Which player from your nations most likely first choice starting XV would you miss the most if he was unavailable...?

The injury count pre-Six Nations starts at the close of the Autumn internationals and is an endless torrent of good and bad news. Some players returning others getting injured until the actual teams are announced and everyone has survived the intensive conditioning levels set by International coaches no players are guaranteed.

But who would be your Nations most critical absentee...?

Dan Cole by some margin I think, given that Wilson is already injured.

Tuilagi being out is also a big one.

It used to be Carter, then McCaw and now it's Read. And Snake gets overlooked once again. But that's what happens when you don't have problems with injury (concussion not counting). What is it with the scrawny players like Ben Smith or Conrad and their lack of injuries? Is being solidly built a hindrance?

Getting sidetracked. Kieran Read is definitely the talisman player now.

1/2p is the Welsh talisman but I think Alun Wyn is the beating heart of the team

Dontheman wrote:1/2p is the Welsh talisman but I think Alun Wyn is the beating heart of the team

Whilst I agree on both accounts I think JD will be a huge loss for us this season.

Tuilagi without a DOUBT. England would have beaten NZ again last autumn had he been there. Tomkins had a nightmare of a game. But its a silly post really as its a team game.

Probably Laidlaw or Denton

Willie le Roux, he is the only player who currently brings any unpredictable play to our team.

englandglory4ever wrote:Tuilagi without a DOUBT. England would have beaten NZ again last autumn had he been there. Tomkins had a nightmare of a game. But its a silly post really as its a team game.

Why? Would he have taken over the lineout throwing?  Or cooking the team meals for NZ during the week?

thomh wrote:Dan Cole by some margin I think, given that Wilson is already injured.

Tuilagi being out is also a big one.

Agreed.
Although at fly half England's cupboard is essentially bare with flood and wilkinson both making themselves unavailable and burns form being off to the point he's not even playing club rugby.
The only cover for Farrell is the uncapped and flawed kid ford and simply not good enough myler.

Certainly in attack tuilagi is the big miss. As England are totally bereft on ideas as to how to creat try's from the back they've been largely reliant on the pack wrestling the ball to the line or moments if individual brilliance, tuilagi has the ability go past or through defenders like no other England player.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:It used to be Carter, then McCaw and now it's Read. And Snake gets overlooked once again. But that's what happens when you don't have problems with injury (concussion not counting). What is it with the scrawny players like Ben Smith or Conrad and their lack of injuries? Is being solidly built a hindrance?

Getting sidetracked. Kieran Read is definitely the talisman player now.

Hard to disagree with Read or that Conrad Smith is somehow likely to be overlooked. I wonder about NZ without Sam Whitelock. He does a lot of silent grunt work and is instrumental in taking apart opposition lineouts at key moments of recent times, a thing NZ used to struggle with.

englandglory4ever wrote:Tuilagi without a DOUBT. England would have beaten NZ again last autumn had he been there. Tomkins had a nightmare of a game. But its a silly post really as its a team game.

Quite a bold statement given that it's hardly a guarantee Tuilagi would have been as penetrative as he was in 2012 had he been fit. Additionally NZ might have wised up to him defensively.

For Wales it has to be Halfpenny atm, not that it helps much given that most of the players around him play in such poor structure and Halfpenny himself looks mainly restricted to defence and kicking duties.

Knowsit17 wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:Tuilagi without a DOUBT. England would have beaten NZ again last autumn had he been there. Tomkins had a nightmare of a game. But its a silly post really as its a team game.

Quite a bold statement given that it's hardly a guarantee Tuilagi would have been as penetrative as he was in 2012 had he been fit. Additionally NZ might have wised up to him defensively.

For Wales it has to be Halfpenny atm, not that it helps much given that most of the players around him play in such poor structure and Halfpenny himself looks mainly restricted to defence and kicking duties.

There's only so much you can wise up to that much pace and power, especially when his offload is better than people realise. I'm not as sure that we'd have won the game with him, but he has been a big loss.

Not taking anything away from Tuilagi, he is a consistent threat against most if not all top sides. Anything can be contained though. Significantly, I thought Wales repelled and nullified Tuilagi exceptionally well when they last played England and, needless to say, NZ are several classes above this current Welsh side.

Tuilagi by a country mile. I'd agree with the statement above. The main difference between England vs NZ from 2012 to 2013 was the lack of threat at 13. It would have been closer or even an England win.

Knowsit17 wrote:Not taking anything away from Tuilagi, he is a consistent threat against most if not all top sides. Anything can be contained though. Significantly, I thought Wales repelled and nullified Tuilagi exceptionally well when they last played England and, needless to say, NZ are several classes above this current Welsh side.

See, I thought Tuilagi just played a shocker that day. He could have scored/created two tries if his handling/vision hadn't let him down. Anyway, if sides put too much emphasis on stopping one player that should just open space elsewhere, provided you have a fly half who can spread the ball fast and wide...

Actually, I'm starting to see your point.

When Phil vickery retires that will be a huge loss

Either Alyn Wyn or Toby Falateau for us

Who do we have when Toby is out, yes Ryan but i much prefer Ryan at blindside; Even so, what i Ryan is out as well. Toby is very important to our whole set up

Alyn wyn like somebody has already said is the heart beat of our pack, yes we have great depth at lock but no one replaces Alyn Wyn. Still don't understand how he isn't captain

From a Scottish perspective that's very hard, but I think Laidlaw is a good shout.

Or Rennie actually but that feels like a copout because is ... injured. Not that he would be necessarily played with our current interim coach's insistence on playing our captain in that position when he's clearly better in a different one.

A case could also be made for any of Scott or Hogg or Grant.

Lack of forwards mentioned because we actually have quite good depth (for Scotland) from 4-8 for it not to be the *biggest* injury worry.

Read a Conrad Smith definitely the hardest to replace. We have no obvious no. 8 replacement, Vito the only one with reasonable test experience. Oddly Nonu would be next, we're weak there too and 2013 was one of his best years. Elsewhere in the backs we have a surplus if anything. Our front row isnt at its best either.

Ireland BOD
Wales Adam Jones
England Manu
Scotland i don't know
Italy Sergio
France no clue
Aus Cooper
NZ Mccaw
SA Not sure

For Wales it's a tough call, AW or Halfpenny would make a huge difference. Maybe more so Halfpenny because of his kicking accuracy.

Probably Fofana for France, doesnt matter how crap France is, he can create try opportunities on his own. Not the best team player though.

Ireland will miss SOB massively, quite simply he brings so much to the team both in attack and defence. POC is still one of the best locks in the world IMO and his leadership is also very important. We missed him badly last year. We also don't have replacements of anything near his calibre and experience.

BOD wouldn't be much of a loss compared to these two.

Jhamer25 wrote:Either Alyn Wyn or Toby Falateau for us

Who do we have when Toby is out, yes Ryan but i much prefer Ryan at blindside; Even so, what i Ryan is out as well. Toby is very important to our whole set up

Alyn wyn like somebody has already said is the heart beat of our pack, yes we have great depth at lock but no one replaces Alyn Wyn. Still don't understand how he isn't captain

I do agree if Sam is injured again why doesn't he stand down. Didn't cover himself with glory in the AIs and I think in close games like Aus belief in your captain could be a small factor which makes a big difference

I still think it's Sexton for Ireland, even though he has been in poor form in the Top14 and our younger 10s are improving all the time.

It used to be BOD. Irelands win ratio without him is much smaller thsn with.

SOB and Ferris are big losses IMO.

Dont get me wrong, losing Penny would be a big loss because he is a great player. However we could put out decent fullbacks and Biggar can kick almost as well. I think losing, Adam, Alun wyn, Toby, Jd2 and North would all be worse for our performance.

Dan Cole would be a huge loss, I'd also say Billy Vunipola would be a huge loss. I don't believe Morgan deserves or is ready to start games. Although he could easily prove me wrong being at the back of a decent scrum.

Dusautoir out for 4 month. Will find out how much we miss him although there is plenty of depth in terms of flankers. Am more worried about Guitoune who just caught an ankle injury against gloucester. Bloody hc taking its toll on french teams

For SA it has to be F Louw. Meyer has not developed a like for like replacement. He is so important for SA as seen in the test drawn to Argentina in 2012 and Scotland test in SA last year. Coetzee and Kolisi are good players but not nearly as effective as Louw.

I think there is great strength in depth in Wales; when (a) WQ player[s] (is) [are] unavailable, there (is) [are] (an)other WQ player[s] who can step in and replace (him) [them], IMO.

*The above sentence has a double meaning. Please read the letters/words within the rounded brackets and ignore the letters/words within the square brackets to obtain the first meaning. Please do the opposite to obtain the second meaning.

From a Scotland perspective, losing any of Hogg, Laidlaw, Swinson or Scott (in that order) would be enough for me to start a victim support group in the Murrayfield car park.

George Carlin wrote:From a Scotland perspective, losing any of Hogg, Laidlaw, Swinson or Scott (in that order) would be enough for me to start a victim support group in the Murrayfield car park.

Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't Swinson got next to no experience with Scotland? If so it's hard to appreciate how his impact would be significantly missed or how he might be described as a talisman as these are generally players who have won a fair few caps and been consistently impressive throughout, even when all else around them seems to be failing.

Last year I'd have said Picamoles for France. Not sure how he's been doing since.

Knowsit17 wrote:

George Carlin wrote:From a Scotland perspective, losing any of Hogg, Laidlaw, Swinson or Scott (in that order) would be enough for me to start a victim support group in the Murrayfield car park.

Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't Swinson got next to no experience with Scotland? If so it's hard to appreciate how his impact would be significantly missed or how he might be described as a talisman as these are generally players who have won a fair few caps and been consistently impressive throughout, even when all else around them seems to be failing.

Last year I'd have said Picamoles for France. Not sure how he's been doing since.

It's a fair point Knowsit but I would wager that given Swinson's immense impact in the Quadrangular and his form for Glasgow, 9 Scots posters out of 10 would have him down as the best SQ lock currently playing. I certainly do - he brings the priceless quality of aggression. How many caps our lads have is sadly no indication of how much they're going to contribute to the team.

I mention him because we have suffered a little in the tight over the years - only now do we have serious boiler room options.

Clearly Cole for me, followed by Robshaw then Farrell/Wood

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Dontheman wrote:1/2p is the Welsh talisman but I think Alun Wyn is the beating heart of the team

Whilst I agree on both accounts I think JD will be a huge loss for us this season.

+1 to that. Funny to think around this time last season, people were calling for him to be dropped, because he was so poor and couldn't even throw a pass straight, and now he is seen as the key to our attacking play.

I think JD is a better passer of the ball than most give him credit for, it may not be his strongest point but its not as bad as some suggest.

IMO JD2 is almost essential for Wales - the only player in the backs who has the ability to make breaks and to give players in space passes. ( bar 1/2p who seems to be told not to) Without him they simply have nothing bar bish bash bosh in the centres.

TJ,

I agree though wouldn't say Sc Williams is all bish bosh, in fact as much as Roberts is the main gog in Gatlands game plan I would be more than happy to see Williams and Davies take us forward.

Got to agree about Manu Tuilagi - when on form he's very difficult to stop.

Cole is important but if Wilson is fit his impact isn't felt as much as the loss of Manu.

At 13 there is a big difference between Manu and the competitors.

Sean O'Brien....which is a tad unfortunate because he is indeed missing.

If I had to pick one player for Scotland it would be Greg Laidlaw. He organises the pack, plays in the pivotal role of scrum half and is our best goal kicker by a country mile.

Behind that would be Matt Scott followed by Stuart Hogg.

Although we have important players in the forwards, we have enough depth there to replace any one individual.

We do have good back up for Laidlaw in Cusitor tho

Yes, but Cusiter cannot kick goals with unerring accuracy, and none of our fly half options, nor any other players in the side, can kick goals to the required standard of an international fly half (or at least they haven't done so thus far).

Jackson, Weir and Hogg can all kick, but none to my knowledge comes close to Laidlaw's % (nor Farrell, Halfpenny or Sexton).

Give Hogg he goalkicking if Cusitor and Jackson were playing

Hogg is not a consistent goal kicker. If that if your best option, then clearly my selection of Laidlaw is correct.

England's biggest loss for me would be Tom Wood, as he offers a good balance to Chris Robshaw on the other flank and does an awful lot of dirty work that goes "unseen".

Wales as stated would be lost without either 1/2p or AWJ, but you could also make a case for George North and Jamie Roberts - Wales seem to play much better when Desperate Dan is on the pitch.

I think the Wales v England 6N last season highlighted the impact of not having a specialist 8 that could get over the gain line. The loss of Morgan from last seasons campaign was huge.
Now fortunately there is adequate cover in Billy V.

propdavid_london wrote:I think the Wales v England 6N last season highlighted the impact of not having a specialist 8 that could get over the gain line.  The loss of Morgan from last seasons campaign was huge.  
Now fortunately there is adequate cover in Billy V.

Who would you say is in front at the moment? Billy V has been getting some rave reviews and was a monster vs Connacht. Apparently Morgan played well yesterday though I've not seen it. Either way we've got excellent back-up there compared to where we were last year