Aviva Premiership Round 11

by **LondonTiger** Fri Dec 26, 2014 8:43 am

Table:

Fri 26th Dec 14

15:00 LONDON IRISH v LONDON WELSH Madejski Stadium
Winless London Welsh travel to Reading to face a misfiring London Irish in this thames Valley derby. Despite their woes and speculation surrounding Brian Smith's future and Declan Kidney's possible arrival, if any opponents can provide a timely boost it is the boys from Oxford. Surely a comfortable win for the home team and relegation all but secured for this season's whipping boys.

Sat 27th Dec 14

14:00 BATH RUGBY v EXETER CHIEFS Recreation Ground BT Sport
Massively important game for both teams. Bath fans will already be thinking about the play-offs, and a win against the team just one spot below them will go a long way to securing a home tie. Lose and the doubts will set in, especially as a number of players will be unavailable during the 6Ns, win and they will move two wins clear of their opponents. Exeter will have been disappointed to lose on the road to Sale and could be desperate for a win - hard to see but they do like confounding people.

14:00 SALE SHARKS v LEICESTER TIGERS AJ Bell Stadium
Sale moved back into the top 6 last week with the win over Exeter. However i still stand by last weeks comments that if you wish to make the play-offs then you have to be looking to win in Salford. This round only ends the first half of the season, yet I believe if Leicester lose they will be unable to make the top 4. Top 6 and next seasons ECC will be looking a distant dream too with a defeat. Sale meanwhile will be full of belief and with Cipriani pulling the strings should be favourites against a tigers team that look toothless in attack. Leicester's only real hope lies in their set piece and maybe some more Penalty tries.

15:00 NEWCASTLE FALCONS v SARACENS Kingston Park
I still get nightmares about the dreadful game (3?) years ago. Saracen's caterpillar, Stringers box kicks and the most turgid game I have ever seen. Falcons are better than that now, while Sarries will hope their demolition of LW will have blown all cobwebs away. Sarries should be too strong, but who knows.

16:30 HARLEQUINS v NORTHAMPTON SAINTS Twickenham Stadium BT Sport
The big game. Quins still undefeated in these? You do feel that the home side have little say in the result. If Saints play well they will win, no mater what Quins do. Saints do have off-days though and Quins will be looking to capitalise on any mistakes.

Sun 28th Dec 14
14:30 GLOUCESTER RUGBY v WASPS Kingsholm BT Sport
Two teams that liek to run with the ball. Two packs that are improving. Wasps have the stronger back row unit and that could be crucial.

by **Ozzy3213** Fri Dec 26, 2014 7:50 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Fri 26th Dec 14
15:00 LONDON IRISH v LONDON WELSH Madejski Stadium
Winless London Welsh travel to Reading to face a misfiring London Irish in this thames Valley derby. Despite their woes and speculation surrounding Brian Smith's future and Declan Kidney's possible arrival, if any opponents can provide a timely boost it is the boys from Oxford. Surely a comfortable win for the home team and relegation all but secured for this season's whipping boys.
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I hope you are right LT, but must confess to some nerves about this one. We are a mess at the moment. Smithy is off and despite the protestations of the players that it doesn't affect them, some of our play over the past 6 weeks has been shambolic. If we are as indisciplined today as we were against Wasps at the weekend, then it could be a long afternoon against a Welsh side who have been targeting this game and know that if they lose they are done for.

by **LondonTiger** Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:06 pm

Tigers Website wrote:Leicester Tigers (v Sale Sharks, away, Saturday 2pm)
15 Tommy Bell
14 Mathew Tait
13 Vereniki Goneva
12 Anthony Allen
11 Miles Benjamin
10 Freddie Burns
9 Ben Youngs (c)
1 Michele Rizzo
2 Leonardo Ghiraldini
3 Dan Cole
4 Graham Kitchener
5 Geoff Parling
6 Jamie Gibson
7 Julian Salvi
8 Jordan Crane

Replacements
16 Tom Youngs
17 Marcos Ayerza
18 Fraser Balmain
19 Sebastian De Chaves
20 Robert Barbieri
21 Sam Harrison
22 Owen Williams
23 Seremaia Bai

Wonder if Bell will take kicks at goal? Woudl rather have seen Tait 13, Goneva 14 than other way round.

by Sgt_Pooly Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:24 pm

It's got to be a big win for Irish to get them going again, not a chance they won't return 5pts.

Tough for us against Sarries who aren't fully firing but imagine will have a bit too much for a much improved Falcons. A Lbp would be fantastic in reality, within 10 possibly more realistic. I do fancy us to compete more than previous seasons and if a team fail to turn up we have a chance. We just need to start turning possession into points.

by Welly Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:35 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Tigers Website wrote:Leicester Tigers (v Sale Sharks, away, Saturday 2pm)
15 Tommy Bell
14 Mathew Tait
13 Vereniki Goneva
12 Anthony Allen
11 Miles Benjamin
10 Freddie Burns
9 Ben Youngs (c)
1 Michele Rizzo
2 Leonardo Ghiraldini
3 Dan Cole
4 Graham Kitchener
5 Geoff Parling
6 Jamie Gibson
7 Julian Salvi
8 Jordan Crane

Replacements
16 Tom Youngs
17 Marcos Ayerza
18 Fraser Balmain
19 Sebastian De Chaves
20 Robert Barbieri
21 Sam Harrison
22 Owen Williams
23 Seremaia Bai

Wonder if Bell will take kicks at goal? Woudl rather have seen Tait 13, Goneva 14 than other way round.

Suspect the numbers on their back will not matter they will change about during the game.

Prob to do with Tait's ability under the high ball and trying to put off Cips/sale from looking to target the wings as much.

It's a attacking back line though,

Ayerza, Youngs and Balmain will make a big difference coming on (Suspect Balmain will come on with them).

by Sgt_Pooly Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:37 pm

Newcastle Falcons team V Saracens

15 Tait 14 Sinoti 13 Powell 12 Socino 11 Tuilagi 10 Catterick 9 Blair 1 Vickers 2 Lawson 3 S. Wilson 4 Green 5 Thompson 6 M. Wilson 7 Welch 8 Hogg

Replacements 16 McGuigan 17 Fry 18 Brookes 19 Furno 20 Saull 21 Tipuna 22 Harris 23 Penny

- Good to see Brookes back, Wilson is not ready for AP starts yet so as soon as Brookes is fully fit the better. Welch starting ahead of Saull is an odd one but good to see Harris & Penny on the bench.

Really happy that Deano is sticking with Catterick at 10, his distribution is a class above. If he can iron out his decision making he could be a surprise permanent 10.

by sirtidychris Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:55 pm

Saull's talent is only equalled by his bad luck with injuries and career moves, had he been at a club where he was guaranteed regular starts he would be pushing Robshaw hard right now, however he moved to a club where the captain has the same position as him.

by Sgt_Pooly Sat Dec 27, 2014 12:03 am

I'm not so sure he's be pushing Robshaw personally but he's back in some decent form this season.

by Sgt_Pooly Sat Dec 27, 2014 1:56 am

Sarries team:

15 Alex Goode; 14 Chris Ashton, 13 Marcelo Bosch, 12 Owen Farrell, 11 Chris Wyles; 10 Charlie Hodgson 9 Neil de Kock; 1 Mako Vunipola, 2 Jamie George, 3 James Johnston, 4 Jim Hamilton, 5 Alistair Hargreaves, 6 Billy Vunipola, 7 Jacques Burger, 8 Ernst Joubert.

Replacements; 16 Brett Sharman, 17 Richard Barrington, 18 Petrus Du Plessis, 19 Maro Itoje, 20 Jackson Wray, 21 Richard Wigglesworth, 22 Nick Tompkins, 23 David Strettle.

That's a very strong Sarries team, perhaps shows how far we've come.

by formerly known as Sam Sat Dec 27, 2014 2:04 am

Leicester Tigers (v Sale Sharks, away, Saturday 2pm)
15 Tommy Bell
14 Mathew Tait
13 Vereniki Goneva
12 Anthony Allen
11 Miles Benjamin
10 Freddie Burns
9 Ben Youngs (c)
1 Michele Rizzo
2 Leonardo Ghiraldini
3 Dan Cole
4 Graham Kitchener
5 Geoff Parling
6 Jamie Gibson
7 Julian Salvi
8 Jordan Crane

Replacements
16 Tom Youngs
17 Marcos Ayerza
18 Fraser Balmain
19 Sebastian De Chaves
20 Robert Barbieri
21 Sam Harrison
22 Owen Williams
23 Seremaia Bai

Sale Sharks: 15 Mike Haley, 14 Will Addison, 13 Jonny Leota, 12 Sammy Tuitupou, 11 Mark Cueto, 10 Danny Cipriani, 9 Chris Cusiter; 1 Eifion Lewis Roberts, 2 Marc Jones, 3 Vadim Cobilas, 4 Jonathan Mills, 5 Nathan Hines, 6 Magnus Lund, 7 David Seymour, 8 Dan Braid (c)

Replacements: 16 Shalva Mamukashvili, 17 Alberto de Marchi, 18 Ross Harrison, 19 Andrei Ostrikov, 20 Mark Easter, 21 Will Cliff, 22 Joe Ford, 23 Mark Jennings

Sale with three opensides that's going to be a tough one.

by Welly Sat Dec 27, 2014 2:39 am

Seymour and Braid played against Milne, Beckett and Wells and although were brilliant in the first half they didn't really appear once the scrum was lost.

And TBh I don't think any scrum would want to see Tom Youngs and Marcos Ayerza coming on at 55/60 mins.

Interesting that 4 out of 8 of this sale pack were in the starting pack in the LV cup game and Lund and Ostrikov were also involved.

Sale will win this game in the midfield or loss this game in the pack imo.

by formerly known as Sam Sat Dec 27, 2014 2:44 am

I think it'll be won or lost at half back. Sale win games through controlling where on the field they play and then applying pressure in either attack or defense. If we pin Sale in their half and dominate the set pieces as we can then they offer little threat. Big game for Burns.

by Sgt_Pooly Sat Dec 27, 2014 2:45 am

Why wouldnt any scrum fancy Tom Youngs coming on? Is he a good scrummager?

by Welly Sat Dec 27, 2014 2:48 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Why wouldnt any scrum fancy Tom Youngs coming on? Is he a good scrummager?

Tom Youngs is a strong scrummanger.

by Poorfour Sat Dec 27, 2014 2:50 am

Welly wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Why wouldnt any scrum fancy Tom Youngs coming on? Is he a good scrummager?

Tom Youngs is a strong scrummanger.

I think he may have been referring to the opposing scrum

by **LondonTiger** Sat Dec 27, 2014 2:53 am

Welly wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Why wouldnt any scrum fancy Tom Youngs coming on? Is he a good scrummager?

Tom Youngs is a strong scrummanger.

Probably the best scrummaging hooker we have had since Robin McBryde and before that Peter Wheeler. Certainly for me stronger at that aspect than Chuter, West & Cockerill.

by Sgt_Pooly Sat Dec 27, 2014 2:53 am

I've never seen any indications or opinions that Youngs is a strong scrummager.

by **LondonTiger** Sat Dec 27, 2014 2:55 am

10-6 to London Irish at HT. Tries (1) exceeded by red cards (2)

by **Ozzy3213** Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:02 am

Words fail me after the 40 minutes I've just watched. Praying the next 40 are better.

by **LondonTiger** Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:13 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I've never seen any indications or opinions that Youngs is a strong scrummager.

Well now you have my opinion above that he is the best English scrummager we have had at Welford road for nigh on 30 years. does not mean he is a strong scrummager I agree, but there are indications he is not weak in this area. After all he is in only his 3rd season at hooker for our first team and already he has been on the field when 19 penalty tries have been awarded at scrum time. Sure the props play a part, but he is by no means weak in this area.

by **LondonTiger** Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:13 am

Ozzy3213 wrote:Words fail me after the 40 minutes I've just watched. Praying the next 40 are better.

what were the red cards for?

by Guest Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:25 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Why wouldnt any scrum fancy Tom Youngs coming on? Is he a good scrummager?

Yeah it really is amazing that Leicester continue to go against your advice on hookers. They can't seriously think they know what they are doing. I just figure the club hasn't been hooked up to this here interwebs yet. Bit behind the times is poor old Leicestershire.

by Sgt_Pooly Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:29 am

Yea I don't think he's weak LT, I've just never heard him described as a strong scrummager. Its often hard to gauge a hookers ability at the scrum unless he's an extremely poor scrummager (Thacker?) or extremely strong (Servat, Bruno etc).

by **LondonTiger** Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:54 am

Well, yet again London Welsh are pointless, but at least they deny their opponents a TBP for only the second time this season.

24-9 to LI

by Poorfour Sat Dec 27, 2014 4:29 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Yea I don't think he's weak LT, I've just never heard him described as a strong scrummager. Its often hard to gauge a hookers ability at the scrum unless he's an extremely poor scrummager (Thacker?) or extremely strong (Servat, Bruno etc).

He improved dramatically over the course if last season. At the start of the year it was very clear that he couldn't hook, but by the end of the season he was pretty competent. Plus he clearly adds a lot around the park. Just don't ask him to throw in as a sub

by Heaf Sat Dec 27, 2014 4:36 am

LondonTiger wrote:
Ozzy3213 wrote:Words fail me after the 40 minutes I've just watched. Praying the next 40 are better.

what were the red cards for?

LW for an elbow to the face during a maul. As far as I could see on the big screen, the one for LI was just continuing the tradition started by JP Doyle of red carding a LI player incorrectly when playing LW. Supposedly I guess it was for retaliation but from what we saw it didn't look like a red card for LI to me (even with my bias). Maybe our player should have gone down like he'd been hit by a sniper like the bloke last week rather than grappling the offender to ground and giving him a little shove - maybe there was worse but nothing else much was shown on the big screen to warrant a card.

by **LondonTiger** Sat Dec 27, 2014 5:19 am

ESPN wrote:May's action was similar to that of Northampton's Dylan Hartley last week as the skipper lashed out with a swinging elbow and though Leo initially appeared to be defending himself, having grappled May to the floor he punched the opposition centre and both earned their red card.
Read more at http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2014-15/rugby/story/251635.html#l64zmVO7TZQBkLcQ.99

by Heaf Sat Dec 27, 2014 5:45 am

Must have missed the punch then as I didn't see that at all ...

by Guest Sat Dec 27, 2014 5:55 am

Should've opened the other eye Aviva Premiership Round 11 3845856932

by Heaf Sat Dec 27, 2014 7:11 am

by yappysnap Sat Dec 27, 2014 7:31 am

Heaf wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
Ozzy3213 wrote:Words fail me after the 40 minutes I've just watched. Praying the next 40 are better.

what were the red cards for?

LW for an elbow to the face during a maul. As far as I could see on the big screen, the one for LI was just continuing the tradition started by JP Doyle of red carding a LI player incorrectly when playing LW. Supposedly I guess it was for retaliation but from what we saw it didn't look like a red card for LI to me (even with my bias). Maybe our player should have gone down like he'd been hit by a sniper like the bloke last week rather than grappling the offender to ground and giving him a little shove - maybe there was worse but nothing else much was shown on the big screen to warrant a card.

I love LI fans. They are almost welsh in their victimisation complex.

by Heaf Sat Dec 27, 2014 7:38 am

Just because we have a complex doesn't mean we're not being victimised Smile

by yappysnap Sat Dec 27, 2014 7:40 am

I'm just copying and pasting your rant ready for when I need it tomorrow! Just need to change a few letters

by **Ozzy3213** Sat Dec 27, 2014 7:42 am

LondonTiger wrote:
ESPN wrote:May's action was similar to that of Northampton's Dylan Hartley last week as the skipper lashed out with a swinging elbow and though Leo initially appeared to be defending himself, having grappled May to the floor he punched the opposition centre and both earned their red card.
Read more at http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2014-15/rugby/story/251635.html#l64zmVO7TZQBkLcQ.99

Not sure what whoever wrote that was watching, as there was no punch. They grappled to the floor and Leo ended up with his forearm across May's face. In real time it looked like nothing, slowed down it looked as if Leo catches May with an elbow as they go down. He was sent off for retaliation, but there was definitely no punch. For me it's a really harsh red, and I'd say that whoever he played for.

by formerly known as Sam Sat Dec 27, 2014 7:55 am

Is there a video somewhere?

by **Ozzy3213** Sat Dec 27, 2014 8:00 am

No idea fkas.

by Heaf Sat Dec 27, 2014 8:07 am

yappysnap wrote:I'm just copying and pasting your rant ready for when I need it tomorrow! Just need to change a few letters

Blimey if you think that was a rant you must be a sensitive soul Smile

... I thought it was fairly mild. BTW the red by Mr Doyle against LI when we played LW a couple of seasons ago was shown to be incorrect - it was a perfectly legal tackle our player got sent off for - hard yes, but legal. I'd also like to see a video of today's decision too as from what I saw at the time it looked harsh - irrespective of which team it was given against.

by Bathite Sat Dec 27, 2014 5:25 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Is there a video somewhere?

Bt sport app has a clip

by formerly known as Sam Sat Dec 27, 2014 7:15 pm

http://sport.bt.com/video-01363814401986?videoid=3961537790001&videotitle=Boxing%20Day%20boxing%20sees%20two%20red%20carded&videoimage=2503979514001%2F201412%2F1279%2F2503979514001_3961534007001_redcardcove.jpg

That's pretty harsh. Leo certainly doesn't get a clean strike away so I can imagine that'll get overturned. May doesn't intend to hit him with an elbow but does so low end ban for him.

by Exiledinborders Sat Dec 27, 2014 8:00 pm

Neither was a red card. May lashed out with his arm to free himself from Leo illegally tackling off the ball but hardly connected. Leo grappled him to the floor but nothing else.

Both this incident and Hartley's have at their root the constant off the ball holding by players. If referees tackled that there would be less incidents of this type.

by formerly known as Sam Sat Dec 27, 2014 8:14 pm

Hartley came in from the side got pinged and then W's driven past the ruck by a Leicester player. He and the Leicester player exchanged words and as he was pulled away he lashed out. If you illegally slow the ball down expect to get clattered at the breakdown.

What was poor in the LI vs LW game was that Leo was in at the side dragging people out of the maul.

Referees need to take swifter control so that players don't take things into their own hands as the generally causes things to escalate.

by HongKongCherry Sat Dec 27, 2014 8:15 pm

May's was a definite red; its the same basis as a punch, if you swing and connect its a red. Leo's was pathetic and a further example of how the game is being softened up. As has been mentioned these cards stem from holding at the ruck and it is similar to players killing the ball in the ruck, which would be solved by good old ducking; so if the refs aren't going to do anything about it the players should be allowed to, but unfortunately the game is not going to return to that ethos.

by **Ozzy3213** Sat Dec 27, 2014 8:27 pm

fkas

The ref was really poor, in particular refereeing the mauls. There was also not 1 lineout which was thrown straight, and countless offsides missed against both teams. it was not a great game, played in poor conditions and made to be even worse by inept refereeing. If I didn't have complimentary tickets I'd have considered asking for my money back!

by **LondonTiger** Sat Dec 27, 2014 8:41 pm

For me:

Leo is offside and pulling a man out of the maul, both illegal and he should be binned for that.

May reacts and catches Leo with elbow, probably a 1 week ban after pleading guilty and good beahaviour.

Leo then grapples May to the ground and as they hit throws a punch that misses. He catches May (just) with a glance from the elbow and grinds his face with the forearm. Clear cut yellow for me, and then you always run the risk of seeing red.

Now if I was the ref I would actually have given Leo two yellow cards - which would have meant red.

As the instigator of the situation and as he then seemed to lsoe his temper - really LI fans should direct their ire at the player not the ref.

by Heaf Sat Dec 27, 2014 11:59 pm

LT I agree Leo has to take his share of the blame but I like many others (including non LI supporters) still think the red was harsh. As for a yellow for pulling out of the ruck, in the context of the game that would have been beyond harsh as by that time LW had already been penalised multiple times for maul offences with no yellow.

by **LondonTiger** Sun Dec 28, 2014 12:33 am

Kitchener & Allen ruled out, Bai & de Chaves start. Greg Peterson and Adam Thompstone come on to Tigers bench

Who the feck is Greg Peterson?

by Sgt_Pooly Sun Dec 28, 2014 12:36 am

New US lock you signed earlier this week

by **Ozzy3213** Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:21 am

LondonTiger wrote:For me:

Leo is offside and pulling a man out of the maul, both illegal and he should be binned for that.

May reacts and catches Leo with elbow, probably a 1 week ban after pleading guilty and good beahaviour.

Leo then grapples May to the ground and as they hit throws a punch that misses. He catches May (just) with a glance from the elbow and grinds his face with the forearm. Clear cut yellow for me, and then you always run the risk of seeing red.

Now if I was the ref I would actually have given Leo two yellow cards - which would have meant red.

As the instigator of the situation and as he then seemed to lsoe his temper - really LI fans should direct their ire at the player not the ref.

We'd have been playing 10 a side by half time had the referee penalised illegal acts at the maul.

by **Rugby Fan** Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:39 am

The Bath vs Exeter derby is entertaining. Bath trying to run it from everywhere and Exeter running it back off Bath mistakes. 7-7 so far.

EDIT: Eastmond has just put Bath 14-7 ahead. The scoreline now reflects the possession the home team has enjoyed but Exeter have been good value.

by **Rugby Fan** Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:17 am

Sale are leading 30-15 over Leicester. If I've followed the pattern of scoring properly, I think Sale may have four tries.

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