Guerrero and Khan typical of modern fighter

The CSAC has declined to support Robert ''the Ghost'' Guerrero in his effort to break from his contract with GDP.

Rightfully so. Who does Robert think he is?

1 fight with a proper elite name (which he did not deserve) and he EXPECTS to fight in only big fights WTF!

He was never that good. 1 level up from journeyman status. Now he is not interested in fighting on undercards and wants out. Terrible example these so called warriors send out. Its ALL about money now and proving yourself is not important.

Khan on the other hand will take a year out of fighting so he can land the fight he so badly wants.....Mayweather.

WHAT! after going life and death with a Tijauna milkman like Diaz???

Surely Khan wants to take another fight against a respected name to reassure fight fans that he is deserving of a shot at FMJ? Noooo not a chance heading for the dollor signs.

Terrible state of affairs.

1. Why is he one level up from a journeyman.......??

2. When hasn't Boxing been a business ????

3. Are you naive enough to think 'ducking' or 'chasing' the buck is a modern phenomenon ??

Easy to join the ranks of modern hate........But it really isn't no different now than it's ever been.....sorry to tell you kiddo..

Patterson - Rademacher.....Anybody ??

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:1. Why is he one level up from a journeyman.......??

2. When hasn't Boxing been a business ????

3. Are you naive enough to think 'ducking' or 'chasing' the buck is a modern phenomenon ??

Easy to join the ranks of modern hate........But it really isn't no different now than it's ever been.....sorry to tell you kiddo..

Patterson - Rademacher.....Anybody ??

Sorry don't agree.

There was atime when the best fought the best was there not?

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
There was atime when the best fought the best was there not?

When?

Khan is trying to fight the best isn't he ???........Guerrero wants to fight Manny who is also one of the best..

So what's your problem ??????????????????

Let me tell you something........Moan about these guys all you like....But their priorities are to provide for themselves and their families first and then worry about legacy and what hypocrites like you think !!

Because If anything happens to the guy in the ring he and they will have to pick up the pieces and live with the consequences long after you've moved on to criticising the NEXT GUY.....

He owes you a PERFORMANCE nothing else !!!!!!!!

They are joke opponents but its not their fault they are getting picked. A combination of an unambitious champion and a public willing to pay to see the mismatch.

Exactly.......Moan about Mayweather and Manny all you want.......But I guess you'll be watching....

Either that or people just like watching once in a generation fighters performing.....

They are joke opponents.........

Manny and Floyd should be fighting the likes of Macklin, Barker and Murray like Martinez does......

Khan is a two time champion who has beaten......Maidana, Paulie and judah who are at the top level NOW !!!

God forbid he's ever worthy of Cloud, Bellew, Macklin, Murray or Barker STATUS.....That other respected champions FEAST on......

You go TRUSSMAN!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Khan is trying to fight the best isn't he ???........Guerrero wants to fight Manny who is also one of the best..

So what's your problem ??????????????????

Let me tell you something........Moan about these guys all you like....But their priorities are to provide for themselves and their families first and then worry about legacy and what hypocrites like you think !!

Because If anything happens to the guy in the ring he and they will have to pick up the pieces and live with the consequences long after you've moved on to criticising the NEXT GUY.....

He owes you a PERFORMANCE nothing else !!!!!!!!

WHAOOO HorseY

Why you getting mad at me?

Guerrero signed a contract he must honor it. If they decide to step into the ring for a career then they must toe the line in the correct way. Why should fame and wealth come easy for them? If you want to provide your family with the best in this world them PROVE you are the best or 1 of them. If you can't PROVE you are the best then your family will get what they deserve.

Mayweather can close down a whole fairground because he has proven himself to be the best.

catchweight wrote:You go TRUSSMAN!

Felt I had to educate you Mate...........Glad you took it in the right spirit!!  

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Khan is trying to fight the best isn't he ???........Guerrero wants to fight Manny who is also one of the best..

So what's your problem ??????????????????

Let me tell you something........Moan about these guys all you like....But their priorities are to provide for themselves and their families first and then worry about legacy and what hypocrites like you think !!

Because If anything happens to the guy in the ring he and they will have to pick up the pieces and live with the consequences long after you've moved on to criticising the NEXT GUY.....

He owes you a PERFORMANCE nothing else !!!!!!!!

WHAOOO HorseY

Why you getting mad at me?

Guerrero signed a contract he must honor it. If they decide to step into the ring for a career then they must toe the line in the correct way. Why should fame and wealth come easy for them? If you want to provide your family with the best in this world them PROVE you are the best or 1 of them. If you can't PROVE you are the best then your family will get what they deserve.

Mayweather can close down a whole fairground because he has proven himself to be the best.

Stop the press......Guerrero should honor his contract.......Have you seen it his contract ??

Do you know most Promoters drop their clients and not vice versa........Whether it be the X factor, In the City or in football.......Usually when they stop making money for them...Where is the loyalty there....

Talk to me about contracts.........

If you don't like promoters don't sign up with them but if you do sign expect to dance with the devil in the pale of moonlight.

You sign up with a Promoter so you can get fights..........

It doesn't stop them dumping you when you no longer become an asset..........

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Exactly.......Moan about Mayweather and Manny all you want.......But I guess you'll be watching....

Either that or people just like watching once in a generation fighters performing.....

They are joke opponents.........

Manny and Floyd should be fighting the likes of Macklin, Barker and Murray like Martinez does......

Khan is a two time champion who has beaten......Maidana, Paulie and judah who are at the top level NOW !!!

God forbid he's ever worthy of Cloud, Bellew, Macklin, Murray or Barker STATUS.....That other respected champions FEAST on......

Khan's never fought at welterweight, and judging by his punch resistance at lightweight and light welter, it's not likely to be a good fit for him.

Martinez is fighting top ten contenders, who else should he fight? Michael Spinks?

It doesn't stop them dumping you when you no longer become an asset..........
Ask Tom Stalker

I like my job, my work colleagues and all my bosses. I also think what I get paid is more than reasonable for the job I do. However none of that changes the fact that was someone to offer me twice as much for doing the same thing I would be off in a heartbeat. Not really sure why we would hold boxers up to a different set of standards.

Spinks had never fought at heavy...........

Leonard hadn't fought at middle..............

Duran at middle before Hagler.................

Leonard at 168 before Lalonde....

Manny hadn't fought at 118,122,126,130,135,140,147..........

Mccallum hadn't fought at 160 before kalambay.......

But that's okay with you......right ??

Khan's record is a very good one........end of..

Declare your agenda Haz....For those that don't know you....

Rowley wrote:I like my job, my work colleagues and all my bosses. I also think what I get paid is more than reasonable for the job I do. However none of that changes the fact that was someone to offer me twice as much for doing the same thing I would be off in a heartbeat. Not really sure why we would hold boxers up to a different set of standards.

Shame on you

If I was offered a promotion right now I would turn it down because I know I am not ready for the job and would not offer an exceptable performance.

Rowley wrote:

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
There was atime when the best fought the best was there not?

When?

The systems we used to have -- a single champion and a standard set of rankings were more conducive to the best fighters in a single division facing their peers. Wasn’t fool proof of course (what is?), history is littered with examples of crooked ratings and champions pirouetting their way around danger men but it was a damn sight better than what we have now.

Khan has “earned” a fight with Mayweather based on his Twitter following. He’s never fought at 147 before. I just find that flabbergasting.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Spinks had never fought at heavy...........

Leonard hadn't fought at middle..............

Duran at middle before Hagler.................

Leonard at 168 before Lalonde....

Manny hadn't fought at 118,122,126,130,135,140,147..........

Mccallum hadn't fought at 160 before kalambay.......

But that's okay with you......right ??

Khan's record is a very good one........end of..

Declare your agenda Haz....For those that don't know you....

I don't have an agenda. You do and you assume I must have one as I don't go along with your dribble. You've already admitted on here that you don't want Mayweather to take a competitive fight as you want him to retire undefeated. The Khan fight is right up your street in that regard but trying to justify his worthiness is ridiculous.

Spinks, Leonard, Hearns etc. had proven themselves as bosses of a division below that they then challenged at. There's a big difference between that and Khan beating a couple of top ten contenders.

Khan's career is Ok (in world class terms) but he looked shot in his last fight. Suits you, though, FLUFFMAN. The rest of us just want competitive fights.

Is this before or after Johnson and Dempsey avoided the best or before or after the mafia were heavily involved in the sport during the 40s and 50s .......

or maybe in the 60s when liston got ducked......

Or before or after Larry ducked Page........and honey fought the likes of hatcher, bumphus and vaca while he was undisputed.

You want to read more haz........

Haz, I did not argue there have not been times when the system has not been better but this idea there was some halcyon days when the best fought the best and anybody who deserved their shot received it is pretty much arse gravy, annoys me to see it perpetuated.

 

hazharrison wrote:

Rowley wrote:

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
There was atime when the best fought the best was there not?

When?

The systems we used to have -- a single champion and a standard set of rankings were more conducive to the best fighters in a single division facing their peers. Wasn’t fool proof of course (what is?), history is littered with examples of crooked ratings and champions pirouetting their way around danger men but it was a damn sight better than what we have now.

Khan has “earned” a fight with Mayweather based on his Twitter following. He’s never fought at 147 before. I just find that flabbergasting.

        

You used to call Khan worse than rotten Truss, his stock has seem to risen with you since the Mayweather fighter has been mooted.

Worse fights have happened you're right , however the biggest problem is we've had an opponent for the last 4 years who is Mayweathers biggest risk and he doesn't want to touch him for some reason , instead we have golden boy on a full scale propaganda feeding us Guerrero , Ortiz and Khan.

Either fight Pacquaio or bugger off for me , like I keep saying how anyone can rank him top 10 when he has avoided his greatest challenge bemuses me.

Anyway good to have you back Truss.

All the best Rodders

Rowley wrote:Haz, I did not argue there have not been times when the system has not been better but this idea there was some halcyon days when the best fought the best and anybody who deserved their shot received it is pretty much arse gravy, annoys me to see it perpetuated.

I like haz but everything is black and white with him..........Boxers today are s**te.......They are all duckers..........Peds roam everywhere..........and everything was better in the old days....

It's complete crap........

The mafia ran boxing in New York back in the day..............Be even surprised If some world title fights weren't rigged as well as fighters being held back from fighting for them.....Have my doubts about sharkey-Carnera !!

Boxing was really bent from the 30s to the 50s......

Boxing does suck a little these days...........But come on have some objectivity..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Is this before or after  Johnson and Dempsey avoided the best or before or after the mafia were heavily involved in the sport during the 40s and 50s .......

or maybe in the 60s when liston got ducked......

Or before or after Larry ducked Page........and honey fought the likes of hatcher, bumphus and vaca while he was undisputed.

You want to read more haz........

Yep. Hopefully I'll be as informed as you one day FLUFFMAN. You're a real font of knowledge.

We all know there have been instances such as those above. We'd still be way better off with a single champion who was mandated to take on their top contenders.

Rowley wrote:Haz, I did not argue there have not been times when the system has not been better but this idea there was some halcyon days when the best fought the best and anybody who deserved their shot received it is pretty much arse gravy, annoys me to see it perpetuated.

I agree. Give man a system and he'll find a way to buck it. You'll be pushed to find anyone missing from the ledgers of the likes of Louis, Hagler, Monzon etc., however.

Boxing these days is like speed dating.

Rodney wrote:You used to call Khan worse than rotten Truss, his stock has seem to risen with you since the Mayweather fighter has been mooted.

Worse fights have happened you're right , however the biggest problem is we've had an opponent for the last 4 years who is Mayweathers biggest risk and he doesn't want to touch him for some reason , instead we have golden boy on a full scale propaganda feeding us Guerrero , Ortiz and Khan.

Either fight Pacquaio or bugger off for me , like I keep saying how anyone can rank him top 10 when he has avoided his greatest challenge bemuses me.

Anyway good to have you back Truss.

All the best Rodders

Wrong I said I don't like him......Always rated him as a fighter.........''A poor Man's Tommy Hearns'' is one of the quotes I use regularly..
Thanks for your kind remark but I've always thought he was a top Boxer with a lousy brain...

So just to put it right....Mate !

Rodney wrote:You used to call Khan worse than rotten Truss, his stock has seem to risen with you since the Mayweather fighter has been mooted.

Worse fights have happened you're right , however the biggest problem is we've had an opponent for the last 4 years who is Mayweathers biggest risk and he doesn't want to touch him for some reason , instead we have golden boy on a full scale propaganda feeding us Guerrero , Ortiz and Khan.

Either fight Pacquaio or bugger off for me , like I keep saying how anyone can rank him top 10 when he has avoided his greatest challenge bemuses me.

Anyway good to have you back Truss.

All the best Rodders

You can argue you the same the other way though Rodders, Manny has pulled up trees to make this fight happen let's not forget the I'm scared of needles excuse. Both as bad as each other imo.

I also feel the OP has been harsh calling Guerrero "one step up for a journeyman"

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Rowley wrote:Haz, I did not argue there have not been times when the system has not been better but this idea there was some halcyon days when the best fought the best and anybody who deserved their shot received it is pretty much arse gravy, annoys me to see it perpetuated.

I like haz but everything is black and white with him..........Boxers today are s**te.......They are all duckers..........Peds roam everywhere..........and everything was better in the old days....

It's complete crap........

The mafia ran boxing in New York back in the day..............Be even surprised If some world title fights weren't rigged as well as fighters being held back from fighting for them.....Have my doubts about sharkey-Carnera !!

Boxing was really bent from the 30s to the 50s......

Boxing does suck a little these days...........But come on have some objectivity..

I don't believe all boxers these days are poor -- that's a nonsense; however, fighters today are less schooled than their predecessors. Fighters are preoccupied with strength and conditioning yet few can fight 12 rounds at a good clip. Look at Hopkins. 49 and he's still tying the light heavyweights up in knots. Craft wins over athleticism every time.

It's the system that bugs me more than the fighters. The "elite" fighters pick and choose who they fight more than anytime I can recall and once in a while they'll fight other "elite" fighters to sell tickets, despite the fact they aren't the same size -- which devalues the fight (and has led to the influx of potions and powders). It's garbage.

Sky Sports have just agreed to use Boxing News's independent rankings. It's high time HBO and Showtime (who lets face it can make any fight happen if they throw enough cash at it -- bar Mayweather vs Pacquiao -- did the same).

I'm scared of needles is a fabricated story from Mayweather fans as far as I know. Back when the fight was white hot end of 09 I blamed both , i remember Jeff writing we should turn our back on the both of them as they'll continue to line their pockets on matchups which aren't first choice, wise words he was was right. As time passes the majors blame goes to Mayweather , the whole I want to clean up the sport demands and now i won't deal with Top Rank it's excuse after excuse and I don't know why.

As for Khan a poor mans Tommy Hearns, you're forgetting one thing Tommy could actually dig, Khan can't.

Cheers Rodders

How the hell are they less schooled.........Tunney have more skill than Jones jr ??

You are talking about exceptions to the rule........Not the average boxer...You live in dreamland !!

Have you seen boxers from the old days fight ??....Fullmer, Basilio, Lamotta all held the title..........More schooled than Kalambay, Nunn, Tate types !!

Re-iterate the mafia ran boxing in New york back in the 30s/40s/50s.

Rodney wrote:I'm scared of needles is a fabricated story from Mayweather fans as far as I know. Back when the fight was white hot end of 09 I blamed both , i remember Jeff writing we should turn our back on the both of them as they'll continue to line their pockets on matchups which aren't first choice, wise words he was was right. As time passes the majors  blame goes to Mayweather , the whole I want to clean up the sport demands and now i won't deal with Top Rank it's excuse after excuse and I don't know why.

As for Khan a poor mans Tommy Hearns, you're forgetting one thing Tommy could actually dig, Khan can't.

Cheers Rodders

And Hearns was a great fighter.

The whole "clean up the sport" thing is a bit disingenuous -- Mayweather uses USADA rather than VADA. VADA testing is the most stringent available. The level of testing Donaire has subjected himself to is a more genuine attempt at cleaning up the sport.

Ask Maidana and Paulie If Khan can dig.......

You have a bunch of heavyweights today who don't know the basic fundamentals can't slip and parry a jab. I don't believe the standard has increased , I'm told Klitschko would hammer Louis because of size , it's utter nonsense.

Cheers Rodders

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:How the hell are they less schooled.........Tunney have more skill than Jones jr ??

You are talking about exceptions to the rule........Not the average boxer...You live in dreamland !!

Have you seen boxers from the old days fight ??....Fullmer, Basilio, Lamotta all held the title..........More schooled than Kalambay, Nunn, Tate types !!

Re-iterate the mafia ran boxing in New york back in the 30s/40s/50s.

 
It depends what you defined as well-schooled. Fullmer, Basilio, Lamotta etc. could all fight inside -- they threw combinations and knew how to pace themselves throughout 15 hectic rounds. They had craft and nous. How many modern fighters have a good inside game?
 
The likes of James Toney, Bernard Hopkins -- Mayweather even -- base their styles on the old masters from the past.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Ask Maidana and Paulie If Khan can dig.......

He could under Alex Ariza.

They all fought with their faces too..........

Still find it hard to see how a guy who beats Maidana, Paulie, Judah, Mcloskey and is outboxing Garcia before he gets caught......(petersen was juicing and didn't deserve to win)......Has won two titles at different weights

Is a joke......but no oans about Macklin, Murray and barjer fighting MARTINEZ....

Maube you can explain it to me ...haz................and cut the never fought at 147 crap..

chavez had never fought at 135 before Rosario.......Gomez at 126 before sanchez etc as you well know.......Or Robbo at 175 before Maxim...

I'll explain it , you have we are told a once in a generation fighter who is avoiding the biggest fight for him , instead we wait 7 months for a fight against a guy whose been spanked at the weight below, it's a disappointing matchup, means nothing.

Cheers Rodders

Why is Manny the biggest fight for him..........He was belted out by JMM and lost to Bradley..........LOST to Bradley........Like LOUIS beat Walcott..........

Manny is a stick for you to beat him with........Because he's very close to entering your precious top 10 of alltime and we can't have a modern fighter doing that....Can we..??

Rodders Mate...

Mayweather isn't close to entering top 10 ATG , you're in denial that Pacquiao isn't the biggest fight for him, when we all know even 4 years too late it's better than the likes of Guerrero . ortiz' and Khan.

Cheers Rodders

Not in denial at all........He's 1 -2.....What is bBadley's record.......and who beat Manny and JMM....

Manny is convenient to you......as a weapon.......

Mayweather is in 30/35 top 10s on here including the Captain's and Chris.....

and they are respected enough for me......and you.

I respect you too.....But you do have a problem with modern fighters mate.....and you know you do !!

Pacman is by far the biggest fight for Mayweather.

If the fight is not made it harms PBF more.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:They all fought with their faces too..........

Still find it hard to see how a guy who beats Maidana, Paulie, Judah, Mcloskey and is outboxing Garcia before he gets caught......(petersen was juicing and didn't deserve to win)......Has won two titles at different weights

Is a joke......but no oans about Macklin, Murray and barjer fighting MARTINEZ....

Maube you can explain it to me ...haz................and cut the never fought at 147 crap..

chavez had never fought at 135 before Rosario.......Gomez at 126 before sanchez etc as you well know.......Or Robbo at 175 before Maxim...

This nonsense that Khan was outboxing Garcia for an amazing grand total of..........

....a round and a half????

This has to stop.

Khan huggers like TRUSS need to stop with this. How was Garcia outboxed? He seemed to be biding his time before he executed Khan Rican style.

Biggest fight financially.....But not the most worthy opponent........

A guy Bradley beat has just become world champion.......He's beaten Manny and Mayweather.......

manny is 1 -2.....and his 1 is against a guy that lost to alvarado who lost to a recent Bradley victim..

Rodders wasn't talking financially and neither was I..........

Why is Martinez always being dragged into this? Who would you rather he fought, other than GGG (Which simply isn't gonna happen unless someone puts the money up)? He's fought in a poor MW era, but he's acquitted himself well enough. Criticising the quality of a fighters opposition indicates there were alternatives he ducked, who would you rather he fought?

As for the OP - Pretty harsh, I thought - We can't moan about fighters not fighting the best, and then critique one who wants a shot at the second best in his generation, having already fought the best. I think Manny turns him inside out, but it seems like a double standard to continuously criticise modern fighters for not fighting the best, and then criticise a fighters who wants to fight the best...

Martinez is above reproach and his opposition is of a lesser standard..

I thought that was bleeding obvious.........

Martinez can always move up......Floyd and Manny have.....

Why moan about Khan when he is better than Barker, macklin and Murray..

He did move up - hence he is a TWO division champion - I'd hate to bring up past posts from you moaning about how difficult it was to go from 122-126, to illustrate the difficulty of going from 154-160...

So you should have more time for Floyd going from 130-154 then shouldn't you !!!

Physician heal thyself.....

"Why moan about Khan when he is better than Barker, macklin and Murray.."

That's a rather big assumption you make...

In 10 years time Khans career won't be much above there's after he retires with a record of 30-10.

At least the above are thought of as decent people outside the ring. Same couldn't be levelled at Khan.