Time for a new, medium-sized stadium in England?

A 50,000 stadium bang in the middle of England (somewhere around Rugby) would be nice for UK sport.

Nothing ostentatious. Just a place to attract mid-sized crowds for lesser internationals in about the same place that Wembley should have been rebuilt.

Big enough for major events in rugby and football without compromising Das Kapital and yet easier for even Londoners to get to given the locations of the incumbent national stadia.

I'm sure that it could be wangled given the right political support.

No-one willing to pay for it.

There are already a lot of stadiums right across England- problem you have is they are owned by football clubs.

Northern Ireland/Belfasts lack of suitable stadiums and under-investment in infrastructure for sport over the years was the impetus for the investment to redevelop Ravenhill, Windsor Park and Casement. But England has;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stadiums_in_England

Quite a large number of grounds

If the Welsh can have the MS and Belfast a fancy, new bike shed, then maybe Mercia should have a bit of snout in the trough.

Centrally located and not encumbered by the inevitable slowing-down of traffic caused by the doomed HS2 ego-project.

Bring on the Mercian Assembly!

Notch wrote:There are already a lot of stadiums right across England- problem you have is they are owned by football clubs.

Northern Ireland/Belfasts lack of suitable stadiums and under-investment in infrastructure for sport over the years was the impetus for the investment to redevelop Ravenhill, Windsor Park and Casement. But England has;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stadiums_in_England

Quite a large number of grounds

London, London, London, Manchester, London, NE, NE, Manchester, Liverpool

Ah! Birmingham, Villa Park 42,788 off the joys and delights of the free-flowing spaghetti junction.

I'm looking for a multi-sport stadium of ~50000.

This will never happen, but in theory would be a great idea. Would need the support of a body like Sport England and private financial backing, but a 40 -50,000 capacity stadium in the Midlands, designed much like some of the NZ stadiums where you can also play cricket would be ideal. Cricket, football, league, union could all use it.

Notch wrote:There are already a lot of stadiums right across England- problem you have is they are owned by football clubs.

Northern Ireland/Belfasts lack of suitable stadiums and under-investment in infrastructure for sport over the years was the impetus for the investment to redevelop Ravenhill, Windsor Park and Casement. But England has;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stadiums_in_England

Quite a large number of grounds

Just looking at the pics of the Casement redevelopment, looks class!

38000 capacity and they've finally cleared the legal hurdles- should be a brilliant stadium

http://www.casementpark.ie/ - Hiberno's hijacking a thread again 'Kado   

Should Tigers ever complete WR that would be 32k easily accessible in central England.

Portnoy's complaint you enjoy these pie in the sky threads don't you?

As Londontiger says no one would be willing to pay for it.

If you were going to look at this seriously then you would need to pick a good location, work out how to pay for it, what it would be used for. Sometimes big stadiums just become a huge drain on finances because they are not used enough. Planning permission would also be tough.

Answer these questions logically then you could make some progress towards your goal.

The Midlands never it seems gets any of the funding nor benefit for vanity projects dreamt up by politicians. Probably because they literally and metaphorically represent middle England and therefore can be dismissed as unimportant.

HS2 for example will shave declared maximum of 30 minutes of a London to Manchester for a cool ~£45bn. The cost-benefit analysis prices in because the average hourly wage of those travelling is £70k (current prices).

The Chilterns and West Midlands will be ploughed up to satisfy the whims of a rich few and the Midlands will be effectively by-passed.

Well. What about a multi-purpose venue in the Midlands for all sports and entertainment?
That's not too much to ask is it?
It's not for London, Manchester an other points North.

What would we need the stadium for?

Besides you have big stadiums - Emirates (London), Old Trafford (Manchester) and St James (Newcastle) are the 3 biggest. They might be football, but im sure some agreements could be arranged for one off games.

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:The Midlands never it seems gets any of the funding nor benefit for vanity projects dreamt up by politicians. Probably because they literally and metaphorically represent middle England and therefore can be dismissed as unimportant.

HS2 for example will shave declared maximum of 30 minutes of a London to Manchester for a cool ~£45bn. The cost-benefit analysis prices in because the average hourly wage of those travelling is £70k (current prices).

The Chilterns and West Midlands will be ploughed up to satisfy the whims of a rich few and the Midlands will be effectively by-passed.

Well. What about a multi-purpose venue in the Midlands for all sports and entertainment?
That's not too much to ask is it?
It's not for London, Manchester an other points North.

Try living in Newcastle. Any big events are held in London....we have to travel.

Its amazing that the AB's and Boks have been scheduled to play here in the WC next year...but i really dont expect to get any tickets as the non rugby supporting corporate people will get all the tickets.

Even all the top bands dont come here anymore. We used to get all the top rock bands...now i have to travel all over to see them.

Its hugely frustrating.

Well Old Trafford looks to be out of the market for rugby given what happened on the run up to the RWC. Sad.

You would have thought that Birmingham, being the size it is, should have a big stadium somewhere.

lostinwales wrote:Well Old Trafford looks to be out of the market for rugby given what happened on the run up to the RWC. Sad.

You would have thought that Birmingham, being the size it is, should have a big stadium somewhere.

Villa Park is 42k

Mickado wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Well Old Trafford looks to be out of the market for rugby given what happened on the run up to the RWC. Sad.

You would have thought that Birmingham, being the size it is, should have a big stadium somewhere.

Villa Park is 42k

Yes but Manchester, which is a smaller city, has two grounds bigger than that

Mickado wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Well Old Trafford looks to be out of the market for rugby given what happened on the run up to the RWC. Sad.

You would have thought that Birmingham, being the size it is, should have a big stadium somewhere.

Villa Park is 42k

I believe there were plans in place to increase this to 50k. Whether this is still the case or not im not sure.

Such a stadium already exists in tne Midlands and has no tenant at the moment - the Ricoh Arena in Coventry has a capacity of 32,000 and is fully equipped and ready to go.

I understand that there are lots of local politcal issues around it but it would be ideal as a "second home" for rugby in one of it's hotbeds.

Notch I only mention politics in relevance to this thread. Politicians do become important when it comes to getting planning permission etc for stadiums.

Politicians can block stadiums if they wish. A midlands stadium is not something I could see politicans getting excited about.

Things like gay marriage and banning fox hunting have been seen as much more important issues.

They have been so successful because their supporters have been so unbelievably vocal.

Portnoy Complaint if you want your voice to be heard you must be vocal - drum up support for a Midlands stadium. Put this issue on the map.

Bang on Beshocked.

Wheres Coventry playing then if they are not at the Ricoh arena?

The problem with being multi-sport is that sport in general is specialised.

Hockey requires an astroturf pitch.
Football & rugby - grass (hybrid).
Athletics - a running track and infrastructure for field events.

If you want one for say a neutral venue for say football and rugby semi-finals/finals then who will pay for it?

a 50,000 seater stadium will still cost say 250MM GBP (it is the UK afterall). To pay for it the investors will demand its use for music events which will destroy the grass etc... but keep the cash coming in.

Whats it going to be when its not being used... a white elephant, one that costs a shed load to maintain and is used rarely... we have one in Cape Town... the one built for the world cup in 2010.
The government don't know what to do with it... trying to force the Stormers to use it as their base.... but the problem is, it only caters for 55,000 people and the Stormers would have to lease it.... yet they already own their own 52,000 stadium in Newlands... so whats the point???

Football and rugby have separate priorities. Multi-sport means different groups wanting to comprimise and in this case it would mean that everyone is unhappy with the result and worst of all the bill at the end.

I'd rather say the RFU sponsors projects for groundshare projects between rivals such as Bath and Bristol for a larger say 30000 stadium say which they can both use.... perhaps inbetween the 2 cities (whats the distance??? 10km)

The marginalisation of the provinces always appears to a non-agenda project as London (mainly) for some reason sucks the life and soul out of the rest of the country with its publicly-funded Millium Dome(O2), the Olympic Park and the associated regeneration plans to benefit the wealthy, the rebuilding (OK, not publicly-funded) Wembley Stadium in the godforsaken barren wastelands of the North London suburbs.

You're right. A stink should be kicked up. But Westminster would just get the deodorant out and plan the next huge splurge of cash investment to be directed towards the Capital.

Just goes to show that the Midlands should have known better to absorb its millions of immigrants and London commuters so gracefully. Fools that they are in the heartlands.

I took a considered, long-term view to reject job offers in London and decided that to the thought of raising a family there or any other metropolis would be tantamount to child abuse.

Portnoy's Complaint I agree that the UK is too London centric but it's not surprising is it?

You say Westminster can get the deodorant out - I am not sure that they could if you are vocal enough. Depends how much support you can drum up.

If enough people stand up to the focus upon London then you should see results.

To convince someone to build a 50,000 seater in the Midlands it must be seen as financially liable. I do think it's possible with the right planning,investment and location but it would be a challenge.

If you could convince sports clubs to get behind it and high profile bands to go there - it could work.

It would need a lot of support from within the Midlands though to stand any chance.

How big is the capacity at the Ricoh in Coventry? Went there few seasons back for the EDF double header semi final and through a drunken haze remember it being a decent size.

Wasn't best place to get to being and out of town stadium but wasn't overly bad.

'Latha buidhe Bealltain dhuibh uile' should be moved to 'off topic' too!

Can't see why IL's getting a ticking off, Notch.

Me maybe, but not him.

But what I've said is on-topic in the context of my OP.
Part of the very idea that plonking a multi-purpose sports/entertainment areana in the middle of the country would require a political buy-in. And I'm not so dim-witted as to not appreciate that.

I tend to find that most discussions like this don't cause problems so long as the trolls are kept at bay.

So is HS2 bypassing Birmingham?

Scrumpy wrote:'Latha buidhe Bealltain dhuibh uile' should be moved to 'off topic' too!

Shut up Scrumps. PM the mods or use the ! icon.

I did, but it pays to have mates in high places, very much like the British political system.

Who would pay for this stadium?

Blimey, how the other half live.

What's the extent of The Midlands? About 150 miles North to South and maybe 200 miles East to West (including East Anglia? How many stadia of 10k+, how many of 20k+ and 30k+? Loads upon loads upon loads.

If you're in Penzance, you'd pass just three 10k+ stadia on your almost 200 mile journey to the nearest 20k+ stadium in Bristol or 200 plus miles to the 30k+ St Marys in Southampton (with another 10k+ in Bournemouth).

There are far greater priorities both in rugby and UK sport than Portnoy's convenience.

Having said that, Worcester is pretty much halfway between the professional rugby outposts in England, Penzance and Newcastle, so let's just develop Sixways?

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:Can't see why IL's getting a ticking off, Notch.

Me maybe, but not him.

But what I've said is on-topic in the context of my OP.
Part of the very idea that plonking a multi-purpose sports/entertainment areana in the middle of the country would require a political buy-in. And I'm not so dim-witted as to not appreciate that.

I tend to find that most discussions like this don't cause problems so long as the trolls are kept at bay.

Sorry Ports, removed a post by IL which I was referring to. He's a good egg though, he won't worry too much about it. Had pints with him at the Heineken Cup Final in 2012.

I want to make it clear that discussing whether the political will exists or the money is there for a stadium is fine.

Notch you remove my posts yet are happy when posters hijack threads and flood them with irrelevant posts see Gunsgerms posts about Wilkinson being a mercenary - starting a numeous debate on what's a mercenary.

You also allow a certain NZ poster to create numerous WUMs.


I dislike those double standards.

I admit I have been guilty of irrelevant posts but on these I have added the relevance of mentioning politics in regards to sport.

If people are offended by my political posts then that's different - is that the case?


Politics is significant in getting a new stadium. I know that for example to get planning permission for Allianz Park - approval from Boris Johnson, mayor of London was needed.

A politician who disagrees with plans for a new stadium could well be a real significant obstacle.

There are so many hoops one must jump through.

Its ok when Guns does it, this place is losing it!

Who Polices the Police?

Dubbya, The Midlands is what it says on the tin.

Newcastle and Cornwall are far-flung.

A multi-purpose site near Rugby would not just benefit rugby fans, but other sports and entertainments too.

The thinking behind my post is that a location at the hub of the motorway network would optimise access from all areas. Not just a geographically distant nor an urban/metropolitan few.

That's not a whole step-change of imaginative thought processes that underpinned he siting of the NEC for instance.

Portnoy's complaint if you seriously want this to happen then make a compelling case:

Answer these questions

1.Where will the stadium be located.

2.Who will pay for it?

3.How will be financially liable?

4.When will it be used and by whom?

5.Is there enough interest in this?

beshocked wrote:Notch you remove my posts yet are happy when posters hijack threads and flood them with irrelevant posts see Gunsgerms posts about Wilkinson being a mercenary - starting a numeous debate on what's a mercenary.

Thats a rugby debate, you may dislike his opinion, but it's relevant to rugby. If you have an issue with his posts report them. The other issue you mention is currently being discussed by the moderation team.

We do not allow political posts on the rugby forum because it leads to more work for us. If you think this is unique, go and talk to the Scottish posters about what happens when they start on about the referendum. How hard is it to stay on topic?

There are no double standards, your posts had nothing to do with rugby and nothing to do with the topic of this post.

Really don't think there is a need for this stadium to be honest, there was a case for the National Stadium to be moved there before Wembley was built but alas what's done is done.

Notch wrote:

beshocked wrote:Notch you remove my posts yet are happy when posters hijack threads and flood them with irrelevant posts see Gunsgerms posts about Wilkinson being a mercenary - starting a numeous debate on what's a mercenary.

Thats a rugby debate, you may dislike his opinion, but it's relevant to rugby. If you have an issue with his posts report them. The other issue you mention is currently being discussed by the moderation team.

We do not allow political posts on the rugby forum because it leads to more work for us. If you think this is unique, go and talk to the Scottish posters about what happens when they start on about the referendum. How hard is it to stay on topic?

There are no double standards, your posts had nothing to do with rugby and nothing to do with the topic of this post.

Sorry Notch, i disagree totally.

Beshocked is a regular genuine member. He had a valid point.

GE is simply here to disrupt threads, wind people up and in general his opinions can very offensive (if you were the easily offended type.)
As mentioned Gunsngerms, Rainbow warrior etc etc all come across as aggreesive and disruptive.

I wouldnt be surprised if they were all the same person to be honest.

Time you banned them all.

Notch wrote:

beshocked wrote:Notch you remove my posts yet are happy when posters hijack threads and flood them with irrelevant posts see Gunsgerms posts about Wilkinson being a mercenary - starting a numeous debate on what's a mercenary.

Thats a rugby debate, you may dislike his opinion, but it's relevant to rugby. If you have an issue with his posts report them. The other issue you mention is currently being discussed by the moderation team.

We do not allow political posts on the rugby forum because it leads to more work for us. If you think this is unique, go and talk to the Scottish posters about what happens when they start on about the referendum. How hard is it to stay on topic?

There are no double standards, your posts had nothing to do with rugby and nothing to do with the topic of this post.

Disagree Notch. It's just an excuse for you to abuse your privileges as a mod. If I have offended anyone then by all means delete it. I did not think it did and it was relevant to this thread as we were talking about stadiums and the like. Trying to get something like this approved.

The original post with a political map really wasn't a problem for anyone of any political persuasion and it was relevant to the rugby based debate.

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:

Having said that, Worcester is pretty much halfway between the professional rugby outposts in England, Penzance and Newcastle, so let's just develop Sixways?

If you include the london clubs, I reckon the "barycenter" of English rugby is somewhere east of worcester on the M40 but for convenience reasons I suggest to move it a bit and declare Milton Keynes the new HQ easy to get to as well and plenty of fun with all those roundabouts! sell Twickenham to some Qatari investor and develop the MK stadium

Am I right in thinking the MK stadium was designed to be redeveloped by adding a 2nd and 3rd tier if required?

beshocked wrote:Portnoy's complaint if you seriously want this to happen then make a compelling case:

Answer these questions

1.Where will the stadium be located.

2.Who will pay for it?

3.How will be financially liable?

4.When will it be used and by whom?

5.Is there enough interest in this?

1. For me, the optimum location would be either just north or just south of Rugby (incidentally a great place to associated with our sport) Near the Cathorpe interchange which links to the North and East (M1, M6, A1/A14), South (M1) and West/South-West (M5, M45?) etc. Plus a variety of lesser motorways (M42, M69 etc.). Pin me down and I'd plump for SE of Rugby between Js 17 and 18 of the M1.
2. Primarily it would be funded by sources from the public sector and maybe the National Lottery. As

Ozzy wrote:This will never happen, but in theory would be a great idea. Would need the support of a body like Sport England and private financial backing, but a 40 -50,000 capacity stadium in the Midlands, designed much like some of the NZ stadiums where you can also play cricket would be ideal. Cricket, football, league, union could all use it.

I'd go further and recommend that as an entertainment destination such a venue could have a not insignificant attraction to private sector investors. They probably have considered (and rejected) it

3. The viability of any project is a matter of concern to all stakeholders. But centrally located in England and with as good a transport (from air, road and rail) infrastructure as anywhere in these crowded isles, frankly it just seems so bleedin' obvious.

4. For Football, Rugby, Cricket and entertainment it could be used all year round.

5. Is there enough interest in this? I don't know. The fact is I couldn't know - not being a smartarse London corporate bod nor a politician up for a jig-a-jig with his/her electors. Probably not.

But, hey,  that didn't stop the Humber Bridge being built as the ultimate white elephant as a sop to political expedience.

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:If the Welsh can have the MS and Belfast a fancy, new bike shed, then maybe Mercia should have a bit of snout in the trough.

Centrally located and not encumbered by the inevitable slowing-down of traffic caused by the doomed HS2 ego-project.

Bring on the Mercian Assembly!

I can appreciate why you may want a central England stadium, but I cant let this moronic statement go...

The Welsh have the MS because it is our NATIONAL stadium, paid for by the WRU and built for when we hosted the RWC. This is no different to Twickers old boy....

I suspect you said this for a reaction.. there it is. Now stop throwing moronic statements out like this, and stick to a genuine logical argument for a stadium in the midlands....  

The only way such a multisport stadium were to be built would be if Warwickshire and Aston Villa/Birmingham City though it was a good idea and were able to sell their current traditional and historic grounds to developers. Such a Stadium would be more likely to be near the M5/M6 Junctions.

However demand for such a stadium is rather non-existant.

beshocked wrote:

Notch wrote:

beshocked wrote:Notch you remove my posts yet are happy when posters hijack threads and flood them with irrelevant posts see Gunsgerms posts about Wilkinson being a mercenary - starting a numeous debate on what's a mercenary.

Thats a rugby debate, you may dislike his opinion, but it's relevant to rugby. If you have an issue with his posts report them. The other issue you mention is currently being discussed by the moderation team.

We do not allow political posts on the rugby forum because it leads to more work for us. If you think this is unique, go and talk to the Scottish posters about what happens when they start on about the referendum. How hard is it to stay on topic?

There are no double standards, your posts had nothing to do with rugby and nothing to do with the topic of this post.

Disagree Notch. It's just an excuse for you to abuse your privileges as a mod. If I have offended anyone then by all means delete it. I did not think it did and it was relevant to this thread as we were talking about stadiums and the like. Trying to get something like this approved

  

You're a joker mate. If I was abusing my position as a mod you wouldn't still be around the forum, would you? You're not banned, you're not even warned, because its a very minor thing. All I'm telling you is that we don't allow political posts as they tend to cause us more work when people disagree. It's quite simple. Keep religion, politics and race off the forum. Easiest way to keep the peace. If you get a mod decision against you which isn't based on very simple rules like do not abuse other posters or do not post off-topic political screeds then you can complain.

But right now you are complaining about having to go by the same rules as everyone else.