Delme Parfitt's list of 'Wales outside half contenders'

First topic message reminder :

Delme Parfitt included six players on his list of 'Wales outside half contenders' today: Owen Williams, Rhys Preistland, Dan Biggar, James Hook, Matthew Morgan and Rhys Patchell. This is my list of 'Wales outside half contenders': Owen Williams, Rhys Preistland, Dan Biggar, James Hook, Matthew Morgan, Rhys Patchell, Gavin Henson, Jason Tovey, Sam Davies, Jamie Murphy, Steffan Jones, Steven Shingler, Josh Lewis, Jordan Williams, Aled Thomas, Gareth Davies, Simon Humberstone, Dai Flanagan, Nicky Robinson, Ceri Sweeney, Nick Macleod and others. What is your list of 'Wales outside half contenders'?

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/sport-opinion/delme-parfitt-how-much-longer-6899311

Knowsit17 wrote:

The Bachelor wrote:I think I must be one of the only people on these forums who doesn't rate Rees.

Not quite.

Good club cv, not that much of an international standard player imo. An impact sub at best, I've seen him pick up the pace nicely in the last 20-40 mins but don't recall being impressed with the few starts he has had.

To be fair, most players that get the odd cap rarely have a chance to put a stream of international games together to show their worth

munkian wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:

The Bachelor wrote:I think I must be one of the only people on these forums who doesn't rate Rees.

Not quite.

Good club cv, not that much of an international standard player imo. An impact sub at best, I've seen him pick up the pace nicely in the last 20-40 mins but don't recall being impressed with the few starts he has had.

To be fair, most players that get the odd cap rarely have a chance to put a stream of international games together to show their worth

But why would you need a "stream" of caps to show you're good enough? You only need one good game to get picked in the game after that and the cycle repeats itself depending on how consistent you are. Rees wasn't consistent enough to hold down a place when he was involved, therefore I've never considered his omission to be a massive loss.

maestegmafia wrote:

Bluedragon wrote:just wondered if we could end up with the commentator's nightmare of Owen williams ( leicester ) at 10 and Owen williams ( blues ) at 13 ?

Or even better : gareth davies ( scarlets ) at 9 and gareth davies ( blues ) at 10....

On a serious note, I think the battle for 9 after the world cup will be betwen the two current scarlets : Garth Davies and Rhodri Williams, maybe Rhys Webb or Tacklebag Knoyle if he ousts lloyd Williams at the Blues. My favourite is Gareth Davies. Like a fast and decisive Mike Phillips.

And at 10, its a battle I think between Biggar keeping his place - and the young lads - Owen Williams and Rhys Patchell, maybe Steve Jock Shingler , or Sam Davies or jordan Williams if they are playing at 10 for their regions by then.

Its encouraging to see so many up and coming promising half backs in ( or from ) Wales.

What about Scarlets Gareth Davies at nine with the Blues Gareth Davies at ten and moving Tigers Owen Williams to inside centre with the Blues Owen Williams at outside centre...? The Shinglers at Fullback and Blindside as well and the commentary team might go on strike.

9. Rhodri Williams
10. Owen Williams
11.
12. Scott Williams
13. Owen Williams
14.
15. Liam Williams

While you shouldn't necessarily need a 'stream' of caps to show your worth, playing in a makeshift side should also have little bearing in the quality of a player. There are numerous welsh players that were never given their due on the international stage, a lot of them having come because of bad performances in the 'lesser' games where the wales management would drastically change the team and wonder why the games were a struggle. Rees and biggar copped the flack for the 16-16 draw with Fiji in 2010 and you can see how long it's taken Dan to get back in the frame, and even now you know they will probably go with priestland when he's fit.

Rees was on fire for the blues for a while but only had 3 starts for wales (Ireland, France & Fiji). You can't say he was given a fair crack when only 3 of his 9 caps were starts. How mnay chances has Priestland been given since his fall off of form?

There's also the fact that Howley never liked him  

IronMike wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Bluedragon wrote:just wondered if we could end up with the commentator's nightmare of Owen williams ( leicester ) at 10 and Owen williams ( blues ) at 13 ?

Or even better : gareth davies ( scarlets ) at 9 and gareth davies ( blues ) at 10....

On a serious note, I think the battle for 9 after the world cup will be betwen the two current scarlets : Garth Davies and Rhodri Williams, maybe Rhys Webb or Tacklebag Knoyle if he ousts lloyd Williams at the Blues. My favourite is Gareth Davies. Like a fast and decisive Mike Phillips.

And at 10, its a battle I think between Biggar keeping his place - and the young lads - Owen Williams and Rhys Patchell, maybe Steve Jock Shingler , or Sam Davies or jordan Williams if they are playing at 10 for their regions by then.

Its encouraging to see so many up and coming promising half backs in ( or from ) Wales.

What about Scarlets Gareth Davies at nine with the Blues Gareth Davies at ten and moving Tigers Owen Williams to inside centre with the Blues Owen Williams at outside centre...? The Shinglers at Fullback and Blindside as well and the commentary team might go on strike.

9. Rhodri Williams
10. Owen Williams
11. Shane Williams (temporarily out of retirement)
12. Scott Williams
13. Owen Williams
14. Jordan Williams
15. Liam Williams

There, an all-Williams backline 

gcBlues wrote:While you shouldn't necessarily need a 'stream' of caps to show your worth, playing in a makeshift side should also have little bearing in the quality of a player. There are numerous welsh players that were never given their due on the international stage, a lot of them having come because of bad performances in the 'lesser' games where the wales management would drastically change the team and wonder why the games were a struggle. Rees and biggar copped the flack for the 16-16 draw with Fiji in 2010 and you can see how long it's taken Dan to get back in the frame, and even now you know they will probably go with priestland when he's fit.

Rees was on fire for the blues for a while but only had 3 starts for wales (Ireland, France & Fiji). You can't say he was given a fair crack when only 3 of his 9 caps were starts. How mnay chances has Priestland been given since his fall off of form?

There's also the fact that Howley never liked him  

Firstly, I'd hardly say Rees was held back by makeshift sides playing around him. In the 2010 6N, where he started two games, the rest of the team selected was more or less the best we had available at the time (by my recollection at least). This is more or less why I've always said Rees struck me as more an impact sub than a starter, considering he always looked much better coming off the bench for Wales than any of the starts he made. Against France and Ireland that year we were beaten fairly comfortably, with Rees failing to impress for the most part. Against Fiji he was dire but then so were the rest of the team that day.

Secondly, Priestland is an anomaly of an example at this stage. His continued selection remains an eternal existential flaw which I simply can't justify. But this is the side of Gatland's approach which I've never liked: different standards for different players  

Knowsit17 wrote:

IronMike wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Bluedragon wrote:just wondered if we could end up with the commentator's nightmare of Owen williams ( leicester ) at 10 and Owen williams ( blues ) at 13 ?

Or even better : gareth davies ( scarlets ) at 9 and gareth davies ( blues ) at 10....

On a serious note, I think the battle for 9 after the world cup will be betwen the two current scarlets : Garth Davies and Rhodri Williams, maybe Rhys Webb or Tacklebag Knoyle if he ousts lloyd Williams at the Blues. My favourite is Gareth Davies. Like a fast and decisive Mike Phillips.

And at 10, its a battle I think between Biggar keeping his place - and the young lads - Owen Williams and Rhys Patchell, maybe Steve Jock Shingler , or Sam Davies or jordan Williams if they are playing at 10 for their regions by then.

Its encouraging to see so many up and coming promising half backs in ( or from ) Wales.

What about Scarlets Gareth Davies at nine with the Blues Gareth Davies at ten and moving Tigers Owen Williams to inside centre with the Blues Owen Williams at outside centre...? The Shinglers at Fullback and Blindside as well and the commentary team might go on strike.

9. Rhodri Williams
10. Owen Williams
11. Shane Williams (temporarily out of retirement)
12. Scott Williams
13. Owen Williams
14. Jordan Williams
15. Liam Williams

There, an all-Williams backline 

  

Can anyone do the forwards ?
I can only think of Bradley !

I see Phil Bennett is now talking up Owen Williams, apparently on the back of disappointing performances by DB and RP at the weekend. Only thing I have seen is the rather embarrassing conversion attempt by Priestland. Were they really as poor as Bennett suggests.


BTW I do not believe Williams is playing well enough to warrant a test cap, other than by default.

LondonTiger wrote:I see Phil Bennett is now talking up Owen Williams, apparently on the back of disappointing performances by DB and RP at the weekend. Only thing I have seen is the rather embarrassing conversion attempt by Priestland. Were they really as poor as Bennett suggests.


BTW I do not believe Williams is playing well enough to warrant a test cap, other than by default.

Not yet convinced that Williams has done enough to oust Biggar from the starting XV. Should he tour and Biggar has a below-par first test I wouldn't be against Williams starting the second test. I'm wondering whether the Ospreys' poor form in general this season has contributed significantly to Biggar's woes.

As is repeated constantly, Priestland has been nothing more than a liability for Wales over the last year or two. If he starts it'll be a farce, now more so than ever before given his appalling recent club form. I wouldn't currently have him anywhere near the matchday squad.

Priestland was poor on Sunday and that miss summed him up at the moment.

I think he is being managed very badly by Gatland and Co at the moment and if you look at how Lancaster his managing Cipriani a bit of that attitude with Priestland might not go a miss.

Williams seems to be playing well and at a higher level than the current Welsh incumbents so I think he deserves a chance, after all who else is there after Biggar and Priestland.

Patchell is out injured
Tovey has never really figured so can't see it happening now
Hook please no plus playing XV at Perp

Then who?

Not sure how Gatland has managed Priestland badly other than by picking him when he didn't deserve it. Has Lancaster done anything other than stay in touch with Cipriani and told him to keep playing well?

Biggar and Priestland (with Owens showing promise) are the best we have - sadly. A lack of playmakers at half back is what will hold us back, the current 9 and 10 options aren't good enough.

Would sooner play Gethin Jenkins at 10 than Priestland at this rate.

priestland be lucky to keep his number 10 scarlets shirt nevermind the Welsh one . Owen Williams in the possibles side against biggar be interesting

bedfordwelsh wrote:Priestland was poor on Sunday and that miss summed him up at the moment.

I think he is being managed very badly by Gatland and Co at the moment and if you look at how Lancaster his managing Cipriani a bit of that attitude with Priestland might not go a miss.

Williams seems to be playing well and at a higher level than the current Welsh incumbents so I think he deserves a chance, after all who else is there after Biggar and Priestland.

Patchell is out injured
Tovey has never really figured so can't see it happening now
Hook please no plus playing XV at Perp

Then who?

Hook played at 10 last weekend and the one before - though he has indeed spent most of the season at 15.

Is Hook contracted to Perpignan for next season?

I believe he is probably off to Japan. Shame, would love him at the Dragons