Edinburgh v Ulster, 21 March

by **George Carlin** Mon 17 Mar 2014, 11:32 am

Edinburgh v Ulster

Friday 21 March 2014
KO 19:45
Murrayfield Nematode Nursery

Referee: John Lacey (IRFU, 33rd competition game)
Assistant Referees: Neil Paterson, Bob Nevins (both SRU)
Citing Commissioner: John Kirk (SRU)

Massacre Not Televised

A. Teams:

I. Edinburgh
Edinburgh v Ulster, 21 March Ken-st10

15 Jack Cuthbert
14 Dougie Fife
13 Sam Beard
12 Andries Strauss
11 Tom Brown
10 Carl Bezuidenhout
09 Grayson Hart

01 Alasdair Dickinson
02 Ross Ford
03 Willem Nel
04 Grant Gilchrist
05 Izak van der Westhuizen
06 Mike Coman CAPTAIN
07 Roddy Grant
08 Cornell Du Preez

16 James Hilterbrand
17 Wicus Blaauw
18 Ewan McQuillin
19 Ollie Atkins
20 Tomas Leonardi
21 Sean Kennedy
22 Harry Leonard
23 Nick De Luca

II. Ulster
Edinburgh v Ulster, 21 March Kennet10

01) Tom Court
02) Rob Herring
03) John Afoa
04) Johann Muller (c)
05) Iain Henderson
06) Stephen Ferris
07) Sean Doyle
08) Roger Wilson
09) Michael Heaney
10) Paddy Jackson
11) Craig Gilroy
12) Luke Marshall
13) Darren Cave
14) Tommy Bowe
15) Jared Payne

16) Niall Annett
17) Andrew Warwick
18) Ricky Lutton
19) Dan Tuohy
20) Nick Williams
21) Robbie Diack
22) Paul Marshall
23) Stuart McCloskey

B. Form - head to head

28 Played 28
9 Wins 18
18 Losses 9
1 Draws 1
49 Tries 69
36 Conversions 47
62 Penalties 86
6 Drop Goals 3
521 Points 706
25 Avg. Age 26

C. Form - last season:

Fri 2 November 2012, 19:05
Ulster Rugby 45 - 20 Edinburgh Rugby
Ravenhill

Fri 22 March 2013, 19:30
Edinburgh Rugby 14 - 8 Ulster Rugby
Murrayfield

by funnyExiledScot Mon 17 Mar 2014, 11:42 am

Very much looking forward to this one, and hoping to see more of the attacking play that we unleashed against the Ospreys.

Here's the XV I'm hoping to see:

1.Blaauw 2.Lutui 3.Nel 4.Gilchrist 5.Atkins 6.Coman 7.Grant 8.Du Preez 9.Hart 10.Bezzy 11.Brown 12.Strauss 13.NDL 14.Fife 15.Cuthbert

I suspect the Scots contingent will get a rest, although hopefully Fife can come straight back in. I think the sooner he comes back the better, so Solomons can wash away the incompetence of Scott Johnson.

by **Notch** Mon 17 Mar 2014, 11:53 am

Callum Black and Ruan Pienaar won't play i think, after their injuries. Ditto Luke Marshall.

Possible Ulster team;

1. Tom Court 2. Rob Herring 3. John Afoa 4. Johann Muller (c) 5. Iain Henderson 6. Robbie Diack 7. Sean Doyle 8. Roger Wilson 9. Paul Marshall 10. Paddy Jackson 11. Craig Gilroy 12. Stuart McCloskey 13. Darren Cave 14. Tommy Bowe 15. Jared Payne

16. Rory Best 17. Kyle McCall 18. Ricky Lutton 19. Stephen Ferris 20. Chris Henry 21. Michael Heaney 22. James McKinney 23. Andrew Trimble

by Standulstermen Mon 17 Mar 2014, 11:56 am

Marshall May come back into the mix.

I don't think we will see the Irish lads at all notch truth be told (except Hendo as he benched)

by funnyExiledScot Mon 17 Mar 2014, 12:01 pm

Hmmm, if that is the Ulster 23 then this could be a long evening for the Edinburgh boys.

Only player I'm not familiar with is Stuart McCloskey at 12. Let me guess, yet another highly promising young Irish lad with a big future??

by **Notch** Mon 17 Mar 2014, 12:01 pm

Bingo

by funnyExiledScot Mon 17 Mar 2014, 12:11 pm

Hmmm, he sounds Scottish to me. Where's his granny from??

by Nematode Mon 17 Mar 2014, 12:13 pm

I'd expect

!Cuthbert, !Fife, Strauss/Beard, !Scott, Brown, !Bezeaindhaut, Hart; !Dickinson, Ford, !Nelly, Gilchrist, IVW, Du Preez, Grant, Coman

by funnyExiledScot Mon 17 Mar 2014, 12:18 pm

Very much doubt Scott will play. Deserves the week off I'd suggest. I would also expect VDW to be benched for Atkins, given that Atkins is both SQ and staying, and VDW is NSQ and leaving.

If Fife can't start, perhaps a first start for young Hoyland?

by Nematode Mon 17 Mar 2014, 12:21 pm

Oh the games's this week? Yahoo

Then yeah, I'd bench Scott. I'd keep Fife though, maybe put him to 13, as he's not had the game time like Scott. That would accommodate Hoyland.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 17 Mar 2014, 12:24 pm

Is NDL still injured? If so then I'd keep Beard at 13. Thought he was good against the Ospreys, and has look pretty promising generally so far. Dominguez can cover the centre slots from the bench.

Keen to see Hoyland, although perhaps Payne, Bowe and Gilroy would be a harsh debut.

by geoff998rugby Mon 17 Mar 2014, 1:12 pm

I expect to see Luke Marshall on the bench rather than McKinney.

by **RDW** Mon 17 Mar 2014, 1:55 pm

Very glad to see Pieenar unavailable!

Scott, Laidlaw and Denton will definitely be rested, especially since we actually have decent replacements for a change.

I suspect Scott will come straight back in after a week off, probably Denton too, but will be interesting to see what he does with Laidlaw. Club captain he is, but he is also off soon and we need to give Hart, S-H-K and Kennedy plenty experience before next season. Plus Bezzy looks a top goal kicker so we don't need him for that.

This is the final run in for the season, with 8 games in 8 consecutive weeks coming up.

by **George Carlin** Mon 17 Mar 2014, 1:57 pm

What are Edinburgh fans realistically hoping for from this season now?
A top 6 finish? Is it mathemetically likely that they will finish higher?

by **Notch** Mon 17 Mar 2014, 1:58 pm

geoff998rugby wrote:I expect to see Luke Marshall on the bench rather than McKinney.

by VinceWLB Mon 17 Mar 2014, 2:00 pm

8 games in 8 consecutive weeks is quite a lot, Solomons will certainly need to be more carefull about rotating his team and not give 80 minutes to Nel every game.

by **RDW** Mon 17 Mar 2014, 2:02 pm

Also, the next game is against Treviso away on a Saturday followed by the Dragons game away on the following Thursday, so a 5 day turnaround.

Really cannot fathom why the Dragons put that game on the Thursday.

by **RDW** Mon 17 Mar 2014, 2:15 pm

George Carlin wrote:What are Edinburgh fans realistically hoping for from this season now?
A top 6 finish? Is it mathemetically likely that they will finish higher?

A top 6 finish would be an incredible achievement for Edinburgh considering what happened last season and the fact we spent the first 8 weeks of this season playing catch up. It would be at the expense of the Scarlets so that could be unlikely.

Saying that, 4 of the remaining 8 games are bottom 6 teams with Glasgow, Munster then Leinster finishing off a tough final 3 games.

Realistically Scarlets, Edinburgh and the Dragons have a chance of that 6th spot. A win against Ulster and Scarlets losing to Glasgow would be a massive boost, but the real big game is away to the Dragons on that random Thursday.

If we can win the next 4 games after Ulsters (a big if), then it will set us up nicely for the tough final 3 games.

Run in:

Ulster H
Treviso A
Dragons A
Blues H
Zebre A
Glasgow A
Munster H
Leinster A

I think it is mathematically possible to finish higher than 6th, but given that 5th place is 13 points away I can't see it happening.

by Nematode Mon 17 Mar 2014, 2:53 pm

http://www1.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/rugby-union/9213278/ipa-championship-highlights-13th-march

Utter poetry at 1.26. Drool

by funnyExiledScot Mon 17 Mar 2014, 3:20 pm

George Carlin wrote:What are Edinburgh fans realistically hoping for from this season now?
A top 6 finish? Is it mathemetically likely that they will finish higher?

1872 bare minimum. Top 6 would be a remarkable achievement given where we started from this season.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Mon 17 Mar 2014, 4:10 pm

If the rumours are correct, and its the top 7 from the Celtic League that qualify for the new European Champions Cup (providing one from each country), then top 6 is a must target for Edinbokke to be aiming for (with one of the Italian teams getting the 7th spot)?

by **Notch** Mon 17 Mar 2014, 4:14 pm

Top 4 from each nation and then the 3 highest placed teams after that.

So with Munster/Leisnter, Ospreys and Glasgow all looking to be in that top 6 yes, a Top 6 finish is a necessity to play in the real tournament unless your club name is in Italian. It'll be the Top 6 + Treviso (or Zebre if the rumours about Treviso being replaced for next season are true).

by funnyExiledScot Mon 17 Mar 2014, 4:16 pm

That's the target ASBO, although I wouldn't want to get into a discussion as to how realistic that is. We finish against Munster and Leinster, both of whom have a knack of peaking at the right time, so I wouldn't want to be needing anything from those games.

Still, if we do miss 6th place, at the very least we've put in some proper solid foundations for the squad this season, and will be starting next season in a much much better place than we started this season, with a decent core to the side and a coach who knows something about rugby.

by **RDW** Mon 17 Mar 2014, 4:17 pm

Tell you what, if Zebre get into the top tournament and Edinburgh don't I'll suddenly see why the English and French were causing all the fuss!

by GavinDragon Mon 17 Mar 2014, 4:22 pm

is it being played in murrayfield? And if so will I be able to get tickets on the day? I'm off to edinburgh on holidays Very Happy

by funnyExiledScot Mon 17 Mar 2014, 4:22 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Tell you what, if Zebre get into the top tournament and Edinburgh don't I'll suddenly see why the English and French were causing all the fuss!

I just had the same thought, but I do think the European Cup (or whatever it is called) would lose something if one of the 6 Nations didn't have a club side involved. However, Zebres are truly woeful, and it's a shame the more competitive Treviso may be excluded (although perhaps some of the better Treviso players will jump ship if the side is disbanded).

Still, if we want to be part of this new world, we need to work at finishing in the top 6. We only have ourselves (and Michael Bradley) to blame if we don't make the cut.

by **Notch** Mon 17 Mar 2014, 4:25 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Tell you what, if Zebre get into the top tournament and Edinburgh don't I'll suddenly see why the English and French were causing all the fuss!

A zebra is a strange thing, like a horse designed by a committee.

(Very Portnoys style of post)

by **RDW** Mon 17 Mar 2014, 4:29 pm

GavinDragon wrote:is it being played in murrayfield? And if so will I be able to get tickets on the day? I'm off to edinburgh on holidays

Yes and yes, but you save a fiver if you book it in advance. You can print the tickets at home too (or work, in my case) so it is nice and easy.

by GavinDragon Mon 17 Mar 2014, 4:34 pm

Cheers RDW! Wheres the best rugby pub to attend before and after?

by **RDW** Mon 17 Mar 2014, 4:38 pm

Don't expect Edinburgh during the 6N kind of atmosphere pre and post match - you would hardly know the game was on normally!

Best bet pre-match is usually the Murrayfield or the Hampton across from the stadium at the ice rink end.

For a good rugby bar with good beer though I'd recommend Bert's bar or Teuchters (they are across from each other) just along from the West End.

by GavinDragon Mon 17 Mar 2014, 4:39 pm

no I am not but a good pub with some knowledgeable rugby folk would be great, cheers for the tip

by VinceWLB Mon 17 Mar 2014, 4:48 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
A top 6 finish would be an incredible achievement for Edinburgh considering what happened last season and the fact we spent the first 8 weeks of this season playing catch up. It would be at the expense of the Scarlets so that could be unlikely.

Saying that, 4 of the remaining 8 games are bottom 6 teams with Glasgow, Munster then Leinster finishing off a tough final 3 games.

Realistically Scarlets, Edinburgh and the Dragons have a chance of that 6th spot. A win against Ulster and Scarlets losing to Glasgow would be a massive boost, but the real big game is away to the Dragons on that random Thursday.

If we can win the next 4 games after Ulsters (a big if), then it will set us up nicely for the tough final 3 games.

Run in:

Ulster H
Treviso A
Dragons A
Blues H
Zebre A
Glasgow A
Munster H
Leinster A

I think it is mathematically possible to finish higher than 6th, but given that 5th place is 13 points away I can't see it happening.

Treviso and Dragons away are keys, i think Dragons are tougher so Solomons will need to bring a slightly weakened team to Treviso and unleash the big guns for the Dragons, i'm not sure he will though.
Isn't Tim Visser due to be back shortly too?

by funnyExiledScot Mon 17 Mar 2014, 4:54 pm

Solomons is pretty old school about resting players - i.e. he doesn't. I think the Scots lads will get the Ulster game to recover, but I suspect he'll go full strength for the games against Treviso and the Dragons. Those are the key games - fail to win both of those and any slim hopes of 6th disappear.

by **RDW** Mon 17 Mar 2014, 4:55 pm

Wouldn't be surprised if Solomons picked the same squad for all 8 games! Seems to be his way

by funnyExiledScot Mon 17 Mar 2014, 4:58 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Wouldn't be surprised if Solomons picked the same squad for all 8 games! Seems to be his way

The complete opposite of Scott Johnson, in almost every respect.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Mon 17 Mar 2014, 5:01 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Wouldn't be surprised if Solomons picked the same squad for all 8 games! Seems to be his way

The complete opposite of Scott Johnson, in almost every respect.

What, you mean he actually knows something about rugby and isn't hopelessly out of his depth?

by **George Carlin** Mon 17 Mar 2014, 5:18 pm

Poor Willem Nel. He's going to be held together by duct tape by the end of this season. Talk about getting your money's worth out of a player.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 17 Mar 2014, 5:22 pm

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Wouldn't be surprised if Solomons picked the same squad for all 8 games! Seems to be his way

The complete opposite of Scott Johnson, in almost every respect.

What, you mean he actually knows something about rugby and isn't hopelessly out of his depth?

That's exactly what I mean. From the moment Solomons took over he's talked complete sense, and we've consistently improved. Our performance in the last match against the Ospreys, without our internationals, was on a completely different level to the shambles presided over by Bradley. If Edinburgh didn't need him so badly I'd assign Solomons and Omar to Scotland, and sack Scott Johnson with immediate effect (something to do with not meeting, or coming close to meeting, a single objective required of any rugby coach).

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Mon 17 Mar 2014, 5:49 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Wouldn't be surprised if Solomons picked the same squad for all 8 games! Seems to be his way

The complete opposite of Scott Johnson, in almost every respect.

What, you mean he actually knows something about rugby and isn't hopelessly out of his depth?

That's exactly what I mean. From the moment Solomons took over he's talked complete sense, and we've consistently improved. Our performance in the last match against the Ospreys, without our internationals, was on a completely different level to the shambles presided over by Bradley. If Edinburgh didn't need him so badly I'd assign Solomons and Omar to Scotland, and sack Scott Johnson with immediate effect (something to do with not meeting, or coming close to meeting, a single objective required of any rugby coach).

I'd like to think that the SRU had performance objectives for their employees, but somehow I sincerely doubt it!

by **RDW** Tue 18 Mar 2014, 8:19 am

Bit of a non-article in the Edinburgh Evening News - interview with Stuart McInally saying that Ross Rennie doesn't fit the Edinburgh mould of player (which is true), but also the claim that Solomons prefers a big ball carrying 7 is disputed by the fact that Roddy Grant is in fact shorter and lighter than Ross Rennie.

The lid has been lifted on “world class” Edinburgh Rugby star Ross Rennie’s shock loan to Bristol just as he was being named in Scotland’s extended squad for the current Six Nations Championship.

Insight comes from Stuart McInally, who left the Capital at the same time and under the same terms to link up with ex-Scotland coach Andy Robinson.

“The reason he (Rennie) is not at Edinburgh at the moment is because he doesn’t fit into the coach’s mould. He wants a big, ball-carrying seven, which Ross isn’t,” said McInally.

In fact, Rennie found his way barred at Edinburgh by Roddy Grant who wasn’t named in Scotland’s squad and who, at 14st 2lb, is nearly a stone and a half lighter than Rennie and just an inch taller.

Nevertheless, McInally says of Rennie: “He will carry the ball, but his game isn’t about bashing players out of the way.

“Ross is one hell of a player – he can do things that not many other number sevens can do. The amount of possession he secures for us is phenomenal. He’s a fantastic player.

“He’s famous for ripping the ball (and) I’ve even asked him, ‘How do you do it?’ I’ve tried to rip the ball like that and I can’t do it – and it’s not as if he’s this big beast in the gym, he just thinks about it a lot.”

“When someone is carrying the ball at him, he will think where they’re weak and then target that area to rip – and it’s very effective and certainly what he’s world-class at.

Obviously there is concern that Bristol might seek to make Rennie’s loan deal permanent when it expires and McInally, who is converting from flanker to hooker, adds: “I know from living with him (Rennie) that he’s really enjoying his time down here – and I think it’s just what he needed.”

Where the article does talk sense though is that Ross Rennie is absolutely superb at winning possession - something both Edinburgh and Scotland really could do with.

I hope he stays at Edinburgh, but unfortunately I can't see it happening.

by **George Carlin** Tue 18 Mar 2014, 8:28 am

If Brizzel get promoted, I'd rather see him turning heads in the Jeff than back in Edinburgh.

Pienaar is definitely out of the Edinburgh game by the way. Ulster fans will forgive us a few moments to do this: Yahoo

by **RDW** Tue 18 Mar 2014, 8:32 am

I suppose it depends on what purpose you think Edinbrugh and Glasgow serve. I would like them to become top teams that compete regularly for top 4 spots and latter stages of Europe, and to do that we need to keep our best players when they are their prime. The obvious problem being that, with only two teams, it creates a block for young players coming through.

Instead, it seems in Scotland that once a player hits their late 20s, and are generally seasoned internationalists in their physical prime - they are encouraged to move on to a different club. Obviously this frees up space for the younger guys coming through, but it means the time is losing top class players.

Obviously this entirely revolves around the 3rd pro team debate, but I would love it if there was some happy medium.

Oh and one final thing - apparently Greig Laidlaw doubled his salary moving to Gloucester. Given that he was probably one of Edinburgh's top earners, that really shows the gulf in resources we have to deal with.

by Nematode Tue 18 Mar 2014, 8:41 am

I think, for him, if he's enjoying Bristol and they're on the up then maybe that's where he should stay. Interesting on one of the Bristol rugby interviews with him on YouTube he was saying how he was enjoying linking up with AR - wonder if there's been a bust up with the specialist 7s and SJ?

by **RDW** Tue 18 Mar 2014, 8:44 am

The problem he'll have is he won't know if Bristol are getting promoted until after he will have signed a contract with them most likely.

Even if they win the league there's no guarantee they'll win the playoff!

The last think we need is Ross Rennie playing championship rugby for another year.

by **BigGee** Tue 18 Mar 2014, 9:40 am

RR won't be playing in the championship next year, someone, if not Edinburgh will pick him back up if Bristol don't go up, which seems unlikely. You could see the reasons he went down there this year and it seems to have worked well for him. I don't believe for a second about any potential bust ups with SJ or Solomans not rating him.

I think for once we should give the coaches credit for getting this one right and doing what was best for the player. He was not physically or emotionally ready to play for Edinburgh or Scotland at the beginning of this championship for well documented reasons. SJ wanted him in the squad but then realised the state he was in and let him go.

He will be back on the summer tour you can bet, revitalised and ready to play. This loan down to Bristol may have indeed resurrected his career and at long last will allow him to fulfil his true potential.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 18 Mar 2014, 9:56 am

That's an interesting article - Solomons clearly has a very South African mindset regarding what he wants from his 7, more an allrounder than a specialist, enabling a left/right combo rather than a classic tackler/poacher.

I wonder whether we'll see more of Coman or Leonardi at 7, with Du Preez at 6 next season.

The key regarding Rennie next season is getting him playing Aviva rugby and keeping him fit.

by toml Wed 19 Mar 2014, 9:45 am

It's great to see the optimism from Edinburgh fans after a few years of struggle. Solomon's seems to have a bit more of a plan than previous years.

I though that Edinburgh were playing at Boroughmuir these days? Any chance of more games there? I reckon it is a much more intimidating ground for visiting teams than the empty Murraybowl

by **RDW** Wed 19 Mar 2014, 9:49 am

It was just a one off to not damage the pitch for the France game.

There might be more games in the future, but at 3000 capacity it isn't really big enough, even for Edinburgh!

by Nematode Wed 19 Mar 2014, 12:34 pm

Sorry, I know I've asked before but is Coman SQ?

by **RDW** Wed 19 Mar 2014, 12:36 pm

No, but he's 25 so still relatively young.

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