happened before?

Of the rest Swansea are too good. Villa are too good. Norwich aren't as bad as the bottom 6 and Hull could do anything.

Now, as I know nothing cue Swansea,Villa and Norwich sliding out of the league while Palace and Sunderland surge...

Last day, last ditch connotations and calculators around the grounds? Yep. Reckless January spending? Somewhere. Ridiculous bid for ex Blackburn defender in Russia before selling him straight back after miserable failure? Oh, hang on that was us last year. Pah.

Away days to Yeovil, Bournemouth or maybe Millwall and Leyton Orient a possibility if they get it wrong though.

Bottom 3 i recon

18th Fulham
19th Sunderland
20th Palace

Going down:

18th - Hull (will soon sink like a stone)
19th - Cardiff (a bit like Blackburn, they're falling apart)
20th - Sunderland (just not good enough)

Palace, Cardiff & Sunderland

18th Hull
19th Sunderland
20th Crystal Palace

Bottom 6 come end of season.
 
15th Fulham
16th West Ham
17th Norwich
---------------------------------------------
18th Sunderland
19th Cardiff
20th Palace

I said in another thread that wins against those around you will be pivotal to the teams in the bottom half this year.

Fulham have the best record in that regard with 6, yet leak goals which is a worrying sign. Palace have gone 4-0-1 against teams from 10th down since Pulis took over and look the most solid even when playing against the likes of City, Chelsea etc.

Aston Villa whilst having undoubted quality in Benteke and probably a better squad on paper have the lack of experience which can cost a side in situations such as these. I question whether they will have the fight to turn around a bad run, something which they are on at the moment.

For me the bottom 6 will be something along these lines:

15th West Ham
16th Crystal Palace
17th Fulham
------------------------------------
18th Aston Villa
19th Sunderland
20th Cardiff City

Depends on fixtures (I.e Norwich's last 5 are horrible). But

I think us (Hull) signing 2 strikers will help, though we will need to pick up our away form, as most of our home games are against teams above us.

Villa are awful at home which could have a big say.

Fulham are either dire or good.

Sunderland have the quantity, but not quality on the squad.

Norwich needs the points know as there fixtures get steadily worse, and they won't want to needs to be getting the points at the end.

Cardiff are a mess, nd going back down may not be the worst thing as give the club time to sort it out, also think Solskjaer is a risk. Though I do feel he will become a top manager.

18- Villa
19- Cardiff
20- Sunderland.

West

Ha. We will be in the mix again.
 
But have 100% confidence we will stay up.
Not as worried this season as I was last season, despite our poor form, inexperienced players.
 
Tekkers will come good again.
The wins against teams around us is vital in deed.
 
Looking at the rest of our fixtures, I think we will get another 22 points, that will put us on 45 for the season.
 
So would be ok.
 
 
Dare I say that I would give everybody that goes on the premier league thread £50 if we go down.

I find it near impossible to call. I did a predictor and about 3 teams stayed up on goal difference.

I'm surprised that Palace's bright spell has still left them bottom. Sunderland too look like improving and then fade again and are only off the bottom on goal difference.

Cardiff lack quality all over the field, but mainly up front. I think teams will wisen up to them at home now and the bonus results will dry up.

I think our tough run of games near the end of the season might kill us. Quality is returning from the physio room and some is coming in with transfers, but we must win our big home games, equally not losing the important away trips.

Fulham are god awful, Norwich can be the worst team in the league when they put their minds to it and I really don't think the desire to play RVW helps.

Villa have enough in them to scrape away again, as do Hull who have a manager who will happily grind to survival and knows how to do it.

Swansea need their real quality to come back from injury. Without the best players they just look a bit weak willed. Stoke I think will have enough fight.

West Brom are the one I can't place. Is the appointment a good one? Their squad boasts a lot of players you'd be surprised to see relegated, but if Pepe Mel can't get the balance right then they could be in trouble.

Right this minute I'd go:

18 Sunderland
19 Palace
20 Fulham

But Cardiff, West Ham and Norwich are in real danger

We're going down, with our last 4/5 games (which we'll be lucky to get 1 point from tbh), we need about 17/18 pts from 12 games.

With our recent form (1 win in 10, none in 8) I think it's fair to say I'm not confident we're gonna pick up those points.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

Norwich can be the worst team in the league when they put their minds to it and I really don't think the desire to play RVW helps.

RVW is a good player, for me that can be seen. His movement is brilliant, and so is his touch. I can't comment on his finishing, he doesn't get any chances cos we can't create anything.

Just our manager seems to be trying to use him as a target man, WHEN HE ISN'T A FRICKIN TARGET MAN.

He's so starved of service it's untrue, we play inverted wingers who just cut in and shoot.

God it pains me so so much to see talent wasted. Round hole/square peg comes to mind

I think West Ham, Palace, and Cardiff will get relegated.  West Ham look awful I mean they have 11 goals put against them in back to back cup games they just can't stop anyone from scoring. Cardiff has had all the turmoil with managerial change and to me Palace just don't look like a premier league side.

20. west ham
19. Cardiff
18. Palace
17. Sunderland
16. Fulham
15. Norwich

Fulham always seems to do enough to stay up and I think they got enough players to get goals to just beat the drop. Sunderland looks a lot better under poyet and Adam Johnson is getting goals for them as they dismantled Fulham on the road.

Norwich
Cardiff
Sunderland
17.Palace
16. Fulham
15. Villa

West ham will pull them selves out of this mess.

Palace although bottom still have the best record against the teams around them over the last 11 games. Pullis is the factor not palace. Anyone with him would stay up.

Duty281 wrote:Going down:

18th - Hull (will soon sink like a stone)
19th - Cardiff (a bit like Blackburn, they're falling apart)
20th - Sunderland (just not good enough)

I'm happy to stick with this.

Duty281 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Going down:

18th - Hull (will soon sink like a stone)
19th - Cardiff (a bit like Blackburn, they're falling apart)
20th - Sunderland (just not good enough)

I'm happy to stick with this.

What still backing Hull to go down..

Quality outfit mate. yep only 6 from the bottom. But they are playing nice stuff. Cant see them losing it

Hull are brilliant, i said at the start of the season they would be fine. 

Huddlestone, Livermore and Davies really were great signings. I think they showed when you get promoted, don't do a Palace and bring in about 15 average players, bring in 5 or 6 CLASS players.

Working a treat for Hull, Steve Bruce is also showing he is still a decent manager.

all well and good if you stay up though Nick.

If you go down you lose the quality- They move on- or you are in a lower division where players dont want to play but are paid way to much money. HUll are not a QPR that can effectively sustain the drop for a couple of seasons.

You are also potentially dividing the Team- when you have 6 players on triple everyone elses wages.

BUt there are off course the positives and Hull deserve credit. However look at Cardiff.. Not working there is it

What i said is Palace brought in about 15 average players. 2 of whom didn't even make there 25 man squad! Dobbie who they spent a million on (cheers for that btw) and some random player.

Also players like Jimmy Kebe, that Forest lad, Jose Campana and more. Just were pointless and needless. 

Think palace may stay up. Cardiff, Fulham and West Ham is looking likely atm.

Yeah i think Holloway lost his mind after getting us up..

We bought to many players. It was crazy. Players that wernt needed..

He also felt guilty about this, realised his mistake to late and couldn't perform as a manager.

We should have only bought about 6 of the players we did and maybe gone for one more experienced signing

Before the season started i thought the 3 to go down were.
 
WBA
Cardiff
Palace.
 
Different know re Baggies, but they are in the mix.
 
This new manager could be good, or terrible.
I would'nt be surprised if the Baggies go down as the 'surprise' team.
 
Things change very quickly.

I still think Palace. Short of quality really.

Norwich need a change of manager, the quality is there but the results aren't.

I think I'd go with

Hull
Villa
Palace

Palace have the lowest value squad in the PL.

But we have the king of staying up in Pulis..

We are the underdogs. But there is something about Pulis that is so calming. There couldn't be a different manager after Holloway.

GSC wrote:I still think Palace. Short of quality really.

Norwich need a change of manager, the quality is there but the results aren't.

I think I'd go with

Hull
Villa
Palace

Hull is obviously a joke right?

Villa is an interesting one. Thoughts behind that one? They have looked poor recently, but they seem to be above the pack quite comfortably atm.

I don't think Hull are particularly good and I can't buy into Bruce as a PL manager.

I don't see Villa having enough without an inform Benteke. If Grant Holt is the answer I don't want to know the question as his form is shocking

While i'm not  afan of the Holt signing, i'll reserve my judgement till the end of the season.
 
He may score a few if Tekkers does'nt, could contribute well to the team.
 
Like the signing of Bertrand, will help in the defence.
 
Lambert says he is looking at bringing in 1 or 2 more, so will see who they are.
 
We're used to these dogfights.
The expreience of being in them will giude us to safety.

Funny that Hull are suddenly fantastic. They beat a poor fulham who looked bad against us when we had 10 men and about 3 first teamers.

Hull will grind it out to stay up, but it wont be pretty or impressive.

socal1976 wrote:I think West Ham, Palace, and Cardiff will get relegated.  West Ham look awful I mean they have 11 goals put against them in back to back cup games they just can't stop anyone from scoring.

I have no problem with anyone thinking we'll go down, we very well might, but we did just keep a clean sheet away at Cardiff and won a massive game still with a big lot of big hitters missing. There's fight in us yet

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

socal1976 wrote:I think West Ham, Palace, and Cardiff will get relegated.  West Ham look awful I mean they have 11 goals put against them in back to back cup games they just can't stop anyone from scoring.

I have no problem with anyone thinking we'll go down, we very well might, but we did just keep a clean sheet away at Cardiff and won a massive game still with a big lot of big hitters missing. There's fight in us yet

I hope they do stay up, West Ham is a big london club and have had a lot of injuries but I don't know they just don't impress but again at that level of the bottom teams in league there are a few candidates that don't impress.

Sunderland + Hull + Cardiff to stay up. Palace + Fulham + WHU to go down.

I would be very surprised if no London clubs go down. Bug it would make
me smile.

I think it will be three of Sunderland, Palace, Cardiff and Fulham. They all seem equally bad in their own way but if I had to pick one to survive, I'll say Palace. They have the manager and spirit to stay up but I don't think they have the quality unfortunately. Fulham are just dire and Meulensteen has already proven he hasn't got a clue and Sunderland are too inconsistent and if Fletcher goes to Celtic they will almost certainly go down. Cardiff are in turmoil and despite Ole's best efforts I don't see him succeeding at that club.

Well i for one have been very impressed with Hull this season. Playing good football, attacking with real intent and winning impressively e.g. Liverpool and Fulham at home. Not saying there an amazing side that will end top half, but they certainly won't go down.

I think your memory deceives you

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Funny that Hull are suddenly fantastic. They beat a poor fulham who looked bad against us when we had 10 men and about 3 first teamers.

Hull will grind it out to stay up, but it wont be pretty or impressive.

As a Hull fan I tend to agree. At times we have played impressively, but have generally grinded results out. Though Jelavic & Long will improve us no end (Hopefully), our strong point this season has been our defence and the fact we've set up to be difficult to beat
Home form has been good, but will need to drastically improve away. As apart from a couple our remaining home games are against teams above us, while we are away to the teams around below us.

Though Nick is right Huddlestone & particularly Davis have been great signings.

I noticed that, your home fixtures from now on look far harder than your away trips. And with the owner a second away from a strop, it wont be plain sailing to safety

Fulham, West Ham and Cardiff I think

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I noticed that, your home fixtures from now on look far harder than your away trips. And with the owner a second away from a strop, it wont be plain sailing to safety

True, but today highlighted why I think we may stay up, we play poorly and deservedly lose. Yet other than Norwich & Palace everybody below us lose or draw. We may be able to stay up due to the fact there are alot of poor teams in the league. And it could be more about them then us, if we can pick up the odd 3 points, and draw a few that should see us survive. But like I said really need to start performing away.

And just for the record, our chairman is mostly in a strop, he is a second away from taking his bat and ball home.

Thanks for the thread, Dolphin. Always find the muck and bullets of a relegation battle more engrossing than a contest to wish Champions League cash.

I suspect eleven teams at the moment would be content to settle for 17th place. Pretty amazing that only 6 points currently separate Cardiff propping up the table and Villa enjoying the dizzy heights of tenth (watch out for nose bleeds, Westy!   ). No one is yet cast adrift but so many are looking over their shoulder.

Especially hard to call this year but I'll suggest Palace, Cardiff and Hull are for the drop. Whatever happens, twists and turns between now and May guaranteed ....

My 3 for the drop are:

Palace - i think the lack of quality in the squad will show in the end. Pulis being there will mean they go down fighting though.

Norwich - In a big slump and with their last 5 fixtures being as hard as they are they've effectively only got 10/11 games to get the points. Too big an ask for a team on the slide.

WBA - Will changing the manager have enough of an effect? I don't think so. Don't see where they're going to get their goals from.

The 3rd place was between Fulham & WBA, but i can see Fulham scraping through. A lot of experience there, and they've got the firepower to score enough goals to keep them up.

Been a while since we were in top half. Feels good.

We play WBA next.
Just hope we can continue from saturday and play well at home.

This thread could still be titled ''The Bottom Eleven'' as no one there is safe yet. Fine wins for some of those teams yesterday but things can change so quickly again.

Just a few observations.

Villa looking reasonably comfortable in 10th spot but will be disappointed not to have reached the 30 point barrier which they would have done if they had held on to their half-time lead at Everton.

Thought Swansea were terrible in their match at West Ham - they are definitely going to need to up their game. The Carroll / Nolan combo was highly effective but surely the Swans should have seen it coming. Even if they couldn't stop Carroll winning the ball in the air, they could and should have been doing everything to prevent Nolan latching onto the lay offs. Shelvey resembled a table-football player with brains to match as he moved across the goal line and away from the near post which he was meant to be protecting for the second goal.

In contrast to my cyber mate Olly, I'm not qualified to comment in any detail on Norwich and their much slated manager. However, I did think they were unlucky not to pick up a point yesterday, based just on my MOTD viewing. An absolutely brilliant save from Marshall to deny Redmond an equaliser.

Fulham are looking poor and need a win soon. I don't see it coming next week at Old Trafford.

More twists and turns guaranteed ....

OK

Goal difference could be huge this season, and it also possibly shows us as much about how bad teams are as there positioning in the league

The lowest four are Palace,cardiff, norwich and of course Fulham.

However Palace have made good signings and are showing a recent form along with Sunderland that is head and shoulders above the others in the bottom half..

Cardiff have just made 3 brilliant signings as well.


Norwich have a very decent squad- players like Redmond and wolfy are up there and in fairness they only need to play a game... Snodgrass is a general.. He is full of fight and heart. I may not like him- but he is one hell of a trier...

Fulham- well I cant say much positive- this team is fav to go down.. No form, lost berba, Bad managemnet, poor GD, bottom in the PL..

West ham are on another level now that the business end is coming up and the last two games are pretty indicative of the fact they wont go down.. However Carroll will be out for 3 games. Putting them back in the mix.

Sunderland , stoke, Swansea and villa will get out of the battle for me..

That leaves west brom and hull- they do have a great gd though- infact the best alongside swansea in the bottom half - but they haven't progressed like many of the others in the bottom half. They have had the reverse season to Sunderland and palace, they are on the slide..

So to finish my heavily jumbled post.

Hull, West brom and fulham for the drop..

guildfordbat wrote:This thread could still be titled ''The Bottom Eleven'' as no one there is safe yet. Fine wins for some of those teams yesterday but things can change so quickly again.

Just a few observations.

Villa looking reasonably comfortable in 10th spot but will be disappointed not to have reached the 30 point barrier which they would have done if they had held on to their half-time lead at Everton.

Thought Swansea were terrible in their match at West Ham - they are definitely going to need to up their game. The Carroll / Nolan combo was highly effective but surely the Swans should have seen it coming. Even if they couldn't stop Carroll winning the ball in the air, they could and should have been doing everything to prevent Nolan latching onto the lay offs. Shelvey resembled a table-football player with brains to match as he moved across the goal line and away from the near post which he was meant to be protecting for the second goal.

In contrast to my cyber mate Olly, I'm not qualified to comment in any detail on Norwich and their much slated manager. However, I did think they were unlucky not to pick up a point yesterday, based just on my MOTD viewing. An absolutely brilliant save from Marshall to deny Redmond an equaliser.

Fulham are looking poor and need a win soon. I don't see it coming next week at Old Trafford.

More twists and turns guaranteed ....

We're in trouble Guildford. In real real trouble

Fulham look the only side doomed for me. Apart from them, everyone has a chance of survival .

Fulham do at least have a few nothing to lose games for Mitroglou to settle in.

Still, I think it's Fulham and Cardiff with anyone else from the bottom 10

Yeah i think Cardiff almost had to win yesterday's game, and with no disrespect to Norwich, there hardly a Chelsea or Man City. Still think they might be short.

I would love Palace to go down for obvious reasons, but i can't see it. Pulis will keep them up. Won't be pretty to watch, but it will be effective. 

Seen enough from West Ham, Norwich, Sunderland, Hull and Stoke for them to avoid the drop. West Brom though, keep an eye on them, i have a feeling they could be in big trouble.

I'd not realised how bad Norwich's fixtures are. Even foregoing the appalling finish, they seem to have games they'd really want to be at home sadly away this half of the season. The saving grace is that I think teams will stay up with around 36/37 points, so its not that many points they need to scrape out

I think Hull will be dragged right down. They've had a good run of home games in the first half of the season