Rubin 'Hurricane' Carter passes away

Afternoon all,

Breaking news on the BBC Rubin 'Hurricane' Carter has passed away at his home in Toronto.

Too quick for me spencer

Glad you were first to respond Jeff, as one of our boxing historians could you please tell me a little more about him? I'd heard of the film and a little bit about the man but reading on the BBC it sounds like such a sad story of his incarceration. Unfortunately parts of the states were like that at the time.

I wouldn't claim to be an expert on him Spencer. I know he was teak tough and aggressive, but think his incarceration handled to his abilities being a bit overstated. The film portrays his loss to Giardielo as being a stitch up but it was nothing of the sort, was close but the decision was right. At the time he went to prison though he was young enough to have got another chance so may have gone on to win the title.

Thanks Jeff. Just checking out his boxrec and wiki pages now.

RIP 

I know the film portrays him as having a huge injustice perpetuated against him but I remember reading that he may have been guilty.

I don't know the full facts and will stand corrected by anyone who knows a great deal more then I do but as far as I am aware their was some controversy surrounding the film.

The controversy surrounding the film was more to do with his boxing career which painted him out to be a hard done by fighter who should have been world champion. It's the same problem with the song which is a favourite of mine actually it portrays something which isn't quite true.

As Rowley alluded to he deserved to lose against Giardello but they pushed the racial prejudice of the time to make out he'd been robbed combined with Joey's Italian connections it made for a good story.

RIP

Hammersmith harrier wrote:The controversy surrounding the film was more to do with his boxing career which painted him out to be a hard done by fighter who should have been world champion. It's the same problem with the song which is a favourite of mine actually it portrays something which isn't quite true.

As Rowley alluded to he deserved to lose against Giardello but they pushed the racial prejudice of the time to make out he'd been robbed combined with Joey's Italian connections it made for a good story.

RIP

I know he is painted as the Charley Burley of the H/W division.

I mean M/W

No expert on him, but no doubt the film... which was a good watch... paints him in a very complimentary manner, and not just his boxing career. There are other accounts that suggest he was no angel and probably guilty. I imagine we'll get both sides over the story coming out again in the next few days.

Yeah from what I've read this aft he was fond of the odd mugging so he wasnt a saint.

No, he wasn't a saint but as far as being a murderer, he was eventually cleared.

I read up on the case after watching the movie a while back, my personal take was that he probably was guilty, but there were lots of conflicting accounts, alibi's changing testimony etc. allegations of coercion and bribery of witnesses etc, so who knows who bribed who.

From memory he was never found not guilty, just that he didn't get a fair trial. A victim of prejudice or someone who used allegations of it to get off?  The truth has probably died with him.

It's not clear either way Milky, the evidence against him seemed spurious at best, in fact it was practically non existent, just two fellow criminals who didn't identify him personally saying it was someone who fit his description.

Rest In Peace

and wasn't Burley the Burley of the middleweight division?

... True, but seems he was a pathological liar who changed his story and faked alibis. If memory serves me correctly he beat up one of his female attorney's when on bail. Not the cute and cuddly guy Denzel portrayed.

I'm not a lawyer or familiar with American law, but if there's any doubt whatsoever, don't they have to find the defendant not guilty? It seems there was plenty of doubt with the evidence unless your mind was already made up.

Atila during this period lots of black men were wrongly convicted due to race which obviously was and still is a massive issue in the US in fact a black man who was in prison forover 20 years was released a few weeks ago because of race issues in his trial and subsequent conviction, so sometimes yes minds are made up before the case starts

Dont think anyone would dispute that wheelchair, doesn't necessarily mean carter was one of them.

I actually watched the film last week strangely enough. It painted a particular picture. Denzel most certainly didn't portray him to be a particularly nice guy, in fact a bit of a hot head who then changed a lot throughout prison and really struggled to trust white people.

But it did seem like it wasn't 100% on the level and most probably put him in a slightly better light than his character truly is.

I have no idea as to whether he did murder anyone though.

milkyboy wrote:Dont think anyone would dispute that wheelchair, doesn't necessarily mean carter was one of them.

Just going by what happened with regards to his release, it seems that yes, he was one of them Milky. An innocent man (with regards to the murder charges) that was wrongly convicted.

Good God he was 76, I must be getting old.

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Good God he was 76, I must be getting old.

No, mate. You are old.   

Atila wrote:

milkyboy wrote:Dont think anyone would dispute that wheelchair, doesn't necessarily mean carter was one of them.

Just going by what happened with regards to his release, it seems that yes, he was one of them Milky. An innocent man (with regards to the murder charges) that was wrongly convicted.

Bit circular this one Atila. The appeal he was released on was based on the prosecution not disclosing evidence and introducing a new motive at the second trial. 20 years on it was considered impractical to have a retrial. He wasn't tried and found not guilty.  We don't know whether he was innocent and probably never will. But innocent until proven guilty and all that. Like OJ.

Whichever, its good to see you taking a stance on official verdicts being indisputable. Leonard w12 hagler. Read it and weep fella 

milkyboy wrote:

Atila wrote:

milkyboy wrote:Dont think anyone would dispute that wheelchair, doesn't necessarily mean carter was one of them.

Just going by what happened with regards to his release, it seems that yes, he was one of them Milky. An innocent man (with regards to the murder charges) that was wrongly convicted.

Bit circular this one Atila. The appeal he was released on was based on the prosecution not disclosing evidence and introducing a new motive at the second trial. 20 years on it was considered impractical to have a retrial. He wasn't tried and found not guilty.  We don't know whether he was innocent and probably never will. But innocent until proven guilty and all that. Like OJ.

Whichever, its good to see you taking a stance on official verdicts being indisputable. Leonard w12 hagler. Read it and weep fella 

BLAH!

A boxer who inspired more people outside the ring than he did in it.............A big Boxing legend for all the wrong reasons..

Have to say Bob Dylan's song is one of my favorites.........Brilliantly written by a Man of enormous talent.......

A torrid life and one can only hope he found some peace in his last few years.......

RIP........