(rumours) About Schmidt

Maybe a few of you don't remember, but after Ireland's massacre of Wales in Dublin there were a lot of vicious rumours going around on here. One rumour as such, was about Schmidt, explaining how much of a better coach than the Great Gats he is. I find this ludicrously bizarre!

Gatland's coaching honours are as follows:
2007–present Wales (2 x 6 Nations Championship titles)
2013– British and Irish Lions (2-1 series win in Australia)
2005–2007 Waikato (1 x NPC title)
2002–2005 London Wasps (1 x Heineken Cup, 1 x ECC, 3 x Premiership titles)

I'm looking at Joe Schmidt's and it just doesn't compare:
Clermont chokers won the Top 14 in 2010, where Schmidt was backs coach. Previous stints in coaching in NZ are nothing to shout about.
2010 - 2013 Leinster (2 x Heinken Cup, 1 x ECC, 1 x Pro 12)

Schmidt's record with Leinster is unbelievably good, outside of that I can't see what he's done? Some people are crying about how he and Ireland ran the All Blacks close and now they're a good bet for the RWC. This is stupid as they lost the game and just before that were hammered by Australia. England had beaten the All Blacks the previous year and I don't remember anyone claiming England will win the RWC either.

The Ireland win over Wales was a good one, despite the tactics being anti-rugby, better known as Schmidtball. I find this kind of ironic, as some Irish would be so critical of Gatlandball, the game plan that can actually win championships. Schmidtball has now shown how ineffective it can be and will not be the key to getting a win over France, a team that Ireland always struggle against. Schmidt is also working with a settled squad which is being fed by strong provincial teams that are playing exceptionally well. Each of these teams are also coached by Kiwi's under similar structures and tactics. Ireland's strength in depth is better than it has been in years. Schmidt has pretty much got everything handed to him on a plate so he should be doing much better. Gatland has built and rebuilt, his team is falling apart due to injury and treachery, the Welsh club/regional structure has failed and yet he keeps bringing home the bacon. I have no doubt about Schmidt's potential at all, he shown just what he can do during his Leinster reign and look forward to seeing what he can do in the years to come. But now as it stands, Gatland and Gatlandball over Schmidt and Schmidtball any day for me.

3 points Twickenham HQ.

Lancaster had planned for a bundle more than that - you know it,saint, I know it and Lancaster's ecstatic reaction at the end of the game shows us he knows he was up against a real side... more significant win than the one over the ABs, isn't that what he's saying?

Schmidt will be fine Don't worry about us.

I always find, Saint, that you spend your life responding to large number of imaginary slights and comments. It's all very strange. Where are these phantom World Cup tippers?

Cmon everyone know scotland are going to walk the next world cup

This is true.

Yeah, because according to Andy Nicol they've turned their season around with a history defining win over, ummmm.... Italy.

Don't be rude, Saint. Be nice. It's nice being nice.  

I really liked this film; nice to see Nicholson rein himself in.

If you can find anyone who said Ireland are a strong world cup, you should tell them to take off their tinfoil hats.

Ireland have yet to play great expansive rugby under Schidt, our centre partnership is a big part fo that problem, why he has't looked to address it I don't know because it's a big problem.

Thomond, you got your hobbyhorse up and running

Puting my tinfoil hat away in its safe as you speak.... marked 'Don't open until 2015'.

What is exactly is 'Schmidtball' supposed to be? Because I've seen about as much play resembling the last 3 seasons of Leinstertainment as I have posters claiming J.Schmidt is better than the Welsh coach/Ireland are going to win the world cup.

SchmidtBall is supposed to be ...an insult.

We'll take it and bank it

Thomond wrote:If you can find anyone who said Ireland are a strong world cup, you should tell them to take off their tinfoil hats.

Ireland have yet to play great expansive rugby under Schidt, our centre partnership is a big part fo that problem, why he has't looked to address it I don't know because it's a big problem.

It's a point of concern come to think of it. In an ironic way BOD is part of the issue. Realistically he probably won't be dropped for the remaining two games. Until the tournament is over they won't be looking to solidify a new long term centre partnership, giving them just over a year to find one before the WC. Throw in D'Arcy who can't be far from retiring either and Ireland are in a bit of a quandary regarding centres.

BOD is the main problem, Kidney failed to address the problem and Schmidt was hoping he would last long til 2015 (he won't). Olding and Payne and possibly Earls will be the main contenders for the jersey but yes it's an issue.

Forgot to add separately, so far I am very impressed with what Schmidt is doing with the Irish forwards. And largely without a central figure in SOB. Consider if he could successfully edge Ferris back into the equation and Ireland are looking at a strong overall unit taking them forward to the future.

Under Schmidt we are dangerous on the back of set-pieces but seem to run out of ideas after that. A bit of injection of pace in the form of Fitz or Zebo would be worth a try against Italy.

But I don't think BOD is the issue. I thought he was our most promising back after Kearney yesterday.
I am more inclined to think that the lack of dynamic carriers in the pack is the problem. Too many of our players take the ball standing still and without SOB we struggle to punch those initial holes.
England and Wales haven't had to put many players into the fringes of the breakdown area because we don't make much of an impact there, leaving less space for the backs.
In contrast too often we put too many players into the ruck and are caught out wide. England capitalised just once yesterday but should have been more clinical.

Parts of Schmidt's gameplan worked yesterday and other parts didn't. England had clearly put a lot of work into defending mauls but Schmidt shrewdly used that as a decoy. However I felt players like POM were targeted at the breakdown and we didn't get much joy there.
Most crucially the English back 3 and in particular Brown covered our kicking game far better than the Welsh did, albeit the rather poor execution from Sexton didn't help.

I'm not that worried about the centres. I honestly don't believe Henshaw or Cave are better than BOD right now, and Payne isn't eligible. So long as Marshall gets enough game time to keep him ticking over and we try a wholly new centre combo on the summer tour.

If Luke Marshall gets starts against Italy and Argentina x2 he'll be the established first choice next season. We try out Henshaw with him on the summer tour.

Who needs centre partnerships, just look at England through the era's.

The Saint wrote:Who needs centre partnerships, just look at England through the era's.

Well, different nations have different profiles about the kinds of players their systems value most.  Wales it's wings (small or big! )  England moreso forwards.  Ireland centres and 10. And so on

The Saint wrote:Who needs centre partnerships, just look at England through the era's.

Yeah look at the only times they were genuinely competitive at the top level ...Carling Guscott, Greenwood Tindall. Definitely fit the definition of civil partnerships.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

The Saint wrote:Who needs centre partnerships, just look at England through the era's.

Yeah look at the only times they were genuinely competitive at the top level ...Carling Guscott, Greenwood Tindall. Definitely fit the definition of civil partnerships.  

Wow, was there some kind of dressing room romance the rest of the world is unaware of?  

Notch wrote:I'm not that worried about the centres. I honestly don't believe Henshaw or Cave are better than BOD right now, and Payne isn't eligible. So long as Marshall gets enough game time to keep him ticking over and we try a wholly new centre combo on the summer tour.

If Luke Marshall gets starts against Italy and Argentina x2 he'll be the established first choice next season. We try out Henshaw with him on the summer tour.

I concur - I think people are looking for problems were there aren't any. I thought we played well against England and but for a bit of better execution here or there we could have pulled off a great win.

As it is we are sitting top of the 6N table and can put ourselves in the driving seat going into the final round with a good win against Italy.

We knew BOD was going to play out his final season - there's a summer tour and AI series coming up to look at new combinations so there's no panic. At the minute there is a good balance between youth and experience, with plenty of younger options on the fringes of the squad (Zebo, Henderson, Touhy, Moore, McGrath, Marshall etc.) pushing the older guys.

For me Schmidt is ahead of schedule in terms of rebuilding this side and I personally am looking forward to the RWC with confidence.

Would Downey ever be back within a shout of Ireland duty, or does Marshal (who is of similar build) fit the bill much better? Might Schmidt go for an alternative and put Madigan at 12, with Bowe coming back in to 13?

With a 34 year-old and a 35-year old playing in the centre for Ireland I can understand why outsiders think we have a long-term problem there.

But Luke Marshall should transition into the 12 shirt fairly smoothly, he has a few caps already and isn't the sort of player that needs too much guiding. Olding is another promising player at 12 but his time will probably come after the nest World Cyup.
Robbie Henshaw is the long-term hope at 13 and has played some good stuff for Connacht this season. However Jared Payne is probably the best back in Ireland at present and I don't see a player of his class having too much of a problem fitting into the side.

Cave, Earls, Fitzgerald, McFadden and Bowe have all been touted for 13 but all those ships have sailed by now.
I don't think Downey is much of a Schmidt-type player.

Anyway BOD for all the flak he has taken during this 6N actually looked pretty dangerous on Saturday, I have to say I was surprised.

theslosty wrote:
Anyway BOD for all the flak he has taken during this 6N actually looked pretty dangerous on Saturday, I have to say I was surprised.

Why the surprise though?  He's not there for window dressing.  He's already had plenty of praise from Schmidt for the defensive work he's been doing in the 6N games so far.  He's there because he's a tough nut to comtemplate being without, especially the breakdown work.  
He did look more attack-sharp on Saturday and if only some team mates were ready for his instincts we might have actually stolen the game.

But some of them are probably reading the media countdown to BOD's decrepitude too and believing that he can't throw an instinct pass to give a player something to work with.... so they miss it

theslosty wrote:With a 34 year-old and a 35-year old playing in the centre for Ireland I can understand why outsiders think we have a long-term problem there.

But Luke Marshall should transition into the 12 shirt fairly smoothly, he has a few caps already and isn't the sort of player that needs too much guiding. Olding is another promising player at 12 but his time will probably come after the nest World Cyup.
Robbie Henshaw is the long-term hope at 13 and has played some good stuff for Connacht this season. However Jared Payne is probably the best back in Ireland at present and I don't see a player of his class having too much of a problem fitting into the side.

Cave, Earls, Fitzgerald, McFadden and Bowe have all been touted for 13 but all those ships have sailed by now.
I don't think Downey is much of a Schmidt-type player.

Anyway BOD for all the flak he has taken during this 6N actually looked pretty dangerous on Saturday, I have to say I was surprised.

Speaking as an outsider my take on it is that, due to the BOD-D'Arcy axis having featured prominently over so many of Ireland's successes in recent years and having generally achieved talismanic status in the squad, so much has been built around them over the years. I'm not saying it is an essential factor for Irish success, just that that part of the structure might be difficult to replace over the next few seasons. In the same breath though and as I posted earlier, Schmidt has so far reinvigorated the forwards a little so maybe that's a sign of thinking ahead and developing new foundations.

theslosty wrote:With a 34 year-old and a 35-year old playing in the centre for Ireland I can understand why outsiders think we have a long-term problem there.

Nobody seemed too concerned when Frank Bunce and Walter Little were lining out for the all blacks.....

Personally I think the options at inside centre are good and there's a number of players with the skill set to play 13 so I don't have any concerns in the mid - longer term.

I also believe drico could last to the RWC if he wanted to.