Arise Sir Jonny....

Jonny Wilkinson to be knighted in Queens Birthday honours....
 
 
 
... you heard it here first...
 
 

I don't know how quickly these things work, but I'd be surprised if he didn't get knighted at some point.

Now that's someone who would deserve it rather than some corporate fatcat who sponsors the current government!

Why... why would anyone deserve a knighthood or any other award for doing their job...

If that's the case I believe I should be knighted as I have done my job every day for the last 30 years, come rain or shine, I'm there. I'm never the last in and never the first to leave.

So, tell me Cyril, what has Jonny done that I haven't to deserve a knight hood or any other public award. And don't say win a World Cup, because he wasn't on his own, and others haven't been knighted... PLUS as I say, it was his job, which he is paid very well to do...

So, what has he done outside of his job that stands him above all others to get such a high award.

(agree about fat cats though...).

No9 wrote:Why... why would anyone deserve a knighthood or any other award for doing their job...

If that's the case I believe I should be knighted as I have done my job every day for the last 30 years, come rain or shine, I'm there. I'm never the last in and never the first to leave.

So, tell me Cyril, what has Jonny done that I haven't to deserve a knight hood or any other public award. And don't say win a World Cup, because he wasn't on his own, and others haven't been knighted... PLUS as I say, it was his job, which he is paid very well to do...

So, what has he done outside of his job that stands him above all others to get such a high award.

(agree about fat cats though...).

Not a fan of knighthoods eh, tell me, what was the point in posting this thread?

It's long been a facet of the honours system that outstanding sporting achievement is rewarded with high honours. Look at Sir Steve Redgrave, Sir Matthew Pinsent, Sir Chris Hoy, Dame Kelly Holmes, Dame Tanni Grey-Thompson and Sir Bradley Wiggins.

It's not entirely fair, but the system rewards the figurehead and not the team behind them. Foster and Cracknell haven't been knighted, nor have other members of the cycling and athletics teams.

Jonny was the figurehead of the team, and more to the point he's carried himself with tremendous dignity and professionalism since. He is a role model to whom people still look up, even 11 years on.

I could quite understand you not agreeing with sporting knighthoods at all, but given the system is what it is, the guy deserves one at least as much as those above.

Knighted

No way. Beatification at least.   

Mourad asked the LNR if Toulon could remove the number 10 jersey from their starting XV... in honour of JW. Now that's a bit extreme.

WTF that is usually done when a player dies and would be totally wrong in this case.

Scratch wrote:WTF that is usually done when a player dies and would be totally wrong in this case.

Has it ever been done?

Not sure in rugby but it gets done in nascar and other sports where a current player dies

They did it in the NBA a few times when the likes of Jordan and Bird retired. I dont want to see that happening in rugby otherwise in 10 years time the numbers wont have any meaning at all.

whocares wrote:They did it in the NBA a few times when the likes of Jordan and Bird retired. I dont want to see that happening in rugby otherwise in 10 years time the numbers wont have any meaning at all.

Boudjellal won't get that one. There are no parallels in shirt numbering in rugby compared to US sports where several players have had their shirt numbers retired.

But when you can number them 1-99 there's scope for that sentimentality.

Didn't Maldini have his AC Milan shirt retired?

No9 - The honours system is used to acknowledge outstanding achievement. Other than charity work, the vast majority will be awarded to people doing their job, as that's the area people tend to achieve most in. These days, almost anyone who achieves anything noteworthy in sports, music etc will be doing it for a living. Do you have the same objection to Ian McKellen or Terry Pratchet getting them, for example?

There's scope in football these days for shirt numbers to be retired, given squad numbering.

Anyway, according to No9 Wilkinson was just doing his job.

Then he mentions a player (in the other thread) who retired ridiculously early (selfishly or otherwise), thus depriving the rugby watching world of his talent at international level.

JW may not have been the most naturally gifted 10, but he had mental fortitude aplenty.

It is common in American sport when a truly great retires, the team retires the number as well.  They usually don't wait for the player to die because it makes it hard for the player to attend the ceremony and accept the honour.  The NY Yankees, the most successful baseball team by a big margin has at least 14 or 15 numbers retired.  And they are on display at Yankee Stadium.  But as someone said above, this doesn't work in Rugby, even with the once in a lifetime player like Jonny.  Numbers have particular meanings in Rugby which aren't duplicated in other sports.

If we go straight on to elevate Jonny to Sainthood (if one believes in that kind of thing), then we would have a Saint Jonny's day.  Most likely it would be every Saturday from September to May.  Usually celebrated by hoisting a beer at 3:00pm.

For the benefit of those who no longer have an Empire, here is a list of the current pointless awards that the Queen could bestow on Saint Jonny. I'd like to see him get the "Queens Commendation for Bravery in the Air" for services under the high ball.   

Companion of Honour
This is awarded for having a major contribution to the arts, science, medicine, or government lasting over a long period of time.
Knight/Dame
This is awarded for having a major contribution in any activity, usually at national level. Other people working in the nominee’s area will see their contribution as inspirational and significant, requiring commitment over a long period of time.
Commander of the Order of the British Empire (CBE)
This is awarded for having a prominent but lesser role at national level, or a leading role at regional level. You can also get one for a distinguished, innovative contribution to any area.
Officer of the Order of the British Empire (OBE)
This is awarded for having a major local role in any activity, including people whose work has made them known nationally in their chosen area.
Member of the Order of the British Empire (MBE)
This is awarded for a significant achievement or outstanding service to the community. An MBE is also awarded for local ‘hands-on’ service which stands out as an example to other people.
British Empire Medal (BEM)
Reintroduced in 2012, this rewards a sustained, local contribution or innovative, high-impact work of a relatively short duration (eg 3 to 4 years).
Overseas Territories Police and Fire Service Medals
Given for service in British Overseas Territories.
Royal Victorian Order (RVO)
An award given by the Queen - usually to people who have helped her personally, like members of the Royal household staff or British ambassadors.
The George Cross
For acts of heroism and courage in extreme danger.
The George Medal
For acts of great bravery.
The Queen’s Gallantry Medal
For special acts of bravery.
The Queen’s Commendation for Bravery and The Queen’s Commendation for Bravery in the Air
For risk to life.

Didn't bath used to play without a number 13.... the fullback was always no. 16

Got to love the old days. ABC, whatever you wanted went as long as it was tradition.

Given that the UK hands over MBEs to lolly pop ladies and toilet cleaners with long service it sort of puts those "honours" into perspective.

I imagine one direction will get an honour before JW gets another.

fa0019 wrote:Given that the UK hands over MBEs to lolly pop ladies and toilet cleaners with long service it sort of puts those "honours" into perspective.

I imagine one direction will get an honour before JW gets another.

 
The honours system should (and often does) reward people who perform thankless tasks and contribute to their community for long periods of time. How are these people you seem to hold in disregard any less worthy of recognition?

troll

Honours are meant to reward REAL achievement.

Tell me whats the achievement in doing the above as a job? Sorry to be on my high horse but if its to put food on their families table then well, start handing them out to everyone else.

A family members mentor for instance has just retired, she was a doctor. I've met her once or twice. Working class northern lass, built herself up from nothing. Put herself through medical school and has just retired with near 40 years at the top of her game. Didn't get an honour even though she was apparently in the top 3% of all consultant doctors position wise, was well published and had international recognition in her field. They are the real people who make a difference in the world.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that people with no ambition, no drive to better themselves nor their family should be honoured for simply putting food on the table for themselves compared to people like this lady?

If its the best they can be fine, if they overcame unimaginable difficulties to do their job, fine... I applaude them for not taking the easy route and simply picking up their cheque on a thursday morning..... but a national honour, please.

We're not talking about some humble charity worker who spends every spare minute and 1000s of pounds of their own money each year on disadvantaged kids etc.

The honours system is a crock. A high proportion goes out to either populist people in the media with debatable positive service to the country, jobsworth civil servants and mates of politicans trying to buy favour.

fa0019 wrote:troll

Honours are meant to reward REAL achievement.

Tell me whats the achievement in doing the above as a job? Sorry to be on my high horse but if its to put food on their families table then well, start handing them out to everyone else.

A family members mentor for instance has just retired, she was a doctor. I've met her once or twice. Working class northern lass, built herself up from nothing. Put herself through medical school and has just retired with near 40 years at the top of her game. Didn't get an honour even though she was apparently in the top 3% of all consultant doctors position wise, was well published and had international recognition in her field. They are the real people who make a difference in the world.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that people with no ambition, no drive to better themselves nor their family should be honoured for simply putting food on the table for themselves compared to people like this lady?

If its the best they can be fine, if they overcame unimaginable difficulties to do their job, fine... I applaude them for not taking the easy route and simply picking up their cheque on a thursday morning..... but a national honour, please.

We're not talking about some humble charity worker who spends every spare minute and 1000s of pounds of their own money each year on disadvantaged kids etc.

The honours system is a crock. A high proportion goes out to either populist people in the media with debatable positive service to the country, jobsworth civil servants and mates of politicans trying to buy favour.

what miserable, cynical rubbish

you use the stereotypical argument about lollipop ladies or cleaners which reveals you actually know deck all about the honors system.

Honours are for dedication and if that is to a small job and they make a big impact on those around them to the extent they receive an honor then what reward for a lifetime of cleaning toilets.

Get back to your bog brush and try harder

can you tell me why Gary Mabbutt got an MBE?

nathan wrote:

No9 wrote:Why... why would anyone deserve a knighthood or any other award for doing their job...

If that's the case I believe I should be knighted as I have done my job every day for the last 30 years, come rain or shine, I'm there. I'm never the last in and never the first to leave.

So, tell me Cyril, what has Jonny done that I haven't to deserve a knight hood or any other public award. And don't say win a World Cup, because he wasn't on his own, and others haven't been knighted... PLUS as I say, it was his job, which he is paid very well to do...

So, what has he done outside of his job that stands him above all others to get such a high award.

(agree about fat cats though...).

Not a fan of knighthoods eh, tell me, what was the point in posting this thread?

Errrrr.. sarcasm..   

Poorfour wrote:It's long been a facet of the honours system that outstanding sporting achievement is rewarded with high honours. Look at Sir Steve Redgrave, Sir Matthew Pinsent, Sir Chris Hoy, Dame Kelly Holmes, Dame Tanni Grey-Thompson and Sir Bradley Wiggins.

It's not entirely fair, but the system rewards the figurehead and not the team behind them. Foster and Cracknell haven't been knighted, nor have other members of the cycling and athletics teams.

Jonny was the figurehead of the team, and more to the point he's carried himself with tremendous dignity and professionalism since. He is a role model to  whom people still look up, even 11 years on.

I could quite understand you not agreeing with sporting knighthoods at all, but given the system is what it is, the guy deserves one at least as much as those above.

That assumes the above deserve one... Can nearly see the call for Tanni, but that's because she battled to overcome disabilities and hence a leading role model for the disable. Also, sport wasn't her job and I believe her award is more for what she has done for people with disabilities than her sporting awards (which where tremendous achievements...).

Hound of Harrow wrote:

whocares wrote:They did it in the NBA a few times when the likes of Jordan and Bird retired. I dont want to see that happening in rugby otherwise in 10 years time the numbers wont have any meaning at all.

Boudjellal won't get that one. There are no parallels in shirt numbering in rugby compared to US sports where several players have had their shirt numbers retired.

But when you can number them 1-99 there's scope for that sentimentality.

Key thing here is the shirt number in rugby is positional (as per starting line-up) and NOT squad numbers as in football, or majority of US based sports. Jonny has not always worn 10 (and I don't mean when he played at centre). If he comes off the bench, when he has, he's not wearing 10 then.

Keep the squad shirt numbering out of rugby that's what I say...

On a side note... Just made me think about Bath never used to field the 13 shirt through superstition. Do they field it now, I cant recollect whether I've seen the 13 on a Bath player recently.. Not something you look for when watching really is it... Also, loads of clubs used to field letters instead of numbers... Anyone know if that is still happening...

thomh wrote:Didn't Maldini have his AC Milan shirt retired?

No9 - The honours system is used to acknowledge outstanding achievement. Other than charity work, the vast majority will be awarded to people doing their job, as that's the area people tend to achieve most in. These days, almost anyone who achieves anything noteworthy in sports, music etc will be doing it for a living. Do you have the same objection to Ian McKellen or Terry Pratchet getting them, for example?

Yep.... If they use their celebrity status for good causes, then I can be swayed, but if it is only "for doing their job" then no... They get handsomely paid for that, shouldn't have a gong for it as well...

And that goes for Civil Servants as well... They (the higher grade servants) seem to think an award is their right. Awards should be earned, by doing something completely unselfish for no personal reward. Not turning up for work, taking a heft pay-packet (high ranking Civil Servants - appreciate the lower grades aren't as highly paid), then gong from the Queen and a lovely "high" pension.

Hound of Harrow wrote:There's scope in football these days for shirt numbers to be retired, given squad numbering.

Anyway, according to No9 Wilkinson was just doing his job.

Then he mentions a player (in the other thread) who retired ridiculously early (selfishly or otherwise), thus depriving the rugby watching world of his talent at international level.

JW may not have been the most naturally gifted 10, but he had mental fortitude aplenty.

I was going to dispute this, as I couldn't remember... Then I thought. You must be referring to the "best NH FH" thread, and I mentioned the King, Barry John... If that's the point you referred to, then you cant make comparisons. Barry John did retire very early. But he didn't get paid to play rugby either, it wasn't his job. Plus he retired from rugby, and hasn't been rewarded with any gong and now lives on a pension. Of course I don't know the value of his assets, but if you see his home in Cardiff (as shown on a recent BBC documentary), I suspect he didn't really earn any wealth out of rugby.

So I wholly reject your statement inferring double standards on my part.

whocares wrote:Mourad asked the LNR if Toulon could remove the number 10 jersey from their starting XV... in honour of JW. Now that's a bit extreme.

Bit risky going into a game without a first five?

fa0019 wrote:Didn't bath used to play without a number 13.... the fullback was always no. 16

Got to love the old days. ABC, whatever you wanted went as long as it was tradition.

Sorry... been away working, and only now getting to look at the replies... Started at the top and working down, which is why I also mentioned the Bath 13 shirt... Sorry hadn't got to this reply at that point.

fa0019 wrote:troll

Honours are meant to reward REAL achievement.

Tell me whats the achievement in doing the above as a job? Sorry to be on my high horse but if its to put food on their families table then well, start handing them out to everyone else.

A family members mentor for instance has just retired, she was a doctor. I've met her once or twice. Working class northern lass, built herself up from nothing. Put herself through medical school and has just retired with near 40 years at the top of her game. Didn't get an honour even though she was apparently in the top 3% of all consultant doctors position wise, was well published and had international recognition in her field. They are the real people who make a difference in the world.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that people with no ambition, no drive to better themselves nor their family should be honoured for simply putting food on the table for themselves compared to people like this lady?

If its the best they can be fine, if they overcame unimaginable difficulties to do their job, fine... I applaude them for not taking the easy route and simply picking up their cheque on a thursday morning..... but a national honour, please.

We're not talking about some humble charity worker who spends every spare minute and 1000s of pounds of their own money each year on disadvantaged kids etc.

The honours system is a crock. A high proportion goes out to either populist people in the media with debatable positive service to the country, jobsworth civil servants and mates of politicans trying to buy favour.

 
... and England "hero's" (hate using that term for a sportsman, especially in today's clime, when you see what the forces go through...)...
 
Well Said..   exactly the point I was making. Only my beef is more against those doing their job for £10k+ per week, rather than those doing it for £100 or so per week...

Scratch wrote:

fa0019 wrote:troll

Honours are meant to reward REAL achievement.

Tell me whats the achievement in doing the above as a job? Sorry to be on my high horse but if its to put food on their families table then well, start handing them out to everyone else.

A family members mentor for instance has just retired, she was a doctor. I've met her once or twice. Working class northern lass, built herself up from nothing. Put herself through medical school and has just retired with near 40 years at the top of her game. Didn't get an honour even though she was apparently in the top 3% of all consultant doctors position wise, was well published and had international recognition in her field. They are the real people who make a difference in the world.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that people with no ambition, no drive to better themselves nor their family should be honoured for simply putting food on the table for themselves compared to people like this lady?

If its the best they can be fine, if they overcame unimaginable difficulties to do their job, fine... I applaude them for not taking the easy route and simply picking up their cheque on a thursday morning..... but a national honour, please.

We're not talking about some humble charity worker who spends every spare minute and 1000s of pounds of their own money each year on disadvantaged kids etc.

The honours system is a crock. A high proportion goes out to either populist people in the media with debatable positive service to the country, jobsworth civil servants and mates of politicans trying to buy favour.

what miserable, cynical rubbish

you use the stereotypical argument about lollipop ladies or cleaners which reveals you actually know deck all about the honors system.

Honours are for dedication and if that is to a small job and they make a big impact on those around them to the extent they receive an honor then what reward for a lifetime of cleaning toilets.

Get back to your bog brush and try harder

Perhaps if he scrubs hard enough, he will receive an honour? Or is it licking windows?

Unbelievable, the day has come when I agree with you...

Worry not about Fa, he's down on life, cynicism is a crushing weight on his shoulders.

fa0019 wrote:can you tell me why Gary Mabbutt got an MBE?

Perhaps somebody nominated him? It really isn't that difficult to understand.

His award was for services to sport. Just because what he does isn't high profile, it doesn't mean it isn't important. He suffers from type 1 diabetes and has become a role model for children with the condition, raising large sums of money for research into the disease and tirelessly touring schools and colleges to promote awareness of diabetes and its causes.

Jimpy wrote:

fa0019 wrote:can you tell me why Gary Mabbutt got an MBE?

Perhaps somebody nominated him? It really isn't that difficult to understand.

His award was for services to sport. Just because what he does isn't high profile, it doesn't mean it isn't important. He suffers from type 1 diabetes and has become a role model for children with the condition, raising large sums of money for research into the disease and tirelessly touring schools and colleges to promote awareness of diabetes and its causes.

What he has done since getting his honour and what he was nominated for are two different things. His citation was services to SPORT. Nothing to do with charity work etc.

He was a decent professional, good enough to get a few England caps but was  that was it. There were dozens of better professionals, higher profile players etc. It would be like giving an honour to Andy Goode.

Why didn't Terry Butcher, 3 world cups and 80 odd caps get an award? Why didn't Kenny Samson, Mark Wright or Des Walker? They were all better players, had more caps, went to more high profile tournaments

The reason he got the award was 2 things.

A) Sympathy... he got elbowed in the face by John Fashanu which fractured his cheekbone or something just before. Took a bit out the game because of it and all of a sudden he got an MBE.
B) Simply being average for long enough.

Its the same for civil servants. Get to 50 and to sweeten the impending redundancy for being middle of the road, too expensive compared to a 30yr old who can do the job better, cheaper and with more drive they hand them a leaving honour for things such as writing a paper on the productivity of HB pencil vs. the 2B for local authority distribution. Slight exaggertation? Well a family member of mine got one in the near exact circumstances. Proud of them but lets be honest they didn't do it for queen and country. They joined the public sector because they couldn't think of anything else to do by their own admission, couldn't make it as a lawyer, doctor etc so it was simply a natural path. They were no way pioneers but stayed in the job long enough... its their equivalent of the gold watch.

fa0019 wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

fa0019 wrote:can you tell me why Gary Mabbutt got an MBE?

Perhaps somebody nominated him? It really isn't that difficult to understand.

His award was for services to sport. Just because what he does isn't high profile, it doesn't mean it isn't important. He suffers from type 1 diabetes and has become a role model for children with the condition, raising large sums of money for research into the disease and tirelessly touring schools and colleges to promote awareness of diabetes and its causes.

What he has done since getting his honour and what he was nominated for are two different things. His citation was services to SPORT. Nothing to do with charity work etc.

He was a decent professional, good enough to get a few England caps but was  that was it. There were dozens of better professionals, higher profile players etc. It would be like giving an honour to Andy Goode.

Why didn't Terry Butcher, 3 world cups and 80 odd caps get an award? Why didn't Kenny Samson, Mark Wright or Des Walker? They were all better players, had more caps, went to more high profile tournaments

The reason he got the award was 2 things.

A) Sympathy... he got elbowed in the face by John Fashanu which fractured his cheekbone or something just before. Took a bit out the game because of it and all of a sudden he got an MBE.
B) Simply being average for long enough.

Its the same for civil servants. Get to 50 and to sweeten the impending redundancy for being middle of the road, too expensive compared to a 30yr old who can do the job better, cheaper and with more drive they hand them a leaving honour for things such as writing a paper on the productivity of HB pencil vs. the 2B for local authority distribution. Slight exaggertation? Well a family member of mine got one in the near exact circumstances. Proud of them but lets be honest they didn't do it for queen and country. They joined the public sector because they couldn't think of anything else to do by their own admission, couldn't make it as a lawyer, doctor etc so it was simply a natural path. They were no way pioneers but stayed in the job long enough... its their equivalent of the gold watch.

 
I've sussed it!
 
You're simply bitter and jealous that all these people have received honours and yet for all your years of service to cynicism and on the pitch thuggery, you've been overlooked.
 
I got a BEM for my military service in the Balkans. I didn't do anything special, just my job, I volunteered to join the forces after all. Did I not deserve it? Every single person working in this country in some way contributes to it. Just because you don't think they deserve an award is irrelevant.

Jimpy wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

fa0019 wrote:can you tell me why Gary Mabbutt got an MBE?

Perhaps somebody nominated him? It really isn't that difficult to understand.

His award was for services to sport. Just because what he does isn't high profile, it doesn't mean it isn't important. He suffers from type 1 diabetes and has become a role model for children with the condition, raising large sums of money for research into the disease and tirelessly touring schools and colleges to promote awareness of diabetes and its causes.

What he has done since getting his honour and what he was nominated for are two different things. His citation was services to SPORT. Nothing to do with charity work etc.

He was a decent professional, good enough to get a few England caps but was  that was it. There were dozens of better professionals, higher profile players etc. It would be like giving an honour to Andy Goode.

Why didn't Terry Butcher, 3 world cups and 80 odd caps get an award? Why didn't Kenny Samson, Mark Wright or Des Walker? They were all better players, had more caps, went to more high profile tournaments

The reason he got the award was 2 things.

A) Sympathy... he got elbowed in the face by John Fashanu which fractured his cheekbone or something just before. Took a bit out the game because of it and all of a sudden he got an MBE.
B) Simply being average for long enough.

Its the same for civil servants. Get to 50 and to sweeten the impending redundancy for being middle of the road, too expensive compared to a 30yr old who can do the job better, cheaper and with more drive they hand them a leaving honour for things such as writing a paper on the productivity of HB pencil vs. the 2B for local authority distribution. Slight exaggertation? Well a family member of mine got one in the near exact circumstances. Proud of them but lets be honest they didn't do it for queen and country. They joined the public sector because they couldn't think of anything else to do by their own admission, couldn't make it as a lawyer, doctor etc so it was simply a natural path. They were no way pioneers but stayed in the job long enough... its their equivalent of the gold watch.

 
I've sussed it!
 
You're simply bitter and jealous that all these people have received honours and yet for all your years of service to cynicism and on the pitch thuggery, you've been overlooked.

I got a BEM for my military service in the Balkans. I didn't do anything special, just my job, I volunteered to join the forces after all. Did I not deserve it? Every single person working in this country in some way contributes to it. Just because you don't think they deserve it is irrelevant.

dude, I'm in my early 30s, hardly would say I'm overlooked. I don't live in UK anyhow, chose to emigrate and live in a great country. If someone does great service for their country then sure... but how many nurses get the award? These girls are true hero's, they get paid terribly and do jobs no one wants to do and save lives... yet only the top 1 or 2 will ever get an award. What they do is what I call public service. I'd be very happy to hand out more awards to frontline Nurses, Doctor etc and servicemen not just officers (in forces). All of those guys earn their daily bread, many times over. Not pencil pushers doing mediocre irrelevent work for years and years and years.

You served, volunteered etc. I appluad you.

What I'm saying is that civil service is not the forces. Minus the foreign office and a few additional departments etc, the civil service can hardly be called public service for the greater good. Its not charity work, its not heroism, its a job. Its like selling cars, making pencils. Its done solely for money. I don't know one person who joined the civil service for because they believed in public service.....what they do is nothing more than what some banker does by earning loads of money and paying shed loads in tax.

Should we award someone like that too? Someone who earns 500k a year for say 20 years will literally put 5MM GBP into the country during that time. They will do so much more than these people. They generate income for the government to spend on families who can't feed themselves, put hundreds of kids through school... by their taxes.
They get bashed a lot, often by people accepting the state handouts... but in reality those people (indirectly I acknowledge) do more for the country then most and without these evil high earning people in the country it would be a far lesser place.

I've always believed in merit. In South Africa, merit is a rarely used word now. Start awarding those that don't deserve, start ignoring those who really do deserve and we lose the very essence of what awards such as these were created for.

The word 'Hero' is hugely overused and is a misnomer in most cases, including nurses.

Its all very well saying they do jobs that no-one wants to do for little money, but i don't believe anyone holds a gun to their heads and makes them apply for the job. They go into it knowing what the pay and conditions are like.

And so do members of the armed forces. To call them all heroes is to dilute the meaning of the word. Individuals who carry out acts of bravery 'above and beyond that normally expected of their job or rank' are heroes, and usually decorated or honoured for it.

Nonetheless, perhaps if all the people who truly deserve awards were actually nominated for them, then they might actually get them. Until then, the awards will just have to go to lolly pop ladies and loo attendants who somebody must think is making a difference to society, without raping it. I don't think most people begrudge that fact that a certain percentage of the population earn high salaries, and that they pay their taxes - but the truth is that in certain professions it is now widely recognised that those huge salaries are immoral in the face of the economic climate and as certain high profile cases have shown recently, the more some people eran, they more they try to hide from the tax man.

On the lettering on shirts, Leicester players have the letter corresponding to their shirt number just above the club badge.
This is something I've only noticed this season.

Jimpy wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

fa0019 wrote:can you tell me why Gary Mabbutt got an MBE?

Perhaps somebody nominated him? It really isn't that difficult to understand.

His award was for services to sport. Just because what he does isn't high profile, it doesn't mean it isn't important. He suffers from type 1 diabetes and has become a role model for children with the condition, raising large sums of money for research into the disease and tirelessly touring schools and colleges to promote awareness of diabetes and its causes.

What he has done since getting his honour and what he was nominated for are two different things. His citation was services to SPORT. Nothing to do with charity work etc.

He was a decent professional, good enough to get a few England caps but was  that was it. There were dozens of better professionals, higher profile players etc. It would be like giving an honour to Andy Goode.

Why didn't Terry Butcher, 3 world cups and 80 odd caps get an award? Why didn't Kenny Samson, Mark Wright or Des Walker? They were all better players, had more caps, went to more high profile tournaments

The reason he got the award was 2 things.

A) Sympathy... he got elbowed in the face by John Fashanu which fractured his cheekbone or something just before. Took a bit out the game because of it and all of a sudden he got an MBE.
B) Simply being average for long enough.

Its the same for civil servants. Get to 50 and to sweeten the impending redundancy for being middle of the road, too expensive compared to a 30yr old who can do the job better, cheaper and with more drive they hand them a leaving honour for things such as writing a paper on the productivity of HB pencil vs. the 2B for local authority distribution. Slight exaggertation? Well a family member of mine got one in the near exact circumstances. Proud of them but lets be honest they didn't do it for queen and country. They joined the public sector because they couldn't think of anything else to do by their own admission, couldn't make it as a lawyer, doctor etc so it was simply a natural path. They were no way pioneers but stayed in the job long enough... its their equivalent of the gold watch.

 
I've sussed it!
 
You're simply bitter and jealous that all these people have received honours and yet for all your years of service to cynicism and on the pitch thuggery, you've been overlooked.
 
I got a BEM for my military service in the Balkans. I didn't do anything special, just my job, I volunteered to join the forces after all. Did I not deserve it? Every single person working in this country in some way contributes to it. Just because you don't think they deserve an award is irrelevant.

Lies. Glorious Empire.

This site appears to be suffering from sever boredom!

Anyway, well played JW. What a great ambassador for sport, and what a model professional on and off the pitch.

He will certainly get a standing ovation when he leaves the pitch on Saturday. What a legend.

quinsforever wrote:This site appears to be suffering from sever boredom!

Anyway, well played JW. What a great ambassador for sport, and what a model professional on and off the pitch.

He will certainly get a standing ovation when he leaves the pitch on Saturday. What a legend.

And, no doubt, a nomination for an honour, much to the chagrin of some.

His faux humility is not kidding anyone, he'll be queuing up for his Knighthood and cash in on his celebrity. Guarantee we will see him on Celebrity Master Dancer within weeks.

You dont like Jonny Wilkinson much scratch?

Au contraire, i enjoyed his career

Though i do find his humility vomit inducing sometimes, he has no ego whatsoever on the surface yet one can only speculate on the narcissism that must have driven him all these years.

no ego yet inherently internally narcissistic? Interesting Scratch. Is that because you don't believe that sort of elite sportsman can exist?

I am sceptical but don't dismiss it entirely. Elite sportsmen often do possess mammoth egos but the fact is he has never screwed up after 13 years in the limelight, if there is no narcissism he must be very very tightly wired. Whatever he is one of the few sportsmen who i think has fulfilled his potential and constantly met his own high standards. A fascinating character and a student of psychology he is a fascinating study

I think the last thing you'll see JW on will be some reality tv show. Simply not the sort if person he is and he doesn't need the cash now does he.

Right foot drop goal sailing over 40metres... Class never dies.

Scratch wrote:I am sceptical but don't dismiss it entirely. Elite sportsmen often do possess mammoth egos but the fact is he has never screwed up after 13 years in the limelight, if there is no narcissism he must be very very tightly wired. Whatever he is one of the few sportsmen who i think has fulfilled his potential and constantly met his own high standards. A fascinating character and a student of psychology he is a fascinating study

Try reading his autobiography. There's no hint of narcissism just a guy who is utterly obssessive about being the best. It comes across more like a mental illness (a very specific form of OCD, or perhaps the shallow end of the autistic spectrum) than any kind of ego. There's also the point that all of the people who've played or worked with him over the years describe him in exactly the same terms.

If it's all surface, then he's not only one of the great rugby players but should be in line for a lifetime achievement Oscar

Jeez, boys, let's keep knocking Jonny, shall we?

It taks a very strong ego to give someone the drive to work to get to the top of their profession or to achieve a level of consistently high performance which satisfies the person.  This is life and not restricted to sport.  This doesn't mean the ego requires the person to be strutting his/her stuff in front of any audience they can find.  Nor does it imply a personality flaw or mental impairment to be so driven.  

I would suppose for most high achievers the self-gratification of the achievement is sufficient.  Outside adulation can be almost irrelevent.  For me, Jonny is simply in that group of people who is driven to get every aspect of his profession right:  In his case, convert every kick for points, connect every pass, be in the right place on the pitch, execute every tackle, make the right decision, and simply do his part for the overall team victory.  Success doesn't happen by accident.  And success is measured by team not the individual.  There are people in every profession who are similar.

At work I drill with the A&E teams over and over to ensure everything is done right, all the way down ot the last detail.  Very similar to the army med triange teams.  I also practise certain medical procedures regularly to ensure they are done perfectly.  This is my job and I want/need to be damn good.  The gratification is seeeing someone walk out perfectly, go back to sport, live their lives normally.  I don't think I am unique in any way.  There are people in all walks of life who are no different.  

I believe this is the same thing which powers most of our professional athletes.  I have to believe (hope?) it is a smallish minority for whom the adluation is the driver or critical to their self-satisfaction.

So you are comparing yourself to JW Dr Grey?!! Surprised you aren't a surgeon.

Scratch wrote:So you are comparing yourself to JW Dr Grey?!! Surprised you aren't a surgeon.

Yes, I am: We drink our beer the samer way.
After that, methinks things might be a little different...........