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Billy Vunipola's replacement

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Post by Eustace H Plimsoll Mon 24 Feb 2014, 2:26 pm

Assuming Billy Vunipola will be out for the Wales game, who will come in to replace him in the squad?

There's an obvious replacement at starting 8—Ben Morgan. I sincerely hope Lancaster starts with Morgan. I heard someone speculating on BT Sport the other day that he might move Wood to 8 ( Crying or Very sad ) and bring in Tom Johnson at 6.

But if he does start Morgan at 8, who comes on to the bench? It would make sense for it to be another 8, as both Launchbury and Lawes can cover 6 (Launchbury better than Lawes on last season's evidence) and Wood move to 7 if need be.

So, if an 8 does come on to the bench, who would that be?

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Post by englandglory4ever Mon 24 Feb 2014, 2:30 pm

It has to be Sam Dickinson. He has played really well for the Saxons. Moving wood to 8 and bringing Johnson in would be a massive error of selection. It would seriously weaken the side.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon 24 Feb 2014, 2:33 pm

Probably another wing fullback knowing Lancaster

The other back row players in the training squad have been Kvesic and Johnson, neither of which scream out as useful for utility or quality. Id agree it really has to be someone who can at least cover 8, Im not sure how much Morgans has improved his fitness but hes not been an 80 minuter in the past

Sam Dickinson is in the Saxons as an 8, might be a bit old for Lancaster though. Dave Ewers is the other option.

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Post by LondonTiger Mon 24 Feb 2014, 2:52 pm

I would bet money on Lancaster calling up Kvesic. He is the next cab on the rank in terms of back row options, and did play quite a lot at 8 for Worcester.

A leftfield option (if someone in the 6Ns squad could be left field) would be Ed Slater. Initially a No8 he has also played at 6 for us. I have to say however that I am not convinced he is ghood enough to play for England at second row, so putting him on the bench to cover a secondary position could be considered perverse.

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Post by nobbled Mon 24 Feb 2014, 3:23 pm

Nick Easter
 Whistle 
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Post by Eustace H Plimsoll Mon 24 Feb 2014, 3:24 pm

Nick Easter wrote:

You joke, but that's maybe the best option I can think of.

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Post by nobbled Mon 24 Feb 2014, 3:26 pm

Eustace H Plimsoll wrote:

You joke, but that's maybe the best option I can think of.

Not really a joke (I think he'd be good coming off the bench for the last 20) but more a case of lighting the blue touchpaper and retreating...
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Post by Comfort Mon 24 Feb 2014, 3:30 pm

As a rugby fan, Sam Dickinson!!!
As a welsh fan, move wood to 8 Whistle

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Post by LondonTiger Mon 24 Feb 2014, 7:38 pm

Well BillyV is officially ruled out of the rest of the tournament.

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Post by Geordie Mon 24 Feb 2014, 7:48 pm



Edit : That wasn't clear...Morgan starts.
THe bench replacement is Dickinson or Ewers.

Dickinson was excellent for the Saxons...and Ewers is a beast.

Both can probably cover 6 aswell if required and Launchbury certainly can.


Last edited by GeordieFalcon on Mon 24 Feb 2014, 7:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by bedfordwelsh Mon 24 Feb 2014, 7:49 pm

Surely it has to be Morgan though from a Welsh view point I would be happy if it wasn't
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Post by Geordie Mon 24 Feb 2014, 7:57 pm

Yeah Morgan has to start.

I meant Ewers or Dickinson for the bench...

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Post by Cyril Mon 24 Feb 2014, 7:59 pm

Wood to 8, Lawes to 6, Botha to be drafted into the EPS.

Ok, joking Wink

Dickinson (just ahead of Ewers) for me.

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Post by yappysnap Mon 24 Feb 2014, 8:08 pm

Dickinson or Easter. Do we want a total noob or an old hand?

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Post by Geordie Mon 24 Feb 2014, 8:13 pm

yappysnap wrote:Dickinson or Easter. Do we want a total noob or an old hand?

Why not just the best player Yappy

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Post by yappysnap Mon 24 Feb 2014, 8:23 pm

That would be Easter surely? But he has plenty of faults outside of being the best player, ego, mouth and age are all against him.

Dickinson is a safer option

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Mon 24 Feb 2014, 8:27 pm

Ewers has went off the boil a little, fitness maybe?

Dickson would be the obvious, he done himself no harm coming off the bench in the Saxons game

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Post by Rugby Fan Mon 24 Feb 2014, 8:31 pm

Lancaster mentioned Kvesic and Johnson competing for back row places, not Dickinson or Ewers. No idea if that represents his likely selection policy.

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Post by Geordie Mon 24 Feb 2014, 8:32 pm

He was very impressive for the Saxons

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Mon 24 Feb 2014, 8:33 pm

It'll be Johnson....great. May as well bring back Dowson

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Post by Geordie Mon 24 Feb 2014, 8:36 pm

Ah..Johnson is a cracking club player but I thought we'd settled the fact he wasn't quite an international player.

And Kvesic...what on earth has he done to warrant a tour to New Zealand?

PS...Dickinson will be probably in the final for Saints so might not make the Tour anyway...maybe Ewers then...

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Post by Cyril Mon 24 Feb 2014, 8:41 pm

Kvesic and Johnson are flankers who have played 8 and I wouldn't want them covering 8 against Wales (especially given they may have a fairly big part to play if Morgan starts blowing).


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Post by Sgt_Pooly Mon 24 Feb 2014, 8:43 pm

And both make very little impact off the bench, it's all about the impact!

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Post by Cyril Mon 24 Feb 2014, 8:45 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:And both make very little impact off the bench, it's all about the impact!
They're also a bit light for an 8 aren't they? Giving 2/3 stone away to Billy/Morg (though they are beasts).

Hopefully we've learned from the Wood experiment.

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Post by Scratch Mon 24 Feb 2014, 8:47 pm

Wood won't be 8, he was 8 last year....

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Post by Cyril Mon 24 Feb 2014, 8:48 pm

I think we've established that.

Thanks, Scratch Smile

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Post by Geordie Mon 24 Feb 2014, 8:50 pm

Ewers can cover 6...Launchbury can cover 6 also

He should consider Garvey! What about Fearns?

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Post by Scratch Mon 24 Feb 2014, 8:55 pm

Cyril wrote:I think we've established that.

Thanks, Scratch Smile

Matters not who he picks, England's back row will be blown away by Warbs and co.

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Post by Cyril Mon 24 Feb 2014, 9:00 pm

Scratch wrote:
Cyril wrote:I think we've established that.

Thanks, Scratch Smile

Matters not who he picks, England's back row will be blown away by Warbs and co.
Thanks for the heads up. Much obliged.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Mon 24 Feb 2014, 9:04 pm

Scratch wrote:
Cyril wrote:I think we've established that.

Thanks, Scratch Smile

Matters not who he picks, England's back row will be blown away by Warbs and co.

Another insight into what won't happen, you talk some rubbish.

I just pray Johnson isn't called up.

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Post by Jhamer25 Mon 24 Feb 2014, 9:06 pm

I for one pray that Wood goes 8 or either Dickinson, kvesic or Johson come in.

Leaving out Morgan would just be stupid. Morgan vs Falateu would be a good battle

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Post by Cyril Mon 24 Feb 2014, 9:07 pm

Jhamer25 wrote:I for one pray that Wood goes 8 or either Dickinson, kvesic or Johson come in.

Leaving out Morgan would just be stupid. Morgan vs Falateu would be a good battle
I think we're talking about these other players as being back-up to Morgan (not instead of). Chances are though, based on previous fitness levels, Morgan will need a back-up. Hence the slight concern Smile


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Post by Sgt_Pooly Mon 24 Feb 2014, 9:07 pm

Morgan will start at 8

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Post by Scratch Mon 24 Feb 2014, 9:12 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Morgan will start at 8

He who knows has spoken!  notworthy 

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Post by yappysnap Mon 24 Feb 2014, 9:14 pm

Easter!!!

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Post by Geordie Mon 24 Feb 2014, 9:15 pm

Scratch wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Morgan will start at 8

He who knows has spoken!  notworthy 

He speaks the truth!

Oh and did someone really say I hope Wood moves to 8? Or did I miss the joke?

Keep Wood and Robshaw where they are.
Id rather start big Ewers or Dickinson than move Wood to 8.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Mon 24 Feb 2014, 9:18 pm

Scratch wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Morgan will start at 8

He who knows has spoken!  notworthy 

SL has said Morgan will start at 8, it's not rocket science even if he hadn't

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Post by Barney McGrew did it Mon 24 Feb 2014, 10:05 pm

Not even Stewie is so dopey as to put Wood at 8 - particularly for the Wales game. I am absolutely sure that I am fully confident that Stewie wouldn't do that.

Mind you a 6. Lawes 7. Robshaw 8. Wood would be amusing - show some real intent. Shame Croft's out.
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Post by englandglory4ever Mon 24 Feb 2014, 10:49 pm

Thank goodness Croft is out. Sorry he's injured but there was never a more lightweight goal hanging backrow than Croft. I know he's good in the lineout but that is functioning very well so we need a proper backrow player.

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Post by GloriousEmpire Mon 24 Feb 2014, 10:54 pm

James Haskell!

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Post by gregortree Tue 25 Feb 2014, 6:51 am

Billy is out for 6N. Morgan is good for 60 mins. Dickinson from the Saxons impressed me as the young tyro. But
Please Bomber, no more flankers.

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Post by Exiledinborders Tue 25 Feb 2014, 7:16 am

We need a replacement eight on the bench. That is an eight not a six. My fear is that we will go into Wales match for a second year with flankers playing at eight. The following quote from Stuart Lancaster on BBC website worries me.
The encouraging thing is we have got Ben Morgan and other back rows such as Matt Kvesic and Tom Johnson, who are all competing hard for places.

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Post by Cumbrian Tue 25 Feb 2014, 7:16 am

Haskell is a very good shout actually. I'm not sure how he has been playing for Wasps but he has the prerequisite power and work rate. With 50 caps to his name would automatically be one of the most experienced players in the squad too!
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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue 25 Feb 2014, 7:18 am

Rugby Fan wrote:Lancaster mentioned Kvesic and Johnson competing for back row places, not Dickinson or Ewers. No idea if that represents his likely selection policy.

Probably because they are the players who are in the actual squad.

Another way of looking at it is this ...Robshaw and Wood have both had to play 240 minutes with big workloads, Morgan about 30 in total? Given theres two flanker positions as well theres arguably a higher chance of one of them needing to come off than there is Morgan so why not get specialist cover on the flanks and rely on part time cover for 8?

Im not entirely convinced by either as test players mind.

Haskell isnt even in the EPS 64 anymore. Hes had a pretty rapid demise since the last six nations and it seems to have hit his confidence and motivation.

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Post by George Carlin Tue 25 Feb 2014, 7:18 am

The most intuitive move and the one least unsettling for the squad would be to start with Morgan and stick Dickinson on the bench. Completely unconvinced that Morgan has the engine to do any more than an hour. Can Kvesic cover other backrow positions? I thought that he was Mr Specialist Openside?
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Post by Cumbrian Tue 25 Feb 2014, 7:21 am

George Carlin wrote:The most intuitive move and the one least unsettling for the squad would be to start with Morgan and stick Dickinson on the bench. Completely unconvinced that Morgan has the engine to do any more than an hour. Can Kvesic cover other backrow positions? I thought that he was Mr Specialist Openside?

He started out as a number 8 and covered the position for Wuss last season (continues to do so for Glos?) he's spent the last few years being moulded into an openside because he seemed to have a no. 7's instincts at the breakdown.
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Post by gregortree Tue 25 Feb 2014, 7:28 am

I'm not familiar with Kvesic's Wuss history, but here at Glaws he looks and plays like a classic 7. Not sure of his kgs but he seems to lack the 'ballast' needed at the back of a scrum. Be a mistake in a match as critical as on 9th March. Dickinson looked good with the Saxons.

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Post by Geordie Tue 25 Feb 2014, 8:09 am

Morgan to start

Dickinson on the bench to come on.

Get Ewers in to cover 8 and 6.

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Post by charliehesketh Tue 25 Feb 2014, 9:06 am

I'm sure it's already been said, but Launchbury being able to cover 6 helps.  But covering 6 probably isn't the problem.  Robshaw as captain likely to stay the 80, so back to the no 8 problem.

Great to blood new talent e.g. Dickinson, so would be good choice.

For winning the game in the last 20, and presence on the field, behold Nick Easter !  angel 

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Post by gregortree Tue 25 Feb 2014, 9:18 am

Easter has proven experience of scoring tries (2,3, ? don't remember) off the back of the scrum, vs Wales at Twickenham. Whistle 

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