Aviva Premiership Round 14(?)

First topic message reminder :

Thought i'd give it a go this week folks

Friday 14th February 2014 Aviva Premiership
Sale v Saracens 19:45
Saturday 15th February 2014Aviva Premiership
Harlequins v Newcastle 15:00
London Wasps v London Irish 15:00
Northampton v Worcester 15:00
Exeter v Bath 15:15
Sunday 16th February 2014Aviva Premiership
Leicester v Gloucester 14:00

Aviva Premiership
Team Played Won Drawn Lost For Against Bonus Pts Points
1 Northampton 13 11 1 1 338 185 5 51
2 Saracens 13 11 0 2 375 193 6 50
3 Bath 13 9 1 3 286 207 2 40
4 Harlequins 13 8 0 5 238 181 4 36
5 Leicester 13 7 2 4 283 270 4 36
6 Sale 13 7 0 6 237 235 6 34
7 London Wasps 13 6 0 7 246 245 8 32
8 Exeter 13 6 0 7 245 240 5 29
9 Gloucester 13 4 0 9 228 309 6 22
10 London Irish 13 4 0 9 213 265 5 21
11 Newcastle 13 3 0 10 107 276 2 14
12 Worcester 13 0 0 13 150 340 4 4

Sale v Saracens
After last weeks shock loss at home Sarries will be in a grim mood. Sale have been on an upward curve of late but Saracens will travel North with only one aim, victory at all costs. I don't think it'll be pretty but expect Sarries big names to step it up this weekend, Hodgson to have a good game and the visitors to win it ugly. Sarries by 5

Harlequins v Newcastle
Quins snuck a win at home against Wasps last week and will know they need a better performance this week. Falcons have looked pretty abject so far and are fortunate that others have turned out even worse. This game could be terrible to watch if Quins don't spark, but I expect them to and to run out comfy winners. Quins by 12

London Wasps v London Irish
Irish got the win of the round last weekend against Saracens. Within that performance they took any chance for points on offer and defended valiently. Wasps as well played a very good game away at Quins before falling in the final minute. If the weather holds then this could be a very entertaining game with home advantage just edging Wasps. Wasps by 2

Northampton v Worcester
Newcastle's new best friends will be hoping to salvage anything from a formidable trip to Franklins Garden's this weekend. Saints even with some key call ups are a colossal team and Worcester have been dire this season although last weekends close loss at Tigers was their best performance so far. I don't think they'll be getting that maiden win on Sat. Saints by 15 with the bp

Exeter v Bath
Exeter will feel they let themselves down last weekend when they lost to Northampton. Bath on the other hand had a fairly comfy win over Newcastle. The away team are missing a few due to injuries but should still have the pack to pressure Exeter. Chiefs will be smarting after their loss though and I expect a very physical performance from them to get the win. Exeter by 5.

Leicester v Gloucester
This is usually a quality game to watch for neutral's but so far both teams have been in terrible form. Glos can't seem to figure out how to mix forwards and backs while Tigers looked uncharacteristically clueless against Worcester last weekend. I expect the home teams pack to dominate this game and grind out a horrible win in poor conditions, with Leicester's marquee player P. Try getting on the score sheet again. Tigers by 10.

In retrospect I'm a little bit glad Robshaw, Brown and Care didn't go!

Though one of the reason so many Lions are now injured is probably that so many that were brought along were injured or just back from injury...

Ben Youngs was played whilst injured in the second test and unsurprising it was made worst and he ended up out longer. Manu very much the same. No idea what the Lions medical team thought they were doing.

Cole injured now. The curse strikes again

formerly known as Sam wrote:Ben Youngs was played whilst injured in the second test and unsurprising it was made worst and he ended up out longer. Manu very much the same. No idea what the Lions medical team thought they were doing.

In my opinion the medical team was out to do almost anything legal to win the series.  Please note this is my opinion:
There were some players who never should have been selected for the Lions because of injuries they were carrying.  
There were others who were rushed back from injuries to play.

People need to wake up and leave the Lions to history. Now is the time for it to be replaced with two hemispherical competitions which would spread the game far better and reach those nations unable to qualify for the WC.

NH Cup

France, Ireland, Georgia, Scotland, England, USA, Russia, Italy, Wales, Romania, Canada, Portugal, Spain, Belgium, Germany, Poland.

4 groups 4 (each side plays 3 group games) - then two seperate knock out stages (top 8 and bottom 8) quarters, semis and finals.

SH - same format Top 16 SH nations

These two competitions would be far more beneficial to the development of the world game and would provide variation in an otherwise stale international calender where the top sides from each hemisphere play each other to often.

Both competitions would be marketing and importantly commercial successes.

Another great win for Bath. Sandy park is a tough place to go to, but we've kept up our 100% record against the Chiefs. Ford outstanding again, as were Eastmond and Devoto, in our young English 10 12 13. Wilson definitely wasn't fit to play for us and now he'll be straight into a huge match against Healy, which could be a disaster. 

A bit of daylight between us and 4th now, with Wasps at home next. Saracens at home the week after will be the interesting one.

Isn't the gap the same?

Table as it stands now:

Aviva Premiership
Team Played Won Drawn Lost For Against Bonus Pts Points
1 Northampton 14 12 1 1 368 199 5 55
2 Saracens 14 12 0 2 390 203 6 54
3 Bath 14 10 1 3 313 230 2 44
4 Harlequins 14 9 0 5 256 195 4 40
5 Leicester 14 8 2 4 294 278 4 40
6 Sale 14 7 0 7 247 250 7 35
7 London Wasps 14 6 0 8 266 268 9 33
8 Exeter 14 6 0 8 268 267 6 30
9 London Irish 14 5 0 9 236 285 5 25
10 Gloucester 14 4 0 10 236 320 7 23
11 Newcastle 14 3 0 11 121 294 3 15
12 Worcester 14 0 0 14 164 370 4 4

Looking at the table now, I am absolutely gutted about the ball falling off the tee in the last minute at Falcons, missing I think 5 out of 6 kicks against Gloucester to lose, despite outscoring them 3 tries to 1, and throwing a 13 point lead with 15 minutes to play against the Chiefs.  The 9 extra points that we could have had would see us in 7th, a point ahead of Wasps, and just 6 points behind the Tiggers, who we face this week, and Harlequins.  Gutted

Ifs, whats and maybes though mate. I'm sure many teams could write something similar! Like the old cliche, the little things all add up at the end of the season!

Quotes from Cockers are of a not happy chappy.

"With all due respect to Gloucester, if we were playing against a team in better form, we would have lost. There is no getting away from that.

"Ben Youngs is working as hard as he can and Toby Flood needs to step up and take a bit more control at times, but we were quiet across the board.

"We coughed the ball up too much. We put ourselves under pressure and it is something that we have to resolve very quickly.

"When we thought that we might lose, we actually started to play. That's not good enough. I need to see that from the first minute, not the 65th when we are in trouble."

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Leicester-Tigers-boss-Richard-Cockerill-glad-win/story-20642099-detail/story.html

Tigers have some difficult matches in the run in to the season's end, including (but not limited to) Saints, Quins and Sale away, and the last fixture at home to SAracens. They may even trip up against LI this coming weekend, especially playing like they did v Glaws. They need to step up and step up now, the table is so tight it is concievable that they wont make top four at the rate they're going.

Leicester were very lucky in my opinion. 2nd get out of jail card in a row.

Why did the ref not penalise either side for numerous skewed lineouts? Both sides were equally guilty in that area. It's an area I feel is very poorly policed.

Plus shame on Luke Pearce for his horrific inconsistency at the end. Noticing a feed at the scrum for Gloucester but failing to notice Leicester doing exactly the same in the scrum afterwards - basically handing Leicester the penalty and win on a platter. Neither side were penalised for feeding throughout the rest of the game. Again no consistency.

Tom Youngs has continued his England form - good with ball in hand but couldn't hit a barn door with his lineout throwing.

Gloucester should have won but it's similar story - set piece, noticeably the scrum let them down.

Yet again Leicester heavily relied on their scrum to win and as we have seen so many times they managed to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

Leicester play the last 10 minutes very well - turned their pressure into points with a bit of help from Luke Pearce.

Gloucester will be kicking themselves for not being clinical enough. What I can't understand is why Gloucester very rarely used Morgan as a ball carrier. He's one of the most lethal ball carriers in England yet he seemed to be wasted in that regard.

Jimpy you deserve some difficult matches. I would say Leicester have been fortunate they haven't faced one of the top 6 sides during this period.

Getting well hacked off with narrow losses

Looks like 1st-5th is probably sown up between the current incumbents, with Sale, Wasps and Exe battling it out for 6th

beshocked wrote:Leicester were very lucky in my opinion. 2nd get out of jail card in a row.

Why did the ref not penalise either side for numerous skewed lineouts? Both sides were equally guilty in that area. It's an area I feel is very poorly policed.

Plus shame on Luke Pearce for his horrific inconsistency at the end. Noticing a feed at the scrum for Gloucester but failing to notice Leicester doing exactly the same in the scrum afterwards - basically handing Leicester the penalty and win on a platter. Neither side were penalised for feeding throughout the rest of the game. Again no consistency.

Tom Youngs has continued his England form - good with ball in hand but couldn't hit a barn door with his lineout throwing.

Gloucester should have won but it's similar story - set piece, noticeably the scrum let them down.

Yet again Leicester heavily relied on their scrum to win and as we have seen so many times they managed to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

Leicester play the last 10 minutes very well - turned their pressure into points with a bit of help from Luke Pearce.

Gloucester will be kicking themselves for not being clinical enough. What I can't understand is why Gloucester very rarely used Morgan as a ball carrier. He's one of the most lethal ball carriers in England yet he seemed to be wasted in that regard.

Jimpy you deserve some difficult matches. I would say Leicester have been fortunate they haven't faced one of the top 6 sides during this period.

Leicester are 5th (equal on points with 4th) so one of the 'top six sides' arent they?. What do you mean deserve? The fixture list is the fixture list, it's not constructed to favour any one team - and what 'period' are we talking about? They havent been on form all season, yet are still top five. But, I suppose Leicester could have been unlucky enough to have faced one of the six bottom sides and had a man-shaming lol.

Jimpy, I'm not sure Leicester can play themselves as one of their Premiership matches, that's called a training match...

ChequeredJersey wrote:Jimpy, I'm not sure Leicester can play themselves as one of their Premiership matches, that's called a training match...

Hey, there's no flies on you is there?

It's ok we'd have been smashed had we played another top 6 team in the past 2 weeks too

Jimpy wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:Jimpy, I'm not sure Leicester can play themselves as one of their Premiership matches, that's called a training match...

Hey, there's no flies on you is there?

Think that's gone over my head...

Jimpy yes I do know you are in the top 6. Something you seem to be very proud of.

Perhaps the fixture list isn't specifically constructed to favour one side but in this case it does favour Leicester during this period (when I say period I mean this 6 nations window where you are facing Worcester,Gloucester and London Irish). By the time you play the stronger sides you should have more of your better players back.

As for man shaming - really? London Irish showed with their win over Wasps that their win over Sarries was not just a flash in the pan one off result. If they can gain parity in the scrum with Tigers I think they'll cause you a lot of problems.

beshocked wrote:Why did the ref not penalise either side for numerous skewed lineouts? Both sides were equally guilty in that area. It's an area I feel is very poorly policed.

Leicester had 3 free kicks given against them for not straight - so they were penalised actually. I have no idea what was an wasn't straight as I sit end on, but yes Gloucester were not done for any skewed throws.

Frankly Leicester did not deserve anything from that game, they were that crap and seem to have invented a horrid Drift Attack. However Gloucester's front 5 were a total embarrassment to such a proud club. Feeble in almost every aspect and expecting Kvesic and Morgan to clean up for them time after time. Even then if Tindall had not resembled a melting iceberg, the Glaws backs were good enough to take the win. While Matt Tait's try induced a primeval roar of relief from the crowd, the Gloucester try raised a huge round of applause. Such skill has to be admired.


(ps the ref was Dean Richards not Luke Pearce)

Alright Tiger? Been back long?

Luke Pearce was the AR I think, who called the squint feed at the scrum. I thought quite a few of the Gloucester throws were a bit generous in being allowed. We'll see if some back bone will be added to the front 5 with Hibbard and Afoa next year.

Welcome back Londontiger.  

Oh right - if Tigers did get penalised for not straight lineouts I apologise. I thought both sides were pretty poor in that area as are most sides - skewed lineouts I mean.

It's one of those messy areas that needs stricter policing in my opinion which would lead to a more competitive lineout. Oh and of course my own side are guilty of not straight lineouts too.

Shame it wasn't the more well known Dean Richards - that would be interesting.

Luke Pearce was the assistant ref who pointed out the squint feed by Gloucester. If Leicester didn't do exactly the same thing afterwards I wouldn't question the decision. Just smacks of a lack of consistency and bad luck for Gloucester.

Leicester won because you did what you do best - you played the last 10 minutes of the match very well. Exerting sufficient pressure to get the points needed. Plus exploiting your powerful scrum.

Still can't understand why Sharples didn't touch the ball closer to to the posts to make the kick easier.

Would certainly say that Manu is the most significance absentee for Tigers.

beshocked wrote:Jimpy yes I do know you are in the top 6. Something you seem to be very proud of.

Perhaps the fixture list isn't specifically constructed to favour one side but in this case it does favour Leicester during this period (when I say period I mean this 6 nations window where you are facing Worcester,Gloucester and London Irish). By the time you play the stronger sides you should have more of your better players back.

As for man shaming - really? London Irish showed with their win over Wasps that their win over Sarries was not just a flash in the pan one off result. If they can gain parity in the scrum with Tigers I think they'll cause you a lot of problems.

Well Wasps were truly dire against LI, so it isn't really possible to identify that LI have developed a resurgence all of a sudden. As for LI gaining parity at the scrum, it remains to be seen, but Tiger's scrum have been solid (if unspectacular) throughout and have saved the day during 'this period'. I wouldn't expect LI's pack to impose themselves in this area, in fact, I would imagine that given the status quo, Tigers will rely on their scrum to win the game. Tigers aren't the only side to have faced a percieved weaker opposition during the 6N window and struggled (you should know), so your argument/opinion is straw man, especially when you look at the table - the top two are comfortable for now, but we'll see. Witness the 2011/12 season where Tigers took 25 points from 5 games in the second half of the season to finish 1 point point behind (an eventually victorious) Quins, and as you say, with more key players to return and 40 points potentially on offer, Tigers aren't out of it yet - but they will have to step up a level to get there.

LT, you're back!

Jimpy I agree - Tigers have relied on the scrum to save the day hence my point. If Irish can get parity or equally make the scrum less important an area then they will cause Tigers problems.

Well two wins on the bounce for a side that has been struggling is a resurgence of sorts.

London Irish are in better form than Worcester and Gloucester at the moment.

You haven't been picking up your customary try bonus points though.

How is my argument a straw man? I would say beating Sale away is a much better result than limping over the line vs Gloucester at home. Plus even Diamond acknowledged the better side won on the day.

beshocked wrote:Jimpy I agree - Tigers have relied on the scrum to save the day hence my point. If Irish can get parity or equally make the scrum less important an area then they will cause Tigers problems.

Well two wins on the bounce for a side that has been struggling is a resurgence of sorts.

London Irish are in better form than Worcester and Gloucester at the moment.

You haven't been picking up your customary try bonus points though.

How is my argument a straw man? I would say beating Sale away is a much better result than limping over the line vs Gloucester at home. Plus even Diamond acknowledged the better side won on the day.

Apart from Falcons, Glaws and Worcester have the worst form in the league, so it wouldn't be difficult to pick up two wins in succession and claim your form was better. As I said, the real strength in Tiger's team is the forward unit/scrum and I don't expect LI to change that.

You coming down for game on Sunday Jimpy?

You may be surprised by the level of our packs performance (if of course they maintain the level they've hit in the past 2 weeks), I know I have been.

Ozzy3213 wrote:You coming down for game on Sunday Jimpy?

You may be surprised by the level of our packs performance (if of course they maintain the level they've hit in the past 2 weeks), I know I have been.

Nope, the next time I will get to Reading is for the St Patrick's day match.

Shame, should be a close fought game.

I think it's our best chance of beating the Tiggers for a while now.

LT, welcome back

beshocked wrote:

Still can't understand why Sharples didn't touch the ball closer to to the posts to make the kick easier.

In fairness, it was a pretty easy kick anyway; there really is no excuse for Cook missing that kick. Our kicking percentages this year have been woeful and cost us more than one game, from what is being suggested this will be rectified next year with Burns' replacement...

Who is Burn's replacement?

LT, good to see you

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:LT, good to see you

+1

beshocked wrote:Who is Burn's replacement?

No idea!! All we know is that they are an 80%+ goal kicker and hopefully not that bothered about their image!