CL Last 16

First topic message reminder :

Some cracking games this week, Barca/City and Bayern/Arsenal. Can't see past Bayern and Barca wins. Pellegrini has said he'll attack Barca and I say do so at your peril. This may not be the Barca side from 2010-2012 but its still a very very good side with players in form currently, namely Fabregas, Sanchez and with a returning Messi back in the goals. There's a chance that if they go in with two strikers that they could get torn to pieces. I think against Barca you have to play a 5 man midfield. They keep the ball too well and will just pass their way through you.

Ox was really good tonight. I am sorry, people will say that i have no ambition or whatever I am proud of the boys and feel like there is nothing to be ashamed of from the way we played Munich.

liverbnz wrote:Another season with no impact on Europe for Wenger. How many seasons is that now?

We have impacted europe many times under wenger, quater finals many times, and semi finals and final appearances.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

liverbnz wrote:Another season with no impact on Europe for Wenger. How many seasons is that now?

We have impacted europe many times under wenger, quater finals many times, and semi finals and final appearances.

I find this thinking very bizarre Arsenal have been to semis, Quarters, and to the finals under Wenger and have been to the knock out stage 14 years in a row. To me that is what you call an impact. No we haven't won the damn thing but making an impact we certainly have. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the toughest tie Munich faces all the way through this tournament. We lost, we went out but drawing at the allianz is hardly a disgrace.

socal1976 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

liverbnz wrote:Another season with no impact on Europe for Wenger. How many seasons is that now?

We have impacted europe many times under wenger, quater finals many times, and semi finals and final appearances.

I find this thinking very bizarre Arsenal have been to semis, Quarters, and to the finals under Wenger and have been to the knock out stage 14 years in a row. To me that is what you call an impact. No we haven't won the damn thing but making an impact we certainly have. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the toughest tie Munich faces all the way through this tournament. We lost, we went out but drawing at the allianz is hardly a disgrace.

Only 2 teams have reached the knock outs of the CL every year for the last 14 years, Real Madrid and Arsenal.

Athleticooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Arsenal never stood a chance tonight, but fair play they gave it a good go. How people can question the penalty decision is beyond me though.

"Robben is very good at getting something out of nothing, he's a good diver, but that's part of his game.

Arsene Wenger

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/afp/140311/football-wenger-slams-robben-arsenal-exit-europe

I agree fully Arsene as much as some people will not like hearing it.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

liverbnz wrote:Another season with no impact on Europe for Wenger. How many seasons is that now?

We have impacted europe many times under wenger, quater finals many times, and semi finals and final appearances.

not really an impact. Arsenal are to Europe as Aston Villa have been to the Premier League the last 20 years - mostly nondescript. Anything other than winning it is not an achievement, the same way as finishing 4th in the pl is not an accolade to go shouting from the rooftops about. I think it's a little sad that anyone would rhyme of the how far you've got in a competition without a winners medal to speak - it screams small-time when clearly Arsenal have the resources to match many of the winners the last 10 years.

When all is said and done, Wenger will go down as a failure in Europe and rightly so. 14 last 16 appearances in a row and no trophy is a indictment of failure not success.

A good result if the first leg was 0-0 but Arsenal needed to win, and really didn't look like getting it. As for the penalty. A definite one.

liverbnz wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

liverbnz wrote:Another season with no impact on Europe for Wenger. How many seasons is that now?

We have impacted europe many times under wenger, quater finals many times, and semi finals and final appearances.

not really an impact. Arsenal are to Europe as Aston Villa have been to the Premier League the last 20 years - mostly nondescript. Anything other than winning it is not an achievement, the same way as finishing 4th in the pl is not an accolade to go shouting from the rooftops about. I think it's a little sad that anyone would rhyme of the how far you've got in a competition without a winners medal to speak - it screams small-time when clearly Arsenal have the resources to match many of the winners the last 10 years.

When all is said and done, Wenger will go down as a failure in Europe and rightly so. 14 last 16 appearances in a row and no trophy is a indictment of failure not success.

What are you talking about saying we have had the same resources as other CL teams? Our budget is tiny compared to Bayerns, madrids, city's, PSG's etc etc

Also your view is that anything other than winning is failure, that is not my view.

For a club with the stature and top talent Arsenal have had not winning the Champions League at least move is a failure.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

liverbnz wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

liverbnz wrote:Another season with no impact on Europe for Wenger. How many seasons is that now?

We have impacted europe many times under wenger, quater finals many times, and semi finals and final appearances.

not really an impact. Arsenal are to Europe as Aston Villa have been to the Premier League the last 20 years - mostly nondescript. Anything other than winning it is not an achievement, the same way as finishing 4th in the pl is not an accolade to go shouting from the rooftops about. I think it's a little sad that anyone would rhyme of the how far you've got in a competition without a winners medal to speak - it screams small-time when clearly Arsenal have the resources to match many of the winners the last 10 years.

When all is said and done, Wenger will go down as a failure in Europe and rightly so. 14 last 16 appearances in a row and no trophy is a indictment of failure not success.

What are you talking about saying we have had the same resources as other CL teams? Our budget is tiny compared to Bayerns, madrids, city's, PSG's etc etc

Also your view is that anything other than winning is failure, that is not my view.

Well the latest Deloitte money list (which is a ranking based on revenue i.e. resource with which to spend) has Arsenal ahead of Juventus, Ac Milan, Dortmund, Inter and Liverpool (and Porto who are nowhere to be seen) all of which have won the CL in the same period Arsenal have been having this success of winning nothing in Europe.

http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-UnitedKingdom/Local%20Assets/Documents/Industries/Sports%20Business%20Group/uk-deloitte-sbg-dfml-2014.pdf

liverbnz wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

liverbnz wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

liverbnz wrote:Another season with no impact on Europe for Wenger. How many seasons is that now?

We have impacted europe many times under wenger, quater finals many times, and semi finals and final appearances.

not really an impact. Arsenal are to Europe as Aston Villa have been to the Premier League the last 20 years - mostly nondescript. Anything other than winning it is not an achievement, the same way as finishing 4th in the pl is not an accolade to go shouting from the rooftops about. I think it's a little sad that anyone would rhyme of the how far you've got in a competition without a winners medal to speak - it screams small-time when clearly Arsenal have the resources to match many of the winners the last 10 years.

When all is said and done, Wenger will go down as a failure in Europe and rightly so. 14 last 16 appearances in a row and no trophy is a indictment of failure not success.

What are you talking about saying we have had the same resources as other CL teams? Our budget is tiny compared to Bayerns, madrids, city's, PSG's etc etc

Also your view is that anything other than winning is failure, that is not my view.

Well the latest Deloitte money list (which is a ranking based on revenue i.e. resource with which to spend) has Arsenal ahead of Juventus, Ac Milan, Dortmund, Inter and Liverpool  (and Porto who are nowhere to be seen) all of which have won the CL in the same period Arsenal have been having this success of winning nothing in Europe.

http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-UnitedKingdom/Local%20Assets/Documents/Industries/Sports%20Business%20Group/uk-deloitte-sbg-dfml-2014.pdf

I believe it is a ranking based on income but that ranking does not take into account expenditure eg Arsenal's massive stadium bill. We are spending heavily now because the stadium debt is all but paid off.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

liverbnz wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

liverbnz wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

liverbnz wrote:Another season with no impact on Europe for Wenger. How many seasons is that now?

We have impacted europe many times under wenger, quater finals many times, and semi finals and final appearances.

not really an impact. Arsenal are to Europe as Aston Villa have been to the Premier League the last 20 years - mostly nondescript. Anything other than winning it is not an achievement, the same way as finishing 4th in the pl is not an accolade to go shouting from the rooftops about. I think it's a little sad that anyone would rhyme of the how far you've got in a competition without a winners medal to speak - it screams small-time when clearly Arsenal have the resources to match many of the winners the last 10 years.

When all is said and done, Wenger will go down as a failure in Europe and rightly so. 14 last 16 appearances in a row and no trophy is a indictment of failure not success.

What are you talking about saying we have had the same resources as other CL teams? Our budget is tiny compared to Bayerns, madrids, city's, PSG's etc etc

Also your view is that anything other than winning is failure, that is not my view.

Well the latest Deloitte money list (which is a ranking based on revenue i.e. resource with which to spend) has Arsenal ahead of Juventus, Ac Milan, Dortmund, Inter and Liverpool  (and Porto who are nowhere to be seen) all of which have won the CL in the same period Arsenal have been having this success of winning nothing in Europe.

http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-UnitedKingdom/Local%20Assets/Documents/Industries/Sports%20Business%20Group/uk-deloitte-sbg-dfml-2014.pdf

I believe it is a ranking based on income but that ranking does not take into account expenditure eg Arsenal's massive stadium bill. We are spending heavily now because the stadium debt is all but paid off.

Everyone has their bills to pay. Liverpool were a court decision from administration, Porto have no relative income to talk about, Dortmund (and Bayern) can't charge the extortionate ticket prices that Arsenal do, Juventus struggle to fill their stadium due to their location and they also have to share their stadium as do Inter.

As for spending on players AC, Dortmund and Porto have never spent big yet have no problem being successful in Europe. and they all have a reach history of it. Arsenal have nothing to show except excuses.

Valdes' shot-stopping ability isn't in doubt - it's just the rest of his game that's shoogly!! Barca have been average tonight which makes me think only Bayern or Madrid will win this. (going out on a limb there(!))

watched bayern, barca and psg over last two nights and all of them look beatable.

bayern look the strongest simply because they can defend better, barca and psg look like they can be got at with every attack. a very poor leverkussen team has got at them all night tonight aswell as missing a pen at 1-1. city also plenty of chances

certainly think a team like mourinhos chelsea wont be fearing any of them

"megalolz"

Now man city will blame the ref when they've been outplayed in both legs

LastDamnation wrote:Now man city will blame the ref when they've been outplayed in both legs

im a united fan and quite enjoy watching city get beat but it does annoy me even tonight watching barcelona, they get so many of the 50/50 calls. no point yaya playing tonight, every time he touched someone they fell over and won a foul

european refs are very poor and suit only one style of play

The ref tonight's been pretty poor full stop. Sending off Zabaleta was the only big decision he's been correct on.

to be fair barca had a legit goal ruled incorrectly offside and messi should have won a penalty for the foul by lescott.

Barca were the better team clearly and should have won. The ref was awful but really can't say that City deserved to go through. Very bad officiating tonight. But they lost by 2 goals at home and were opened up on several occasions tonight.

Pfft, is Wenger still whinging?

Beaten by the far better team, deal with it. There were plenty of positives you can take from it, though.

Citeh will be the more hurt team as they should have beaten Barcelona, but completely got the tactics wrong in the first leg and threw the tie away.

Tasty looking 1/4 final line up so far.

With Madrid and Dortmund likely to join in there could be some great ties.

Olympiakos going to be the best draw available.

Or Utd of course.

Yes, some big names through. very tasty indeed.

I still think United can get through as well Stella. I mean they have been poor by their standards this year. But I could see them beating Olympiacos by 3-0 or 4-0 at home. Olympiacos is a much tougher side at home than they are on the road and don't have the talent from top to bottom United have.

Yes, 2-0 with a home leg isn't beyond them. Be nice to have a couple of English teams in quarters.

The issue isn't talent...it's attitude...which at the moment isn't great. As has been said before, past Utd sides have turned around games with a bit of steel and grit but it doesn't quite seem to be there for them this season. Sod's Law they'll find it at the weekend though.

Whoever wins between Olympialos and Man U, I hope Atleti draws them in the quarters. PSG, Bayern seem a leap too far. Barcelona on that side of the draw actually looks the next best bet.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Whoever wins between Olympialos and Man U, I hope Atleti draws them in the quarters. PSG, Bayern seem a leap too far. Barcelona on that side of the draw actually looks the next best bet.

Atleti look really tough. I could see Atleti taking out PSG as well. PSG has a lot of players but have benefited from a pretty easy draw this year in the CL. I agree that either ManU/or Olymp. would be the best draw. I only saw Costa's first goal against Milan the diving strike in the box a wonderful striker's goal.

They had the confidence taken out of them by Real Madrid in the King's Cup and subsequently lost to lowly placed Almeria and Osasuna away. They looked very mentally fragile when Milan scored after Costa's Cantona impersonation. Part of the problem is that they don't look good when Simeone has them sitting back. They're much better pressing in the midfield and further advanced in the field.

If they get on a roll, the confidence is infectious. If they're on the defensive and sitting back, they're nowhere near as effective.

Yeah they did slump in the league. But winning that CL's tie has to help their confidence. Real are strong probably the second best team in Europe right now and everything went their way in that Copa Del Rey Match that I watched.

Their confidence went up after the league derby the other week. 2-2 and unlucky not to win. That's the confidence they brought into the CL tie and it showed in that second half. When they're pressing forward with confidence they look good.

compelling and rich wrote:watched bayern, barca and psg over last two nights and all of them look beatable.

Judging teams when they are comfortable from a first leg advantage is just a no-no. PSG made seven changes & Bayern were cruising again, not needing to push themselves to the abilities that they have. Out of the three, Barcelona would be most worried going into the QF's because they are beatable, no doubt.

Very much looking forward to the QF's, that's where it gets tasty.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Their confidence went up after the league derby the other week. 2-2 and unlucky not to win. That's the confidence they brought into the CL tie and it showed in that second half. When they're pressing forward with confidence they look good.

Yeah I watched that match and they played fantastic. Really both teams played great. I don't watch all the matches from Spain but I thought that was the most enjoyable game from Spain I saw this year. Both teams produced a lot of chances and could have scored more. You feel like if Atleti got 1 more goal after coming back to 2-1 lead that they would have taken full points.

John wrote:

compelling and rich wrote:watched bayern, barca and psg over last two nights and all of them look beatable.

Judging teams when they are comfortable from a first leg advantage is just a no-no. PSG made seven changes & Bayern were cruising again, not   needing to push themselves to the abilities that they have. Out of the three, Barcelona would be most worried going into the QF's because they are beatable, no doubt.

Very much looking forward to the QF's, that's where it gets tasty.

Barca definitely look shaky this year John. Pique is having a terrible year, Puyol is hurt and passed it, Mascherano is not that convincing at the highest levels either. Valdes is a good keeper but is a bit up and down at times as well. I am actually surprised that Man City could only muster a single offside goal against them. Bayern did not look beatable to me. Arsenal could barely get the ball out of their own half in the first half.

Comfortable for Chelsea, and no destiny or turn of fate forthcoming for Didier Drogba.

Now one English club in the quarter-finals, or two? United just need to hve confidence - something rather easier said than done.

hard to really judge Chelsea on that performance, as Galatasaray were so poor (seriously, letting Terry attack the ball unchallenged at a set piece once is bad enough, but three times?!?!), but as you say a very comfortable win for Chelsea. Nevin makes us 6th or 7th favourites, meaning he rates not only Bayern, Barca and Real ahead of us (fair enough, though Bayern are the only one that really worry me), but also Athletico, PSG and maybe Dortsmund as well. Seems a little harsh to me.

I'd like to believe man u can turn it around, and maybe they can. Don't expect Olympiakos to be anywhere near as good away from home, but Man U have got to show all the pride, passion and will to fight they didn't demonstrate in Greece. An early goal would come in handy too...

I just hope roy saw terry and cahil and realised thats the best option we have in Brazil..

Chelsea are 4th favs in my and the bookies eyes..


Nevin is talking nonsense.

Chelsea are a great cup team- with various game plans and an expetional manager.

I would say Chelsea are second favourites behind Bayern; the West Londoners are a fantastic cup team led by a manager with great success in this competition.

As for tonight, United really need a early goal. Otherwise nerves and lack of confidence and trust will be flying all over the place. Early goal, get Old Trafford rocking, and get right on the front foot - three goals the target.

As it is, I predict a frustrating night for Moyes. One of those that, like last year for United, will not go their way. 2-1 United win tonight I'll say, with plenty of frustration evident..hope I'm wrong though!

Duty281 wrote:I would say Chelsea are second favourites behind Bayern; the West Londoners are a fantastic cup team led by a manager with great success in this competition.

As for tonight, United really need a early goal. Otherwise nerves and lack of confidence and trust will be flying all over the place. Early goal, get Old Trafford rocking, and get right on the front foot - three goals the target.

As it is, I predict a frustrating night for Moyes. One of those that, like last year for United, will not go their way. 2-1 United win tonight I'll say, with plenty of frustration evident..hope I'm wrong though!

second favourites hahaha shows your complete lack of football knowledge haha.

Chelsea might fluke their way into the semis or fluke their way into winning it like in 2012 but no way are they 2nd favourites hahah

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:I would say Chelsea are second favourites behind Bayern; the West Londoners are a fantastic cup team led by a manager with great success in this competition.

As for tonight, United really need a early goal. Otherwise nerves and lack of confidence and trust will be flying all over the place. Early goal, get Old Trafford rocking, and get right on the front foot - three goals the target.

As it is, I predict a frustrating night for Moyes. One of those that, like last year for United, will not go their way. 2-1 United win tonight I'll say, with plenty of frustration evident..hope I'm wrong though!

second favourites hahaha shows your complete lack of football knowledge haha.

Chelsea might fluke their way into the semis or fluke their way into winning it like in 2012 but no way are they 2nd favourites hahah

Please elaborate how having Chelsea as second favourites to win the CL shows a complete lack of football knowledge?

I'd have Real and Bayern ahead of them, but I could see the argument for having them ahead of Real. Its not as if Chelsea don't have one of the best managers in this competition in modern times at the helm...

Olly wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:I would say Chelsea are second favourites behind Bayern; the West Londoners are a fantastic cup team led by a manager with great success in this competition.

As for tonight, United really need a early goal. Otherwise nerves and lack of confidence and trust will be flying all over the place. Early goal, get Old Trafford rocking, and get right on the front foot - three goals the target.

As it is, I predict a frustrating night for Moyes. One of those that, like last year for United, will not go their way. 2-1 United win tonight I'll say, with plenty of frustration evident..hope I'm wrong though!

second favourites hahaha shows your complete lack of football knowledge haha.

Chelsea might fluke their way into the semis or fluke their way into winning it like in 2012 but no way are they 2nd favourites hahah

Please elaborate how having Chelsea as second favourites to win the CL shows a complete lack of football knowledge?

I'd have Real and Bayern ahead of them, but I could see the argument for having them ahead of Real. Its not as if Chelsea don't have one of the best managers in this competition in modern times at the helm...

I've just got Chelsea ahead of Real on the basis that the former is a much better team defensively, and better tactically organised. It would be pretty close between them, though, and a quarter or semi-final between the two would be mouthwatering - one I'd just about favour Chelsea in.

Chelsea can win the whole thing, but I imagine if they met Bayern in the quarters or semis they'd be sunk. In a one-off game at a neutral venue though...

One thing to note as a plus for Chelsea is Mourinhio's very recent knowledge of the Spanish teams and obviously huge knowledge of the Real side.
For me they are 4th favs still due to the players the others have. But it wouldn't be a shock for me to see Chelsea winning this thing. If PSG athletico, dortmound or one of the other did I would be massively shocked.

Doody probably has Liverpool joint favorite for next years CL, alongside Arsenal, Citeh, and Chelski - It's just how he is...

kingraf wrote:Doody probably has Liverpool joint favorite for next years CL,  alongside Arsenal, Citeh,  and Chelski - It's just how he is...

Haha, not quite. Will still have Bayern as favourites, in all probability.   

European nights at Anfield again will be nice though - better than the sterile offerings of 'atmosphere' at Arsenal (yawn), Citeh (yawn) and United (yawn).

Duty281 wrote:

kingraf wrote:Doody probably has Liverpool joint favorite for next years CL,  alongside Arsenal, Citeh,  and Chelski - It's just how he is...

Haha, not quite. Will still have Bayern as favourites, in all probability.   

European nights at Anfield again will be nice though - better than the sterile offerings of 'atmosphere' at Arsenal (yawn), Citeh (yawn) and United (yawn).

Come on Duty - Be hopeful. United could do something semi special tonight

I believe in you United - I've just had a look at the 1999 Champions League final and am relatively well assured that Manchester United always score.

Unfortunately, the game is on Sky tonight, so there's no Clive Tyldesley to take me back to that balmy night in Barcelona. Even worse, there's no Yorke, Cole, Becks, Sheringham or that chap that ended up as Cardiff's manager on the team-sheet tonight.

But there is Giggs, and there is hope.

Come on United...

I actually think United, if the players haven't totally mailed it in could win this Olympiacos by enough to overturn the deficit. Olympiacos is a much, much better side at home then they are on the road.

No way Chelsea is second favorite in this tournament. Bayern, Real, Barca, and then Chelsea as 4th or maybe 5th favorite. I mean I wouldn't be shocked if they won it. But to claim they are second favorite is a huge stretch. 4th if your generous, 5th if you are being conservative. Although I would probably put them as a bigger favorite than PSG or Atleti. We know Jose doesn't have the best record against Barca and Barca seems to be shaking off their mid season slump and Messi looks like Messi again. They made Man City look like Stoke West.

Duty281 wrote:I believe in you United - I've just had a look at the 1999 Champions League final and am relatively well assured that Manchester United always score.

Unfortunately, the game is on Sky tonight, so there's no Clive Tyldesley to take me back to that balmy night in Barcelona. Even worse, there's no Yorke, Cole, Becks, Sheringham or that chap that ended up as Cardiff's manager on the team-sheet tonight.

But there is Giggs, and there is hope.

Come on United...

Oh dear, please don't ever claim any of my claims are outlandish.