Aviva Premiership Round Twelve

by **Ozzy3213** Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:47 pm

First topic message reminder :

Fri 3rd Jan 14 19:45 PR Newcastle Falcons v Sale Sharks Kingston Park
Fri 3rd Jan 14 19:45 PR Northampton Saints v Harlequins Franklin's Gardens
Sat 4th Jan 14 15:00 PR London Irish v Worcester Warriors Madejski Stadium
Sat 4th Jan 14 15:15 PR Gloucester Rugby v Saracens Kingsholm
Sun 5th Jan 14 14:00 PR Leicester Tigers v Bath Rugby Welford Road
Sun 5th Jan 14 15:00 PR London Wasps v Exeter Chiefs Adams Park

Some big fixtures again this weekend. I'm going for Sharks, Saints, Saracens, Tigers and Chiefs to win. Not predicting on the Irish game, just praying this week! Leprechaun

by yappysnap Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:37 pm

Tigers coming back into it with a Bath yc allowing TTT to score off a lineout.

by yappysnap Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:38 pm

nathan wrote:that lineout didnt go 5? why is there being so much missed in this match?

As a Quins fan I feel your pain!

by nathan Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:45 pm

what utter Poopie by the ref, bath are clearly being allowed to push early.

by nathan Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:47 pm

so the assistant ref is telling the ref bath need to bind legally, so if they can see that why isn't it a pen?

by nathan Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:51 pm

high tackle from the bananman! Wink

by ChequeredJersey Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:55 pm

Score? I'm on a bus back to London and don't trust bbc

by Scrumpy Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:58 pm

Draw.

Criminal from bath to throw that away, when you have a penalty within range at Welford road you take the points!

by Manu's Boxing Coach Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:00 pm

Fair result in the end. But Doyle wasn't half a pain in the backside for Tigers and one of Baths tries clearly included a forward pass. Some good signs but once again the defence at points did look dodgy. Thinking if we just had a few more key players ie. Allen and Tuilagi with Flood kicking from the tee we would have just nicked that one from a top quality Bath side at the moment. Top 2 almost definitely gone but if we get a rumble on no team would want to face us in a semi final at home or away.

by **Rugby Fan** Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:01 pm

Draw 27-27

by nathan Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:01 pm

disappointed with the draw, suppose it's better than a loss. seemed that there was a few decisions that didn't go our way.

Final score was 27 - 27 with williams missing the touchline conversion.

by Scrumpy Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:03 pm

nathan wrote:disappointed with the draw, suppose it's better than a loss. seemed that there was a few decisions that didn't go our way.

Final score was 27 - 27 with williams missing the touchline conversion.

And what decisions were they?

Or should I wait to hear what man sausage has to say lol Very Happy

by ChequeredJersey Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:04 pm

I'd love to face you guys in a SF, home or away, because

A) it means we'd have gotten their
B) it would mean we weren't playing Sarries at AP

by ChequeredJersey Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:05 pm

Though I think that if we were in good form at the time, we'd take any of you. Have to back the team

by Manu's Boxing Coach Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:11 pm

Scrumpy wrote:
nathan wrote:disappointed with the draw, suppose it's better than a loss. seemed that there was a few decisions that didn't go our way.

Final score was 27 - 27 with williams missing the touchline conversion.

And what decisions were they?

Or should I wait to hear what man sausage has to say lol

Forward pass for your try scrumpy? Ignorance is bliss eh.

by ChequeredJersey Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:13 pm

Was it forward like Steven Jones thinks of a forward pass or forward like what a forward pass actually is with allowance taken for the laws of physics (argued by some to be even more paramount than the laws of rugby)?

by Manu's Boxing Coach Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:15 pm

It was a genuine forward pass, like Giteau's for Toulon against the chiefs.

by Scrumpy Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:15 pm

But it was a try so therefore it can't have been a forward pass!

Some of you need to read the rules regarding forward passes, it's been discussed here on v2 many times Very Happy

by Manu's Boxing Coach Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:20 pm

Scrumpy wrote:But it was a try so therefore it can't have been a forward pass!

Some of you need to read the rules regarding forward passes, it's been discussed here on v2 many times

Mate it came out of his hands forward and Joseph was even in front of him! I'm all for momentum passes but that wasn't one.

by formerly known as Sam Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:26 pm

What was annoying was that the forward pass should have never happened after Bath dropped the ball at the maul from the lineout and the ref waved play on.

Bath were the better team as Tigers badly missed some of their line breakers whilst Bath had the bulk up front and some dazzling feet in the backs.

I feel for Williams, he was so desperate to do the business for the team I think he took on some kicks that were just far too close to the touchline when he should have kicked to the corner.

Badly need Allen back to organise that defence as, as good as Flood and Goneva are as players they don't have the same mass tackle rate as Allen which we'll need vs Ulster.

by nathan Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:36 pm

Scrumpy wrote:But it was a try so therefore it can't have been a forward pass!

Some of you need to read the rules regarding forward passes, it's been discussed here on v2 many times

It came out of hands forward, he was around 2 meters away so the chances of a "momentum pass" is reduced.

by nathan Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:39 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:What was annoying was that the forward pass should have never happened after Bath dropped the ball at the maul from the lineout and the ref waved play on.

Bath were the better team as Tigers badly missed some of their line breakers whilst Bath had the bulk up front and some dazzling feet in the backs.

I feel for Williams, he was so desperate to do the business for the team I think he took on some kicks that were just far too close to the touchline when he should have kicked to the corner.

Badly need Allen back to organise that defence as, as good as Flood and Goneva are as players they don't have the same mass tackle rate as Allen which we'll need vs Ulster.

Didn't think Goneva had a great game defensively but i think you could say that about a fair few players today.

by Welly Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:39 pm

Take that score in the end, Allen coming back next week.

add Logo and Mafi with Croft rumoured to be back by March.

Should of won, but take a draw in the end. Gibson is just getting better and better.

Flood staying for the 6n games so if Ford and Myler get promoted then Bath and Saints will be missing they Lynch pin who knows one can only hope.

by ChequeredJersey Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:50 pm

We are going to struggle without Marler and Care. Can cover Robshaw and just about Brown, hopefully Care but Dickson was poor against Saints

by HammerofThunor Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:51 pm

Personally I thought it was a forward pass and that bath got the benefit of the refs calls more than Tigers. But I felt the rain in the second half effected Bath more than Tigers.

Got to say the look on Bruce Craig's face after Gibson got the try was priceless Smile

by Scrumpy Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:47 pm

Manu's Boxing Coach wrote:
Scrumpy wrote:But it was a try so therefore it can't have been a forward pass!

Some of you need to read the rules regarding forward passes, it's been discussed here on v2 many times

Mate it came out of his hands forward and Joseph was even in front of him! I'm all for momentum passes but that wasn't one.

It's in the book as a try and the TMO agreed it was ok, it was a flat pass and JJ took it behind the rest of his body why are people even doubting it? Erm

by formerly known as Sam Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:53 pm

Bath got a couple of 50/50 decisions I thought Tigers should have had but that's rugby. Can't complain about that as I'm sure a Bath fan will have a different view. Can complain about the forward pass but I felt our decisions to kick for points from the touchline instead of putting the ball into the corner and driving for the line cost us more.

by nathan Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:05 pm

Scrumpy wrote:
Manu's Boxing Coach wrote:
Scrumpy wrote:But it was a try so therefore it can't have been a forward pass!

Some of you need to read the rules regarding forward passes, it's been discussed here on v2 many times

Mate it came out of his hands forward and Joseph was even in front of him! I'm all for momentum passes but that wasn't one.

It's in the book as a try and the TMO agreed it was ok, it was a flat pass and JJ took it behind the rest of his body why are people even doubting it?

they have two eyes?

by Heaf Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:42 pm

As a neutral I have to say it definitely looked forward to me - not sure what the TMO was looking at - and as has been mentioned Bath were lucky to be in that position as they clearly dropped the ball at the previous line-out meaning everyone in front of the ball when it was picked up again was off-side.

Good match for the neutrals though.

by HammerofThunor Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:23 pm

I think with the TMO it has to be clear and obvious, and he didn't really have a camera angle exactly in line with the players meaning perspective can make things look forward or back. So he went with try. That's the only thing I can thing of.

I was pretty damn close and done with now.

Heaf, you an Irish supporter, right? Well done on the win if so. Allows you to settle a little better in your seat.

by Heaf Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:02 pm

Thanks Hammer, yes feeling a little bit more comfortable now thumbsup

by Heaf Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:06 pm

PS mixed feelings to see all our ex-players playing so well today mind with tries for Watson, JJ & Gibson plus Garvy putting in his usual shift.

by nathan Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:27 pm

Heaf wrote:PS mixed feelings to see all our ex-players playing so well today mind with tries for Watson, JJ & Gibson plus Garvy putting in his usual shift.

Watching Ford play today i understand how you feel.

by doctor_grey Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:11 pm

That Watson has serious talent. If he continues to develop............

by formerly known as Sam Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:24 pm

He certainly did his England chances no harm today.

by Hound of Harrow Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:34 pm

Wasps were blydi awful against Exe, but managed to eke out a 19-16 win. Simpson and Goode were complete garbage for most of the game with poor kicking from hand.
Then Simmo redeemed himself with a typical break and a try. He then held up an Exe player over our line (after another poor clearance from Goode set them up).

Goode then bags the winning drop goal. Frustrating game from my perspective. Some truly awful stuff from Wasps in the first half, then the worst culprits deliver a win.

Still, I'll take the win - and Ealing won away at Nottingham.

Aviva Premiership Round Twelve - Page 4 3933776953

Aviva Premiership Round Twelve - Page 4 3933776953

by kingelderfield Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:20 pm

HongKongCherry wrote:Cheers Hammer.

Things aren't right, but I'm confident they're being addressed albeit for next season. The old adage that forwards win games has never been truer than our example. We have a very good backrow, but like the backs if they're going backwards you can't expect them to be at their best. Davies inherited this squad and the forwards were largely tied in until next year, so yes not had much chance to revitalise things. Afoa and Hibbard will help enormously and we should also be signing a big lock to add to the front 5. Dear old Woody is past his best; 3 years ago he was the best LH in the Jeff, but he just doesn't hit those heights anymore. I think its time Yann Thomas is given the starting berth.

It is a lot more than just the front 5, but without out decent first phase ball we can't build any territory or possession. We are a team bereft of confidence and it shows. We need to remember how we played last year and start trusting our ability, although that's easier said than done.

King, you've got a bit of a thing for Davies, personally I feel he is very much the man for the job. The structure he is putting in place is very much about the long term and I believe we will start seeing the benefits of this from next year. We're having a tough year, but he can only take so much blame. This season has been personified by players making idiotic mistakes and a coach cannot be held responsible.

Scrumpy, happy new year to you too

The thing is a coach in rugby is absolutely pivotal. They lead the line, they set the agenda, and they lead by example. They have to be sophisticated, inspirational, organised, authoritative and prescient - it is a tall order but if you're weak in any of these areas then you will be found out. So tell me does he show you passion or is he lame, is the coaching organised or a shambles, is he authoritative or are the players taking the urine as well as the filthy. Sorry for me the trap door should be primed and unless there's a remarkable improvement I think it is right that he takes the fall.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:12 pm

Bravo Wasps, a good win for you clap

Can anyone tell me when Exe will get the run of the green with any TMO? I make it six against and counting so far this season - I'd take the law of random ref guesses over that

Chief

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:46 am

Yep, robbed: https://twitter.com/ExeterChiefs/status/419928649685823488/photo/1

Chief

by Bathite Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:13 am

Reading through the pages on here, some serious whinging about decisions in the Tigers game. Ford pass to JJ definitely forward though, how did the TMO think otherwise? Bizarre

Seen the highlights, so can't really comment on decisions, but i'm gutted we got that close to our first win at Welford in 10 years.

by beshocked Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:23 am

alasbut100ofus I do agree that Exeter have been a bit unlucky with the TMO.

Hopefully you'll get some luck in the future.

Darn almost a full house of correct predictions - draws always mess that up.

kingelderfield I must agree with hongkongcherry surely the players have to take some responsibility for the mess also? The coaches put in the structure true but it's the players who are on the pitch.

If Davies does indeed leave, who do you bring in instead?

Yappysnap Watson scored 1 try. Get him in the England side now! Perhaps Benjamin too!

by Bathman_in_London Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:43 pm

A question for Tigers fans following the game yesterday, how often does Cole play a full game? Seems pretty unusual in this day and age when most front rows seem to have 60 minutes before the evitable raft of changes.

by formerly known as Sam Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:35 pm

Most games with Mulipola injured. Balmain the young tighthead is good but not the same weapon at the set piece and recently we've needed that in the later part of games.

by nathan Mon Jan 06, 2014 7:51 pm

Bathite wrote:Reading through the pages on here, some serious whinging about decisions in the Tigers game. Ford pass to JJ definitely forward though, how did the TMO think otherwise? Bizarre

Seen the highlights, so can't really comment on decisions, but i'm gutted we got that close to our first win at Welford in 10 years.

Some serious whinging and then you agree with them! Hug

by Bathite Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:08 pm

Mate you had about 10 different pops, sometimes back to back! I agree with you on one of them!

by Scrumpy Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:55 pm

It was flat!

For me the biggest mistake Bath made was making too many subs when they weren't needed.

by doctor_grey Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:04 am

Strange game, really. To me, Bath seemed the better team for large part of the match. But Williams missed a number of kicks. Maybe a draw is a good result considering?

by Bathite Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:25 am

Really weird result, considering that they had that kick to win it! I still can't work out if i'm disappointed at a missed opportunity or happy to scrape a draw (considering forward pass for the try and the missed kicks)

by TJ Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:03 am

I just watched the tigers / Bath game. Cracking game. Two teams playing positive attacking rugby, two scrumhalves who get the game moving. Rugby is an entertainment business and that was quality entertainment. Thanks to both teams.

On an aside J.P.Doyle was a bit fussy but clear and consistent and especially in the scrums where he spotted the wheeling, got everything pretty well right. He made sure the breakdown was a fair contest and that no one could illegally slow ball

by Bathite Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:33 am

Interesting to hear a neutral perspective. Lots of the Tigers lot on here complaining that we were off our feet at the rucks and 'flopping' on the ball. You see much of that?

by TJ Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:45 pm

I thought the ref pretty tight on that overall. If a floppeee either side blocked the contest for the ball they were whistled. I saw a lot of good and fair contest for the ball by both sides. I think the ref let it go if the flopee made some attempt to clear out. seemed pretty even handed to me and very few mistakes

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