5th Ashes Test, Sydney

First topic message reminder :

January 3-7, Sydney Cricket Ground
Start time 1030 (2330 GMT)

Australia:
CJL Rogers, DA Warner, SR Watson, MJ Clarke*, SPD Smith, GJ Bailey, BJ Haddin†, MG Johnson, PM Siddle, RJ Harris, NM Lyon

England:
AN Cook*, MA Carberry, IR Bell, KP Pietersen, GS Ballance, BA Stokes, JM Bairstow†, SG Borthwick, SCJ Broad, JM Anderson, WB Rankin


The grassy SCG pitch should offer some assistance for the pace bowlers early on. Some grip there for the spinners too. It's not going to be too hot and there is the chance of a few showers over the 5 days - but nothing too substantial. Some cloud cover and high humidity though.

The horrer show goes on for England. Will it all get over on day 3?
Boyd Rankin, the Ireland man who crossed over to play test cricket isn't up to it really, and Giles wasted all those hours for nothing. Scott Borthwick is nowhere near an international standard spinner, and he won't be anywhere near enough to cover the spin demands of the side. Monty still is their best bet, or else they've to go to Tredwell or some other frontline spinner. Garry Ballance is the only 1 among the 3 debutants who looked potential test standard really.
They've ruined Finn, they've ruined Root, who's in line next? I fear for young Ben Stokes now, he's a good bet with the ball, and could develop into a quality all-rounder, but he tends to go for a few runs now and then and is no mythical economizer........

Interesting that borthwick is in ahead of Monty, it's been mentioned on another thread.

India winning 5-0 against England in England? Not a single Indian cricket supporter would be thinking on those lines. If they get their selections right and the players find form and maintain fitness for the duration of the tour, a series win can't be out of the question, or an honourable draw or even a non-humiliating loss for that matter. India though, tend to pick some bowlers for their 'big heart', the 'ability to bowl long spells and work hard in the nets', the 'willingness to run in all day' and bowl utter rubbish mostly for the skipper and some mythical unrealized 'potential', just like a few selections from England for equally glorious reasons.

msp83 wrote: India though, tend to pick some bowlers for their 'big heart', the 'ability to bowl long spells and work hard in the nets', the 'willingness to run in all day' and bowl utter rubbish mostly for the skipper and some mythical unrealized 'potential', just like a few selections from England for equally glorious reasons.

I sometimes honestly feel that Dhoni and Flower are similar minded people

KP_fan wrote:

msp83 wrote:    India though, tend to pick some bowlers for their 'big heart', the 'ability to bowl long spells and work hard in the nets', the 'willingness to run in all day' and bowl utter rubbish mostly for the skipper and some mythical unrealized 'potential', just like a few selections from England for equally glorious reasons.

I sometimes honestly feel that Dhoni and Flower are similar minded people

KPF, what would MSD not give for a bowler like the wasted and unwanted Steven Finn?

msp83 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

msp83 wrote:    India though, tend to pick some bowlers for their 'big heart', the 'ability to bowl long spells and work hard in the nets', the 'willingness to run in all day' and bowl utter rubbish mostly for the skipper and some mythical unrealized 'potential', just like a few selections from England for equally glorious reasons.

I sometimes honestly feel that Dhoni and Flower are similar minded people

KPF, what would MSD not give for a bowler like the wasted and unwanted Steven Finn?

isn't he wasting a genuine pace bowler like Yadav.....looking for line and length and control

I think England should've batted after winning the toss.

I don't think it would have mattered too much, GE.

The Australian bowlers most likely would have made early inroads - that's why I thought 90/4 (or whatever it was after that first session) was not too bad an effort in those conditions on a 1st Day SCG pitch when it definitely favours the bowling side. It could have been much worse for us against a more potent bowling attack. (i.e. SA on song)

The conditions on Day 1, 2014 were not as bad as in 2010 ( v. Pakistan... in the Dodgy Test where they made 127 and were 64/7 at tea after the rain delay!) and also in 2011 when Australia struggled to reach 55/0 at lunch but hobbled on to make 280.

Not saying England would have been 23/5 if they had batted first but I do feel they would have been struggling a lot more than Australia did during that first session on Day 1 and the Baggy Greens would still probably have had a substantial 1st innings lead.

The crucial day three then - can England pull this out of the fire?

Well...no they can't. Obviously.

Or can they? A few quick wickets and I wouldn't rule England out of chasing 400. Very slim chance, but Australia might be complacent, and KP or Cook or both may pull out of their special innings.

It wasn't that long ago that these two were having the time of their lives Down Under. You never know, you never know with England.

What's that? Only one English batsman has made a century this series? England haven't reached 400 for 25-odd innings? England have lost four tests in a row? England are in the abyss?

Ah...forget it then.

The game has already gone unless the last six wickets tumble for less than 50 runs and even then I couldn't see England chasing this down.

The best England can hope to get from this now is some signs from the debutant that they are worth persevering with.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

The best England can hope to get from this now is some signs from the debutant that they are worth persevering with.

Pietersen getting a bowl before Rankin or Borthwick perhaps signifies that Cook has already made his mind up.

For me Borthwick is the one we should be seeing bowling. Rankin I don't see as being a long-term prospect for England but Borthwick is one of those touted for that important spinners role. They selected him so surely they have to bowl him?

Morning all. KP has started tidily enough. Not a bad option with the left hander in , actually.
KP might have been used a bit more earlier in the tour , perhaps.

George Bailey battling away ... Any chance he will save his spot for SA , I wonder ?

I am sure (considering how the match is standing) Borthwick will get hit to all parts but the key is whether he can get some balls to spin.

Especially, seeing KP spinning one or two it is surely time to get Borthwick on. It surely is a knock to his confidence not bowling him before KP even more so than if he were bowling and getting for four and sixes.

CaledonianCraig wrote:For me Borthwick is the one we should be seeing bowling.  Rankin I don't see as being a long-term prospect for England but Borthwick is one of those touted for that important spinners role. They selected him so surely they have to bowl him?

Craig - as I wouldn't have selected Borthwick for this Test, I'm probably not best placed to comment. In any case, I'm a bit torn between your fair minded logic and what strikes me as your inevitable assessment of the consequences were Borthwick to bowl (ie being hit round the ground).

Worth remembering that Panesar was often overlooked for Root in the last Test.

Pietersen bowled a bit for Surrey in 2012 (during his spat with the England hierarchy) and actually did quite well. Probably a better bowler than Root in my view although that still doesn't make him a Test match bowler.

Also I think talk Australia will declare with a lead of 400 is plain daft just now. There are still more than half of the test match still to play so there is no rush. Plus it is a big chance for Bailey to get a confidence-boosting big score so why would they declare at lunch?

Borthwick will bowl , I imagine , soon enough. Going to be tough for him today , but hey , this is called a Test Match for a reason.

Rogers gets his hundred   

Talk about a late bloomer ...he has done brilliantly for Australia , though overshadowed by Johnson , Haddin - and Clarke and Warner - earlier in the series. As he said , he feels more comfortable now Swann has gone from the England attack. Perhaps a hint as to why KP bowled.

I bow to your superior knowledge of the sport. However, Borthwick has been selected so they can take a look at what he can do so they are learning nothing having him wandering around in the outfield (taking catches as I type).

Borthwick in the game now - good outfield catch sees Bailey gone...will he be seen again in the Test side ?

Now Haddin   

Rogers - like a good wine. Gets better with age. He has looked as solid as a rock in this series and weighed in with several big scores. Very well played.

Wonder how England will approach Haddin today ?

Oh gawd ...they bring on Rankin ! Have some pies , Brad ...

It wouldn't surprise me if Bailey still makes the squad but loses his place in the starting line-up.

Did someone mention pies?   

Morning Alfie - completely agree with you about Rogers. They were flagging on Sky just before today's start that he's the leading run scorer of both sides going back to the start of the summer series in England. That surprised a lot of the professional pundits there. He just goes about his job quietltly and efficiently, often keeping below the radar.

The difference between Rogers and his fellow opener Warner is night and day. Rogers is a low maintenance-type player - a solid professional who is a no thrills type player and plays a quiet unassuming game. Warner is the opposite. High maintenance, flashy shots and some reckless and hot-headed gobby sort.

CaledonianCraig wrote:The difference between Rogers and his fellow opener Warner is night and day. Rogers is a low maintenance-type player - a solid professional who is a no thrills type player and plays a quiet unassuming game. Warner is the opposite. High maintenance, flashy shots and some reckless and hot-headed gobby sort.

True , Craig. Actually makes for a good partnership. Opposites , etc.

England would like something similar as an opening pair ; which is why they ditched Compton , I feel. Cook needs a more aggressive partner. But neither Carberry nor Root appears to be it .

Yes Alfie I would definitely agree there. Cook is the sort of player who likes to play/score at his own pace. However, if his partner is bogged down more of the onus goes on to him to score runs to get the scoreboard ticking over taking him out of his comfort zone.

alfie wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:The difference between Rogers and his fellow opener Warner is night and day. Rogers is a low maintenance-type player - a solid professional who is a no thrills type player and plays a quiet unassuming game. Warner is the opposite. High maintenance, flashy shots and some reckless and hot-headed gobby sort.

True , Craig.  Actually makes for a good partnership. Opposites , etc.

England would like something similar as an opening pair ; which is why they ditched Compton , I feel.  Cook needs a more aggressive partner.  But neither Carberry nor Root appears to be it .

Agree with both you gents although worth noting that Rogers is going at a rather uncharacteristicaly quick lick in this innings, currently a SR around 70.

Is there an aggressive player among the young prospective openers in England ?
A pity Hales cannot transfer his t20 skills into the long game...

I don't think it is a coincidence either that Cook's average scores have dipped in matches recently with Compton, Root and Carberry as his opening partner.

alfie wrote:Is there an aggressive player among the young prospective openers in England ?
A pity Hales cannot transfer his t20 skills into the long game...

I am not sure. What sort of an opener is Robson? Circumspect or a bit more aggressive?

Ha ...you are right there , guildford. Although being relatively unflashy doesn't preclude fast scoring once you are set ...Cook can motor along when he is in form. I think we are talking more about their natural inclinations and first priority.
Which for Rogers has been safely seeing off the new ball. He has soaked up a lot of Anderson early in these Tests.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

alfie wrote:Is there an aggressive player among the young prospective openers in England ?
A pity Hales cannot transfer his t20 skills into the long game...

I am not sure. What sort of an opener is Robson? Circumspect or a bit more aggressive?

I was just wondering about Robson - he's the one the professional pundits are speculating about most here. From cricinfo, his fc SR is a tad above 50 (by comparison, Carberry's is a touch over 51).

Btw, Alfie, when are we going to see Borthwick then?   

In fairness to Rankin he has been a bit tidier this morning. Not exactly threatening , but his length has been better.

Someone is going to get murdered after lunch though the way Haddin is shaping...I have seen this movie before   

And of course Rogers had a little more freedom as Australia are in a very strong position. Couple that with the fact he is in form and confidence is up and hence to have a higher than normal strike rate for him.

guildfordbat wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

alfie wrote:Is there an aggressive player among the young prospective openers in England ?
A pity Hales cannot transfer his t20 skills into the long game...

I am not sure. What sort of an opener is Robson? Circumspect or a bit more aggressive?

I was just wondering about Robson - he's the one the professional pundits are speculating about most here. From cricinfo, his fc SR is a tad above 50 (by comparison, Carberry's is a touch over 51).

Btw, Alfie, when are we going to see Borthwick then?   

When , indeed ? I'll ring Cook at lunchtime and remind him   

alfie wrote:

Someone is going to get murdered after lunch though the way Haddin is shaping...I have seen this movie before   

And you see that is the problem with not bowling Borthwick. It will likely be him thrown the ball to bowl his first overs of the day. What good is that to him?

And right on cue....

Never mind...here he is now...

CaledonianCraig wrote:And right on cue....

Yep, thought I would move things along for you and Alfie.   

And Borthwick strikes to get Haddin.

Brad Haddin has now scored 3000 Test runs.    I'm so pleased for him.

Borthwick just bowls him now though. 7 runs shy of 500 runs for this series.   

With the 400-run lead now up they'll just keep going. Expect some fireworks after lunch.

Well done to Chris Rogers too. That's the 10th Australian century this Series... and the 9th from a NSW player.
Can't tell you how good that makes me feel. Normal service resumed!

Borthwick the Haddin slayer ! That'll make him feel better...

Not his best ball perhaps ...but I was pleased to see him tossing it up.

Be interested to see how he bowls from here.

And Mitch gone now...

Three more and we can start the record run chase for 1-4   

''So Brad Haddin fails. 28 from 40 balls.'' - Ian Botham.

If that's a failure for a number 7 having pushed the lead up to over 400, then that shows how high Haddin has set the bar.

Stokes gets his 8th wicket of the match bowling Johnson. Match is over as a contest though. The real interest for England will be how Ballance performs with bat and how Borthwick bowls and bats as well as Rankin.

Johnson cleaned bowled by Stokes.
A couple of words to the moustachioed one from young Ben. Maybe not the wisest thing to do.

Mitch will no doubt have the last word... or at least makes things uncomfortable for him when he comes out and tries to do the impossible.

guildfordbat wrote:''So Brad Haddin fails. 28 from 40 balls.'' - Ian Botham.

If that's a failure for a number 7 having pushed the lead up to over 400, then that shows how high Haddin has set the bar.

Surely Beefy with an attempt at irony ? Even he isn't that thick...

guildfordbat wrote:''So Brad Haddin fails. 28 from 40 balls.'' - Ian Botham.

If that's a failure for a number 7 having pushed the lead up to over 400, then that shows how high Haddin has set the bar.

Well a failure by his high standards is how Beefy sees it.