Gatland for Lions coach 2017

Well Gatland went down under and brought home the goods, for the first time in 16 years. That is one great achievement for him and an equally great group of players from 4 Nations. He will be coaching Wales up until 2019, meaning he will be ready and available to step in and deliver once more in 2017. In my mind the greatest coaches in the NH are Kiwi so the single, logical choice for head coach is Warren Gatland, otherwise known as the Great Gats. Fact of the matter is Gats instrumented the first Lions series win in 16 years which boosts an already good CV on his part and would have been coaching in the NH by then for 15+ years giving him a great wealth of experience.

It ain't rocket science like, Great Gats will be the Lions head coach for the 2017 tour to his home land.

Silly really. Likely he will be in the contenders, but what if Ireland or England greatly outstrip Wales in the next three years?

Not saying that will happen, just saying lets wait and see what coaches are successful between now and 2016 before we jump to any conclusions.

But until then I think we can safely assume Great Gats is the man. Odds and advantages stacked heavily in his favour.

But England, Ireland or Scotland can have a great 3 years but that don't mean their coaches are as successful as Gats on the international stage or at club level not saying he's the best or greatest just he's most likely going be the top man come 2016 unless he gets sacked and Wales finishing last in six nations and going iut early in world cup but I would love to see a british guy in charge

Dai Young
O'Shea
Baxter
Townsend

Just a few names

Robbie deans would make a great lions coach

welshboii15 wrote:But England, Ireland or Scotland can have a great 3 years but that don't mean their coaches are as successful as Gats on the international stage or at club level

So if Stuart Lancaster wins a World Cup on home soil and adds a couple more Six Nations trophies to the cabinet at Twickenham, he won't be as successful? Maybe the exact opposite of that will happen, and England will be miserably poor over the next few years. I really don't know, I like to leave the conjecture to the economists. The point is, neither does anyone else. We have no idea who is going to be the best coach over the next few years and all we're going on is guesswork. There's a good reason why the job isn't allocated at the start of 2014.

Well, winning world cups at home is easy. So I'm not sure it's be that much of an achievement.

Betting on the next Lions' coach is like betting on the next Lions squad - pretty pointless. However, in the spirit of things my vote goes to Dean Richards, Geech, Eddie O'Sullivan, Jonno, or an outside bet on Micky Mouse.

Yes of course, i mean why wouldn't you want a winning coach to return. Caveat being he has left Wales.

Notch wrote:

welshboii15 wrote:But England, Ireland or Scotland can have a great 3 years but that don't mean their coaches are as successful as Gats on the international stage or at club level

So if Stuart Lancaster wins a World Cup on home soil and adds a couple more Six Nations trophies to the cabinet at Twickenham, he won't be as successful? Maybe the exact opposite of that will happen, and England will be miserably poor over the next few years. I really don't know, I like to leave the conjecture to the economists. The point is, neither does anyone else. We have no idea who is going to be the best coach over the next few years and all we're going on is guesswork. There's a good reason why the job isn't allocated at the start of 2014.

Adds a couple more? Your speaking as if he does that regularly . Only Great Gats does that sort of thing. We can safely assume Great Gats, who is the best coach in the NH and still will be by 2017, will be the Lions head coach.

A lot can happen before 2017.

Too right biltong...by then the lancaster and Schmidt could be likely candidates. I'd say there will be pressure to remove the Welsh kiwi alliance for the next one. If the fallout was as big as it was with a series win...imagine what a (likely) loss will bring. After 2005 who would want it anyway?

Taylorman wrote:Too right biltong...by then the lancaster and Schmidt could be likely candidates. I'd say there will be pressure to remove the Welsh kiwi alliance for the next one. If the fallout was as big as it was with a series win...imagine what a (likely) loss will bring. After 2005 who would want it anyway?

Was it fallout though, or just one green-eyed nation going through a moaning period over the BOD axe...

Doesn't really matter. People were unhappy aside from the Irish. The plus is Gatland knows nz rugby from bottom to top as a player or coach but with the transparency if the game these days its not a huge advantage.
Gatland will be extremely long in the tooth in terms of being a head coach and he's not exactly renown for his ability to be flexible. A fresh approach might be needed vs NZ.

I think this is a stupid post, fancy saying the Gatland will be the Lions coach next time around.

I noticed on another thread some Welsh fans are calling for Gatland to become "SIR" Warren Gatland.  That it self is nonsence in my mind.

Lets get the RWC out of the way first. see who is the best coach after that, best coach too coach the Lions that is. and lets not jump to conclusions.

My biggest concern with Gatland is his inflexibility to change.

Wales currently has one of their best groups of players since I have been following them, and yet he seems to be stuck in the same mindset and gameplan since 2008.

The game has moved on and very little has changed in the way Wales approach their game.

New Zealand especially will find Gatland's tactics predictable and with their ability to adapt their game Whomever is going to be the British and Irish Lions coach in 2017 is going to have to bring some fresh ideas and gameplans.

The question (and it is too early to answer that now) is who will be the best equipped?

Not sure if Hansen will be there in 17 either. He's been at the top of the game for yonks as well. They rarely send a side that troubles. The bringing of four nations who don't play with eachother regularly gets thoroughly exposed in NZ so they end up with a side perhaps even is 5% better than the best individual side.

Maj why is Gats as coach ridiculous? Just because its too soon? He's the last series winning coach so I would have thought currently the favourite. And he's expressed a strong interest.

None of the current coaches have neither the experience nor the knowledge of nz rugby that gats has so it would presently be a big call to go with someone just for the sake of 'something fresh' no matter what happens next 3 years. Gats would just about have to self destruct.

Vern Cotter. Club success, style of play, experience coaching in New Zealand, knows the Crusaders players, relationship with Joe Schmidt (as things stand you'd be mad not to try tempt him into the attack coach position for the next tour) and he will have had 2 years coaching Scotland by that time with his contract due to expire at the beginning of that season.

The next Lions coach could be onto a hiding to nothing though. Gatland has his tour victory, will he want the job when the time comes and New Zealand are still top of the food chain?

I think there's a very good case for Martin Johnson, though I don't think it will happen. He's not a serving international coach, and his old mates from 2003 have all retired from international rugby. With only one series to focus on, there's little temptation to slip back into conservatism. He also knows more about winning in New Zealand than just about any other candidate.

It'll never happen though. They'll pick Gatland. He'll pick however many of his Wales squad have some chance of being fit enough to start, the All Blacks will win the series but if we're lucky there will be enough minor injuries to force some un-Gatlandish selections early enough for the games to be competitive.

majesticimperialman wrote:I think this is a stupid post, fancy saying the Gatland will be the Lions coach next time around.

I noticed on another thread some Welsh fans are calling for Gatland to become "SIR" Warren Gatland.  That it self is nonsence in my mind.

Lets get the RWC out of the way first. see who is the best coach after that, best coach too coach the Lions that is. and lets not jump to conclusions.

  Rich coming from you.

Why shouldn't Gats be knighted? Jimmy Saville received a knighthood for annoying lots of young women in the BBC studio, so go figure.

Taylorman wrote:Doesn't really matter. People were unhappy aside from the Irish. The plus is Gatland knows nz rugby from bottom to top as a player or coach but with the transparency if the game these days its not a huge advantage.
Gatland will be extremely long in the tooth in terms of being a head coach and he's not exactly renown for his ability to be flexible. A fresh approach might be needed vs NZ.

Considering Gats is a Waikato lad, do you think he'll go for the Chiefs brand of rugby? That could beat the ABs, then again, so could 'gatlandball' . Who else wants to see more Gatlandball in 2017?

I suspect Gatland will be an attractive option for any future Lions Committee. he ran a tour with no significant scandals and one which, by and large, pleased the sponsors. He also presided over a win, which helps sustain a Lions brand seemingly always up for reconsideration every four years. He has now played a major part in two tours, which makes him the most experienced Lions coach after McGeechan (and currently followed by the likes of Andy Robinson, Rowntree and Howley).

Other candidates may present themselves and I hope they do. However, all of them will be a step into the unknown by comparison, and the committee may not care to take a risk if Gatland's credentials remain intact for another four years.

I suspect the other candidates will also be Kiwi's.

Gat's wont play the Chiefs brand unless he learns it. Its only been the Chiefs brand since Dave Rennie and Wayne Smith introduced it the last couple of years.

Cotter might be an option but will he be up to speed with the NH players by 2017- he'll have a tough enough job with Scotland. Same with Schmidt to a lesser degree as he has been with Leinster. Lancasters the only candidate that looks like he'll have the right stuff by then and having experienced a win vs NZ as head coach already that must go in his favour.

In fact I would suggest he's the best man for it. Gats I don't think is visionary enough to mastermind a series win vs the AB's. I reckon Lancaster very well could be by then.

Jury isn't even out for Cotter, hasn't he won one Top 14 title with Clermont and choked in several other KO games? Now I know either competition isn't easy to win... But this put guys like Schmidt in a position to have a good career coaching international rugby. Ireland rugby and it's set-up is similar to NZ rugby, which could also work in his favour. I do wonder if he's learnt a lot from the NZ and Aus games though.

I think Lancaster is a great coach, but not sure if he has the components to be one of the best in this hemisphere yet. Surely if he was that great he could help lead England to winning 6 Nations tournaments. He's won versus NZ and Aus but I'm not sure if that would get him as much recognition as winning the 6N.

Gats has been in the mix for years and done it all in rugby, almost. Like you say, he also knows the ins and outs of NZ rugby. IMO, he certainly has his eye on the 2017 Lions tour. If he won a series he'd be considered an absolute legend in both hemispheres, don't you think?
   Interesting point about the Chiefs. I have to admit that before they made a Super rugby final they were pretty unknown. I remember them back in the Super 12 days and they were pretty inconsistent, able to put 50 points past some teams but still finish in the bottom half of the table. A lot of credit has to go to guys like Rennie for turning them into a champion team. Do you also think players like Muliaina also played a vital role in their transformation?

Biltong wrote:My biggest concern with Gatland is his inflexibility to change.

Wales currently has one of their best groups of players since I have been following them, and yet he seems to be stuck in the same mindset and gameplan since 2008.

The game has moved on and very little has changed in the way Wales approach their game.

New Zealand especially will find Gatland's tactics predictable and with their ability to adapt their game Whomever is going to be the British and Irish Lions coach in 2017 is going to have to bring some fresh ideas and gameplans.

The question (and it is too early to answer that now) is who will be the best equipped?

Spot on Billtong.

Again the questionb will be raised is how do you get a totally neutral coach, all coaches will have their favourites or in tight calls go with the players they know.

Gatland is comfortably the front runner at the moment. Wales have won back to back 6 Nations titles, were comfortably the pick of the 4 nations at the last World Cup and, last but not least, he coached the last winning Lions series hammering Australia in the final decider and playing great rugby in the process. Were we picking a coach now, Gatland would 100% get the job.

However, as many have noted above, much water is yet to pass under the bridge between now and 2017 (or 2016 assuming the coach will be selected a year in advance). Wales (and Gatland's reputation) could decline, Schmidt may propel Ireland to play more often as they did in their last outing, Lancaster may continue ahead of schedule and win the WC on home soil and Cotter could mastermind a revival in Scottish rugby fortunes.

Impossible to sensibly predict at this stage, however Gatland would clearly be the frontrunner at this point in time.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Gatland is comfortably the front runner at the moment. Wales have won back to back 6 Nations titles, were comfortably the pick of the 4 nations at the last World Cup and, last but not least, he coached the last winning Lions series hammering Australia in the final decider and playing great rugby in the process. Were we picking a coach now, Gatland would 100% get the job.

However, as many have noted above, much water is yet to pass under the bridge between now and 2017 (or 2016 assuming the coach will be selected a year in advance). Wales (and Gatland's reputation) could decline, Schmidt may propel Ireland to play more often as they did in their last outing, Lancaster may continue ahead of schedule and win the WC on home soil and Cotter could mastermind a revival in Scottish rugby fortunes.

Impossible to sensibly predict at this stage, however Gatland would clearly be the frontrunner at this point in time.

Rob Howley won the last 6 nations for Wales not Gatland.

I suppose that's a fair comment GG. Howley took the flak for Wales' prior performances when Gatland was out, so only fair that he receive the credit for Wales' strong performance in the final game of the 6 Nations.

Still, it doesn't change my view that Gatland is the frontrunner for 2017 at the current time, and would be selected were the Lions touring next year. Also that so much can change in three years and there are some hugely promising coaches knocking around NH rugby at the moment.

He might be the most acomplished and sucessful coach in the NH but I would rather someone neutral as that for me would be a better bet in terms of preserving the rich traditions of the Lions. I think there are plenty on non-national coaches that would do an excellent job:

EOS
Kidney
Mallinder
Richards
McGeechan

I think having a strong coaching team in place can be just as good as having a good head coach.

If it was a non-neutral then I think Schmidt would be a more diplomatic option with every bit as good a tactical brain and winning mentality. Obviously Im biased there but would nearly prefer he didnt get the job for selfish reasons.

I agree that the "non-national" coach approach merits consideration. Clearly McGeechan was a good choice in 2009 despite not having coached at international level for some time. I do think it important though that the coaches, if not the head coach, has recent coaching experience against the team in question (in this case the ABs), and a good knowledge of the current techniques and tactics in international rugby at the time of the tour. I'd query therefore whether those on your list would have that, or be able to command the respect of the wider coaching team, people like Rowntree or Howley, without international coaching experience (i.e. in the case of Richards and Mallinder - both coaches I rate very highly).

The neutrality point does merit consideration though. I think few would argue that McGeechan was anything but neutral in 1997 and 2009, however I'd suggest that most fans questionned Woodward in 2005 and Gatland in 2013 re: picking English and Welsh players respectively (albeit that I think Gatland's picks in 2013 were pretty good on the whole, and his more questionnable selections (e.g. only two fly halves and Matt Stevens) didn't actually favour Wales).

I think we'll just need to see the lay of the land come 2016 and start up the debate properly at that point. From my perspective I just hope that come 2017 there are a minimum of 5 Scots in the touring party, without any hint of favouratism or bias.

[quote="The Saint"]

majesticimperialman wrote:I think this is a stupid post, fancy saying the Gatland will be the Lions coach next time around.

I noticed on another thread some Welsh fans are calling for Gatland to become "SIR" Warren Gatland.  That it self is nonsence in my mind.

Lets get the RWC out of the way first. see who is the best coach after that, best coach too coach the Lions that is. and lets not jump to conclusions.

  Rich coming from you.

Why shouldn't Gats be knighted? Jimmy Saville received a knighthood for annoying lots of young women in the BBC studio, so go figure. [/quote


Saint are you saying that Gatland is the Same as Jimmy Savillie?  

Why should Gatland not get a knight hood? Simple he is the coach of Wales and Wales have not beaten the Abs for aboiut 60+ years. If you want to give Gatland a knight hood for winning the Lions series. Why not give Stuart Lancaster a knight hood for beaten the Abs. only 2 year ago. In case you have for gotten that.   

Oh dear Madge   

Firstly, the majority of people calling for a knighthood for King Warren, are only really doing it to balance out some of the absurd posts that are about, going overboard about how small an achievement the Lions win was. Don't get so wound up, my old mucker.

Secondly, don't compare what Stuart Lancaster has done to what King Warren has done. I am sure it is a lovely thing to have a win v NZ on your cv (as a coach or player), but it isn't significant silverware. So I think for services to rugby that things get bunged out for would be a fair shout, given his success as a club, national and Lions coach. Also, King Warren has not been in charge of Wales for sixty years, so unfortunately you can't pin all our losses to NZ on him.

RiscaRev

I take your point about Warren Gatland not being in charge of Wales for the last sixty years....But surely he has been in charge long enough to have won atleast "ONCE" Dont you think?

Why would Gatland get a knighthood? He's a kiwi. I thought knighthoods came via the recommendation of the governer general of the recipients own nation. And he's not likely to get that from here for services to his country. Or is there some overriding rule that allows another country to knight someone? What if they're not from a CWealth nation?
Weird.

If Wales successfully defend their 6 Nations title again (which would be a pretty historic achievement), reach the WC semi-final (or better) and Gatland plots a historic series Lions win against NZ, then by all means arise Sir Warren. Not before.

Taylorman wrote:Why would Gatland get a knighthood? He's a kiwi. I thought knighthoods came via the recommendation of the governer general of the recipients own nation. And he's not likely to get that from here for services to his country. Or is there some overriding rule that allows another country to knight someone? What if they're not from a CWealth nation?
Weird.

Taylorman.

That is what i thought as well. That with Gatland being a Kiwi he could not get a knight hood "in this country" He could only get one from the NZ goverment.

Cna some say if this is true or not? Cannot find any info on who can be a warded a knight hood.

Sir Edmund Hillary was a Kiwi, no?

Big ask winning a series here. The ABs know that putting pressure on a side brought together for a one off series is all that is needed. Cause disharmony in the tourists in a way that makes them bicker internally is something unique about the Lions. That's why the best chances of a win are where the majority of the sides stronger players are from the same side...as in Wales in 71 and 74 and probably the third test this year.

Worst case scenario would be if GATS got his quota rules. A four way split would be a nightmare once they lost and the internal frustrations are vented.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Sir Edmund Hillary was a Kiwi, no?

Yes and he didn't coach wales. Amongst many things he also climbed everest. Did he not get his knighthood via NZ?

Taylorman wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Sir Edmund Hillary was a Kiwi, no?

Yes and he didn't coach wales. Amongst many things he also climbed everest. Did he not get his knighthood via NZ?

Jim Telfer compared a Lions series win to conquering Everest, so same thing isn't it?

The lions is past it's sell by date, let it rest in peace

I may be wrong on this but I thought anyone could be awarded a knighthood for services to the UK or any of it's overseas territories? But the matter of whether they can use the title Sir in it's official capacity is dictated by their own citizenship and their home country's head of state.

So Lions tour and 6 Nations victories would qualify but successes in the name of New Zealand (for example) would not? Edmund Hillary's everest climb was a British expedition I think  But since Elizabeth is the head of state of New Zealand he would be officially able to style himself as 'Sir' Warren unlike say, Bob Geldof

The Lions don't have a coach.

The figurehead euphemistically called the Coach is really only a selector who also has to deal with the media. How is it possible for a "coach" to make any difference to players or practise moves when he has no time to do so?
Therefore since there is no time to do anything other than select players who already know each other's games, the head "coach" should also be the guy who knows the majority of the players who will be selected. If Wales will be the dominant team in 2017 and will again have a dozen starters then Gatland is undoubtedly the man. OTOH if England are the nation with eleven or twelve starters then it has to be Lancaster.

Schmidt might be a dark horse if Ireland suddenly get their act together and justify 80% of the team, but anyone outside of those three won't know the players and therefore (because there is no time in the modern Lions schedule) won't stand any chance against the All Blacks.

GunsGerms wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Gatland is comfortably the front runner at the moment. Wales have won back to back 6 Nations titles, were comfortably the pick of the 4 nations at the last World Cup and, last but not least, he coached the last winning Lions series hammering Australia in the final decider and playing great rugby in the process. Were we picking a coach now, Gatland would 100% get the job.

However, as many have noted above, much water is yet to pass under the bridge between now and 2017 (or 2016 assuming the coach will be selected a year in advance). Wales (and Gatland's reputation) could decline, Schmidt may propel Ireland to play more often as they did in their last outing, Lancaster may continue ahead of schedule and win the WC on home soil and Cotter could mastermind a revival in Scottish rugby fortunes.

Impossible to sensibly predict at this stage, however Gatland would clearly be the frontrunner at this point in time.

Rob Howley won the last 6 nations for Wales not Gatland.

Thats debatable also, Wales for me won the 6 Nations despite of Howley not cos of him.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Thats debatable also, Wales for me won the 6 Nations despite of Howley not cos of him.

What has a guy got to do to win over the Warrenball lovers?

Howley did a good job considering even his own countrymen wanted him to fail!

No wonder the welsh game is in turmoil.

Scrumpy wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Thats debatable also, Wales for me won the 6 Nations despite of Howley not cos of him.

What has a guy got to do to win over the Warrenball lovers?

Howley did a good job considering even his own countrymen wanted him to fail!

No wonder the welsh game is in turmoil.

But at least we have got rid of Henson

Scrumpy wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Thats debatable also, Wales for me won the 6 Nations despite of Howley not cos of him.

What has a guy got to do to win over the Warrenball lovers?

Howley did a good job considering even his own countrymen wanted him to fail!

No wonder the welsh game is in turmoil.

What has a living legend got to do to win over the Warrenball haters?

Stop playing Warrenball?