Has La Liga overtaken the EPL as the worlds best league?

by Champagne_Socialist Sun 18 May 2014, 7:32 pm

Has La Liga overtaken the EPL as the worlds best league? Winners of the Europa league and Champions league this season.

4 different La Liga winners in the last 10 years in Valencia, Real, Barcelona and atletico.

Their league has won the most European cups in the last 15 years.

The worlds best players play in la liga and have done so since 2007. The 2 lst winners of the ballon dor in kaka and ronaldo also play in la liga (kaka recently left)

Is it safe to say that La Liga is the worlds best league in terms of competition and quality of teams?

by Duty281 Sun 18 May 2014, 7:40 pm

I'm a football fan, so I don't watch La Liga.

The World Series of Diving is always good though.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Sun 18 May 2014, 7:45 pm

Quality? Yes.

Entertainment? No.

by Champagne_Socialist Sun 18 May 2014, 7:46 pm

Duty281 wrote:I'm a football fan, so I don't watch La Liga.

The World Series of Diving is always good though.

Why don't you back that up with a statistic. How many players were booked in la liga for diving last season compared to the EPl?

How many Spanish teams were booked in the Champions league and Europa league this year for diving compared to English teams?

by Champagne_Socialist Sun 18 May 2014, 7:47 pm

Olly wrote:Quality? Yes.

Entertainment? No.

If it is just entertainment my sunday league team (in the 14th league of English football) has far more entertainment than the EPL.

by Champagne_Socialist Sun 18 May 2014, 7:50 pm

I have la liga on 16 and the EPL on 28 bookings for dives.

by Duty281 Sun 18 May 2014, 7:52 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Duty281 wrote:I'm a football fan, so I don't watch La Liga.

The World Series of Diving is always good though.

Why don't you back that up with a statistic. How many players were booked in la liga for diving last season compared to the EPl?

How many Spanish teams were booked in the Champions league and Europa league this year for diving compared to English teams?

Whatever statistic is produced, one way or the other, wouldn't be an accurate reflection as referees are very inconsistent on the issue of simulation.

by Hammersmith harrier Sun 18 May 2014, 7:53 pm

All that stat shows is that English referees are more inclined to book players for diving something which is far more prevalent in Spain than England, I don't need a stat to prove otherwise.

by Champagne_Socialist Sun 18 May 2014, 7:54 pm

in 2012/2013 the EPl was second in the big 5 leagues for diving behind Seria A with 34 bookings, la liga had 30.

by Champagne_Socialist Sun 18 May 2014, 7:57 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Duty281 wrote:I'm a football fan, so I don't watch La Liga.

The World Series of Diving is always good though.

Why don't you back that up with a statistic. How many players were booked in la liga for diving last season compared to the EPl?

How many Spanish teams were booked in the Champions league and Europa league this year for diving compared to English teams?

Whatever statistic is produced, one way or the other, wouldn't be an accurate reflection as referees are very inconsistent on the issue of simulation.

The statistics show the EPL has more divers based on the yellow cards handed out I just find it interesting you state La Liga is full of divers when the EPL has more divers....

by kingraf Sun 18 May 2014, 8:10 pm

I like la Liga, it's very skilled, and even a poor la liga player not named Soldado is generally a very skilled and intelligent footballer. I think it's about even with the EPL to be honest. A lot is said about it's depth, but I think it's a bit of a nothing case. Reality is, nowadays the money is global, and that means there isn't ONE financially attractive league, as was the case with Italy in the 90s, or the EPL of the noughties. The takeaway is that the days of one all-powerful league are gone, and it's a lot more even now.

by kingraf Sun 18 May 2014, 8:10 pm

I like la Liga, it's very skilled, and even a poor la liga player not named Soldado is generally a very skilled and intelligent footballer. I think it's about even with the EPL to be honest. A lot is said about it's depth, but I think it's a bit of a nothing case. Reality is, nowadays the money is global, and that means there isn't ONE financially attractive league, as was the case with Italy in the 90s, or the EPL of the noughties. The takeaway is that the days of one all-powerful league are gone, and it's a lot more even now.

by kingraf Sun 18 May 2014, 8:11 pm

I like la Liga, it's very skilled, and even a poor la liga player not named Soldado is generally a very skilled and intelligent footballer. I think it's about even with the EPL to be honest. A lot is said about it's depth, but I think it's a bit of a nothing case. Reality is, nowadays the money is global, and that means there isn't ONE financially attractive league, as was the case with Italy in the 90s, or the EPL of the noughties. The takeaway is that the days of one all-powerful league are gone, and it's a lot more even now.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Sun 18 May 2014, 10:21 pm

Sorry, King, run that by me again?

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Sun 18 May 2014, 10:22 pm

That diving debate is nonsense by the way. You can't use bookings to justify, the standards in refereeing (not quality, but the standards they hold as dives etc) don't compare well.

by NickisBHAFC Sun 18 May 2014, 10:31 pm

Nothing will ever overtake the EPL, never.

by Ent Sun 18 May 2014, 11:24 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:Has La Liga overtaken the EPL as the worlds best league? Winners of the Europa league and Champions league this season.

4 different La Liga winners in the last 10 years in Valencia, Real, Barcelona and atletico.

Their league has won the most European cups in the last 15 years.

The worlds best players play in la liga and have done so since 2007. The 2 lst winners of the ballon dor in kaka and ronaldo also play in la liga (kaka recently left)

Is it safe to say that La Liga is the worlds best league in terms of competition and quality of teams?

When was la liga behind the epl...

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Sun 18 May 2014, 11:33 pm

If La Liga did notably overtake the Premier League then Ent would only suggest Ligue Un is better anyway before cutting himself cos a footballer smiled on TV

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Mon 19 May 2014, 12:32 am

Interesting tweet I saw

Miguel Delaney ‏@MiguelDelaney 27m
Number of clubs that have won title in each major league: Germany 29, England 23, Italy 16, Spain 9

by socal1976 Mon 19 May 2014, 5:43 am

I disagree, there is traditionally a huge drop off between the top 2 and the rest of the teams and this year a big drop off between 3 and the rest of the league. La liga has the two biggest clubs in the world. Between 3rd place Real Madrid and 4th place Atletico there is a 17 point drop off. That is the same difference in point total between 1st place Man City and 6th place Spurs. The fact is that while La Liga's best sides are the best in the world the mid table and lower end teams are not as high quality as the EPL. For me the fact that the EPL has a mix of the huge clubs and a large number of quality teams in the upper and middle ranks outside of the contenders makes for a better league from top to bottom.

Even when looking at star players few players from the premier league leave at their peak to play in La liga. And when they do it is often a huge name going to Barca or Real. Meanwhile la liga has been filling the premier league with numerous stars playing at a variety of clubs. EPL lost Bale, Cesc, and Ronaldo to the Real and Barca. In return we have Cazorla, silva, mata, negredo, Aguero, Tevez, Ya ya and boatload of other quality players across the board coming here. The really big names will find their way towards Barca and Real; but more talent in general moves from la liga to the Epl than the other way around.

by kingraf Mon 19 May 2014, 8:11 am

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Sorry, King, run that by me again?

Essentially, mate. The days of one league gobbling up the talent are gone. A kid is as likely to move to PSG, Monaco, or Zenit, or even earn decent dosh at favourable taxes in Asia, as he is to move to a big league. Quality is dispersed wider, and thus, the likelihood of any league becoming the Serie A of the 90s lessens.

by Champagne_Socialist Mon 19 May 2014, 12:22 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:That diving debate is nonsense by the way. You can't use bookings to justify, the standards in refereeing (not quality, but the standards they hold as dives etc) don't compare well.

Well if someone makes a controversial statement you at least expect them to have some kind of fact backing them up. La liga has less yellow cards than the EPL. And if the EPL the majority of players who are booked for diving are British, the top 3 consists of Gareth Bale, Ashley Young and Janujuai(who qualified for England).

by Champagne_Socialist Mon 19 May 2014, 12:24 pm

socal1976 wrote: The fact is that while La Liga's best sides are the best in the world the mid table and lower end teams are not as high quality as the EPL. For me the fact that the EPL has a mix of the huge clubs and a large number of quality teams in the upper and middle ranks outside of the contenders makes for a better league from top to bottom.

But the mid table and lower teams in La Liga are winning the Europa league (beating English teams on route) whilst the mid table English teams are not.

by **Crimey** Mon 19 May 2014, 12:26 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:That diving debate is nonsense by the way. You can't use bookings to justify, the standards in refereeing (not quality, but the standards they hold as dives etc) don't compare well.

Well if someone makes a controversial statement you at least expect them to have some kind of fact backing them up. La liga has less yellow cards than the EPL. And if the EPL the majority of players who are booked for diving are British, the top 3 consists of Gareth Bale, Ashley Young and Janujuai(who qualified for England).

Yeah, but the only fact you had in rebuttal was basically irrelevant. Bookings for diving is such a poor mark of how much diving there is in a league because of the different styles of refereeing. Yes it is good to have facts to back it up, but just plucking a basically inapplicable fact is just as bad.

Also Januzaj could never have played for England because of the unique Home Nations rules. He was never eligible to play unless there was a change in the rules.

by **Crimey** Mon 19 May 2014, 12:28 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
socal1976 wrote: The fact is that while La Liga's best sides are the best in the world the mid table and lower end teams are not as high quality as the EPL. For me the fact that the EPL has a mix of the huge clubs and a large number of quality teams in the upper and middle ranks outside of the contenders makes for a better league from top to bottom.

But the mid table and lower teams in La Liga are winning the Europa league (beating English teams on route) whilst the mid table English teams are not.

Well Atletico Madrid and Sevilla are not lower teams, Atletico are 5th in La Liga's all-time league table and Sevilla are 7th, just about mid-table. But Fulham got to the Europa League final five years ago, Chelsea and Liverpool have both won the Champions League from 5th position. It's not unique to Spain.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Mon 19 May 2014, 12:34 pm

kingraf wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Sorry, King, run that by me again?

Essentially, mate. The days of one league gobbling up the talent are gone. A kid is as likely to move to PSG, Monaco, or Zenit, or even earn decent dosh at favourable taxes in Asia, as he is to move to a big league. Quality is dispersed wider, and thus, the likelihood of any league becoming the Serie A of the 90s lessens.

I was joking cos you put it three times Cool

by Ent Mon 19 May 2014, 12:41 pm

Things go in cycles, over the last few years Spain's has come again.

Late noughties epl was the best (barca the best side though, unfortunately).

As dolph says top players being hoarded all over Europe in massive squads by rich clubs. Unlikely to see a general gravitation towards one league again.

by Champagne_Socialist Mon 19 May 2014, 12:49 pm

Crimey wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:That diving debate is nonsense by the way. You can't use bookings to justify, the standards in refereeing (not quality, but the standards they hold as dives etc) don't compare well.

Well if someone makes a controversial statement you at least expect them to have some kind of fact backing them up. La liga has less yellow cards than the EPL. And if the EPL the majority of players who are booked for diving are British, the top 3 consists of Gareth Bale, Ashley Young and Janujuai(who qualified for England).

Yeah, but the only fact you had in rebuttal was basically irrelevant. Bookings for diving is such a poor mark of how much diving there is in a league because of the different styles of refereeing. Yes it is good to have facts to back it up, but just plucking a basically inapplicable fact is just as bad.

Also Januzaj could never have played for England because of the unique Home Nations rules. He was never eligible to play unless there was a change in the rules.

I had 2 facts in rebuttel the first being a comparison of yellow cards issued to the two leagues and a second being the number of yellow cards in the EPL and who they were handed out to. I understand what you are saying about refs etc but when someone makes a sweeping statement made on some rumours they heard down the pub you would expect them to research it a bit before churning oout nonsense.

by Champagne_Socialist Mon 19 May 2014, 12:52 pm

Crimey wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
socal1976 wrote: The fact is that while La Liga's best sides are the best in the world the mid table and lower end teams are not as high quality as the EPL. For me the fact that the EPL has a mix of the huge clubs and a large number of quality teams in the upper and middle ranks outside of the contenders makes for a better league from top to bottom.

But the mid table and lower teams in La Liga are winning the Europa league (beating English teams on route) whilst the mid table English teams are not.

Well Atletico Madrid and Sevilla are not lower teams, Atletico are 5th in La Liga's all-time league table and Sevilla are 7th, just about mid-table. But Fulham got to the Europa League final five years ago, Chelsea and Liverpool have both won the Champions League from 5th position. It's not unique to Spain.

But to argue that the quality of mid table teams in la liga is lower than the quality of mid table epl teams you would need some evidence eg competitive games played between the two. Athletico bilbao, valencia, sevilla, atletico madrid have all beaten EPL teams in the europa league in recent years.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Mon 19 May 2014, 1:07 pm

Didn't Swansea spank Valencia this year9

As Ent says it goes in cycles

by socal1976 Mon 19 May 2014, 1:17 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Crimey wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
socal1976 wrote: The fact is that while La Liga's best sides are the best in the world the mid table and lower end teams are not as high quality as the EPL. For me the fact that the EPL has a mix of the huge clubs and a large number of quality teams in the upper and middle ranks outside of the contenders makes for a better league from top to bottom.

But the mid table and lower teams in La Liga are winning the Europa league (beating English teams on route) whilst the mid table English teams are not.

Well Atletico Madrid and Sevilla are not lower teams, Atletico are 5th in La Liga's all-time league table and Sevilla are 7th, just about mid-table. But Fulham got to the Europa League final five years ago, Chelsea and Liverpool have both won the Champions League from 5th position. It's not unique to Spain.

But to argue that the quality of mid table teams in la liga is lower than the quality of mid table epl teams you would need some evidence eg competitive games played between the two. Athletico bilbao, valencia, sevilla, atletico madrid have all beaten EPL teams in the europa league in recent years.

Didn't the 4th place side from spain last year Sociedad get absolutely crushed in their group stage in the champion's league and man handled by United who weren't exactly the best side in the premiership this year. Spain had a great year this year, Germany had a great year last year. But for me the quality of the league is measured more over a period of a few years and not season to season.

by kingraf Mon 19 May 2014, 1:26 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
kingraf wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Sorry, King, run that by me again?

Essentially, mate. The days of one league gobbling up the talent are gone. A kid is as likely to move to PSG, Monaco, or Zenit, or even earn decent dosh at favourable taxes in Asia, as he is to move to a big league. Quality is dispersed wider, and thus, the likelihood of any league becoming the Serie A of the 90s lessens.

I was joking cos you put it three times

Haha didn't catch that. Been double posting for a while now, think my Galaxy's well and truly had it

by whocares Mon 19 May 2014, 1:27 pm

quality is always subjective but will give a try to that debate being after all "neutral"

let's divide each league teams in 4 categories :
1- teams that can aim to win the league and do well in the CL (EPL wins here)
2 - either old glories that might be past their hey days or newcomers with pedigree, can cause trouble to the category 1 teams on their day and be competitive in the europa league (maybe la Liga wins)
3. mid table teams that are competitive at home and can bring a few surprises (EPL wins by miles)
4. the rest, making up numbers , improving goal difference of the top teams and trying not to be relegated. (see below)

the problem of la liga is only not the gap between the 1st two categories but mainly that almost of half of the teams are in the last categories (rayo vallecano finished 12th with 21 defeats and a goal difference of -34!!).
when half of the teams main target is to avoid relegation (or bankrupcy) it is not usually seen as a sign of quality...

by cherriesfna Mon 19 May 2014, 1:33 pm

half of la liga would struggle in the championship

but im not sure if thats a testiment to la liga being avaerage outside the top 7 or the championhsip being in the top 10 leagues in Europe

by kingraf Mon 19 May 2014, 1:38 pm

cherriesfna wrote:half of la liga would struggle in the championship

but im not sure if thats a testiment to la liga being avaerage outside the top 7 or the championhsip being in the top 10 leagues in Europe

I do love unscientific opinions spouted as facts

by **Crimey** Mon 19 May 2014, 1:39 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Crimey wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:That diving debate is nonsense by the way. You can't use bookings to justify, the standards in refereeing (not quality, but the standards they hold as dives etc) don't compare well.

Well if someone makes a controversial statement you at least expect them to have some kind of fact backing them up. La liga has less yellow cards than the EPL. And if the EPL the majority of players who are booked for diving are British, the top 3 consists of Gareth Bale, Ashley Young and Janujuai(who qualified for England).

Yeah, but the only fact you had in rebuttal was basically irrelevant. Bookings for diving is such a poor mark of how much diving there is in a league because of the different styles of refereeing. Yes it is good to have facts to back it up, but just plucking a basically inapplicable fact is just as bad.

Also Januzaj could never have played for England because of the unique Home Nations rules. He was never eligible to play unless there was a change in the rules.

I had 2 facts in rebuttel the first being a comparison of yellow cards issued to the two leagues and a second being the number of yellow cards in the EPL and who they were handed out to. I understand what you are saying about refs etc but when someone makes a sweeping statement made on some rumours they heard down the pub you would expect them to research it a bit before churning oout nonsense.

To be fair, it's not rumours that fuel the view that in the Spanish leagues diving, or at least going down easily, is more prevalent. It's incredibly obvious to anybody watching a match in the Spanish leagues.

by kingraf Mon 19 May 2014, 1:41 pm

whocares wrote:

3. mid table teams that are competitive at home and can bring a few surprises (EPL wins by miles)

Did I imagine the last three weeks of la liga?

by cherriesfna Mon 19 May 2014, 1:50 pm

kingraf wrote:
cherriesfna wrote:half of la liga would struggle in the championship

but im not sure if thats a testiment to la liga being avaerage outside the top 7 or the championhsip being in the top 10 leagues in Europe

I do love unscientific opinions spouted as facts

lets face it if it dosnt involve Atleti Real or Barca its not worth watching.

All the teams in the top halve of the championship would survive La liga

by whocares Mon 19 May 2014, 1:59 pm

kingraf wrote:
whocares wrote:

3. mid table teams that are competitive at home and can bring a few surprises (EPL wins by miles)

Did I imagine the last three weeks of la liga?

I dont really care about the last 3 weeks. Am interested in the bigger picture and am barely looking at the final standings. Like I said it is your right to enjoy a Elche Vs Almeria game and to each his own etc... you would need to merge both leagues to really assess their relative quality properly anyway.

by jbeadlesbigrighthand Mon 19 May 2014, 2:25 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:That diving debate is nonsense by the way. You can't use bookings to justify, the standards in refereeing (not quality, but the standards they hold as dives etc) don't compare well.

Well if someone makes a controversial statement you at least expect them to have some kind of fact backing them up. La liga has less yellow cards than the EPL. And if the EPL the majority of players who are booked for diving are British, the top 3 consists of Gareth Bale, Ashley Young and Janujuai(who qualified for England).

What 'facts' would proved the point? The one you've provided shows nothing. It would only show that diving is more prevalent in the EPL if the standards of refereeing were identical, which they aren't. Not every opinion can be backed up with hard data.

Januzaj isn't English, and has never qualified for England.

by cherriesfna Mon 19 May 2014, 2:28 pm

u sure?:

by J.Benson II Mon 19 May 2014, 2:37 pm

La Liga is comfortably better than EPL currently.
They will have the CL's winner and the Europa league winner.
Barca comfortably beat City, the best PL team in the CL.
Strength in depth is impossible to measure but La Liga is easily ahead at the top end of the tables.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Mon 19 May 2014, 3:14 pm

The winners of competitions has only slight bearing. Hell, dodgy reffing and Aguero's fitness decided the City match. That Barca defence would have claimed lasagne poisoning if Sergio had played. All if's and but's, however thats really a fanciful way of saying one league is better.

by J.Benson II Mon 19 May 2014, 4:25 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:The winners of competitions has only slight bearing. Hell, dodgy reffing and Aguero's fitness decided the City match. That Barca defence would have claimed lasagne poisoning if Sergio had played. All if's and but's, however thats really a fanciful way of saying one league is better.

2 out of the 2 CL finalists are from La Liga. A few years ago (2008 I think), the EPL was in a similar position and it was seen as proof of the EPL's superiority. The same principle should apply now.

by GSC Mon 19 May 2014, 4:30 pm

Crimey wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:That diving debate is nonsense by the way. You can't use bookings to justify, the standards in refereeing (not quality, but the standards they hold as dives etc) don't compare well.

Well if someone makes a controversial statement you at least expect them to have some kind of fact backing them up. La liga has less yellow cards than the EPL. And if the EPL the majority of players who are booked for diving are British, the top 3 consists of Gareth Bale, Ashley Young and Janujuai(who qualified for England).

Yeah, but the only fact you had in rebuttal was basically irrelevant. Bookings for diving is such a poor mark of how much diving there is in a league because of the different styles of refereeing. Yes it is good to have facts to back it up, but just plucking a basically inapplicable fact is just as bad.

Surely its better than "La Liga has more diving because I said so" as an indicator?

by GSC Mon 19 May 2014, 4:34 pm

Anyway, right now its obviously La Liga. For all the talk of depth they had 2 sides in the semi final of the EL, we had 0. More mediocre sides isn't better depth.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Mon 19 May 2014, 5:02 pm

I'm not sure thats how you quantify a best league.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Mon 19 May 2014, 5:07 pm

J.Benson II wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:The winners of competitions has only slight bearing. Hell, dodgy reffing and Aguero's fitness decided the City match. That Barca defence would have claimed lasagne poisoning if Sergio had played. All if's and but's, however thats really a fanciful way of saying one league is better.

2 out of the 2 CL finalists are from La Liga. A few years ago (2008 I think), the EPL was in a similar position and it was seen as proof of the EPL's superiority. The same principle should apply now.

It depends what you are discussing. Dominance and best are slightly different.

I'd also argue that cup football is a hard way of proving anything. Odds suggested Chelsea and Bayern would go through, so beforehand Spain were considered weaker. Worth taking into account, even if the form book has since been burned and the remains binned.

by Guest Mon 19 May 2014, 5:12 pm

rubbish. it's all about priority. EPL sides don't have semi finalists because we priorite top 4 & finanicial gain. When we did prioritise, with a cup manager, benitez & chelsea won it. We always have top clubs competing for top 4 & europa league & you simply can't do both. Valencia were doing well in spain, prioritised the cup & now languish around 10th in the league. Great!

Saying, they had two semi-finalists in a cup, our clubs dont prioritise is nonsense. The clubs involved in the europa league are usually battling relegation nowadays, NUFC, Stoke, Swansea & I expect Hull next year, due to the competitiveness & toughness of our league. They simply cant afford to concentrate on this poor cup, which has no financial gain whatsoever. Stop saying because dont have semi-finalists, that our league is poor, simply not the case.

Yeah, the top echelons of Spain are better but we far have the better quality distributed throughout the league.

by Hammersmith harrier Mon 19 May 2014, 5:43 pm

Judging it based on European competition is also impossible to measure, it's not a league format where the cream rise to the top every season. Over the course of two legs doesn't define superiority while the Europa league is seen as hindrance to many teams and often involves two lower English teams who had a good cup run. Wigan, Tottenham and Swansea for instance didn't represent the best of the rest this season.

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