Scotland A v England Saxons, 31 January

Scotland A v England Saxons
Friday 31 January 2014, kick-off 7.30pm
Scotstoun Stadium, Glasgow

Referee: [tbc]
Assistant Referees: [tbc]
Citing Commissioner: [tbc]

A. Squads

1. Scotland A

Forwards – Olly Atkins (Edinburgh Rugby), Fraser Brown, Kevin Bryce (both Glasgow Warriors), Blair Cowan (London Irish), Jonny Gray, Robert Harley (both Glasgow Warriors), Allister Hogg (Newcastle Falcons), Tyrone Holmes, Ed Kalman (both Glasgow Warriors), Kieran Low (London Irish), Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors), Grant Shiells (Newcastle Falcons) and Jon Welsh (Glasgow Warriors)

Backs – Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors), Jack Cuthbert, Dougie Fife (both Edinburgh Rugby), Alex Grove (Worcester Warriors), Grayson Hart (Edinburgh Rugby), Tom Heathcote (Bath Rugby), Byron McGuigan, Henry Pyrgos (both Glasgow Warriors), Greig Tonks (Edinburgh Rugby) and Richie Vernon (Glasgow Warriors)

2. Saxons

Forwards - Nathan Catt (Bath Rugby) Calum Clark (NorthamptonSaints) Sam Dickinson (NorthamptonSaints) Dave Ewers (Exeter Chiefs) Jamie George (Saracens) George Kruis (Saracens) Charlie Matthews (Harlequins) Tom Mercey (NorthamptonSaints) Elliott Stooke (GloucesterRugby) Luke Wallace (Harlequins) Alex Waller (NorthamptonSaints) Dave Ward (Harlequins) Scott Wilson (Newcastle Falcons)

Backs - Freddie Burns (GloucesterRugby) Elliot Daly (London Wasps) Sam Hill (Exeter Chiefs) Matt Hopper (Harlequins) Dave Lewis (Exeter Chiefs) Rob Miller (Sale Sharks) Joe Simpson (London Wasps) Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs) Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath Rugby) Tom Varndell (London Wasps)

B. Previous Form

1 February 2013, Kingston Park
England Saxons 9 Scotland A 13

3 February 2012, Galashiels
Scotland A 35 England Saxons 0

C. Teams

England Saxons: 15 Miller (Sale), 14 Rokoduguni (Bath), 13 Daly (Wasps), 12 Eastmond (Bath), 11 Thompstone (Leicester), 10 Burns (Gloucester), 9 Robson (Gloucester); 1 Waller (Northampton), 2 Ward (Harlequins), 3 Wilson (Newcastle), 4 Stooke (Gloucester), 5 Kruis (Saracens), 6 Clark (Northampton, capt), 7 Wallace (Harlequins), 8 Dickinson (Northampton)

Replacements: 16 George (Saracens), 17 Catt (Bath), 18 Brookes (Newcastle), 19 Matthews (Harlequins), 20 Ewers (Exeter), 21 Simpson (Wasps), 22 Slade (Exeter), 23 Sharples (Gloucester)

Scotland A: 15 Cuthbert (Edinburgh), 14 Fife (Edinburgh), 13 Bennett (Glasgow), 12 Grove (Worcester), 11 McGuigan (Glasgow), 10 Tonks (Edinburgh), 9 Pyrgos (Glasgow); 1 Reid (Glasgow), 2 Brown (Glasgow), 3 Welsh (Glasgow), 4 Low (London Irish), 5 Gray (Glasgow, capt), 6 Harley (Glasgow), 7 Cowan (London Irish), 8 Hogg (Newcastle)

Replacements: 16 Bryce (Glasgow), 17 Allan (Edinburgh), 18 Kalman (Glasgow), 19 Atkins (Edinburgh), 20 Holmes (Glasgow), 21 Hart (Edinburgh), 22 Heathcote (Bath), 23 Vernon (Glasgow)

1. Where are Barclay and Grant?

2.   

Eh, there's only one winger in that squad. What are they up to now, Vernon on the wing?

This is disgraceful. I can only imagine something has happened with Barclay behind the scenes prompting him not to be in the squad. But why go with Hogg when you could play Watson? or Adam Ashe?!

My head is now getting sore from the continuous face palming...

Any English supporters who don't know some of these names, don't bother you've won anyway.

justified sinner wrote:Eh, there's only one winger in that squad. What are they up to now, Vernon on the wing?

Cuthbert and Fife.

So Heathcoate at 10 and Tonks at 15.

England squad for the game is actually:

England Saxons Forwards (13) Nathan Catt (Bath Rugby) Calum Clark (NorthamptonSaints) Sam Dickinson (NorthamptonSaints) Dave Ewers (Exeter Chiefs) Jamie George (Saracens) George Kruis (Saracens) Charlie Matthews (Harlequins) Tom Mercey (NorthamptonSaints) Elliott Stooke (GloucesterRugby) Luke Wallace (Harlequins) Alex Waller (NorthamptonSaints) Dave Ward (Harlequins) Scott Wilson (Newcastle Falcons)

Backs (10) Freddie Burns (GloucesterRugby) Elliot Daly (London Wasps) Sam Hill (Exeter Chiefs) Matt Hopper (Harlequins) Dave Lewis (Exeter Chiefs) Rob Miller (Sale Sharks) Joe Simpson (London Wasps) Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs) Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath Rugby) Tom Varndell (London Wasps)

I hope the England team looks more like:

1. Waller
2. George
3. Mercy
4. Stooke
5. Kruis
6. Ewers
7. Wallace
8. Dickinson
9. Lewis
10. Burns
11. Rokodeguni
12. Hill
13. Daly
14. Varndell
15. Miller

Bench: Catt, Ward, Wilson, Matthews, Clark, Simpson, Slade, Hopper.

Real shame both Kitchener and Benjamin have had to pull out they both have the quality to put pressure on the EPS. Daly is a real talent at 13 or 15 I'm hoping he uses this as a very swift step up to the first team. Not sure what the benefit in Clark being there is, we have better flankers available and flankers that would benefit more from the experience.

demosthenes wrote:

justified sinner wrote:Eh, there's only one winger in that squad. What are they up to now, Vernon on the wing?

Cuthbert and Fife.

So Heathcoate at 10 and Tonks at 15.

Cuthbert is not a winger. We saw that very clearly at Embra earlier in the season. OK club 15 though.

Nematode wrote:This is disgraceful. I can only imagine something has happened with Barclay behind the scenes prompting him not to be in the squad. But why go with Hogg when you could play Watson? or Adam Ashe?!  

My head is now getting sore from the continuous face palming...

Any English supporters who don't know some of these names, don't bother you've won anyway.

Its long over due Hogg was in the Scottish set up, still got a good few years left in him and one of the best back rowers
Scotland have got added to that he is a good leader which Scotland don't have many off at the moment, lots of good players
but not experienced leaders!

Thanks Sam - Saxons squad updated.

If anyone can remind me of England A (Saxons) v Scotland A results for 2011 and beforehand, I would be grateful because I can't bloody find any on tinternet.

Interesting to compare the teams that hit out last year:

Saxons:

15	FB	Elliot Daly
14	W	Jonny May
13	C	Joel Tomkins
12	C	Jordan Turner-Hall
11	W	Tom Biggs
10	FH	George Ford
9	SH	Richard Wigglesworth
1	P	Matt Mullan
2	H	Joe Gray
3	P	Paul Doran Jones
4	L	Graham Kitchener
5	L	George Robson
6	F	George Kruis
7	F	Will Fraser
8	N8	Jordan Crane

		Replacements
16	R	Rob Buchanan
17	R	Nick Wood
18	R	Kieran Brookes
19	R	Ed Slater
20	R	Jamie Gibson
21	R	Joe Simpson
22	R	George Lowe
23	R	Kyle Eastmond

Scotland A:

15	FB	Greig Tonks
14	W	Duncan Taylor
13	C	Alex Grove
12	C	Alex Dunbar
11	W	Nikki Walker
10	FH	Tom Heathcote
9	SH	Sean Kennedy
1	P	Alasdair Dickinson
2	H	Steven Lawrie
3	P	Jon Welsh 77
4	L	Tim Swinson
5	L	Tom Ryder
6	F	Stuart McInally
7	F	Richie Vernon
8	N8	Ryan Wilson

		Replacements
16		Alun Walker
17	R	Gordon Reid 75
18	R	Grant Shiells
19		Robert McAlpine
20	R	James Eddie
21		Jamie Stevenson
22	R	Ben Cairns
23	R	Dougie Fife

I am not knowledgeable enough on the Saxons to comment on the comparison, but for Scotland I don't think that the Scotland A squad is as strong this year. Just looking at the bench will tell you that.

Hopefully we'll see a Saxons line up of:

1. Waller
2. George
3. Mercy
4. Matthews
5. Kruis
6. Clark
7. Wallace
8. Ewers
9. Lewis
10. Burns
11. Rokodeguni
12. Hill
13. Daly
14. Varndell
15. Miller

In particular looking forward to seeing that backrow at work, a lot of impact there! Daly and Hill could be an amazing centre pairing, could easily be playing those positions for England after 2015.

Must be one of the youngest Saxons squads we've ever had with only a couple of oldies (late 20's!) in there and a big dose of the U20's.

justified sinner wrote:

demosthenes wrote:

justified sinner wrote:Eh, there's only one winger in that squad. What are they up to now, Vernon on the wing?

Cuthbert and Fife.

So Heathcoate at 10 and Tonks at 15.

Cuthbert is not a winger. We saw that very clearly at Embra earlier in the season. OK club 15 though.

Your view. And mine. But not the managements?

Thought Tom Brown was in the squad?

Also I'd put a lot of money on Tonks being picked at 10, not Heathcoat.

yappysnap wrote:Hopefully we'll see a Saxons line up of:

1. Waller
2. George
3. Mercy
4. Matthews
5. Kruis
6. Clark
7. Wallace
8. Ewers
9. Lewis
10. Burns
11. Rokodeguni
12. Hill
13. Daly
14. Varndell
15. Miller

In particular looking forward to seeing that backrow at work, a lot of impact there! Daly and Hill could be an amazing centre pairing, could easily be playing those positions for England after 2015.

Must be one of the youngest Saxons squads we've ever had with only a couple of oldies (late 20's!) in there and a big dose of the U20's.

Yappy - can you share your thoughts with the uninitiated (me) about the Saxons that you're most excited about and why?

If I may, I'll give my thoughts on the prospective Saxons team (mine would be pretty close to yappysnap's)

Front row - Waller has looked really good in place of Corbisiero, and the best praise I can give him is that Corbs has not been missed a great deal by Northampton. George is excellent around the park at hooker, there have been questions over his lineout throwing although some say he has improved there. Mercey has come in due to a lack of tightheads around, Collier was due to start but got injured, I don't think he will let anyone down.

Locks - great looking trio available - Matthews, Kruis and Stooke - all young (Kruis the oldest at 23!) powerful and athletic around the park. Kruis offers the club link at line out time with George. I think he will start with Matthews

Back row - Good old Callum Clark is likely to start, I think he has been playing well recently so deserves a go. Harlequins have played Robshaw at 6 to accommodate Wallace at 7, and he has looked very good, definitely want to see how Ewers goes, as he looks to have serious carrying from 8.

Half backs - Burns should get some good ball from that pack, hopefully he can show that his form at Gloucester is due to the pack! Would have liked Dan Robson at 9, but Lewis has played well in the HC and has the club link with Ewers

Centres - I (and many others) hope to see Daly at 13 with Hill at inside centre, think that partnership could really sparkle if given a go. There's a decent bet that Daly plays 15 though, with Hopper at 13.

Back 3 - Varndell is the speedster, Roko (eligibility issues aside) will offer power and ability to come in to the line, don't know a whole lot about Miller if he plays at 15, Daly will probably light it up from there if he does start at full back

Also worth noting with regards to Scottish wingers that players from the main squad will be made available - likely to be Fife and Seymour on the wings for the A team.

Got to say I really like the look of that potential England saxons pack.

Sharples has been brought in for Varndell who was unfortunately injured. I hope he could be back for this game but not too sure on the injury. I think he may have damaged his bicep in the last wasps game.

Wingers dropping like flies atm.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Also worth noting with regards to Scottish wingers that players from the main squad will be made available - likely to be Fife and Seymour on the wings for the A team.

Oh god - please tell me that we aren't playing Lamont instead of Seymour against Ireland?

Surely if anyone plays for the As it will be Lamont (unless he is on the bench as a wing and centre)? I would rather have Max "SG" Evans than either Barry or Cuthbert. Glacial cracks move faster than Cuthbert.

BamBam wrote:If I may, I'll give my thoughts on the prospective Saxons team (mine would be pretty close to yappysnap's)

Front row - Waller has looked really good in place of Corbisiero, and the best praise I can give him is that Corbs has not been missed a great deal by Northampton. George is excellent around the park at hooker, there have been questions over his lineout throwing although some say he has improved there. Mercey has come in due to a lack of tightheads around, Collier was due to start but got injured, I don't think he will let anyone down.

Locks - great looking trio available - Matthews, Kruis and Stooke - all young (Kruis the oldest at 23!) powerful and athletic around the park. Kruis offers the club link at line out time with George. I think he will start with Matthews

Back row - Good old Callum Clark is likely to start, I think he has been playing well recently so deserves a go. Harlequins have played Robshaw at 6 to accommodate Wallace at 7, and he has looked very good, definitely want to see how Ewers goes, as he looks to have serious carrying from 8.

Half backs - Burns should get some good ball from that pack, hopefully he can show that his form at Gloucester is due to the pack! Would have liked Dan Robson at 9, but Lewis has played well in the HC and has the club link with Ewers

Centres - I (and many others) hope to see Daly at 13 with Hill at inside centre, think that partnership could really sparkle if given a go. There's a decent bet that Daly plays 15 though, with Hopper at 13.

Back 3 - Varndell is the speedster, Roko (eligibility issues aside) will offer power and ability to come in to the line, don't know a whole lot about Miller if he plays at 15, Daly will probably light it up from there if he does start at full back

Good effort BB.

I think SJ will pick Lamont, plus there's absolutely no point in putting Lamont in the A team!

RDW_Scotland wrote:I think SJ will pick Lamont, plus there's absolutely no point in putting Lamont in the A team!

Really?

Tommy Seymour - 5 caps - 2 tries - tries per game: 0.40
Sean Lamont - 82 caps - 12 tries - tries per game: 0.146

I actually want to try and win the game against Ireland.
Or is that new green badge you have an indicator of a hidden allegiance?  

That blue badge has obviously impaired your reading ability – I said I think SJ will put Lamont in the team, not that I would!   

Actually, saying that I probably would – considering how very inexperienced our 12-13 combo is likely to be, combined with that fact that Maitland and Hogg don’t have too many caps between then, I think we need him in there for his leadership, determination and commitment!

Also using tries scored as justification when the guy only has 5 caps, and scored both tries against Japan – not the most robust argument!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Also using tries scored as justification when the guy only has 5 caps, and scored both tries against Japan – not the most robust argument!

Plus if you look at Sean Lamonts recent try scoring record it isn't actually too bad.

You need to look at Shlong's try record post Dan Parks/Graeme Morrison/Andy Henderson

I dunno the actual numbers but seymour probs got the ball 4 or 5 times in the opposition 22. Shlong could go whole matches without getting the ball in the opposition 22 with those three inside him!.

Don’t get me wrong – Shlong’s try scoring record is truly awful for an international winger, but that can’t be used as justification for current form

So just to be clear, the argument is Schlong has a better scoring record *morally*? 

As a Falcons fan it will be interesting to see how Grant Sheils goes against his club mate! (Assuming they are on the pitch at the same time). I'm not 100% confident with Tom Mercey, the Saints scrum looks worse when he comes on and I reckon Sheills could get at him.

The second row partnership for the Saxons looks big and athletic, but Ollie Atkins and Jonny Gray don’t look small either. What sort of players are they? Is Jonny like his brother, a bit more athletic… Or does he have a bit of b@stard about him?

Is Tonks at ten a recent thing? I remember him almost exclusively as a 15 throughout the age grades.

Atkins and Gray jnr are very athletic locks, and Jonny definitely has more of a harder edge than his brother.  Both are pretty inexperienced at pro level though.

Tonks has played the last 6 games at 10, including 4 Heineken cup games and Glasgow and Leinster in the pro 12, so he's been fairly well tested there.  He has generally played well in those games - massive boot on him and strong defensively..

Our 'A' squad further underlines how shallow our player pool really is. Alot of the guys selected struggle to make the bench at their clubs, if the club is a full strength.

Interesting to compare with last year's selection, Kennedy was at 9 but he hasn't really got much game time this season and now seems to be behind Hart in the pecking order. We know what Pyrgos offers at this level, I'd like to see Hart get a decent amount of game time in the A matches.

Just a shame to be honest. Feel younger and experienced players have been missed. I can think of:

Barclay, Grant, Eddie, Ashe, Farndale, Russell, Kennedy etc

Cumbrian wrote:As a Falcons fan it will be interesting to see how Grant Sheils goes against his club mate! (Assuming they are on the pitch at the same time).  I'm not 100% confident with Tom Mercey, the Saints scrum looks worse when he comes on and I reckon Sheills could get at him.

The second row partnership for the Saxons looks big and athletic, but Ollie Atkins and Jonny Gray don’t look small either.  What sort of players are they?  Is Jonny like his brother, a bit more athletic… Or does he have a bit of b@stard about him?

Cumbrian - the Scotland pack is actually good, but we are completely fecked if we get even one injury. Atkins is 6'7" and 18 and a half stone, Ickle Jon is 6'6" and fully 19 stones. Both are very mobile and Gray definitely has a bit of dog to him. Atkins is relatively untested but massively promising.

Shiells is quality, Bryce (currently on loan to Irish) is a terrier and Jon Welsh is whom a lot of Scotland fans believe should have the 3 shirt.

Holmes has been superb for Glasgow, Rob Harley is not called the Ginger Tackle Monster for no reason and you know all about Mr Hogg. Great balance to the backrow.

It's the backs that I'm really worried about. Hart and Heathcote aren't exactly swimming in recent game time.

George Carlin wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:As a Falcons fan it will be interesting to see how Grant Sheils goes against his club mate! (Assuming they are on the pitch at the same time).  I'm not 100% confident with Tom Mercey, the Saints scrum looks worse when he comes on and I reckon Sheills could get at him.

The second row partnership for the Saxons looks big and athletic, but Ollie Atkins and Jonny Gray don’t look small either.  What sort of players are they?  Is Jonny like his brother, a bit more athletic… Or does he have a bit of b@stard about him?

Cumbrian - the Scotland pack is actually good, but we are completely fecked if we get even one injury. Atkins is 6'7" and 18 and a half stone, Ickle Jon is 6'6" and fully 19 stones. Both are very mobile and Gray definitely has a bit of dog to him. Atkins is relatively untested but massively promising.

Shiells is quality, Bryce (currently on loan to Irish) is a terrier and Jon Welsh is whom a lot of Scotland fans believe should have the 3 shirt.

Holmes has been superb for Glasgow, Rob Harley is not called the Ginger Tackle Monster for no reason and you know all about Mr Hogg. Great balance to the backrow.

It's the backs that I'm really worried about. Hart and Heathcote aren't exactly swimming in recent game time.

I've seen Cowan playing for London Irish on TV two or three times and he looks really pretty good, very hard working. He might have a realistic chance of stepping up to the main squad over the 6Ns. Seems more visible than his club mate Low.

We need a new name!!!

Scotland A is dull

England have Saxons
Ireland Have Wolfhounds
NZ have Moari

Scotland Cheiftains?

I think Scotland 10, so then we always start with Scotland 100-0England Saxons

Can we beat them again? the last couple of years wins really really amused me especially the stuffing two years ago

Supposedly if Tonks plays well he can get into the full Scotland 23 from SJ. But the he was going to cap Fusaro and Bennett...

SRU Twitter last night confirmed that Low, Tonks, Harley, J Gray and Fife have dropped down to the A squad from the main team.

I think we are going to be putting out a pretty solid team with more than a few trying to stake their claims for the main squad, in particular the five named above.

This is not our second best XV players by a long shot, rather it is about players for the future that will hopefully step up, a development team you might call it. You would hope that they would be hungry and these games don't always go to form. It may be that a lot of the English players don't really see themselves as having much of a real chance to break through.

On paper we should not have won last year, nor thrashed them the year before. It really is all to play for.

Team for the England Saxons vs Irish wolfhounds game this weekend, gives you chaps an idea of who we will put out

England Saxons
15 Elliot Daly (London Wasps)
14 Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby)
13 Matt Hopper (Harlequins)
12 Sam Hill (Exeter Chiefs)
11 Charlie Sharples (Gloucester Rugby)
10 Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby)
9 Joe Simpson (London Wasps)
1 Alex Waller (Northampton Saints)
2 Jamie George (Saracens)
3 Tom Mercey (Northampton Saints)
4 Charlie Matthews (Harlequins)
5 George Kruis (Saracens)
6 Calum Clark (Northampton Saints, captain)
7 Luke Wallace (Harlequins)
8 Dave Ewers (Exeter Chiefs)

Replacements

16 Dave Ward (Harlequins)
17 Nathan Catt (Bath Rugby)
18 Scott Wilson (Newcastle Falcons)
19 Elliott Stooke (Gloucester Rugby)
20 Sam Dickinson (Northampton Saints)
21 Dave Lewis (Exeter Chiefs)
22 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
23 Rob Miller (Sale Sharks)

BigGee wrote:I think we are going to be putting out a pretty solid team with more than a few trying to stake their claims for the main squad, in particular the five named above.

This is not our second best XV players by a long shot, rather it is about players for the future that will hopefully step up, a development team you might call it. You would hope that they would be hungry and these games don't always go to form. It may be that a lot of the English players don't really see themselves as having much of a real chance to break through.

On paper we should not have won last year, nor thrashed them the year before. It really is all to play for.

I agree - the experience could be very valuable for some of these guys and its a real chance to say "pick me for the 6N"

Yes, what is notworthy is the number of players from the last Scotland A squad who are now set to appear for the first team - it is genuinely a chance to put yourself in the shop window.

BamBam wrote:Team for the England Saxons vs Irish wolfhounds game this weekend, gives you chaps an idea of who we will put out

England Saxons
15 Elliot Daly (London Wasps)
14 Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby)
13 Matt Hopper (Harlequins)
12 Sam Hill (Exeter Chiefs)
11 Charlie Sharples (Gloucester Rugby)
10 Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby)
9 Joe Simpson (London Wasps)
1 Alex Waller (Northampton Saints)
2 Jamie George (Saracens)
3 Tom Mercey (Northampton Saints)
4 Charlie Matthews (Harlequins)
5 George Kruis (Saracens)
6 Calum Clark (Northampton Saints, captain)
7 Luke Wallace (Harlequins)
8 Dave Ewers (Exeter Chiefs)

Replacements

16 Dave Ward (Harlequins)
17 Nathan Catt (Bath Rugby)
18 Scott Wilson (Newcastle Falcons)
19 Elliott Stooke (Gloucester Rugby)
20 Sam Dickinson (Northampton Saints)
21 Dave Lewis (Exeter Chiefs)
22 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
23 Rob Miller (Sale Sharks)

Great to see so many Exe players in the Saxons



Disappointed that Wilson will be gone for Scotland if he comes off the bench   

Yep, Exeter have some great talent at the moment! Great to see for the England team, and Chiefs of course

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Disappointed that Wilson will be gone for Scotland if he comes off the bench   

Have no fear - he will be so overcome at being in the presence of the Messiah that he will immediately switch allegiances!   

The one position I can see Scotland struggling with is IC, there does not seem to be a natural in the squad to fill that position, both Grove and Bennett are natural OC's, though no doubt can both fill in. This does seem to be a problem position for us to fill across the board.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Disappointed that Wilson will be gone for Scotland if he comes off the bench   

Have no fear - he will be so overcome at being in the presence of the Messiah that he will immediately switch allegiances!    

He could always do a Stuart McCall and refuse to come off the bench.