South Africa v Australia, First Test, Centurion

First topic message reminder :

So the much anticipated series is getting underway tomorrow. South Africa, the number 1 side in the world, will be taking on a confident Australia. South Africa have enjoyed a solid stay at the top of the test rankings, for a year and a half, and the Australians are coming into this series after Thumping, Pulverizing, Thrashing, Humiliating and destroying England 5-0 in the recently concluded Ashes series.
Both sides have quality bowling units, and 4 of the top 5 ranked bowlers will be battling it out, and cricinfo points out, that doesn't even include Mitchell Johnson!. And Morne Morkel as well.
Australia are likely to go in with Shaun Marsh and Alex Doolan for the injured Shane Watson and the dropped George Bailey, the rest of their Ashes winning side should stay the same.
South Africa are likely to bring in one of Ryan McLaren and Wayne Parnell, and move Faf du Plessis to 4, as they contemplate life after Kallis. JP Duminy has some injury concerns going into the match, but he is likely to play.

When was the last time when South Africa looked so helpless for such an extended time in a test?

Michael Clarke is an aggressive captain and all, but if he declares today, it'll be downright foolhardy. The South Africans have made a habit of getting out of impossible corners often, there is no need to give them a chance. Another 32 overs remaining today. If they could add another 100 runs, then they would have a lead over 450. Then bat at least up to lunch tomorrow, set SA a target of 550+.
Even then, with Mitchell Johnin the form of his life, I won't rule out Smith's boys.

msp83 wrote:When was the last time when South Africa looked so helpless for such an extended time in a test?

1st Test against Pakistan. But i know what you mean. Sloppy in the field, out of ideas and looking resigned to defeat.

Can they bounce back this time? If any team can it is SA.

Drop the spinner and put an extra batsman in. Duminy can do as well as Tahir/Petersen.

This is truly a pisspoor performance by the Proteas.

In fact, I find them embarresingly poor.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Mike Selig wrote:Australia's session comprehensively.

South Africa finding out how hard it can be when your spinner(s) don't provide any control. Also, they haven't done themselves any favours with 3 dropped chances (one regulation, one very tough, one which probably should be taken).

Warner has done as Warner does - he's the type of player you can definitely afford when you're playing well, when you're playing badly he becomes a bit of a luxury, but I'd still want him in my team.

Philander has looked strangely off colour for me.

Doolan I like the look of. Still early days, but compact, hits the ball nicely, and has a decent range of shots.

Not sure how Doolan and Marsh's first class averages are quite so low - they both look much (as in 10 to 15 runs more) better than that.

Maybe they are much improved cricketers suddenly but this seems to be a theme with the whole aussie camp recently.
Marshs previous test appearances have hardly suggested hes the new Tendulkar have they.

I have no idea what Lehman has them on but it appears to be turd polish.
Hes managed to get Johnson to bowl straight 6 tests in a row now. Spud Smith and Rogers to look like test cricketers. Warners on course for his third century in his last 4 tests...hes only had 10 in 44 first class games!
Harriss has stayed fit even.

Its all a bit sinister when you consider this is not a vastly different team to that which came to england last summer.
I guess it highlights how important mood and psychology is especially in test cricket ... and perhaps why England want to get their dressing room sorted out.

Nothing sinister, Pete. Maybe you just need to watch it all more closely. What more proof do you need? It must be unsettling I know.

Smith has also now scored 4 centuries in his last 6 Tests. He is developing into a very sound Test batsman able to survive a variety of tricky conditions in different locations. He is also the perfect team player and will almost certainly be our next captain. He'd walk into the England team.

I don't know why you have it in for him. If I started picking on some of your players.... the thought of doing that is very depressing! I guess it all starts in the dressing room as you say.

Guildford, no declaration today. It'll pour down in the next 45 mins I'd say.   

Biltong wrote:This is truly a pisspoor performance by the Proteas.

In fact, I find them embarresingly poor.

  I know how you feel, but even more so.

The cameramen in SA love to show the ladies in the crowd   In England they go more with the Barmy Army, Bugs bunny or a sleeping member at Lords.

Guess it is the sunshine that brings so many good lookers out.

skyeman wrote:The cameramen in SA love to show the ladies in the crowd   In England they go more with the Barmy Army, Bugs bunny or a sleeping member at Lords.

Guess it is the sunshine that brings so many good lookers out.

Did you see the one about an hour ago in the grey tank top? Jeez... what a perfect specimen!

The blokes are all buffed for Duty too...  

In fact, the whole place looks quite lush.

My ears are burning somewhat....

Linebreaker wrote:

skyeman wrote:The cameramen in SA love to show the ladies in the crowd   In England they go more with the Barmy Army, Bugs bunny or a sleeping member at Lords.

Guess it is the sunshine that brings so many good lookers out.

Did you see the one a bout an hour ago in the grey tank top?
Jeez... what a perfect specimen!  

The blokes are all buffed for Duty too...   

   


Yes, very fit.

Here we go... some more grass banks shots please.

Honestly, we could chase 600 and I wouldn't be worried...

The team has obviously come in under prepared. I blame this in part on the BCCI changing the schedule, to the degree where 13 international matches became five... Secondly I blame it on CSA, who moved the T20 competition forward, and made our boys play T20 for a month solid, before we got to face Australia. Nonetheless, looking forward to seeing Mitchell tomorrow (hopefully). I've never seen him live, and watching him in his pomp is bucket list material!

Kingraf has tickets for tomorrow. Can he take a banner with hello 606 on it. If he stands next to a peach, he will definitely get a camera shot  

  Speak of the devil.

If you look long enough, you all should see me tomorrow - look out for the chocolate brown specimen with Hendrix-esque hair... I'll be the one with the German girl who looks like she'd rather be eating glass

kingraf wrote:If you look long enough, you all should see me tomorrow - look out for the chocolate brown specimen with Hendrix-esque hair... I'll be the one with the German girl who looks like she'd rather be eating glass

  

Not a cricket lover then...but very romantic for going with you awww

yeah she's not a fan, but she doesn't mind coming, cheap alcohol, lots of sun... fantastic combo.

Cheap alcohol? I paid £6 for a pint at Lords, and that was a while ago.

kingraf wrote:If you look long enough, you all should see me tomorrow - look out for the chocolate brown specimen with Hendrix-esque hair... I'll be the one with the German girl who looks like she'd rather be eating glass

hell, you will have to give us a bit more than that.

All I got from that is look for jimmy Hendrix with a blond girl looking bored.   

using the conversion system, it equates to about 90p at Centurion

kingraf wrote:If you look long enough, you all should see me tomorrow - look out for the chocolate brown specimen with Hendrix-esque hair... I'll be the one with the German girl who looks like she'd rather be eating glass

ha ha. Enjoy the spectacle of Mitch. He's like a big spider the way he moves around the field with his tatts catching the sun at various moments.

Will you be in the Members Area (blue seats) on on the grass bank to the left (on TV) with your German lab assistant, Jimi?

Warner out, but the damage done.

haha Sorry Biltong -

I'll also be surrounded by about 20 similarly drunk gym bunnies!!

kingraf wrote:using the conversion system, it equates to about 90p at Centurion

WTF. I'm coming too  

I've got tix for the grass, LB. Member stands at Centurion generally suck, and make no sense if youre with a large group of people

kingraf wrote:I've got tix for the grass, LB. Member stands at Centurion generally suck, and make no sense if youre with a large group of people

Cool. Much better on the grass banks.

Will keep an eye out for the bloke with a perpetual smile surrounded by some fit looking women.

I like that quote on DRS "it's not the batsmen who get the benefit of the doubt anymore, it is the umpire"

Linebreaker wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Mike Selig wrote:Australia's session comprehensively.

South Africa finding out how hard it can be when your spinner(s) don't provide any control. Also, they haven't done themselves any favours with 3 dropped chances (one regulation, one very tough, one which probably should be taken).

Warner has done as Warner does - he's the type of player you can definitely afford when you're playing well, when you're playing badly he becomes a bit of a luxury, but I'd still want him in my team.

Philander has looked strangely off colour for me.

Doolan I like the look of. Still early days, but compact, hits the ball nicely, and has a decent range of shots.

Not sure how Doolan and Marsh's first class averages are quite so low - they both look much (as in 10 to 15 runs more) better than that.

Maybe they are much improved cricketers suddenly but this seems to be a theme with the whole aussie camp recently.
Marshs previous test appearances have hardly suggested hes the new Tendulkar have they.

I have no idea what Lehman has them on but it appears to be turd polish.
Hes managed to get Johnson to bowl straight 6 tests in a row now. Spud Smith and Rogers to look like test cricketers. Warners on course for his third century in his last 4 tests...hes only had 10 in 44 first class games!
Harriss has stayed fit even.

Its all a bit sinister when you consider this is not a vastly different team to that which came to england last summer.
I guess it highlights how important mood and psychology is especially in test cricket ... and perhaps why England want to get their dressing room sorted out.

Nothing sinister, Pete. Maybe you just need to watch it all more closely. What more proof do you need? It must be unsettling I know.

Smith has also now scored 4 centuries in his last 6 Tests. He is developing into a very sound Test batsman able to survive a variety of tricky conditions in different locations. He is also the perfect team player and will almost certainly be our next captain. He'd walk into the England team.

I don't know why you have it in for him. If I started picking on some of your players.... the thought of doing that is very depressing! I guess it all starts in the dressing room as you say.

Guildford, no declaration today. It'll pour down in the next 45 mins I'd say.   

I dont have it in for him, Im just as painfully aware as the australian selectors were when they kept dropping him that for most of his career hes been as effective as joe root in the top 3. Now he thinks hes Don Bradman or something.
On paper this is a very very average batting line up, and as I said the team as a whole is largely the same players that were utterly incapable of beating Enbgland only a few months ago.
Its a remarkable turn around you have to admit! Its one thing getting the best from a couple of players but its only really Bailey and to some extent Clarke who havent produced some of the best cricket of their lives over the last 6 tests.
By sinister I mean how the hell is he managing to get these performances out of the squad, or perhaps the question is just what were previous coaches doing to get so little?
Theres guys who have been no marks for 10 years suddenly looking like they shouldve been picked when Aus really were the best side in the world.

Its a thing.

Ruthless performance by the Aussies.  Will be interesting to see if SA mount a credible rearguard action in 2nd innings or whether they will be completely shot mentally like England for most of the series.

Peterson - 3 wides in a row.   

Keep that eye out, LB!! God I hate Centurion... it's like a parallel universe where everyone is a mini Arnold Schwarzenegger or Elle McPherson... Gotta hit the gym tomorrow so I can fit in with much skimpy shorts and massive chest!

Alex Doolan closing in on a debut ton.
Phil Hughes had a fabulous tour of South Africa a few years ago and he was then considered the next big thing in Australian cricket. Doolan comes in with a far more modest FC record but greater experience. He does look compact. He may not be the next big thing in Australian cricket, but he does look a very promising player.

Simon Harmer for Robin Peterson, Quinton de Kock for JP Duminy, and Wayne Parnell for Ryan McLaren. Absolute must.......

Ah well, I've jinxed him!.
Michael Clarke hasn't been on top form of late, he was bounced out last innings. This surely has to be his innings.......

Duminy with the wicket as Doolan edges behind of a nothing delivery. Hope this wicket doesn't give the South Africans any wrong idea. Duminy is no frontline spinner. But more importantly, his form doesn't warrant selection as a batsman in the side.

Australia lead by 442. There is another 12 overs to go today If the light holds up, we should get most of them in. Australia should be close to that 500 lead by stumps. Another session will be plenty to push it pass 600 and declare. South Africans produce some fabulous cricket in the 4th innings often, but 600 will be far too much to chase down, and surviving 5 sessions will be even more difficult.

Could be a great day for me tomorrow... I'll see my three favorite cricketers currently at the same damn time!!
Clarke, Steyn and Johnson... I could die now!!

Pete,

A remarkable turnaround yes but I got the feeling it was going to happen sooner rather than later... or never.

I wouldn't say they are "very, very average" now though. I suppose I always had the hope that these same players might come back and perform well. They are professional players of course. Very, very, very highly motivated too. They know they are better than good. See some of those catches.

I suppose when they hit rock bottom (under Arthur) their confidence was shot - much like England's is now. It was awful watching them fail on a regular basis.

The early signs of improvement were not rewarded in the Test records during your summer. That was even a bigger blow to their ambitions. However, ambitions is the key. That's something nobody can take away from you. It's the only thing you've got when all seems to be going against you.

The appointment of Lehmann was a Godsend obviously. There couldn't have been a better match for the team. The thing about the Aussie "mindset" when it comes to sporting challenges is that it is not too complex when it is functioning at it's peak... and it it only focused on one thing: winning.

The skill sets these blokes had as kids have had all the assistance possible to develop into Test cricketers. CA is second to none. When they fail - we are probably more liberal when it comes to giving someone another chance. Part of the national psyche? Maybe.

What's happened over the last few years especially is that with the change in management and the rise of potential players in the shorter formats - the selectors have tended to leave the door open for more players and are not afraid to experiment based on a hunch. For some, it hasn't paid off. For others, things are starting to look brighter for their longer term prospects.

Also, don't forget we went through about 50 players in the last 6-7 years. Most of those players (mainly spin bowlers and a few opening batsmen) have fallen by the wayside; whilst the ones you see now have survived the highs and lows and highs.

We have also had an incredible amount of bad luck with injuries to our pace bowlers. It has been on pause for the best part of a year... and then it finally clicked... as we knew it would. The net result of all this turmoil and under-performing is that the depth of players has strengthened as competition for spots has become more desperate.

I don't know if England can copy certain aspects but the obvious difference is the way we approach cricket in Australia. By nature, we don't have the kind of 'political' hang-ups like the ECB or BCCI - more egalitarian and open for suggestions (give it a go type thing) for the common good of the team / nation's expectations. It's so fundamental really.

We had forgotten ourselves during the darker years until somebody thought halfway through 2013: I wonder if Darren is available?... he'd be the right person, players love and respect him. All he had to do is say "be yourselves, play to your strengths, eliminate the weakness and go out and enjoy yourselves!" They have also worked very hard on all aspects of their game and now it's showing. (apologies for the rant... it all seems so clear to me)

Lehmann has been excellent for Australia, positive, trusting, have fun, belief, aggression, balls when needed, knows the game inside out, and always smiling. I like him.

everyone is expecting one of Marsh or Doolan to be left out for Watson, but Rogers is also surely in danger? Watson has opened in tests before, Marsh can open....also Marsh and Doolan have both scored runs in this game and Rogers hasn;t...Watson may well come back in and open..

CF wrote:everyone is expecting one of Marsh or Doolan to be left out for Watson, but Rogers is also surely in danger? Watson has opened in tests before, Marsh can open....also Marsh and Doolan have both scored runs in this game and Rogers hasn;t...Watson may well come back in and open..

Good point. because Watson will imo definitely come back in.

But i think, they don't want Watson back as an opener.


Maybe a contradiction there of sorts  

But if they want Marsh and Doolan in there, which i think they do...because Doolan was going to play anyway, and Marsh was called back as soon as Watson went down, the Rogers may well be the man to go..

I would go:

Warner
Rogers
Marsh
Clarke
Watson
Smith
Haddin
Bowlers

Clarke still likes the 5th slot though.

I feel a bit sorry for Rogers. He was so annoyed with himself for playing that shot. True, he knows his time is limited but he's built up a fair but of credit. He's the sort of bloke we all like to see do well and he was on cloud 9 after the Ashes. He seems to have hit a mini-rut. I'd persevere with him.

I'd prefer it if Watto stayed out. Nothing personal - just that it would upset the current balance of the team which I like. I've enjoyed watching both Marsh and Doolan - serious talent who are making the most of their opportunities. I don't think there should be any changes for PE on Thursday.

Linebreaker wrote:I feel a bit sorry for Rogers. He was so annoyed with himself for playing that shot. True, he knows his time is limited but he's built up a fair but of credit. He's the sort of bloke we all like to see do well and he was on cloud 9 after the Ashes. He seems to have hit a mini-rut. I'd persevere with him.

I'd prefer it if Watto stayed out. Nothing personal - just that it would upset the current balance of the team which I like. I've enjoyed watching both Marsh and Doolan - serious talent who are making the most of their opportunities. I don't think there should be any changes for PE on Thursday.

I would too, but the Aussie commentator said 100% Watson will come back in, as though he had inside knowledge somehow.

So three days into the series and I'm watching the number 1 side at like also rans. And the second ranked side play like Australia of the last 90s-early 00s.

Proteas have bowled far too short in both innings.

Steyn, Philander and McLaren are all pitch up bowlers. Whereas Steyn can bowl 150kph+, all three are at their best when getting the batsmen coming forward.

Once you get Philander bowling back of a length, you've basically won the battle.

McLaren's been very disappointing. No real control and bowling 135kph long hops ain't gonna get it done at the Test level.

I'm saddened to say this, but Robin Peterson isn't of Test standard. He can neither hold up an end or be an attacking wicker taker.

Lastly Morne Morkel is so one dimensional it's not even funny. On a slowish pitch, logic dictates you bowl fuller to get the batsmen coming at the ball. Bring short cover/mid wicket into play. After 50 odd Tests Morne still hasn't got the adaptability a bowler of his talents should have.

One thing i have learnt over the last five years is to never write SA off. But with MJ in Poopie hot form?

I don't think Australia will be in a rush to push Rogers out the door. He strikes me as a Father figure type who brings a bit more to the team than just his runs. Once he does get left out, I suspect that'll be that and it will be unlikely he'll get recalled. Doubt that Australia will want that just yet.

Sorry if that's rather woolly but it's my take.

Suspect Watson may have to sit out the second Test. Doolan and Marsh combined have scored over 300 runs in this Test - that's a tremendous effort. Can't see either missing out on the next selection. Smith must now (rightly) be one of the first names on the team sheet. Same with Warner - even though he's a loose canon, he seems to come off more often than not.

Whilst Watson's tidy bowling would be a loss, I don't see that as too significant. As mentioned earlier, Lyon is showing himself to be increasingly reliable and could make up that gap with some extra overs.

Linebreaker wrote:Pete,

A remarkable turnaround yes but I got the feeling it was going to happen sooner rather than later... or never.

I wouldn't say they are "very, very average" now though. I suppose I always had the hope that these same players might come back and perform well. They are professional players of course. Very, very, very highly motivated too. They know they are better than good. See some of those catches.

I suppose when they hit rock bottom (under Arthur) their confidence was shot - much like England's is now. It was awful watching them fail on a regular basis.

The early signs of improvement were not rewarded in the Test records during your summer. That was even a bigger blow to their ambitions. However, ambitions is the key. That's something nobody can take away from you. It's the only thing you've got when all seems to be going against you.

The appointment of Lehmann was a Godsend obviously. There couldn't have been a better match for the team. The thing about the Aussie "mindset" when it comes to sporting challenges is that it is not too complex when it is functioning at it's peak... and it it only focused on one thing: winning.

The skill sets these blokes had as kids have had all the assistance possible to develop into Test cricketers. CA is second to none. When they fail - we are probably more liberal when it comes to giving someone another chance. Part of the national psyche? Maybe.

What's happened over the last few years especially is that with the change in management and the rise of potential players in the shorter formats - the selectors have tended to leave the door open for more players and are not afraid to experiment based on a hunch. For some, it hasn't paid off. For others, things are starting to look brighter for their longer term prospects.

Also, don't forget we went through about 50 players in the last 6-7 years. Most of those players (mainly spin bowlers and a few opening batsmen) have fallen by the wayside; whilst the ones you see now have survived the highs and lows and highs.

We have also had an incredible amount of bad luck with injuries to our pace bowlers. It has been on pause for the best part of a year... and then it finally clicked... as we knew it would. The net result of all this turmoil and under-performing is that the depth of players has strengthened as competition for spots has become more desperate.

I don't know if England can copy certain aspects but the obvious difference is the way we approach cricket in Australia. By nature, we don't have the kind of 'political' hang-ups like the ECB or BCCI - more egalitarian and open for suggestions (give it a go type thing) for the common good of the team / nation's expectations. It's so fundamental really.

We had forgotten ourselves during the darker years until somebody thought halfway through 2013: I wonder if Darren is available?... he'd be the right person, players love and respect him. All he had to do is say "be yourselves, play to your strengths, eliminate the weakness and go out and enjoy yourselves!" They have also worked very hard on all aspects of their game and now it's showing. (apologies for the rant... it all seems so clear to me)

Yeah as in my first post this really does show how important the mental aspect and team ethic is in test cricket, the difference between potential and actual performances is enormous, and so often one team being on the up puts the other down.
We kept hearing it said about England "these are not bad players overnight". We have seen what the likes of Cook, Anderson, Prior, Bell can do when things are right for them.
Hopefuly they can find that bit of magic and it does put into context why they ran out of patience with a guy whos been held responsible for some of the negativity.

Id also agree with what guys like Rogers have bought to the team. Good honest blokes was the phrase. It seems to have worked anyway.

I dont think anyone would argue Aus were due an upswell from the depths they hit, its just the scale of it thats freakish and that they have sustained it to a second series after a long hard ashes.

I would agree with that. But would be surprised if they left Watson out, after all Doolan is in his first Test, and will soon get a spot.

Big decision for Lehmann, stick with the {should be} winning team as he did with for the entire Ashes or Leave Watson out and have him peeved {Does not take it well} and his KP like effect on the DR.

Tough call.

Yes, we don't need any potential complications. I'm just so fed up with all the breaking down. It's gone on for too long. Change in that respect is needed. It may be difficult for Boof to break the news... but obviously he would have to do it delicately... for fear of upsetting Watson's hyper-sensitive ego.   

"Look mate... how's it going? Unfortunately we've had to..... you know...... anyway..... we feel it would be best if you might.... ummm......... aahhh.... sit out the next one.

We can intensify the massage program on your groin and calf areas instead. Port Elizabeth has some amazing Day Spas as you may know.
We might try the local hot-rock treatment on those delicate trouble spots of yours and then see how you feel.... OK mate?... are you alright with that?"