European Champions Cup qualifying play off. London Wasps v Stade Français.

A new concept this one to decide who takes the 20th spot in next season's ECC.

London Wasps team:-

15. Andrea Masi 
14. Will Helu 
13. Elliot Daly 
12. Chris Bell (c) 
11. Tom Varndell 
10. Andy Goode 
9. Joe Simpson 
1. Matt Mullan 
2. Carlo Festuccia 
3. Phil Swainston 
4. Joe Launchbury 
5. Tom Palmer 
6. Ashley Johnson 
7. James Haskell 
8. Nathan Hughes

16. Tom Lindsay 
17. Simon McIntyre 
18. Taione Vea 
19. Kearnan Myall 
20. Guy Thompson 
21. Brett Sheehan 
22. Joe Carlisle 
23. Charlie Hayter
_____________________

I can't find the SF team anywhere. Wasps ring the changes after last week's embarrassment at Northampton. Jake Cooper-Woolley (outstanding this season) will be missed.

The Black & Gold need to rack up a substantial win to hold off SF at Stade Jean Bouin next weekend.

SF :

H. Bonneval ; Arias, Vuidravuwalu, Bosman, Camara ; (o) Steyn, (m) Dupuy ; Nicolas, Lyons, Burban ; Papé (cap), Flanquart ; Slimani, Sempéré, Taulafo.

Subs: Panis, Van der Merwe, Kubriashvili, Van Zyl, LaValla, Fillol, Plisson, Sinzelle.

Merci bien, whocares. I couldn't see anything on the SF site.

Wasps will need to get the better of that pack. We've scrummaged pretty well this season, and Festuccia is accurate at the lineout - Lindsay is not!

Big games from Launchbury, Johnson and Haskell, plus Goode to put us in the right areas of the field, may see us through this one.

WASP for me as well. SF set piece is good and they sometimes have an ambitious game plan but missing Parisse might be too much for them

When are the Wasps SF matches?

Tomorrow and next weekend

Sorry, didn't see this thread.

Mods, can you delete my duplicate?

Watching the first leg. Stade ahead 6-7. Daly is playing in midfield which should interest people wondering about Lancaster's options.

Any opinions on Masi being taken out in the air. Lacey waved play on and didn't even stop the game so Masi could get treatment for a head injury.

There was another incident earlier when two players collided and clearly needed attention.

Wasps fans were incensed that the game was not stopped on both occasions.

I'm pretty sure Lacey was reffing when we played Dragons at the CCC in the HC 4 seasons ago when the Dragons 3 went down with a potential broken leg. Again play was waved on when the player may have needed oxygen. This ref needs to realise that he needs to appreciate player welfare.

I take it back on the Dragons game; the ref was Peter Allan. But it was equally incompetent as the two incidents today.

30-29 to Wasps, who let a 12pt lead slip with two pieces of ineptitude. Sums up our season - often very sharp in attack, but gift our opponents points.

Only a last minute penalty gives us something to defend in Paris.

How did Daly and Haskell go? Could be opportunities for both of them in NZ

I deleted it Rugby Fan   

Hound, feel like Wasps needed to get a bigger lead than that. It'll be very hard to go over to Paris and win. Disappointed, I quite like watching Wasps play but I would quite like to see Ulster renew their rivalry with Stade as well.

Hask was good. Daly needs to run straight more often rather than arc round the outside. Sometimes he makes it but more often than not he cramps the space out wide.

Agreed Notch. At 27-15 we should have nailed that.

Dawson kept drooling over Daly but I agree with Hound on his overall impact.

Haskell was up for the match and a little unlucky not to get a try. A Stade player slapped it back untidily from a lineout, Haskell collected it and sprinted clear. The TMO judged that Tom Palmer of Wasps also got fingertips on the ball as it went back and called a knock-on.

He did then get yellow-carded for tackling without retreating ten yards. The player was heading for the try line at the time so, arguably, he took one for the team. It might have been a Haskell brain fart, though.

With Simpson scoring a wonderful try while they were down to 14 men, it looked like Wasps would do the job and have a handy margin. At the end, though, they'll be pleased to have any margin at all, since they could just as easily have lost.

Varndell looked in good nick, and took his try well.

RF - Hask definitely took one for the team and he knew it. He trotted off like an obedient puppy being sent to its basket.

Considering how little respect some of the mid-table French teams have for the Heineken Cup and don't commit to the competition, why should they suddenly strive to qualify for the ERC Cup?

To be fair, Stade have taken both European competitions seriously. They've found themselves in the Amlin in recent years and have given it a good go.

Finalists in 2011 and 2013.

Once a French team get embroiled in a relegation tussle the HC becomes a secondary concern. Mind you, the fiasco with Bourgoin a few years ago should have seen ERC lay down rules about fielding your strongest team in the HC and ECC.

A few problems to be sorted yet. http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/european-rugby-champions-cup/2014-2015/bernard-lapasset-souleve-des-zones-d-ombre-au-sujet-de-l-european-rugby-champions-cup_sto4255429/story.shtml

translated by google here.



Bernard Lapasset raises shadows on the European Rugby Cup Champions
Mazella by Clement and Fabien POMIES the 05/20/2014 at 14:15 , updated on 05/20/2014 at 15:40 @ RugbyramaFR
The IRB Chairman , Bernard Lapasset , launched a stir Monday night in the show " The Stage Games " on France Bleu Toulouse on the European Rugby Cup Champions . In terms of right or organization. As proof, the French Stade dam -London Wasps is not even " approved " .

Negotiations to reach an agreement

Bernard Lapasset confess : it was not easy at all to find an agreement for the organization of the forthcoming European Cups . But for him, the change was needed. The IRB chairman admits personally intervened to prevent overflow , especially pointing to the behavior of English . And he did not hide : the current agreement " is unfortunately not yet completed ."

"There was a need to change, find a different reading of the European Cups . Initially, it was pretty rough . Financial environment was the major issue . The first half was extremely complicated where clashes have been alive between BT and Sky ( UK TV channels , ed.) I did not really like the behavior of British clubs were limits in an organization of private contracts they signed their own interests without French clubs participate and above other nations. in this regard, there is a bias that is not very good. this is why I was forced to intervene in a second half where we were firmer. I sent England to fire. Federation the English began to negotiate with the English clubs with more links with French clubs. This was more complicated with other nations to finally reach an agreement which does is unfortunately not yet completed . We still have much work to do but we have stabilized things . "

We need a pro rugby organized, structured around not only two countries such as France and England

No date on the draw hens

For now, we know that the future of Europe Cup will include twenty teams. But the fuzzy rule as to the composition of the pools and the designation of seeds.

" For now it is a little early. These are things that are decided here, thence by the connections between the various officials between French and English . Quickly I will formalize this part for that there is a procedure that installs quickly . it is too uncertain , too in the reconstruction without really having weighed and measured the reality of a real strategy for this new company . "

     It is still too uncertain , too in the reconstruction

What used right ?

Another strategic point for the European Rugby Cup Champions : the right used . Again, navigating custody. The headquarters of the ERC was to Dublin. That of CARE is provided Neuchâtel. A puzzle in perspective rights are not the same. Bernard Lapasset believes it is important to deal with it " around a table ".


"The new headquarters of the company will install in Neuchâtel, Switzerland . What is the validity of Swiss law with respect to British laws on certain decisions ? Does the discipline will be the domain of Swiss law or will the field of IRB ? These are simple questions that the normal operation of competition . So I really wonder we moved around the table and that we look at what is Swiss law. Certainly commercial rights . Otherwise, the level of governance, arbitration, doping control , control of illegal paris , etc. . All this requires that the IRB look closely to give his opinion to support the party it deserves . "

All I got from that was that Google Translatpor sucks ass.

Is he suggesting the unions haven't followed the rules properly in setting up this competition?

He is saying that not enough preparation work has been done to set up this competition and the IRB have not oked the competition yet.  

I seem to remember the ERC were challenged legally by some clubs over disciplinary issues. Since rugby isn't played professionally in Switzerland, they have no experience of how the law will operate. For instance, if a player is disciplined by this new company for say contact close to the face even though they might not have damaged this person, the player's club could challenge them about the player being disciplined for it (damaging their commerical chances of winning a trophy by suspending a player).

They have no precedent to know how Swiss law will deal with this.

Ok, so, since the unions remain in charge of discipline they've dropped the ball? And the unions have approved a competition without IRB approval?

From memory the French challenged the old system (Irish law?) because the level of evidence was lower than that required by French law. Specifically the Tincu case.

HammerofThunor wrote:Ok, so, since the unions remain in charge of discipline they've dropped the ball? And the unions have approved a competition without IRB approval?

From memory the French challenged the old system (Irish law?) because the level of evidence was lower than that required by French law. Specifically the Tincu case.

The Unions & IRB are one and the same. Maybe they are just giving the clubs enough rope to hang themselves?

No they aren't. The unions that have approved the competition are the 6 nations ones. The IRB is all unions. If the 6 Nations have forged ahead with the competition without the IRB approval then they've been naughty.

If they've set up the discipline structure with no idea what the local implications are then they're stupid. Not really sure what this us to do with the clubs. Unions still over see cross boarder competitions.

Getting back to the game!

I was really dissapointed with Daly at 13, he was poor in both attack and defense. Probably Wasps weakest link in the backs and I think to blame for a lot of the inroads that Stade made. Perhaps if he was to play the Baabaa's he should be on the wing for the moment, another season at 13 will do him good but I can't help but think Wasps would have done better to have had the Italian at 13 for his D.

Hask went well though which may be good for England. Very physical and got through a ton of work, good turn of pace as well which will go well alongside Robshaw. Haskshaw or Robshall though?

Sin é wrote:He is saying that not enough preparation work has been done to set up this competition and the IRB have not oked the competition yet.  

I seem to remember the ERC were challenged legally by some clubs over disciplinary issues. Since rugby isn't played professionally in Switzerland, they have no experience of how the law will operate. For instance, if a player is disciplined by this new company for say contact close to the face even though they might not have damaged this person, the player's club could challenge them about the player being disciplined for it (damaging their commerical chances of winning a trophy by suspending a player).

They have no precedent to know how Swiss law will deal with this.

Not sure what the local court or law will have to do with discipling players since the ERC and the IRB probably do not ask irish courts to judge their cases... unless you are talking about what happens if the decision is challenged.

the ERCC will have I believe his own control and disciplinary body with members from all unions (assuming they copy the UEFA model) and their own set of internal rules and regulations to apply if a player has to be disciplined. It is is important to note that if this new body is set up under Swiss law (which it should) then such rules cannot be contradictory with Swiss law as otherwise Swiss law will supersede them. that said if one party does not agree with said ruling claiming it is unfair or unlawful then there is always the CAS (court of arbitration for sport) which is more than competent (at least way more than a local swiss or irish court) and based next door in Lausanne

Sin - can you set up a separate article to continue the Euro politics crepe please.

This is a match thread.

yappy - Wasps problem in midfield is Chris Bell. Stick Masi in there as well and there isn't much pace.

Masi at 12 and Daly at 13 is our best combo. We would need Jonah Holmes back from Leeds to cover 15, which would ideally be filled by Tommy Bell from the current squad.

Revised seedings after the weekend's games.
Tier 1 Five teams from Leinster, Glasgow, Toulon, Castres, Saracens, Northampton.
Tier 2 One team from (Leinster, Glasgow, Touluon, Castres, Saracens, Northampton.), Munster, Montpellier, Leicester, One team from (Harlequins, Ulster, Racing.)
Tier 3 Two teams from (Harlequins, Ulster, Racing.), Ospreys, Bath, Clermont.
Tier 4, Scarlets, Sale, Toulouse, Treviso, Wasps or Stade Francais.

Hound of Harrow wrote:Sin - can you set up a separate article to continue the Euro politics crepe please.

This is a match thread.

 


Good luck Pests

whocares wrote:

Sin é wrote:He is saying that not enough preparation work has been done to set up this competition and the IRB have not oked the competition yet.  

I seem to remember the ERC were challenged legally by some clubs over disciplinary issues. Since rugby isn't played professionally in Switzerland, they have no experience of how the law will operate. For instance, if a player is disciplined by this new company for say contact close to the face even though they might not have damaged this person, the player's club could challenge them about the player being disciplined for it (damaging their commerical chances of winning a trophy by suspending a player).

They have no precedent to know how Swiss law will deal with this.

Not sure what the local court or law will have to do with discipling players since the ERC and the IRB probably do not ask irish courts to judge their cases... unless you are talking about what happens if the decision is challenged.

the ERCC will have I believe his own control and disciplinary body with members from all unions (assuming they copy the UEFA model) and their own set of internal rules and regulations to apply if a player has to be disciplined. It is is important to note that if this new body is set up under Swiss law (which it should) then such rules cannot be contradictory with Swiss law as otherwise Swiss law will supersede them. that said if one party does not agree with said ruling claiming it is unfair or unlawful then there is always the CAS (court of arbitration for sport) which is more than competent (at least way more than a local swiss or irish court) and based next door in Lausanne

I was referring to challenges of the disciplinary findings in the courts. The point the Lapassat is making is that the ERCC hasn't thought about how the rules and regs of the new organisation or the discipline are managed. They need to get this done urgently.

Hound of Harrow wrote:Sin - can you set up a separate article to continue the Euro politics crepe please.

This is a match thread.

yappy - Wasps problem in midfield is Chris Bell. Stick Masi in there as well and there isn't much pace.

Masi at 12 and Daly at 13 is our best combo. We would need Jonah Holmes back from Leeds to cover 15, which would ideally be filled by Tommy Bell from the current squad.

I posted it here because Lapassat is saying that these playoff games are not approved by the Unions/IRB, so you might have to play them again!

Hound of Harrow wrote:Sin - can you set up a separate article to continue the Euro politics crepe please.

This is a match thread.

yappy - Wasps problem in midfield is Chris Bell. Stick Masi in there as well and there isn't much pace.

Masi at 12 and Daly at 13 is our best combo. We would need Jonah Holmes back from Leeds to cover 15, which would ideally be filled by Tommy Bell from the current squad.

Ah fair enough, honestly though with the calibre of wingers that you have do you need much guile in the centre? Just two solid defenders who can run straight may do you more good. Definitely worked for Quins when we got Molenaar and JTH together, seems to give more direction to the backs that way.

Do you think Daly is going to end up as a 13/14 or 15 long term? Or forever a utility back??

I see Daly as a 13, especially if he can learn to appreciate what is around him more.

Having wingers like Vardell and Wade is all very well, but not if your 13 arcs wide all the time and cramps the space out wide.

He can counter attack very effectively from 15 but is prone to more than the odd brain fart!

Sin - I appreciate the (garbled translation of) Lapasset's comments were partly relevant to this play off. I just didn't want the thread decending into the tiresome finger pointing seen on so many other threads.

In any case haven't ERCC said that this is just a one off. In following seasons a Pro12 team will also be involved in the play offs and a place will be given to the winners of the 2nd tier competition.

Nothing has been approved by the Unions/IRB yet and the ERCC need their approval to run cross-border competition.

It seems to be all a bit amateurish to me.

Wasps leading 7-0 after the first 13 minutes. Goode had a chance to make it 10-0 put pushed his kick wide.

Stade have answered with a penalty 3-7

Haskell has just been yellow carded for retaliating after a Stade player slid his knees into Joe Simpson. The Stade player was also given a yellow.

There was a lengthy TMO delay. Wasps turned the ball over and Simpson ran a try in under the posts. Reviews showed that Haskell had tackled high some way back in the move so the try was disallowed and Stade have just scored from the resulting penalty.

6-7 to Wasps.

Haskell isn't doing himself any favours with these cards.

Wasps make it 6-10. A Stade player stopped Wasps taking a quick lineout and Goode kicked the penalty.

I see what you mean about the yellow cards, but his scrum half just got whacked way after the play was effectively over.. I'd expect my pack to do the same if I was Simpson!

Rugby Fan wrote:Haskell has just been yellow carded for retaliating after a Stade player slid his knees into Joe Simpson. The Stade player was also given a yellow.

There was a lengthy TMO delay. Wasps turned the ball over and Simpson ran a try in under the posts. Reviews showed that Haskell had tackled high some way back in the move so the try was disallowed and Stade have just scored from the resulting penalty.

6-7 to Wasps.

Haskell isn't doing himself any favours with these cards.

It was Thompson that was ruled to have tackled high.

Stade Francais lack of accuracy at times in this game...

Some good play by Haskell there.

I find it tough to take Goode seriously, he looks like the tramp on the bench I pass every day leaving work

See the video ref managed to get the pictures straight away for that one...

Strange situation with the replays on that potential gouging

BamBam wrote:Strange situation with the replays on that potential gouging

Who is it that controls the replays? i presume it wouldn't be the video ref, i imagine he would ask the clips to be queued up by the broadcaster.

Yeah I reckon so nathan, bit open to manipulation for the home team though ..

Stade Francais try to play from inside their 22. End up passing it behind the dead ball line. Not great.

Notch wrote:Stade Francais try to play from inside their 22. End up passing it behind the dead ball line. Not great.

from watching this i don't think they deserve to qualify for next year

No, me neither, and it looks like they won't be either with that try.

The only decent reason I can imagine for that delay is that they were looking for a camera which had a view of the incident. It was on the ground, and away from the centre of attention, so there might not have been a shot.